Greedy helicopter pilots........

[griffothefog]

Having spent the last 8 years on and off in the desert, I think I am a bit out of touch. This morning on Sky news (course in Italy) I heard Shell petrol tanker drivers have just turned down a pay raise to 41,500 GBP for next year and will continue their disruption of normal sevices :{

Just a passing thought for you greedy under qualified police/hems guys and doll's who launch of daily/nightly into the murk to save lives.... Don't take any **** off management from now on, there IS an alternative..:E

You can still be bored ****less for most of the day WITHOUT having to put your arse on the line....APPLY FOR YOUR HGV LICENCE TODAY and I guarantee a no hassle lifestyle with none of the associated CIA fees to empty your wallet and best of all no medical's and NO LPC's :ok:

[kneedwondean]

To be fair when I first heard how much they got paid I was shocked. Damn it, scrapping along teaching people to fly heli's(and paying god knows how much for the training) and just about getting enough money to gether to pay my bills. All I should of done was pay £2000 and got my HGV licence!! In fact I have a student who is a HGV driver and he is happily capable of paying for flying heli's. :mad:

[bladeslapper]

First it must be said that lorry drivers do need a medical from time to time but more of the walk and talk type.

However what this thread shows is that you are quite smart to get a job as an HGV driver,but it does beg the question of where that leaves helicopter pilots !! :eek:

[ShyTorque]

Yes, a few years ago, as the chief pilot of a Police ASU, I had a conversation with our fuel delivery driver. It had taken me twenty years to get qualified to do my job. When he said how much he was earning I felt like giving up there and then.

To cap it all, a new provider took over the contract not long afterwards and wanted us to stay on. Their incentive was to offer a five grand a year pay cut.

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Gentlemen,

Believe me YOU DO NOT WANT to drive any HGV or LGV for a living, they can only perambulate along at 56mph, are subject to tight rules of the now smart card tachograph system, can be held up for hours at VOSA /DHSS/Police road side checks(still classed as driving time) the driver is responsible for the loaded weight of each axle and wheel loading(that is able to be checked by the VOSA people even whilst the HGV/LGV is moving along the roads, the driver needs to have the patience of a Saint to put up with all the drivers who cut in front of them at the last min on any roads( everyone seems to think these big rigs can stop like a small car) they burn around 1 Gallon of Derv/Diesel every 6 to 9 miles, they need to drive into towns where road sign sprout from every corner where Wallys park cars and Vans just where the HGV/LGV needs to swing in order to get round said corner the list is endless.:ugh:
If you want a few days of frustration and boiling tempers and rude and abusive language( and thats just from your boss) just contact me I will arrange for you to be a pax in one of the very latest £100k rigs, ... I think that will be enough time to explain to you why you should stay being a Chopper Jockey:ooh:
The only Hgv driving that still looks of any interest is across the desert's or the Ice Road out of Yellowknife,.. now that would ring my bell!!

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb/2:D

[Jarvy]

These tanker drivers are just the tip of the iceberg. I'm a HGV driver of many years who at the moment lives at the bottom of the iceberg on £7.50 per hour, 12 hour shifts day and night, weekends and bank holidays all the same hourly rate.
Let me fly helicopters any day.
Jarvy

[Troglodita]

Griffo,

Their main gripe seems to be that they were dumped by Shell and are now substantially worse off than their BP colleagues (Still Direct Employees of BP) working from the same Depot.

As 212 Man pointed out recently in a reply from Head Hunter Land to the West African Forum



Quote:
still relying heavily on "Shellies" with more Naira allowances than a local politician to buy their high priced goods rather than poor Bristow Folk
Having been on both sides of the fence, I can appreciate that commonly held misconception, however the actual fact is that all Shell expatriate staff get an element of their salary in local currency and an element in Euros, wherever they are based. It is not a cash in hand per-diem like the BHL system, that is considered over an above your salary.

Granted, they still get paid more though!

We have always been and still are at the bottom of the pile on the "Oil Patch" when it comes to salaries. I am not (yet) jealous of Tanker Drivers but admit to a certain amount of envy and frustration when I see Oil Patch Contractor Storemen, Mechanics, Electricians, Construction Guys, Scaffolders etc. etc. sitting in Business Class going home to spend salaries at least double that of the average Twin IFR Helicopter Pilot.

Where do we go wrong?

Are we our own worst enemies?

See Unpaid Invoices thread for a possible reason - we are frightened to offend even someone who doesn't pay us!

[LeakyLucy]

I guess it must be the army of truck drivers who are willing to work for free?:rolleyes:

[SASless]

As to being a HGV driver.....been there and done that and still have a tee-shirt to prove it!

I took the leap and actually bought one of the things as well. I had always said I would form that special bond between Man, Machine, and the Open Highway before I would fly in the Gulf of Mexico.

We (speaking as an over the road trucker) have the same problems as you do in the UK except for the narrow roads. We have narrow roads but they seem to be in the Northeast part of the country.

I really enjoyed the trucking life and made a decent living at it until the fuel prices took their big leap back in the late '90's. It was good fun to haul construction equipment....Bulldozers, Rock Trucks, Track Hoes and mining machines.

I claimed I had a job where I transported Hoes from one Cat House to another.

I gave it up when I was offered a Day Rate contract in Nigeria which payed me what my truck grossed.....meaning there was no comparison in take home pay.

When I flew in Alaska....the Bull Cook (maid who makes your bed and cleans up the room) made one dollar a month than I did as a helicopter pilot.

The wages for helicopter pilots in the US were horribly low until the Air Log and PHI pilots unionized.....and later the union movement hit the EMS market when Air Methods pilots did the same.

[helimutt]

The big companies often contract out for staff. BP did in the late 80's with their sea staff. They were all once BP employees, pension schemes, shares, bonuses etc then they were all made redundant. Next day, they were offered their old jobs back on contracted offshore salaries, still paid for by BP but via bermuda/Isle of Man manning agencies etc so that BP didnt have to pay national insurance etc. BP/Shell/Esso/Chevron all did this I believe. The Agencies were surprised when not everyone took up the offer of their old jobs back. The salaries started downhill after that. Captains of an oil tanker were paid very well in relation to shore based jobs pre 1990's. Now, the only incentive is the tax free status, but they're only paid a little over £60k/yr to master a 300,000t plus tanker full of crude!!! They should be on 6 figures+ really.
Who reading this, would relish taking 2 million barrels of crude oil from Nigeria to the west coast US via Cape Horn, mid winter, and have that sort of responsibility in US waters these days for £60k? No thank you.

Only way I see it, being a helicopter pilot means we get paid for something we enjoy doing in the majority of cases, not always paid as much as we would like but I bet everyone would like more. Oh, and our office has a pretty good view.
Unions can be useful when it comes to pay reviews. To get more money, everyone has to stand together and hold out for decent pay, or just be happy with what you get.

[206Fan]

Id say alot of lads here were HGV drivers in their time.. My dad was one for years, done the continent for years, germany, france, spain, africa, the UK hauling mussels most of the time, smelly job it was as i was on alot of trips with him to UK and france mainly.. Dad also took the plunge and bought a rig back in the 80s and another rig in the late 90s but it got to a stage were dad had enough of it and sold the rigs.. Thou i started out shunting the 40 footers in the yards at 17 for 2 years anyway, actually loved shunting the trailers about.. I wanted to get the HGV aswel but dad wouldn't let me, didn't want me going through the same crap he did over the years so im doing my PPL H in july and see what happens for me..

[Sailor Vee]

If you are ‘worried’ about the truckers :{, try 15 years ago, when having suffered an MGB chip warning, we had to shut down and await eng assistance. (A long wait as we knew that all the aircraft were out and we would wait until one and a crew were available. :rolleyes:)

Speaking to the crane driver, (who was the HLO as a ‘secondary’ duty), I learnt that he was earning more than I was, (as an SFO with that company), BUT, he was also earning more than my Captain!

His ‘roster’ was 2 weeks on and 3 weeks off, he lived in France and his life was ‘rosy’!

But forget the grass is always greener crap, I suspect that he was binned to save costs when oil prices nose-dived, or at least replaced by someone cheaper, I have moved on and still have a job!

[Heliringer]

Here in Australia things are looking up for Helicopter pilots but I'm told that Cleaners on mine sites are earning $85,000 per year. That is more than most of the pilot jobs i've ever seen.
Still I'd rather be flying or sitting around than cleaning toilets.

[Heli-Ice]

Here's a thought...

Helicopter pilots are the lorry drivers in the air and what do you expect???

Look at the Spanish and the French lorry drivers these days, they at least fight for their worth and maybe, at the time helo drivers do the same, pay may scale up :confused:

Can we learn something from them?

[Pappa Smurf]

Another way to look at it-----------how many hours a week are you airborne,loading etc.
The truckies usually look through red eyes for 60-80 hours a week.
Son gave up choppers and bought a delivery ute.More than doubled his wages but puts in 50-60 hours a week in city traffic.And me ,i get 120g a year driving a dozer but do twice as many hours as a pilot is allowed

[diginagain]

If you are ‘worried’ about the truckers , try 15 years ago, when having suffered an MGB chip warning, we had to shut down and await eng assistance. (A long wait as we knew that all the aircraft were out and we would wait until one and a crew were available. )

Speaking to the crane driver, (who was the HLO as a ‘secondary’ duty), I learnt that he was earning more than I was, (as an SFO with that company), BUT, he was also earning more than my Captain!

His ‘roster’ was 2 weeks on and 3 weeks off, he lived in France and his life was ‘rosy’!

But forget the grass is always greener crap, I suspect that he was binned to save costs when oil prices nose-dived, or at least replaced by someone cheaper, I have moved on and still have a job!

Had a quick chat with my mate the crane driving HLO. His trade, just as many out here is in such demand that he's getting £85K plus healthcare and company pension. Okay, he has to be at work for half the year, but compared to his old job before he went offshore (Army Catering Corps cook) he's not complaining.

Before I started offshore I did a couple of thousand hours driving Lynx, after getting all of my HGV tickets. I don't do that flying stuff anymore, as earning a pittance for driving a bus in a rubber bag didn't appeal.

As long as there are misty-eyed teenagers who think that being a helicopter pilot is glamourous, there will always be supply to meet a limited demand. The inverse applies offshore - few people want to work out here, driving up pay and incentives. Eight years ago an old colleague of mine did a stopover at the rig I was on. He was earning two thirds of what I was getting as a Radio Operator, my trade at the time, for driving a '76.

Stay safe.

[griffothefog]

The reason I started this thread was simple... I was gobsmacked that someone with so few qualifications (NOT EXPERIENCE) could earn so much whether contracted out or working for the big boys, but I guess those guy's are not that different from me. I wandered into this gig 31 years ago as a baggage handler, with bugger all to show from my dad's coin wasted on 5 years of private boarding and through bloody minded determination and lots of cramming got to where I find myself today. Trouble is I realised ages ago that I'm actually pretty thick and not capable of changing direction and as I'm sure a lot of us do, accept the status quo and keep the head down :(
Most of us are not as clever as we think, we're just very street wise....Must get that HGV home study course out :E

[topendtorque]

vfrpilot, summed it up quite neatrly, except for the tourist season hazard of grey nomads. ugh.

One mob of touros spoilt the day of a truckie, by driving right under the front of his fully loaded shell road train. that's about 120,000 litres, without his own fuel.

Usual truck size hereabouts is around the 120 to 150 tonne fully loaded, thier speed limit is 100 klicks, and they do it easy, with 800 ponies up front.

nowadays they (and fitters and welders) get paid better thanks to stiff competition from the rseources boom. One bloke i know drives twelve hour shifts, four weeks on two off, in some god forsaken mine in West Oz. He operates a double prime mover rig, with eight cargo trailers, three triple axles on each trailer, at neck break speed, 35 klicks fully loaded. He recently nearly got skittled when the computerised fuel flows on the second donk dropped below par and the lead prime mover tried to take the strain. it was on the way up wheel standing, he just stopped it.

one mate of mine reckons when you are too old and useless to be a head stockman, you either cook or drive trucks, an' if you're too dirty to cook----.

another mate reckoned to me very seriously one day that ,"to be a truck driver, you have to be marginally less intelligent than a very average indiginous."

Of course I just had to see just what he was talking about, no more.

[Overdrive]

Most of us are not as clever as we think, we're just very street wise....


Griffo, I know just what you're saying... however I think the quote above should actually be reversed: more brains than wisdom applies to many I think!


The HGV thing. I did a short spell in the 80's. Truckers then were perceived as oily diesel rags, mostly not well treated. Things have improved in many ways, conditions, trucks, pay (for some). I've kept my licence valid. I did a few nights to help out a mate a couple of years back, and for the old times sake novelty, when I had some spare time. I didn't enjoy it anything like I imagined. It's no picnic believe me. Like in flying, it's a small proportion that step straight into the best jobs.

Obviously some drivers are earning the money discussed, and working realistic hours for it, but it's likely the transport version of the plumbing myth (something else from my past!). Everyone's heard of them, 1500 quid a week, can't keep up with the work, won't even talk to you for less than fifty notes etc. I actually know people who earn this some of their weeks... the weeks when they're on call rotas, springing out of bed in the middle of the night on response, then working the normal full day, and weekend work. Plus, just lately, it's starting to look awfully quiet ahead...

There are always some in any industry that are getting the cream. There's usually nothing to stop anyone going after it, if they feel they can do it. Today though, I don't think many will get an easy ride that lasts a whole career's length of time. Those running the show are trying to pressure it all down wherever possible. To those who would resent the truckers' earnings in a personal sense, I'd say look on their protests here and abroad more generally, as an anti to the screwing many people are getting, and may get down the line.

[Fly_For_Fun]

I almost feel sorry for truck drivers now!

Apart from the ignorant tw@ts that carve up the poor old car drivers, are too busy making tea on the move and piling into unsuspecting motorists and clog up the roads bringing the country to a virtual stop.

Nothing to do with the thread really, but I do feel a bit better.