Bush-bird namibia

[bladi]

Hi guys does anybody knows how it is to work for bush-bird in namibia?? It will be very helpfull for me if you can give me some information about these people??

Thank you

[Voel]

If you wanna build up hours, its the place to be:ok:. Anotherwise nothing to write home about:oh:. You will however enjoy the scenics flights they do:O

[Propellerpilot]

It's a one man "family" operation basically - the boss being the main man ("unfortunatly" sometimes his wife... hint), so it is important you get along with him (and her... hint), it is probably the smallest operator in Nam. He is usually pretty cool and chilled, which in the worst case can cause misunderstanding. You will probably spend a lot of time in the office as well. He prefers his pilots to be from Europe, financially though, pay is more on the low end of the market, anyone from Europe will take a serious bite. You will be better off flying for Atlantic or Pleasure Flights as you get paid per flight and in season will earn double that what Bushbird pays for the same work.

You will fly mainly the Sossusvlei Scenic route until you get sick of it. The hours are ok and are on par with other operators, however little diversity. If you want some fun and some hours, I can recommend it-it might give you what you need to move on, but I guess that's a personal decision. Best you go there and introduce yourself..

Hope this gives a realistic picture - my info is second hand from a good friend of mine.

[bladi]

Thanks for all the info but i still have doubts about it i dont know what to do the want that i sign the contract and they dont even see me. Really a little bit strange?? Dont you think???

[Propellerpilot]

If you sign the contract you will have a C210 job descibed by me and Voel as above, nothing to worry about exept the things I mentioned on the sideline which are more intern - but any operator has pros and cons and you might get on with Andy very well or not (vice versa) - something that can only be determined by being there for a while. I personally know Andy as a very friendly guy, always greeted me and talked on the Swakop apron. If you fit in, then you will get along. There is absolutly nothing wrong with the operation itself - all within the law etc.

If you are happy with the contract itself and the pay, then go for it.

Otherwise go down there if it will make you happy and look at the operation yourself it is not really an issue: in the end you will have to make a choice and there is not much to see: this is a small business with an office in Swakopmund and it is the boss and you who will do the flying (there are only 2 aircraft and one is still u/s from a wheels-up landing) and maybe a freelance now and then.

I do not know what you want or expect, so it is a bit difficult to be more specific in giving advice. I think what was said here and when consider the nature of your contract, it should be more than enough plausible info to make a deceision on your part.

[gerpols]

I found their website, but could not find their e-mail adres !
Does anyone know?

Thanks.

GP

[Voel]

[email protected]

[gerpols]

Voel,

A few years ago, I flew for Desert Air and WFTC.
The great days that Hein Janik and Jon Branca were still alive..!!
How is life nowerdays in beatiful Windhoek..?

Just wondering............

Everybody's talking about the good old days..............!!

Fly safe everybody

Gary :)

[hjmemon]

@gerpols
Is there any contact (email) for Desert air and WFTC, where i can drop in my CV.
Thanks

[gerpols]

Just Google for Desert air Namibia. The boss is Mr Thys Rall. You can send him your resume, but he will only wipe his ass with it. Do what I did, and go and nock on his front door. If he´s in a good mood he might even talk to you....!!

For WFTC, just google, its right there.

And never give up..whatever people say...!!

Gary

[hjmemon]

thanks for the info. Found one general info email for desert air. Sent in my cv on that.
couldnt find anything on WFTC. shall appreciate a little help on that please.
And as far as going and knocing his door. i would have done it but i am kinda too far away to do that. am in pakistan.
anyways always thankful to you guys at PPRUNE for such great help.

[Propellerpilot]

Hjmemon, don't get your hopes up with DA - it has nothing to do with you, but you don't fit into their operation, don't waste your time showing up there personally.

[forkingfishing]

gerpols, what are you up to these days?

[gerpols]

Flying skydivers (208) and tourists around here in Holland. Just got back from a 3 month tour in Afghanistan also. Saw Johan there too, who used to fly for Desert Air also. He is now flying the C130.
Other than that, hope to fly tha Citation Mustang by the end of this tear for a Air Charter out of Antwerp, Belgium.
What are you doing ?

Have a great day!!

Gary

[jetjockeyusa]

Caution is advised when working there. I will explain why, so in case you do want to work there either way, you will be better prepared, since you do fly a lot there to build hours fast.

When going to work there, study carefully what is in the contract because when I signed mine, it had lies on it such as my effective starting date was clearly stated as well as the probationary month periods to be paid full salary, that I was never paid (read more ahead). I decided to quit during the probationary period and was not paid my salary, in fact, Andy wanted to charge me initially for all the scenic flights I participated in as an observer (too bad he listed me as crew and not as passenger which is Illegal since I was not type rated in the C210s yet).

The thing there is simple. Before you start work there, does not matter what Andy says, INSIST that you want the working visa ready upon the first day of training. He will tell you to come with a tourist visa and then he will get you your namibian working visa (which you can easily obtain yourself online), but DO NOT FALL for that mistake like I did. Here is why. Technically speaking, you cannot earn a salary if you are there on a tourist visa. Andy knows that and during the probationary period he will do everything possible for you not to get your working visa which is a 1 week thing to receive. He will have you work under a tourist visa that in case you decide to leave during the probationary period (which is 3 months long), you will earn no salary but worked enough for him. On top of that he will also try and charge you for every single expense of course so at the end you owe him money. To me that is a disgrace and insult and therefore I want to warn as many pilots as possible before joining Bush Bird.

The other thing is that Andy is really a lousy boss. All he really cares for is his money but definitely not for his pilots. He seems to stick his nose into other people's affairs like when I was trying to live in an apartment and leave that studio that was provided by bush bird (for a very high price !!!! Knowing it will be hard to almost impossible for you to be able to rent something furnished on your own which in case you do find, it would cost maybe 80 US$ more a month for living in a mansion compared to a 2 star hotel room which he provides) . He came to me starting a strange conversation basically trying to corner me, but more to the studio later. Andy is the type of person that will have you do most work possible, even from what I heard from other pilots making them fly on their off days, example making them do one quick flight and then still wanting to count it as an off day. Things like that.

Also, before each flight you have to sign a waiver. Maybe that is a Namibian thing in general but I flew internationally and joined as a high houred experienced pilot and nowhere ever did I sign a waiver, especially a waiver where I put my word to fly safely and within Namibian laws, however, Andy teaching pilots to fly 20 ft above the ground over national parks etc where minimum altitude by law is 2500 ft, so in case someone takes a picture of you down there and sends it to DCA or worse, you hit a vuture (plenty of them around) at that level and do a forced landing, you are cooked and he is protected and you lose your license, job and future and he will with no feel of embarrassment on his behalf cowardly tell you in the face "well, nobody told you to fly at 20 ft"

That is the type of boss you will have.

As for the studio. It is small, no curtains, just some weak shaders so expect night time to be as bright as daytime in your room due to the parking lot lights shining in your room. You are on the buttom floor and have to keep the weak shutters closed because everyone will see your room, what you do if you leave it open because all pass by your window. The shower window faces the apartment complex trash deposit so don't even open it to let the hot air out because your place will smell like a trash deposit. On top of that the fridge is so loud and 1 yard next to your bed that you might as well just unplug it like me and previous pilots did that lived in there. On top of that, the price is way too high because for a little bit more money (80 US$ a month most) you could live on an apartment on the beach ! Since it is a small town, it is basically impossible to find a 1-2 bedroom furnished apartment and if you are very lucky to find it which believe me would already be way bigger and nicer than Bush Bird's studio, then for a tiny bit more money you would be improving your quality of life enormously. Andy knows you got no chance and therefore keeps the price way high, speaking of a fair boss. Also, the numbers above that I used to compare his studio to furnished apartments etc are correct because I was for one week trying to find a new place and that is what Andy found out and started to try put me under pressure in staying in his studio, speaking of him putting his nose into other people's affairs which I mentioned above.

I made the experience of Bush Bird being : Dishonest, Fake, Unprofessional, Cowardly and treacherous. In case something negative happens, do not expect them to back you up ! You will be on your own because those are people that point fingers at you right away and happily put all the blame on you to protect themselves and their company, although undergoing several illegal operations in terms of signing a waiver before each flight to do things that they are not allowed to do.

Be careful...

[jetjockeyusa]

Oh, I also just saw that someone in here wrote that Bush Bird's Operations are within law, well, not at all and it seems the person that wrote that did not fly for Bush Bird, so i would like to correct that.

Well, it is not by law

1. Ignoring your requests to become a working visa so you spend most time possible working for him with a tourist visa so you earn no salary during that probation period although contract says you do earn money during probationary period (goes against human rights laws, labor laws and immigration laws) (happened to me)

2. Making you sometimes do some quick flights on your off days and still wanting to count it as an off day. Did not happen to me but info comes from pilots that work and worked there. (goes against air laws, labor laws)

3. Making you sign a waiver before each flight where you sign that you do all within limits. Yet you are taught to fly low level and in case of a problem there, you will be blamed and in case of your death, your parents will be held liable for dead tourists compensation money. Bush bird is protected through that waiver. (goes against moral laws, air laws, labor laws)

4. Lists you as Crew when you are not yet properly trained and type rated in that particular aircraft. With other words in case of an emergency during a observer flight loaded with passengers, you will be held responsible as well as the trainee in case the wrong actions are taken. (goes against air laws, labor laws) (Happened to me but not the emergency part)

5. In case you quit during your 3 month probation period you will be approached by Andy to pay back all your training, including scenic flights where you flew as an observer he will try and push out of you, yes, he even goes that far. Yet, you earn nothing because he denied your working visa, giving it as an excuse "ah this is Africa and it takes a long time" (yet Namibia is more German governed than Germany itself I found out) or "We are working on it and should be ready soon" (yet they do not).

With other words, you will pay him money that you owe him for training and observer flights (because in his words "well you took a seat of a client and therefore caused the flight to be a deficit". You obviously signed a contract by than that also states you will be paid a salary but of course that salary does not exist because you are there on a tourist visa, but of course the money that you have to pay back for every single thing exists because in his logic the contract is there and exists only for you to be a illegal worker until you are as he states "fully trained" in the C210 so you can start go on your own making money for him, which is exactly then when your working visa appears like a miracle on your first day of work.


If you want to go fly and build some hours and don't give a rat's about fairness and codes of ethics and respect, then go ahead and fly your hours there, because you will get plenty of those.

[B Sousa]

One thing will make all well after reading the above posts.......

Windhoek Lager

[lilflyboy262]

Can anyone tell me where bushbird, desert air and WFTC is located in Namibia.

[Csanad007]

The town is called Swakopmund.

[abhi88]

Desert air and WFTC are in Windhoek.....:ok:

[lilflyboy262]

Thanks guys :) Much Appreciated.

[jetjockeyusa]

Oh do I miss that beer . As well as the Oryx steaks ! Thinking of the garbage beer and meats we got here (compared to Namibian) it would have been a good point to actually endure all of the bad things about the company I mentioned above :}

[lilflyboy262]

The Gemsbok fillet, medium rare, with mushroom sauce.... at joes beer house.... to die for.

[Tobitree]

Im working for Bush Bird for 8 months now. i have some of the best times of my life here in swakopmund.
we are now 3 employed pilots for 3 aircraft at Bush Bird.
all of us agree that Bush Bird is the jackpot in C210 jobs in namibia and we wouldnt want to work for some other companies.
sefofane, westair and scenic air should also be ok, but forget about the other ones.
i found myself confronted with those negative statements in this forum when i was offered the job over a year ago. my big luck that i was able to get some reliable info that the company is ok and i went for it.
the doubts induced in me by those negative statements were a waste of time and i want to make sure future candidates can skip them.
so the reason why i decided to put my head up in this post is that we will need new pilots at some point and i want to get nice colleagues here and hope the ones that would fit in wont get scared away by bad posts.
sure, one shouldnt praise the day before the evening and i know some guys that got into small conflicts just before they left the company - because they didnt respect their contracts and just left in the middle of high season with just 4 weeks notice.
you have to understand that is a huge effort for the company to get a new pilot operational, and it takes around 2 months. the spend a lot of time with administrative paperwork to make it eventually happen.
in order to justify that effort, a pilot needs to stay at least a year, and if he just leaves after a couple of months, its a desaster.
lets face it, you dont find a job in europe because you have little hours, so here is the place to start. decide for yourself if for that opportunity you are willing to commit yourself to stay here for a year or not, and then stick to it.
dont even bother if you get paid for the probation period or not, who cares. you made huge investments in your dream career, so this doesnt really make any difference anymore. we always got paid in time though, never felt cheated in any way.
it might be a bad idea to come here with completly empty pockets, but the salary covers the basic living expenses here and is just as good if not better then most other companies.
the company already knows that im gonna leave in about 5 month, no problem to let them know and i expect to have a good end of my work contract period and have a great reference for future carreer. will keep you updated on that.
andy is not a lousy boss, he cares about the pilots, answers all questions with patience, cares alot about the technical status of the aircraft which happen to be the best equipped in the country.
i once got blamed about nonsense by the boss of another company and recieved superb backup from andy.
there might be instances where he takes the opportunity to make a point about who is the boss, but as far as i can tell thats happens to be what bosses do.
if high hour pilots (im curious why they even apply for the job) cant apply common sense regarding the thing with signing the waiver and air law regulations, its ridiculous.
the flying here is most beautiful and rewarding, i know a couple of guys flyin line in europe now getting bored to death wishing themselves back here to do some Sossusvlei scenics.
the one studio offered by Bush Bird is occupied by my friend and colleague who is more than happy with it and skipped the opportunity to move somewhere else more than once.

if you get the offer - be happy and take it. there are many guys around who wish they could speak german in order to be able to work for Bush Bird instead of other companies.

[Csanad007]

As I went through this thread and read jetjockey's crap I wonder if he was ever close to Swakopmund (what's a jetjock doing in prop cowboys paradise anyway?). I am the other pilot flying for Bush Bird. Let's say the FNG. I got online in 2 months with the owners helping me in everything. Paperwork, exams, whatever problems I had. This cannot be said about other companies, where you're almost left on your own.
Not to mention the latest firing wave here in Swakop. Or the training periods that stretch 3-4-5 (sometimes 8) months at some companies. Or the tennis play that one company did with one of their recruit...
When Andy gives you a job and you get here you can be sure that it is not only your interest to get online asap but his as well.
And as Tobitree said, lots of pilots here in Swakop would love to work for Bush Bird. Hope that those who read this topic till the end will not forget that this is a rumour network... Also whichever company gives you a first chance hang on and try to do your best. Good luck to you all!

[DaFly]

It seems like the "jetjockey" knows as little about the air law as he does about spelling. It is the duty of any operator to ensure that their pilots are legal to fly. Validity of licence, work permit, CRM, DGR, medical, recency, etc. In addition to that, it is the PIC's duty to make sure the flight is conducted within the legal limits, be it W&B or minimum altitudes. What he calls a 'waiver' would be called a 'sign on sheet' by others. Most charter companies do put on their sign on sheet, that you as PIC have to ensure, that the above mentioned conditions are met.
Even Airlines work on some sort of sign on system for the crew. As to the work visa and "working" as crew on a holiday visa: it is highly illegal to do anything that might resemble work on a holiday visa. If you are caught, your back side will be in the sling, you will be the one to see an African prison form the inside for a few nights before being deported. So if jetjockey sat is bum in an aircraft as crew before he had a work permit or visa, it is a bit childish to blame the "boss" for that.
And as to the "German governed" Namibia: If you want a work permit or visa, go through an agent, since we are in Africa and things do get handled the African way. It might still be better, than in some of the neighboring countries, but don't get your hopes up when it comes to efficiency.
In general, your contract, your probational period and the salary that goes with it, can only start after you have been issued a work visa or permit. Anything else is illegal. How blue eyed is it, to expect to receive a salary while on holiday visa? Jetjockey, you must be either very blond, or truly american, probably both.
As for the boss, Andy, himself: I don't know, what he is like now, but a few years back he was certainly not the worst one around, in Swakopmund and all of Nam that is. Go to Pleasure Flights or Atlantic (same main peanut in charge of both) and you will be in **** before you have even said good morning. Very moody conditions there. I know of a number of descent guys, who have been fired and reinstated up to 3 times in one day.
As to the low flying: Most of the companies doing scenic flights do low flying, below 500 ft. You may not fly lower than 1500 ft over game reserves. If you have ever seen what low level flying does to a breeding herd of elephants, you must be an complete idiot to do it again, no tip should encourage you to that.
Most of the low flying is done along the coast line, over stretches where you hardly bother any wildlife.

I doubt, that bush bird is such a bad company to work for. There are a lot worse out there.

[classicart]

@ Tobitree (http://www.pprune.org/members/286534-tobitree)
@ Csanad007 (http://www.pprune.org/members/284418-csanad007)
@ DaFly (http://www.pprune.org/members/174611-dafly)

Great guys!
It is refreshing to hear some balanced remarks about Bush Bird (or any) company instead of the poisonous vile being spewed by disgruntled others.

Congratulations to Csanad on being the FNG there and on a most beautiful website.

[krks]

I am really interested in joining any company like bushbirds or similar... but i am a fresh pilot, just got my PPL, IR and CPL 250tt FAA license... I want to ask you guys who are already there and know how this works.. do I have any chance on getting a job there? I need to convert my license and should get a type rating on cessna 210, how much time and money this would cost me? for those of you who are there, how much money do you estimate i should have to do the conversion type rating and live in there for a couple of months or so until i get a job?
Thank you very much everyone. It would be my dream coming true being able to work in a place like bushbirds

[Propellerpilot]

If you search a bit you will find a lot of resources on this site. Unfortunately Andy prefers employing German speaking pilots and there are always a couple around - so it will be a bit difficult for you to get into Bush Bird except if Namibia becomes a prime spanisch Tourist attraction ;)

[Csanad007]

This is true, but there are other companies in Namibia that hire non German speakers as well. And you might never know, Scenic hired 3 Spanish and a Cuban this year :) Not to mention that the senior pilot for Bush Bird is spanish (German speaking thou) :D

And then there is Maun...

[Propellerpilot]

Sure ! I do admit I am a bit out of the Namibian loop at the moment - I just read on bush-birds website the other day that they are getting loads of CV's and they only consider German speakers if anybody. Other companies in Nam: different story!

[Tobitree]

Hi again, just to update as promised: it was possible to finish my time at Bush Bird without problems - got all papers, invoices, statements, salary and smiling faces on all sides. Happy days - except that I miss Namibia already.
Cheers Tobitree

[flying free.LEVC]

That´s great Tobetree, how many hours did you get? I guess your new plan is coming back to Europe, when aviation seems to be gettinp up? isn´t it?

Cheers

[jetjockeyusa]

Ignorance, the root and stem of every evil - plato

Of course, in the opinion of the many, I was never a pilot there and my writing is aweful. Unfortunately I am one of the few who types with two fingers and makes the mistakes to type fast, too fast. Not to mention, English not being my native language. But of course, given my pprune account name, for the ignorant, I must of course be an American.

Yes, of course I just came online to write bad about the outfit, just for the fun of it. I definitely met that pilot that has been there since eight years (although the other pilots I flew with there such as James and some other bloke whose name I forgot) know nobody as such. Good try Andi to put some good publicity into this.

For sure, the few bafoons that wrote bad about my post with the intention to warn others have lived in the apartement facing the trash deposit and were cornered when the boss found out that you are looking for a new apartement.

yes my dear few, I have been there, maybe too short to have written up my report but what the heck, that is how it was and I stand to this. But I am a veteran pilot with now over 3000 jet time under his belt, so for that matter and such pilots definitely see things different than the hour builder that ventures Africa. Please, do not understand me wrong here. I envy the pilot who ventures Africa, I wish I would have done my time building there. I went there, because I was sick of airline flying. I wanted to do what you time builders are doing but for the fun of it. You have no idea how many of you guys called me a fool. To leave a 737 700/800NG for a C210. Well, now I am leaving a G550 for a Embraer 195. Again, many call me a fool for that but I rather earn half but have a safe flight and professional flight environment.

But then again. From certain hour builders I witnessed unprofessional behaviour when it got to people flying at the coast at levels they feel like flying instead of following the laws. Accident rates are pretty horrible in that region. A lack in monitoring such pilots is one of the main reasons. I am sure, those type of pilots also come in such a forum to goof around rather than let one pilot that made a bad experience, do his bad propaganda for an outfit who I still today, call unprofessional.

But the numbnuts, that bash around other people's English and that really believe that I just wrote all of that for fun, those of course are the most credible of all.

Again new pilots. You want to fly for that guy, go ahead do so. he might be your best friend and I admit, we started off great. But I do not and will not sign anything stating I am not allowed to do something but at the same time being encouraged by the boss to do it either way. Because when you crash, it is your arse on the line. So all of you who sign those papers and adhere to the by law correct altitude restrictions, to you I take my hat off. To all others, you are a disgrace and a hazard to aviation, risking not just your lives, but the ones of the passengers in the back that get the kick out of it if all goes well, but that sue your arse if all goes wrong. That is when your dear boss holds the paper you signed in front of your local Civil Aviation Agent, walking off with clean hands while at that point, depending on your financial background, should be happy to be rather dead than alive, at least I would want so.