The Turban vs the Helmet

[Not the lawn dart]

Of course, while sorting out the problems of the world in the crew room today, the question was asked:

"What do sikh pilots do if they are required to wear a helmet" (eg. helo/FJ pilots)

-We searched photos on the Indian AF website. No joy.
-We searched on various search engines. No joy.
-All in all, no joy to this important question, which I'm sure many people have scratched their heads about when discussing sikh military aviators.

ps. I might also add that a great number of Sikh servicemen have given amazing service as part of there own military and other colonial military forces, so this is not a pi$$ take. :ok:

[chris_tivver]

Interesting question. I have found this

"A specially designed helmet was worn by Hardit over his turban." taken from

http://www.info-sikh.com/FFPage1.html

which has pictures of various Sikh pilots (at least one of which is by a jet age fighter), none of whom seem to be wearing helmets though

But that does not seem to be a complete answer as the text relates to the pre-jet age so I'm not sure

[cornish-stormrider]

You have seen the episode of only fools and horses haven't you??
They just bought a job lot and sprayed them green.

[Dan D'air]

IIRC, there used to be an Indian guy on RAF SAR. Not sure that he was Sikh though, but you could try asking around.

[Tourist]

Flew a very senior Indian air force Sikh in a sea king and he asked to fly it as he was an ex SK pilot himself. The whole helmet issue was brought up, and he laughed it off saying that Sikhs are allowed to be practical about these things. He was very religiously observant as well.
I remember thinking at the time that all the motorcyclist sikhs had been taking the piss if that was the case.

[zotbox]

I'm sure Monty Panesar will be wearing his helmet at some point this weekend!

[sled dog]

Many moons ago, whilst on detachment in India, had contact with a IAF Hunter squadron. Sikh pilots had their hair pulled up into a ( large ) " top knot ". Bone Dome helmets worn as normal. Easy, really.:cool:

[doubledolphins]

Monty Panesar bats in a helmet and fields in a sun hat. Both worn with out any problems over the black patka. Have never seen a full turban on a sports field. I am sure it is the same in a cockpit. (RN uniform regs do allow a turban to be worn in place of a cap with normal uniform.)

[Roland Pulfrew]

There was a sikh on the country's premier UAS a few years ago. He just wore the helmet without any other head dress. Took a while to get him the standard RAF uniform turban though!! He was a bloody good cook as well - crewroom curry anyone? (in the days before H&SAW).

[uffington sb]

Didn't Flt Lt Singh in 633 Squadron wear a turban?
But then that was just a film and he wasn't a real Sikh.

[Mike Read]

In 1957 at 229 OCU Chivenor we had a course from the Indian Air Force for Hunter conversion. Sqn Ldr Kanvar Singh wore a turban - the only one of about sixteen IAF officers who did. He would slope off into the locker room and return wearing his bone dome. In those days, a blue inner and a hard outer. Then off to fly and a repeat performance in reverse when back in the squadron. But one day the weather clamped and he diverted to St Mawgan. He couldn't go into the mess with his hard hat on so, in the manner of my Dad on the beach he took out a clean white handkerchief and covered his head, tied with knots at each corner. Then into the bar!

One of the others, Flt Lt Harri Bhagat, said that originally the turban was the equivalent of a bone dome for horsemen and that it was time Sikhs flying Hunters joined the twentieth century. But what did he know?

[Mike Read]

Further to my previous post, Kanvar Singh also used a cloth which he rolled his beard up into and tied it with a knot on top of his head. Somehow he managed to use his oxygen mask with all this impedimentia.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Hardit Singh Malik


Shouldn't this be Hardhat Singh Malik?

[SirToppamHat]

Can't say for FJ crews, but during Ex Indra Dhanush last Summer, we hosted IAF Fighter Controllers at Scampton and the question came up of how the Sikhs amongst them would wear headsets. They too took a pragmatic approach, wearing 'lightweight turbans' that covered their heads but without the volume that would have been a problem with a traditional turban.

STH

[Melchett01]

Can't remember the exact details - it's been a long week and my brain gave up hours ago - but we had Indian AF CAS visit us last year, and this was one of the questions that cropped up during planning.

We spoke to the guys in London that were doing the liaising with the Indians and were assured that it wouldn't be a problem. As I said, been a long week, but I don't recall IAF CAS having any dramas when it came to putting a bone dome on prior to flying, and he left a very happy bunny.

Suspect most of them take a fairly pragmatic viewpoint on these things.

[x213a]

I hear the correct drill for a sikh to "off caps" at XO's defaulters can be quite vigourous :}

[effortless]

One of Pa's Mossie mates used getting into the war as an excuse to cut his hair. Apparently, his pa would have cut his thoat if he had done it for any other reason.

[Worf]

Hi all,

I am Sikh and wear a turban and my father retired from the Indian Air Force after 30 years of service. He flew mostly transports (Dakotas & MR Super Constellations) but had a stint in a fighter squadron (Vampire nightfighters) and was a QFI (HT-2s and Harvards). His squadron had a flight of Canberras and he flew them on occasion too.

I have had probably a dozen family members who have been pilots of all kinds in the Indian military (most of them practising and hence turban wearing Sikhs). They flew in the Indian Navy, Army, Air Force, Coastguard etc.

The Indian Air Force has had two Air Chiefs who were turban wearing Sikhs. One was a DFC from the Burma theater and the other was squadron commander of the first transonic (Mystere IV) and first supersonic (MiG-21) squadron in the IAF. The one and only DSO in the Indian Air Force (who happens to be a relative) was also Sikh. The first Sikh Air Chief of Staff (the one with the DFC) is now the only ever Marshal of the Indian Air Force. I make this point to show that Sikh's serve in disproportionate numbers to their population as pilots. An article about Sikh pilots in WWII and before is here (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1940s/Sikhs.html). (And the correct spelling for the first Sikh military aviator is Hardit Singh Malik).

Wearing helmets is never a problem - especially when it involves a mission of a fixed duration. My dad preferred cloth helmets. He took his turban off, placing it in his locker and put his helmet on directly. (He didn't have very long hair - I inherited my mother's hair thank god!). After the sortie, he would come back to the locker and put his turban on. On longer flights he would take his turban with him and do the same whenever he landed.

Some people wear a smaller turban (really a scarf that covers your hair) since it manages the hair better. They then wear the helmet over this inner lining.

My father was very strict about wearing the turban at all times other than when flying, and applied this to all men in his command. He said that it wasn't personal but that the turban was required by the uniform manual at all times except when engaged in flying duties or sports! This included people commuting to work on two wheelers - they were in uniform and hence needed to have turbans on. I think he got this kind of dogma not from any Sikh tradition but from Royal Guards RSM Ealing, who was the "holy terror" during his NDA (joint service Indian equivalent of Cranwell/Sandhurst) days!

I live in the US now and when flying my Christen Eagle or Bonanza (http://pannusflying.*************/)prefer to wear the smaller turban - though I wear the traditional larger turban at most other times. I am a Captain in the Civil Air Patrol (SAR auxiliary of the USAF) and do most of my flying with the small turban.

A friend of mine was on exchange to the USAF as a T-38 instructor, and being Sikh he surprised his hosts with his long hair and beard. He had over a thousand hours on Mig-21s and Mirage-2000s but they were concerned about the oxygen mask not fitting and the helmet flying off. After several high level exchanges at governmental level, he was allowed to fly and performed outstandingly - becoming an examiner on T-38s in a years time.

Of course some things are different for Sikhs. A Sikh test pilot (ETPS trained by the way) inadvertently jettisoned his canopy on a Gnat F.1 and the wind pulled the ejection lanyard out enough to eject him. His comment was "I was very disoriented, and my long hair was flying upwards since my helmet had been jerked off in the sudden wind impact!".

There are certain advantages to turbans for those of you who are ahem.. follicly challenged. My uncle, who was an ETPS test pilot, was a non-practising Sikh (i.e clean shaven) for a long time till he started going bald. He then re-discovered the advantages of having your head covered! (Of course he claims that it was the birth of his children that caused him to re-consider but we know the truth.)

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

WORF

...the correct spelling for the first Sikh military aviator is Hardit Singh Malik.


My apologies. No disrespect intended.

[Worf]

Not a lawn dart,
In response to your request for photographs of Sikh pilots in helmets here (http://www.geocities.com/siafdu/other190.jpg) is a photograph of Air Chief Marshal Dilbagh Singh, one of the two Sikh Air Chiefs of the IAF.

This shows him wearing a helmet when we he was AOC-in-C Western Air Command. He flew the very same MiG-21 (with his name on it) for the Republic Day Parade flypast. If I remember correctly the Mig-21 was painted a deep red. He was well qualified to do so, since he was the Squadron Commander of the first MiG-21 squadron of the IAF and inducted it into the IAF in 1962.

In contrast there is a photograph of him wearing a turban along with his bio on this page (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Air-Chiefs/Chiefs-Air-11.html). In the side panel you can see a photograph of him in a cloth helmet during the 1948 Kashmir operations flying Tempest IIs.

Here (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Current/Fighters/MiG21U/MiG-21p.jpg.html)is another photograph of Sikh pilot being handed his helmet as he prepares to fly on an instructional sortie on a Mig-21UM.

Another photograph of interest is this Sikh pilot (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/Aircraft/Images/Type-77.jpg)with the full pressure suit and helmet in a MiG-21. Note that the Sikh ground crew around him are wearing full turbans.

[Worf]

AARON O'DICKYDIDO,

No offence taken! I am sure I would be equally foxed by some English/Irish/Scottish name pronounciations.

Mike Read,
It may interest you to know that Kanwar Singh retired as Air Commodore from the IAF after a long distinguished service. And the cloth he tied around his beard was a temporary thing in the morning, it pressed down the beard hair so that they were manageable for the rest of the day! Here (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1940s/Images/ArjanHurri01.jpg) is a photograph of Marshal of the Air Force Arjan Singh DFC in Burma during WWII in his Hurricane with aforementioned cloth. Here (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1950s/Images/7Sqn-UK.jpg) is a photograph of the Indian Air Force contingent at Chivenor in 1957. Kanwar Singh is the Sikh officer sitting in the front row.

In Martin Bowman's book Last of the Hunters, there is an account of Kanwar Singh landing a Hunter wheels up after the undercarriage refused to come down and very cooly walking away from the aircraft.

[Lima Juliet]

Are there Turban Mounted Sights for the Su30 MKIs? :}

Sorry couldn't resist...this is not meant as a racist comment and is meant in jest.

LJ :ok:

[panther_chat]

I had a Sikh chap in my company at RMAS and he would wear a bandana in lieu of his turban when required to wear his combat helmet. I'm sure a Sikh pilot could do the same.

[Dan D'air]

One thing that this thread has shown, is that it is perfectly possible for someone with a high level of personal religious belief to adapt to the practicalities of everyday life when the need arises, without compromising their principles in any way.

A lesson that some other members of the community would do well to learn I feel...........

[ORAC]

Gotta be a dangerous job, wot with all those Sikh hitting missiles about.... :}

[Dan D'air]

Surely you mean IR sikhing missiles, ORAC?

And would someone in the Indian Navy fly a Sikhing helicopter?


On a less groany note, IIRC an HMS Antelope PO I used to know used to refer to the missile system aboard as Turban (Sea Cat) :O

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

One thing that this thread has shown, is that it is perfectly possible for someone with a high level of personal religious belief to adapt to the practicalities of everyday life when the need arises, without compromising their principles in any way.

A lesson that some other members of the community would do well to learn I feel


Agreed!
During Rhamadan the question of fasting whilst flying was a hotly discussed topic (SOAF in the 80's) and the responsible, sensible but nonetheless actively religious aviator was given the option to apply flight safety considerations first provided he undertook the period of fasting at a later but safer time.

[Not the lawn dart]

Thanks to all of those who responded to this thread!, particularly Worf.

I'll now sleep better at night knowing that my question has been answered so thoroughly!

Some nice word plays as well, chaps (and chapettes, no doubt). :}

NTLD.