whats hapenning to the twin stars???

[sparx007]

Please can anybody update on the position of FTO's that are using the twin star for meIR training??? i was looking into stapleford for the IR and am keen to learn if they are still using them for IR training???

Sparx

[heli_port]

phone and ask them?

[Nearly There]

I know of one school possibly reverting back to a conventional twin, the problem I believe is parts and warranty work.

If you start an IR on one there is a possibility of it going tech and with parts being in demand there could be a wait or a/c change.

[B2N2]

Source: Avweb.com

May 29, 2008
Diamond: Thielert Was "Grossly Misleading"


By Paul Bertorelli, Editorial Director



In a letter to hundreds of owners stranded by Thielert Aircraft Engines' bankruptcy, Diamond Aircraft accused the firm overseeing the insolvency of intentionally misleading the public and misstating Diamond's policies. Further, said Diamond, because of Thielert's new pricing, the hourly cost of operating its diesel engines has risen from under $13 to about $85, a more than six-fold increase that Diamond says makes the TAE engines "commercially non-viable."

Diamond's letter came in response to a statement earlier this week at the Berlin Airshow by Bruno Kubler, whose German law firm is overseeing the insolvency of Thielert. More than 800 Diamond aircraft are equipped with Thielert diesels, but owners have complained about weak customer service, poor durability and high maintenance costs. Thielert declared bankruptcy last month and Diamond has been struggling to support owners grounded for lack of parts. Thielert is shipping some parts and engines to owners, but at radically increased prices and without warranties. Although Kubler reports that owners are "relieved" to have parts flowing, our checks with owners reveal that not many are buying.

Diamond challenged Kubler's claim that it tried to negotiate "special conditions" with regard to price for purchase of engines and parts. Diamond says its early negotiations with Thielert didn't include price, but only addressed inventory and availability. Moreover, says Diamond, Thielert's list of available parts was too small to be of use to customers. Although Kubler said it submitted "a far reaching proposal" to Diamond for new engines, Diamond counters that it received no such proposal from Thielert and that its own offer to pay materials costs for new parts and engines, with Thielert contributing labor, was ignored.

"Despite Diamond's best efforts to improve the situation," the company's statement said, "TAE's attitude towards product integrity and customer support and service were substandard even prior to the insolvency. The current situation is simply impossible. The customers will ultimately decide the long-term future of TAE, and in the absence of an economically viable product, and of customers who trust the company, any company's future viability may be questionable."


The possible solution:

Located in the same industrial complex south of Vienna alongside Diamond Aircraft, Austro Engine is furiously gearing up to build new aerodiesel engines that will eventually replace Thielert's troubled Centurion line. At the Berlin Air Show this week, Austro displayed the AE 300, a 2-litre powerplant that's an evolutionary improvement over the same Mercedes-Benz engine Thielert used for its Centurions. Austro is working with MBTech, a Mercedes Benz daughter company, to develop the four-cylinder engine and certification is "imminent" according to a report in Flight Global's Flight Daily News this week. Like the Centurion, the AE 300 is a turbocharged, direct-injected diesel engine with high-pressure, common rail technology. But it has 165 HP rather than the Thielert's 135 HP. We're told that the engine has the same relative footprint and is being specifically designed to fit Diamond's DA40 Star and DA42 Twin Star.

Austro will have to overcome several technical problems that have dogged the Thielert engines; chief among them is the requirement to inspect and/or replace the engine's gearbox at 300-hour intervals. Since it runs at the same RPM as the Thielert, the Austro has a reduction gearbox but the Hor Technologie-developed gear set is being initially fielded with an 1800-hour TBO. Further, unlike the Thielert, the Austro has no clutch, but uses a dynamic damper to insulate the prop and gear train from the diesel's sharp power pulses. The Centurion line also encountered cooling system faults that caused cracked cylinder heads. Fuel specifics for the Austro are said to be 20 percent better than the Centurion line, a claim that's consistent with the engine's performance in the Mercedes A-Class economy sedan, which delivers as much 56 MPG on the highway.

The burning question that beached Diamond owners have is: when? Marcus Hergeth, Austro's managing director, told Flight Daily that first deliveries are planned for October of this year. It's not known what production levels are planned.

If Austro's plans pan out, they may complicate short-term efforts to revive Thielert Aircraft Engines. Because Diamond represents the majority of new engine and parts business for Thielert, investors may be reticent to recapitalize a company whose market is overhung by a major competitor who is also a customer. Diamond and the company assigned to oversee Thielert's insolvency, Kubler, have engaged in a bitter war of words over how to restore engine and parts flow to Diamond customers. Last week, Kubler published new parts prices that Diamond called "abusive" and it announced that Thielert would no longer honor its warranty commitments. Meanwhile, more of Diamond's customers go AOG each day as engines come due for gearbox and engine replacements.

[fibod]

Surely, when you buy an aircraft, you buy it complete with engines (and avionics and tyres, etc), and therefore the warranty is with the vendor rather than OEM? As Diamond very publicly offered 2400 hr warranties on the engines they sold with their aircraft, ultimately do they not have to honour those warranties?

[coodem]

Thats what I thought, but since been told it works different in planes. The engine and airframe have 2 seperate warranties.

Makes no sense to me. Imagine if the same were true with our cars. We would need to get bosch, general electric, pagid, ect, ect involved.

I think it should all be 1 warranty, that lies soley with diamond, they should be doing all the running around and paying for it all

[moggiee]

We're still running ours.

Parts are available (but expensive) but at the moment we do NOT plan to go back to conventional aeroplanes (although we have made contingency plans to do that if we have to).

[B2N2]

I think it should all be 1 warranty, that lies soley with diamond, they should be doing all the running around and paying for it all

Well Diamond attempted to do exactly that:

Moreover, says Diamond, Thielert's list of available parts was too small to be of use to customers. Although Kubler said it submitted "a far reaching proposal" to Diamond for new engines, Diamond counters that it received no such proposal from Thielert and that its own offer to pay materials costs for new parts and engines, with Thielert contributing labor, was ignored.

[EK4457]

Hmmm. All sounds a bit 'wishy-washy' to me. Certainly not a stable situation. Which, of course, is the last thing you need when starting the business end of your IR.

Bit of a shame really beacuse it seems a really nice idea on paper. Very cheap to run, glass cockpit, just 2 levers, FADEC etc..... But, you just can't put a price on indefinate delays or having to change A/C type with 7 hours untill your skills test.

Hence the reason for my Gordon Brown style 'U turn' on them.

EK

[Adios]

It doesn't matter which company provides the warranty. When one or both are bankrupt, nobody will be getting parts or repairs. Diamond will almost certainly go to the wall soon if they don't get this solved. Thielert engines are not the answer given their unreliability.

Slapping a 165 HP engine in place of a 135 HP one will have it's own set of problems and getting it tested and certified by October sounds a bit rosy to me.

[moggiee]

Diamond are playing politics with the Thielert receivers and vice versa. As a combined FTO and maintenance organisation, we can get every part needed for a Thielert engine (including complete engines) even though the price is high.

I suspect that Diamond are making noises about poor supply of parts in order to keep down the final sale price for Thielert's assets.

[fibod]

Possible Moggiee, but a risky strategy; how many new aircraft do you think Diamond are selling at the moment? Would you buy one?

[moggiee]

how many new aircraft do you think Diamond are selling at the moment? Would you buy one?
Very few and no chance!

If Diamond are confident about their engine and can finance themselves until the 3rd quarter of the year, they can afford to take that risk. They either get to snap up Thielert cheap or go it alone (or maybe even both!) - win-win if they can survive 3-6 months of almost no sales.