View Full Version : RAAF Looses two of its Tankers
herkman
18th Jun 2008, 03:44
Announcd today that two of the KC30B tankers will be converted to VIP transports.
Aircraft are to be converted to VIP interior by Qantas at cost of $25M.
Now which is more important I ask, refueling aircraft or Polies.
Regards
Col
Flyingblind
18th Jun 2008, 03:46
Thought the RAAF held 2 or 3 options to cover such an event?
Could be wrong though.
BEagle
18th Jun 2008, 04:01
As they're multi-role aircraft, a bit of corgi-carrying will be a minor secondary role for them.
Anyway, at least you'll have a fitting aircraft to fly HM around in, the next time she comes to Oz....
Urshtnme
18th Jun 2008, 04:33
Well if KRudd gets his way, we'll have no Defence aircraft to refuel.
i wonder if this may mean further MRTTs for the RAAF?
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23881629-662,00.html
VIP RAAF fleet upgrade follows tragedy
Ian McPhedran
June 18, 2008 12:00am
THE RAAF will convert two of its five new Airbus A-330 tanker planes to VIP aircraft.
The move follows the crash of a Garuda jet in Indonesia last year, in which two Australian officials, two police officers and a journalist died.
They were forced on to the flight because the RAAF VIP aircraft carrying then foreign affairs minister Alexander Downer was too small.
The A-330, twin-engine, long-range jets will receive a VIP makeover, allowing the Prime Minister and senior ministers to travel with staff, officials and the media.
The Howard government reduced the VIP fleet, forcing the media to make its own way on overseas visits.
But after the Garuda tragedy, media companies pushed for bigger aircraft so staff could fly with the Prime Minister.
Industry sources put the cost of converting the planes at about $25 million an aircraft.
This would include installing a bedroom, office and bathroom suite, a first-class cabin for senior staff and a business class cabin for the media.
The five Airbus aircraft are being bought under a $1.8 billion contract that includes Qantas maintenance support.
The first plane arrived in Brisbane last week.
The VIP jets will also be used by the Governor-General and visiting dignitaries.
Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston told a Senate committee this month that new VIP aircraft made "a lot of sense . . . after the tragedy that befell us as a nation last year".
Like This - Do That
18th Jun 2008, 06:08
Anyway, at least you'll have a fitting aircraft to fly HM around in, the next time she comes to Oz....
Beags these class-hating Ruddinistas won't want HM to visit until after they've installed one of their party hack cronies into Yarralumla, if ever again.
I hope like heck that there ARE options. The fleet ordered was small as it was; losing (note 1 'o' herkman) 40% of the fleet in one swoop IOT placate the jackals of the press is an outrage.
"The Howard government reduced the VIP fleet, forcing the media to make its own way on overseas visits." Didn't the last government change 34 SQN from 5 x 900Bs to the current 2 x BBJs and 3 x 604s? Isn't that an increase?
BTW sorry for lashing out herkman - read the headline and my blood started boiling, you got in the way.
Reading this news, I have a certain sense of deja vu. An Australian Labour government stripping defence assets to the bone (whilst coincidentally upping the Perksville Express for themselves and their cronies) to placate an unplacatable northern neighbour.
Angus, I'm sure you tried to point out the folly of this crazy move, just as I'm sure it got you nowhere. Just what the ADF needs... more f***ing VIP transports. Aren't there enough seats in the standard combi tanker configuration for the Party minions and press hacks?
Point0Five
18th Jun 2008, 12:05
The Howard government reduced the VIP fleet, forcing the media to make its own way on overseas visits.
Not really true. They replaced 5 Falcons and 2 707s with 2 BBJs and 3 Challengers... and also bought 5 MRTTs, to replace the remaining 3 707s.
Old Fella
18th Jun 2008, 13:02
Sorry Point0Five, the B707's were never part of the VIP fleet. They were in fact only very occasionally used in the VIP role, having the bulk of their tasking in support of the three arms of the forces and four were made able to carry out air to air refuelling. People may be forgiven for thinking they were VIP aircraft, especially with the rhetoric from Bob Hawke prior to him winning government. He claimed he would sell the initial two if he won the election, however he kept them and bought five more (including one for spares).
I sincerely hope the Rudd led government is tossed out after one term, we can't afford them for any longer than that.
Point0Five
18th Jun 2008, 13:07
Was the 707 ever equiped with a VIP rig? What they were bought for isn't really relevant. They weren't bought as refuellers either. Current capability, and the replacement thereof is the issue.
the RAAF VIP aircraft carrying then foreign affairs minister Alexander Downer was too small.
Blimey, how big are Oz politicians?
Trojan1981
18th Jun 2008, 14:12
I am sure the A/C will be used in either role as required. I don't know if we have ever used tankers operationally to defend Australia anyway.
Only the odd deployment to somethingistan to support someone elses war...perhaps thats part of the reason why we now have a Rudd government.
'Insert ducking smiley here'
Trojan, take a look at a map of Northern Australia and after seeing the distances involved, maybe you'll reconsider your rather dismissive observation.
BEagle
18th Jun 2008, 17:04
Suitable names for the 2 Tanker/VIP jets?
Scott and Sharlene?
Wiley
18th Jun 2008, 17:36
Could this just be a backhanded way of saving the expense of two tanker fit outs? I'm reminded of the Navy's FFGs. The ship's ASW system was built around having ASW helos on board, which (for reasons that have been covered in depth here on other threads), never quite eventuated... So they stuck a ** utility Kiowa on the helideck as each new ship steamed in through Sydney Heads, reckoning (quite correctly) that the media and the great Australian unwashed wouldn't know the difference.
Trojan1981
19th Jun 2008, 00:13
Trojan, take a look at a map of Northern Australia and after seeing the distances involved, maybe you'll reconsider your rather dismissive observation.
I have flown over much of it in both RAAF and civil A/C over the years. I know we need tankers and we'll still have them. I don't think this is much of an issue. At least the press and other government staff will be much safer flying on an RAAF A/C (although they could probably get the same result chartering Aus-reg civil A/C).
I can think of many other areas where defence money is wasted on pointless ventures and unnecessary capabilities.
Flyingblind
19th Jun 2008, 00:13
Methinks Kath & Kim might be more appropriate names.
:}
Old Fella
19th Jun 2008, 06:19
PointOFive. Yes the B707 has been fitted out for specific VIP tasks, temporarily, the fit then being removed and one class economy style seating reinstalled. You stated that two B707's, as part of the VIP fleet, had been replaced. My response was intended to point out that the B707 was NEVER PART OF 34 SQN VIP FLEET. They were initially operated as part of 37 Squadron (33 Flight) and later by 33 Squadron. I may be being pedantic, however the fact remains they were never on strength with 34 Squadron. By the way, the VIP fitout came with the aircraft from Qantas, they having put it in place on previous occasions when chartered by the Australian government for VIP tasks.
Turkeyslapper
19th Jun 2008, 10:52
"The ship's ASW system was built around having ASW helos on board, which (for reasons that have been covered in depth here on other threads), never quite eventuated... "
What is the Seahawk then??
Turkeyslapper, I think Wiley may have been referring to the Seasprite, but I could be wrong.
Or was the FFG's helicopter-that-never-was an earlier defence procurement disaster?