Unpaid Invoices

[flyboy23454]

Hi all,

I am new to the aviation world and was wondering what would be the point when you would decline work as a self employed pilot due to unpaid invoices?

All comments gratefully received

Cheers!

[paco]

Not sure what you mean - have you worked for someone then not been paid? My trick is to publish a list of long-unpaid invoices on my website - works every time!

Phil

[helimutt]

I guess 14-30 days would be about the limit on invoice. After that, dont fly for the operator until paid and maybe tell one or two others that they dont pay on time or at all. That sort of operator might not survive long. I know a couple of such people/companies.

I guess it's a personal choice but as someone offering services in a professional setup, you at least expect to be paid on time and treated fairly.
If you dont get paid and cant afford the fuel to get to work, would you still go?

[Bushrat]

If it has been too long (14-30days) keep flying for a bit but do not hand in flight tickets/reports until invoice paid....(ie they do not get their money till you get yours) fair is fair.

[Helinut]

fb,

Hmm. Been there and done that! Really annoying and not necessarily easy to deal with, in my experience. Trying to be sensible about it is more difficult, if like me it makes you simply mad. It is never wise to let too much emotion into the decision-making process.

I guess it depends upon your situation. Do you have plenty of work from others, or are you scratching around to pay the rent? Are there other outfits out there who would give you work, if you make yourself available to them? If so, make enquiries and then just move across, having carefully agreed terms with the new outfit before you go.

Why are they paying late? Is it because they are on max overdraft from the bank? In that case they are keeping your money due for last month to pay this month's wages for their employees. If that is where they are at, find another outfit to work for. They may not be there at all in a few months time.

Someitmes some smart arse in accounts just thinks it would be a giggle to pay late - he thinks he will get extra browny points for being able to reduce the company overdraft at the bank. If it is more likely to be like this, then it is worth approaching your normal contact and asking what is going on. Normal people generally appreciate your position, although there are some real s***tes around in this game from time to time.

It will help if you have something written down and agreed between you as to payment terms, as well as the other main elements of your contract.

Good Luck.

[flyboy23454]

Hi,

Thank you for taking the time to reply Helimutt, Paco and Bushrat

Yes have done some work for a company and despite promises of funds still have yet to receive any! I have not intention of working for free but again do not want to stir up to much trouble as I fairly low hours and do not want a reputation as a trouble maker within the industry.

I am aware this particular company are currently in debit to several people currently and showing no signs of making payment, just a lot of empty promises!!:=

I normally take a very hard line on bad debits, i.e. within a couple of months have them in the small claims court. I am reluctant to do this on this occasion for the stated reason!

Hopefully they will run out of pilots that will fly for them very soon and perhaps they may start paying the bills to the people that have worked hard for them!!

Think I just sent this to Helimutt, clicked the wrong reply button:rolleyes:!! Hopefully its up for all to see now!!;)

[Noiseboy]

In my previous life I was also self employed, I wouldn't take work from people who got more than 30 days overdue. I would inform them that I considered any bookings while money was outstanding to be unconfirmed and therefore I would take other work. If they wanted a reliable person then they had to be able to be relied upon.

Something that worked with one difficult client was to send them a letter informing them that since I had paid the VAT on their unpaid invoice to customs I needed their VAT number to inform HM Customs who the bad debt was when reclaiming the paid VAT, I got a cheque two days later. Only works if you're VAT registered of course, and they're not wanting anyone official to look into things.

If it gets past your terms, and there is no sign of the money being forthcoming then sign up at moneyclaim.gov and get the courts to sort it out.

Good luck.

[VfrpilotPB/2]

It always works when you send "Big Louie" :ouch: round to just sit in their main reception, people get very nervous when they dont know what is going to happen, and always pay up, lets face it once your at that stage you dont really want their business anymore, so it wont matter if they then avoid you like the plague:D


Peter( the Undertaker ) R-B :ok:

[paco]

Good tips, Noiseboy!

I guess Big Louie was in charge of the floating payment scheme - pay up or end up in the river! :)

Phil

[Evil Twin]

Hi Flyboy

I had this very similar problem on my very first contract as a freelancer, 2 weeks after the payment became overdue I called the office and asked for an explanation. I remained polite the whole time even when told that ' your invoice is getting near to the top of the pile to be paid'. I reiterated at that time that their invoice was overdue and that had I not shown up for the $5000 contract that I was indeed invoicing for, they would happily held me liable and pursued me for the value of lost business. Therefore I expected payment within 7 days.

My payment arrived within 7 days and I have made no enemies, as a low timer like yourself I did worry that I may be showing myself out to be a trouble maker, however that hasn't been the case and I have had no problems since.

ET

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

I was self employed for quite a few years before getting my current job.

Some operators paid me within a few weeks to a month; some took 3 - 6 months, which of course is not acceptable. This said I always got paid and never had to take any one to court.

1) Make an agreement before you start working for them.

2) Take photo copies of the tech logs for all the flights you conduct for them, just in case you do have to take them to court.

[flyboy23454]

Hi all

Many thanks to all that have replied!

I do especially like “Big Louie” and the floating payment scheme! I would get a lot of satisfaction from that one but maybe a prison sentence to!!

A more practical one may be Noiseboy; This Company does a lot of pleasure flying at weekends, so a lot of cash? They used to offer cash to the pilots but have now stopped this practice. I just wonder if the cash makes it way to the back or the back pocket of the owners with very little gong in the bank! My affairs are in order so I wonder if theirs are! . Maybe a phone call to the tax office!! He he

I do not think I will be flying for them again so again court is also another option which given the amount of money I feel I will have no choice.

I am not sure how deep the financial issues are or if its just the owner playing games, either way this is not my problem, if they could not afford to pay the pilots they should not ask them to work!!

I do know they have several aircraft on the ground due to maintenance issues and I am told some of their employed staff are waiting for their wages, so does not sound good!!

Why do people have to be so dam unreasonable, what ever happened to a “fair days work for a fair days pay” The silly thing is that they need pilots to operate, the owners do not hold CPL’s one has a PPL and I am not sure about the other so they can’t work, so why upset the most important people in your business!!!

Hopefully they will see sense and pay up!!!