View Full Version : Is fuel price ganna affect FTOs' Training Packages


AvEnthusiast
8th Jun 2008, 18:41
Hi,

I was wondering if with fuel prices going up, FTOs are going to raise their training package prices. And if they do, would it be a huge amount? or slight difference?



coodem
8th Jun 2008, 19:04
Most schools now have a fuel surcharge. Where I am at the moment it is around 20 per engine, so 40 per hour extra for a multi engine. So to answer your question, it already has affected the price of training

peterinmadrid
8th Jun 2008, 19:26
Aerofan in Madrid has just increased the price of its ATPL course from 45k (euros) to 59k. Rental of the C152 has gone up from 120 to 145 per hour.

redout
8th Jun 2008, 19:31
I think that its only a matter of time before FTOs start passing this on to students. I heard of one school in Spain last year that gave all students who had started courses a year previous a bill for 1,000 for fuel stating the difference in the current cost to a year previous. But this was wrote in the contracts signed stating this could happen. So there was nothing the people could do about it. So make sure you check that with any potential FTO that you are considering.

Walk the line
8th Jun 2008, 19:36
Come on...this is one of the silliest posts that I've seen for a while. Of course courses will go up - FTO's (like petrol stations) wont just absorb price increases..they have to be passed on to the consumer. Naturally this will effect demand, but its better than becoming insolvent due to poor profit margin!

What next?!

mustflywillfly
8th Jun 2008, 21:38
How about the fact that less people will be foolish enough to get into this "game" at the moment. Whilst the economy is crumbling and the future for pilots looks bleak then perhaps there will be fewer numbers going through the doors of FTOs? They may actually need to lower prices or offer some sort of insentive to keep the number of trainees up. Either way training will stay a complete rip off and we will continue to be ripped off by the likes of the CAA and their ludicrous charges. To be honest I am sick to death of FTOs thinking they are somehow doing students a favour by training them. They need to remember that trainees keep them employed.

Hard hat on for inevitable predictable wrath of abuse for dare suggesting an alternative view.......

MFWF :ok:

Adios
8th Jun 2008, 22:17
MFWF,

No wrath from me, just fits of laughter over the naivete. FTOs are businesses, just like airlines. When there are fewer customers, they simply scale back their operations, tighten their belts, pass off the increase to the remaining customers and ride it out, just like the airlines do. The smarter ones will have seen it coming and will already have scalable business plans that keep them in the black.

Go ahead and sign a training contract with one offering a reduced price because demand slowed down. Do pay up front in cash as well, small unmarked bills in a briefcase are preferred. Don't worry, there is no chance at all that they will go insolvent after giving up the profit margins and dipping their quills in red ink. The owners will simply reach into their personal bank accounts and float them along until oil prices come down and all will be cheery and bright.

Let me know when you find one doing this because I have a few million spare pounds to invest. I am looking for a company that is losing money on 100 students per year and wants to increase it to losing money on 300 per year!

seang
8th Jun 2008, 23:00
This is a purely hypothetical (that's such a good word) question, but what do you reckon would happen to flying schools if one day all pilot wanabees suddenly decided they didn't want to fork out thousands upon thousands of pounds to train for a career they may never actually get a job in and stopped, or never even started, flight training? Would they all shrug their shoulders, flog their aircraft and buildings and call it a day or would they go touting crazy trying to get all wanabees back with ridiculous incentives? Like Adios says, most will pass on the cost to their remaining customers in hard times, but what if they had NO customers because the whole wanabee fraternity suddenly came over all French-like an decided on a mass boycott? Like I said, purely hypothetical, but there's bugger all on the telly, the whole family is in bed, my local pub has had a flood and shut early and I fancy some social interaction
cheers
Sean

nich-av
8th Jun 2008, 23:05
How about the fact that less people will be foolish enough to get into this "game" at the moment. Whilst the economy is crumbling and the future for pilots looks bleak then perhaps there will be fewer numbers going through the doors of FTOs? They may actually need to lower prices or offer some sort of insentive to keep the number of trainees up.


Unfortunately this is not the way it works.
When there are fewer students, FTO's earn less, but they stay profitable.

Theoretically, FTO's can be profitable even with 2 or 3 new PPL students every month. Instructors are mostly paid only for the hours they fly.
Bigger integrated JAR FTO's training in the US will see profit margins decrease, but their margins are so huge that they can do very well with half or even less students.

If fuel increases, training rates increase.

Adios
8th Jun 2008, 23:17
Getting all wannabes to quit completely would be harder than just getting them to stop paying for Type Ratings. It will remain a hypothetical, but to humour your vision of collective bargaining grandeur, the airlines would have to start funding training again once the pilot shortage hit them hard enough.

seang
8th Jun 2008, 23:48
Nice one Adios, my vision for collective bargaining grandeur has been well and truly humoured. Power to the people, I'll be at Speaker's Corner next Saturday calling for a boycott of all flying schools. Just watch the crowd grow around me chanting "What do we want? Funding. When do we want It? Now!!" I take it I can count on your support
Cheers
Sean

wilky
9th Jun 2008, 09:17
My flight school has just increased it's prices. 10 more an hour for SEP.

heli_port
9th Jun 2008, 21:54
I suspect it will :eek:

Adios
9th Jun 2008, 22:21
Seang,

Just tell me when and I'll be there with picket signs and all!

seang
9th Jun 2008, 23:01
Comrade Adios,
let the revolution begin, looking for a brazier right now for those long nights on the picket line
cheers, Seanski