Rescue 26 down?

[ryanonline]

Anyone got any info on the B412 ambo rescue 26 that went down at Albion Park today?

[noncombatant]

Yes I do have info on this incident. Keeping it to myself at the moment. Heavy landing - no body hurt.

[ryanonline]

yeah - heard that it was training for a new pilot.

any truth to the rumour that the aircraft has been written off?

[nathan_m]

the news mentioned that it fell 4 meters and is grounded

[noncombatant]

No truth to the right-off rumour......
Experienced pilots in the seats

[malabo]

Was that a Bristow or CHC 412?

"Write off" can be a subjective term. For example, there has never been a Bell 47 "write off", as long as the dataplate survived. Probably what is significant to the operator is how long will he be without a helicopter that he is still paying a lease cost on and is required on a contract. So, a "hard landing" meaning what, bent gear tubes? Kinked tailboom, blade strike, rolled over on its side?

Pilot training on a 412 - of course they were both experienced pilots. But were they experienced at training on a 412, or receiving training on a 412? Or were they experienced at mustering with an R22 and were just trying out a 412?

Don't keep it so close to your chest "noncombatant", or do you want the rumor network to generate its own version.

[helipan]

From todays The Daily Telegraph on line

Another crash for NSW Ambulance rescue chopper

THE state's problem-prone ambulance helicopter service has hit another snag, with one of its choppers involved in an accident yesterday.
The crash comes after another malfunction just last month, which took two helicopters out of action in order to fix the problem, and the fleet is now down one chopper until a replacement is found after the latest incident.
Two pilots who were conducting ground training exercises about 9.30am yesterday encountered engine problems and landed badly, causing serious damage.
"The helicopter landed too hard and that was what damaged it. It was a complete write-off," a source said.
A spokeswoman for NSW Ambulance confirmed the incident.
"Whilst hovering one to 2m off the ground the aircraft began to vibrate and the pilot in command immediately set the aircraft down," she said.
"Whilst setting the aircraft down, the tail rotor and skids were damaged. No injuries were sustained and the extent of the damage to the aircraft is being assessed by engineers."
The $270 million fleet of helicopters has been plagued by problems since the State Government snubbed the long-serving Westpac Lifesaver and NRMA CareFlight services for Canadian company CHC.
Just last month one of the CHC helicopters made an emergency landing at St Albans when a warning light came on and another helicopter was forced out to pick up the patient.
In August last year The Daily Telegraph revealed staff cuts had left the service unable to properly respond to emergencies.
Opposition health spokeswoman Jillian Skinner called for a full investigation to determine the extent of the issues within the fleet.
"This foreign helicopter service has been plagued with problems ever since the Iemma Government dumped the Careflight and surf lifesaver community helicopters," she said.

beleive it or not

[zalt]

Malabo

CHC (Bristow has no 412s in Australia)

[spanner90]

Don't believe everything in the media.

It doesn't help to speculate from a distance.:=

Vested interests will always try to over-state the extent of an aircraft incident.

Finally, it is not always the pic that causes an aircraft incident. So don't rabbit on about experience, or lack thereof, unless you have evidence.

The current operators of the ambulance helicopter service are among the most professional I have ever met, and no, I don't work with or for them.:p

[captainstoobing]

I do work for the Ambulance Service of NSW, and yes they have had problems. But the maintenance crews are impeccable. The crews of the choppers at Bankstown and myself are impressed by their professionalism and attention to detail and safety. This is of course from myself who knows little in the way of helicopter maintenance.
There have been no issues raised by SCAT Paramedics/Doctors and crewies in regards to safety to the HSU sub-branch.
I can say that it was a political exercise to bad mouth CHC. They won the tender from a panel made up of aeromedical experts from all over the country (not just NSW). People tend to conveniently forget that.
They are in use 24 hrs/7 days a week all over the state, and Rescue 26 is one of the most busiest.

[pohm1]

Opposition health spokeswoman Jillian Skinner called for a full investigation to determine the extent of the issues within the fleet.
"This foreign helicopter service has been plagued with problems ever since the Iemma Government dumped the Careflight and surf lifesaver community helicopters," she said.


Opposition point scoring??

P1

[spanner90]

Very sick and tired of CHC being referred to as a foreign helicopter service all the time.:yuk:

Most of the crews I have met are Aust, in fact most are ex-ADF.

Last time I looked, there wasn't a domestic helicopter manufacturer in Australia.

CHC bought Lloyds some years ago. They operate in Aust under an Aust AOC, issued by CASA.

I'm sure that I'm preaching to the choir here....

Who cares a toss where the company HQ is?:ugh:

[helo1]

All you d--kheads need to think that this could of happened to Careflight or Westpac.
Like i said once before all the people who put s--t on CHC must of been knocked back when they went for a job with them one time or another

[Overdrive]

All you d--kheads



Eh :confused: . I didn't read one d*ckhead comment above knocking CHC... mainly the opposite.

[Class Charlie]

Wow!,

Seems the accident has hit a bit of a raw nerve amongst the chc brigade.

It's amazing how the chc people were more than happy to put sh1t on the "vinnies" yet they don't seem to be able to accept that same sort of criticism?

Lets face it, if everything was really going as well as the chc people say it is, there would be nothing but praise about the operation and there would be people within chc falling over each other to get on the contract, especially with the knowledge that the pilots and crew would get to fly AW139's and Ec145's? (even if the EC 145 is a new generation Bk117 (so hated by the chc people). But the fact is that internally no one wanted to take up the offer??????????

[selfloadingballast]

Charles,
since about July of 2006 crap has been flying from those on both sides of the fence. Since December 2006 when the tender was announced CHC have copped a fair flogging. Once the contract started generaly speaking the majority of the crap has actually been from those who sit in the back of the machine, and not those who lost the contract, the first positive posting from an ambo was today when the love boat captain spoke out in defence of CHC, what a pleasant surprise!

It does appear that R26 has had an incident, the first for CHC in NSW, but let us not forget that BOTH the previous contractors have had their own incidents in the past, with a Doc being dropped off a hoist and a SA365C having a "hard landing" at the NP&WS depot at Blackheath (or there abouts) I guess that as there was no internet back then the issues were not disected by armchair experts and put under the microscope, as they are now.

It is a natural reaction to become defensive when sh1t happens, and I would suggest that those from within CHC are feeling the pressure, and it is made worse when outside sources (not just pruners) stir the pot (read politicians).

If you have problems with who was awarded the contract, I would suggest the people you need to criticise are those in Government not those who gained it.

Now I do not look at life through rose coloured glasses and realise that what I have posted will end up being a futile effort at two fingered typing, as some will continue to carry on in the same manner as all the previous CHC bashing posts, get over it all folks, life goes on and the contract will not change back unless the previous contractors win it back in X years time.

SLB

[selfloadingballast]

Unlikevice,
I agree that the issue is from the back, but let us remember that they are NOT the client, they are only employee's of the client, and from what I have heard there is just a handful of them that are causing problems, and they are easy to identify, as they walk around like they have a broomstick up their ar$e, and a storm cloud over their heads, and nothing is ever right, shame the bosses are unable to dump them, but their hands are tied by the unions. Love the brothers!:D

[Just another Trick]

Autos to the ground are not for me.
In my limited experience, I have first hand knowledge of four autos to the ground that have resulted in serious damage to an aircraft. Three were in training, one was for real.
Maybe we should rethink doing autos to the ground in training??
Now I know my four crashes are hardly a statistically reliable sample but it would seem pretty obvious to me that you are more likely to stuff up an auto in training than you are likely to have a failure of a magnitude that would cause you to need to attempt an auto to the ground for real.

[selfloadingballast]

I don't think, from reading the media release posted above that they were doing auto's. But as we all know, the media are not going to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[malabo]

"Big mussels" (sic). Do they scavenge beaches looking for grub? Or is the spelling prowness related to the "tiny brains"?

Anybody got anything more solid on the accident itself? Combing through everything above, we've got a training flight in a 412 resulting in a hard landing. Normally this jumps to a pilot error conclusion because of the risks induced during training with an aircraft. Doesn't look right though, with the tailrotor damage. A 412 tailrotor is a mile in the air and unlikely to be damaged in a landing accident during training. Then there is the "engine failure" hint and an resulting hovering auto - again not normally a big deal, except for the landing gear damage.

So to all you guys with sealed lips out there, was there a mechanical failure leading to a loss of tail-rotor and a subsequent roll-off the throttles by the pilots for the hover auto? I don't like trial of the pilots by innuendo, simply from non-disclosure of facts that would vindicate them.

[captainstoobing]

As someone who has friends as crewies and SCAT paramedics, yes there are SOME (and they are the older/longer serving ones) who are difficult to deal with.
A lot of the 'issues' are deep seated from the days of Lifesaver, with some still holding on to the 'injustice' of the whole thing.

The bottom line was that the 412 fitted more of the criteria set by the Ambulance Service in regards to effective transportation of two patients. Lifesaver/Careflight simply could not compete with an Adelaide based organisation that had access to a fleet of all the same aircraft/parts. To this day Mr Badenham from Careflight still has an agenda some believe.

Its interesting the comment was made that those with 'big muscles and little brains'.

Not all SCAT officers have ego, but some do. Hence the alternate meaning of SCAT- (Silly C--ts Acting Tough).

[LLSRC]

Not sure where you got the idea that they were doing practice touch down autos from but it's the first i've heard about it. Besides the fact it is a prohibited manoeuvre in the RFM and against company policy I find this suggestion absurd to say the least. Noone who wants to remain employed for long does hover autos in a B412 just for giggles, or training or any other reason. That is why the professional outfits do regular sim training, so those emergencies can be practised without bending hard to come by airframes.

Having conducted hundreds of autos to the ground in various types and so far incident free i suggest that maybe your track record could be due to poor technique/ training and not an overrly dangerous manoeuvre as you have suggested.

Class Charlie

Something to think about regarding your comments.

I can think of quite a few reasons why CHC staff would not be falling over themselves to be part of the Syd contract.

1. Difficult client (plenty of posts on here to support that)
2. Low pay ( compared to offshore)
3. Expensive locality ( Sydney, nice harbour, try living there)
4. Dangerous/ difficult flying (SPIFR in Syd airspace/ EMS/ night work)

Yes that work is varied and can be rewarding but for some who are already on a pretty good wicket the change from a relatively stable/ cruisy offshore job is just not worth hassle.

[trimpot]

Definitely not done doing touch down auto's. :cool:

[ryanonline]

I understand that R26 made an emergency landing in Goulburn only last Sunday and only 3 days later...

[spanner90]

I think this c:mad:p has gone far enough.

Mods, please turn it off.

[MS29513-017]

ryanonline - Go grind your axe else where pal :mad: . Stop your crying and get over it.
I have seen a few CHC operations worldwide and they are pretty hard to beat. Lots of australians working for them worldwide and always very professional.
I do not work for them but i do work with helicopters and one thing i know is accidents happen no matter who your are.
The fact that such a large global operation has so few should be a good example on how good they are.

[Freewheel]

If the mods do that, then the thread will remain as it is, just closed.

If it stays open, other views may be permitted and who knows, a link to a report may be added for people to read it for themselves.

It's happened before y'know...

[StirCrazie]

Ryanonline, I dont know where your gettin your info from but 22 was the aircraft at Goulburn the other day, and it wasnt an emergancy landing.
Lets just try and focus on the facts, instead of all this other sh1t thats gettin flung around.

[trimpot]

Should it be "Ryanondrugs" :}

[malabo]

Anybody know what model 412 it was? Some "cognoscenti" ridiculed the media for referring to it as a "write-off". So I guess it must be back flying by now? I haven't seen Bell come out with any AD's as a result.

Why so quiet? We get more details of the Dubai 139 where posters risk getting flogged, or worse.

[Alba T Ross]

Funny how CHC operate 12 EMS machines around the country and the only 2 that are constantly mentioned on here are the 2 Bankstown based machines, I wonder why that is?????

3-4 x VIC
1 x ACT
1 x WA
2 x QLD
4 x NSW

[StirCrazie]

Bell412 "classic". Not written off, but there is significant damage

[captainstoobing]

CHC have ordered 3 brand new Augustas for the ASNSW, wit more to come.

One recently pictured in an ASNSW fortnightly publication.

[Breeze 29900]

The latest rumour is that whilst in a hover about ten feet agl a severe vibration and control problems were encountered as a result the PIC dropped the collective resulting in damage to the skids and tail etc.

It's believed that the vibration and control issues were a result of a failure of one or more transmission mounts. Perhaps the other mounts let go upon impact?

Anyone in Wollongong spoken to someone with an american accent & wearing a Bell cap in the last week checking out the 412? My source is reliable but this is still difficult to believe. It's one of those things would don't want to hear. Has someone out there got more definative information?

I'm not having a go at the owner of that helicopter, it can happen to anyone, just be careful doing your daily if you fly a classic 412.

[malabo]

A 412 Classic with that kind of damage is a write-off. Yeah, with all due respect to Stir-crazy , Spanner90, and noncomabatant's opinions, we have gone from "no damage because the pilots were experienced" to "hard landing" to "significant damage". Tailboom gone, tranny out of its mounts, its all over, write-off. Must have been a wild ride.

Anybody got some pictures?

[zoomcage]

So CareFlight and Westpac are immune to accidents/incidents? Hardly!

They had their fair share and more...some didn't even make publication.

**** the medical teams in NSW could do a LOT worse. They should be grateful they have a sound organisation like CHC flying them.

[Breeze 29900]

Dear zoomcage,

Can I take that as confirmation in regards to failure of the Transmission mount/s or are you tuned into a different VOR?

I was interested in the cause of the incident as I think most aviators would be, you lost me a little in your response.

[nathan_m]

went past last night and they had another 412 there.

blue and red with white doors, is this from Sydney?

[helo1]

It could be the orange machine or vh-bzh fire bomber used in victoria.
They will be getting vh-pvk ex vic police airwing machine.
Its up in Sydney at the moment

[ChopperFAN]

Never knew their were so many rescue helicopters in NSW...

http://lakescan.customer.netspace.net.au/RescueHelicopters.html

Whats the paint on Rescue 26, im down in South Australia so have no idea, we see the SA rescue contract 412 everyday flying around its an awesome machine

Any word as to if its being repaired? Scary to imagine a bent 412

Simon:cool:

[SuperSleuth]

Helo 1,

I take it vh-pvk is an AS365, if that's the case will be interesting to see how it all works out.

As I understand it (sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) the customer specified the contract requirement was for a single type interim platform for standardisation of procedures & practices etc...

[LLSRC]

Confirmed, replacement 412 online in WOL. Previous machine being repaired, new 139 to arrive in near future

[sunnywa]

Having read through this thread, I find nothing concrete as to what happened to the 412 to make it carry out its heavy landing. Personally not interested in the CHC vs CareFlight BS, just professionally interested in what went wrong so that I can learn from it.

Anybody (who actually knows what happened) care to elaborate on the event so that this forum can gain experience from it. Hate to have it happen to me and then someone say ''Óh yeah, that happened to Rescue 26 last year

[nathan_m]

Spoke to a friend who witnessed the incident and he said it (from a plank drivers point of view) was hovering and then started to spin and landed hard, he also said that there was no noticeable damage. We were both drinking at the time he told me this story so sorry if it is a little wrong, but he seems to be the only reliable source or witness to this event I know.

But there is a new 412 there vh-bzh (I think thats what it said)

:ugh:

[Torquer]

Could it have anything to do with this (http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgAD.nsf/0/93799A78B12993CD86257441004C3BEA?OpenDocument)?

Airworthiness Directives; Bell Helicopter Textron Model 204B, 205A, 205A-1, 205B, 210, 212, 412, 412CF, and 412EP Helicopters

AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration, DOT.

ACTION: Final rule; request for comments.

SUMMARY: This amendment adopts a new airworthiness directive (AD) for the specified Bell Helicopter Textron (Bell) model helicopters. This action requires certain checks and inspections of each tail rotor blade assembly (T/R blade) at specified intervals and repairing or replacing, as applicable, any unairworthy T/R blade. This amendment is prompted by three failures of a T/R blade occurring during flight and a recent incident of a cracked T/R blade discovered during a scheduled visual inspection. The actions specified in this AD are intended to detect damage to a T/R blade that could lead to cracking of a T/R blade and subsequent loss of control of the helicopter.

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: A proposal to amend 14 CFR part 39 to include an AD for the specified model helicopters was published in the Federal Register as Docket No. FAA-2006-26219, Directorate Identifier 2004-SW-49-AD on November 2, 2006 (71 FR 64484). That Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) was prompted by eight reports of fatigue cracking of T/R blades installed on Bell Model 212 and 412 helicopters (three failures on the Bell Model 212 and five failures on the Bell Model 412) with a blade assembly, part number (P/N) 212-010-750-009, - 105, and -107. Six of the cracks initiated between blade stations 30 to 33.5; one crack initiated at blade station 21.9; and one crack initiated at blade station 27.6. Three of these T/R blades failed during flight and all were installed on Bell Model 412 series helicopters. In one of the in-flight failures, the T/R blade failed due to a fatigue crack that initiated in the blade skin from a nick .060 inches long by .008 inches deep. The initial damage was above the maximum allowable damage limit for the blade skin provided in the maintenance manual. That failed blade had accumulated 1,478 hours time- in-service (TIS). In another in-flight failure, a section of the T/R blade separated from the helicopter during cruise flight at 5,500 feet. The helicopter was reported to have violently turned down and to the left. The helicopter "leveled out" at approximately 1,000 feet before setting down in the water. The blade failed due to a cracked stainless steel leading edge spar that originated from a corrosion pit .001 inches deep. The corrosion area extended .003 inches along the surface of the origin location. That blade had accumulated 4,643 hours TIS. In the third in-flight failure, sanding on the spar and chem-milling was found during a post-accident investigation. The crack had initiated at blade station 21.9 and the blade had accumulated 1,232 hours TIS.

[spinwing]

Mmmmmm ......

Probably NOT !

:E

[Trojan1981]

But there is a new 412 there vh-bzh (I think thats what it said)


Think thats right. Now probably in need of a spotlight after last night...

[miniclubman]

BZH is fitted with a Nitesun and has been for a while!

[Trojan1981]

I know it is but the tug driver ran into it!
Not sure if it is BZH, just saw it as I was passing through.

[Yikes]

Want some extra badges for those brown leather jackets............get a life

[PPRuNeUser0212]

SuperSleuth, yes an AS365 has been bought in on the NSW Ambulance contract. By the paint scheme it looks like the Dauphin from the Mackay CQ Rescue contract. It is now operating in Orange. Must of run out of spare 412s in the country.

[PPRuNeUser0212]

looks like I have to stand corrected here, what a difference two days makes. Now apparently no helicopter in the Central West for the rest of the week. Probably doesn't matter, the weather is ****e.
Cloud hangs over helicopter service - Local News - News - General - Central Western Daily (http://orange.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/cloud-hangs-over-helicopter-service/801672.aspx)

[Torquer]

"Mmmmmm ......

Probably NOT !"

In that case, I'd suggest you were wrong. :ugh: