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Farmer George
7th Jan 2017, 14:10
Greetings Danny. Congratulations on all your magnificent contributions to reach this milestone of 10000 posts in this thread.

A few pages ago #9438 you reminded us that you [QUOTE]Never flew the Spitfire Mk. IX - reckoned to be the best of the Merlin Spits - but had a few hundred hours on the Mk. XVI - the exact same thing, but with the Packard Merlin replacing the Rolls-Royce. Couldn't tell the difference.

At Valley, 20 Sqdn, 1950-51. Happy days !

I was there Danny !!! Imagine 6 year old FG on the beach and in the sandhills at Rhosneigr watching you and hooked on aviation for life ! From then on it was the Vampires T11s, a school visit to Valley, model aircraft including my own Keil Kraft Spitfire, magazines and books etc etc. Later CCF ATC (first flight in an Anson at Cottesmore) and from school to an apprenticeship and a career working on VC10, TSR2 (2 weeks before they cancelled it), BAC 1-11, Tornado, Hawk, Typhoon….

Reading through your posts I was delighted to find a mutual acquaintance I met W/Cdr Alex Hindley in India when posted to work on Jaguar. It’s a small world.

This and other PPRuNe threads have been a great help in understanding the world that both my father and my father-in-law lived in WW2 Both passed by the Gateway of India in Bombay in 1942, my father as a Lt RNVR at HMS Sheba, Aden and my wife's father as a Sgt, 565th Field Security Section (Intelligence), RA attached to 33rd Indian Corps. Troop ships, convoys, Indian railways, dress, sickness are all in the threads.

So now I've retired I am back in my late fathers home …under the flightpath to Valley. Thanks Danny

ian16th
7th Jan 2017, 14:16
Danny Congrats.

Dunno about York's carrying coal, but brand new Hastings, straight off the production line, were used to carry coal to Berlin, and they still had coal dust under the floor when they were scrapped!

Union Jack
7th Jan 2017, 14:36
A big BZ, Danny, and very cunningly achieved too, not to mention providing a pleasing similarity with the old joke about Shackletons, although in this case it's "10000 posts flying in loose formation"!:ok:

Jack

MPN11
7th Jan 2017, 14:37
Thanks for breasting the 10k tape for us, dear Danny42C.

We now resume our normal random programming ;)

Brian 48nav
7th Jan 2017, 14:49
I was beginning to get worried that Danny would miss the 10,000th.

Well done Danny! Thank goodness you found this thread 5 years ago - you have inspired us all with your wit and amazing memory. Long may they continue.

Chugalug2
7th Jan 2017, 15:16
I would like to add my best wishes and congratulations to our revered Chief Pilot. Danny you have, with a combination of modesty and determination, made this thread into the unique inclusive multi tiered ramble through history, geography, and memories that it has become.

All have been welcome, all may contribute, and we have all become the richer for it. Our virtual crew room has become packed, yet by its very nature it can always accommodate all comers. Well done, Sir, and here's to the next 1000!

Geordie_Expat
7th Jan 2017, 16:48
What can I add to what has already been said !


Well done Danny and thank you.

R145S
7th Jan 2017, 21:21
Congrats Danny. I'm just a reader of the forum and only on page 209 at the moment. I really enjoy the posts and you can't beat reading personal stories of lives and experiences of everyone who posts on this forum.

Delighted to see you're still posting away and long may it continue. Roll on 11000 :-) Looking forward to catching up.

Danny42C
8th Jan 2017, 16:04
To all my well-wishers.

My sincere thanks to all for the congratulatary Posts sent in about me. But I've always regarded having this Thread to scribble in as a privilege to be grateful for. How many old "mute inglorious Miltons" must there have been, who've gone to the grave without a hearer for the marvellous stories they were itching to tell - but with nobody to listen !

Now let us join in welcoming Farmer George (#10002) and R14SS (#10009), aboard this Prince of Threads and hunt around in our infinitely extensible Nissen cyber-crewroom for another couple of ricketty chairs for them to perch on - while they listen avidly to the Wisdom of the Ages, which is always on tap round the smoky old coke stove (chimney pipe glowing dull red) and defy the freezing weather outside !

FG, so I had a secret, small admirer watching me as the 20 Sqn Spitfires trundled in and out of Valley ? ('Y Fali', I'm told). Did you ever hear of the Spitfire wheel which fell off as a chap got airborne from 19 (?), and did an unbelievable amount of damage in Rhosneigr (judging by the claims on MOD !) There being no ready market for Spitfire wheels in Anglesey, we got the wheel back and were able to find cause of the bother.

Or hear about the Beauty Competition (ca '50) which went badly wrong - but such matters wouldn't interest a six year old but the Lead Soldier Man (a year later) was right up your street. And did did you ever see a little green Bond Minicar (Google) - only one on island - buzzing about ? (sometimes with the then 'squeeze' - Ann Pearce [Bangor], where are you now ?) That was me !

Bit hazy about r/ws, as I remember, we always used 19/01 all the time, was a small short E-W r/w, landed a Vampire there once in teeth of a howling gale one day, no trouble. Looks as if they've built a long 14/32 for the Hawks.

Yes, Alex Hindley was the best of bosses, went to India and grew very rich, but came to a sad end, I'm afraid (reported by old friend Flt Lt Niel (sic) Ratan Ker (RIP). No use raking up now).

Memories, memories !

Danny.

Geriaviator
8th Jan 2017, 16:28
Welcome Farmer George! While you were watching Danny & Co. at Valley in 1951-52 another little lad was watching the Brigands, Hermes, Argonauts, Dakotas and Constellations at RAF Khormaksar, Aden. Our account of a very different boyhood there began with #3515 p176. Thanks for reminding me of HMS Sheba, the Royal Navy's base at Steamer Point, whence came a couple of our classmates at Khormaksar School.

There were only a couple of RN families and their children returned home to Steamer Point after school, a source of regret to them as they could not be full-time members of the pestilential Khormaksar Kids, but of great relief to their parents (as in: “Have you heard what those bloody kids have done NOW?”)

Ian16 reminds me of our trip home from Aden in a Hastings: Boys wore shorts in those days and as we headed north I began to feel an icy blast across my legs. The double doors alongside were battered and I could see through the one-inch gap along the bottom. Dad said the Hastings had been used on the Berlin airlift and like the Dakotas and Yorks had taken a battering.

JW411
8th Jan 2017, 16:53
Danny:

I was at Valley on the Vampire T11 in 1961. I was sent off on a solo sortie one day and was briefed to finish up with a flapless landing. Most of the time the runway in use was 20 but right at the end they swapped to 26 (the short runway). Like the idiot student that I was I landed fast with no flaps and realised, rather late in the day, that the sea was approaching rapidly. I got away with it (just) and I never made that mistake again.

Fareastdriver
8th Jan 2017, 18:57
Young FED nearly dug a hole on the short runway at Oakington. It was a formation sortie and the normal T/O procedure for a three ship was a pair getting airborne in formation with the third at five seconds. In this case I was the only stude as an instructor was flying No3 on staff continuation. This being so we were going to do a Vic takeoff.

We lined up on the short runway and got under way. I had never flown off the short runway before and I was a bit concerned as we crossed the intersection with notta lot of airspeed on. The leader then surged ahead as he opened up to full chat instead of the 500 rpm flex that we had to maintain position. I didn't lose much distance and as his wheels left the ground the surface changed from tarmac to grass. Luckily I was good at formation flying which is why all three of us managed to fit inside the gap in the trees at the airfield boundary.

There was a bit of inter-instructor bitching when we landed as No 3 pointed out that formation take offs were prohibited on the short runway.

Didn't do him any harm; he later led the Red Arrows.

ricardian
8th Jan 2017, 20:02
Geriaviator (pp Rupert Parkhouse #9992),

Better than coal, it seemed; I believe the Yorks could never get rid of the coal dust.

Did the Sunderlands land in the Havel lake ?

Recalls the US Skymasters going into Tempelhof, where the second dickies would open the side window on long finals, and toss out a load of 'Hershey' bars (one at a time !) to the eager crowd of Berlin children below (didn't Hershey, when they heard of this, supply the chokkies free for the purpose ? (through the PX, I suppose).

Danny.
Several of the Hastings of LXX Sqn at Akrotiri in the mid 1960s still had coal dust lurking in various bits of their interiors

Geriaviator
9th Jan 2017, 14:28
The memoirs of Sqn Ldr Rupert Parkhouse, recorded in 1995 – Part 24. First post in this series is #9775 on page 489 of this thread.

ON JOINING 201 Sqn I was very inexperienced, most of my flight lieutenants had many more hours than I had, but they were very kind and tolerant and I had an excellent wing commander (flying) in Stan Baggott and a sympathetic station commander, Dick Shenton.

With the admin duties and being transferred to ops rooms for exercises I found it very difficult to get as much flying as I wanted. On July 26 I had to take off heavily loaded on a special exercise at night when I hit my aircraft's float on a buoy, the float collapsed into the port aileron, and we had quite a dicy time sorting out the aeroplane. I sometimes wonder … if I had not had the very experienced Canadian Flt Lt Hutchinson with me to sort out the aircraft, I was so shocked that I didn't know what the hell to do.

I don't remember doing it, but at the moment of impact I must have pulled the throttles back. The engineer in the back, Flt Lt Barclay, shouted that the revs were down and we might be near the stall. Hutchinson, who was in the right (second pilot's) seat, came on the intercom and said 'Christ, who pulled those throttles back?' We immediately opened the engines again and we were all right. I eventually landed the aircraft but had I not had an experienced crew who virtually told me what to do we could have been in a very sorry state.
Rupert's recordings finish at this point. His son told me that the Sunderland incident resulted in a Court of Inquiry, after which had a pretty torrid time. “The fact that he made such a fundamental error of throttling back after they hit the buoy meant he lost his nerve for flying duties and he transferred to the Admin Branch - where his uniform bedecked with wings did not sit well with the "admin wallahs" he was working with - he was neither fish nor fowl! “

Rupert's last flight as a pilot was in a Sunderland, taking his log book to 913 hrs 20 min. It seems that he found staff work much more to his liking, especially his early posting to the US where he made many friends and perhaps achieved more via social contacts than can sometimes be achieved through formal diplomatic channels. The irreverent colonials of Washington re-titled him as Parking Leader Squawkhurst.

On return to the UK in 1956 Rupert held various SAdO appointments at stations such as MoD, Kenley, Biggin Hill (aircrew selection), Bomber Command at High Wycombe, El Adem in Libya (1963). He left the RAF early in about 1974 and then worked for the Business Equipment Trade Association and George Wimpey, the builders, where he finished his working life as an architectural administrator. He retired in about 1987 and, aged 95, lives in a Bournemouth nursing home with his wife Rosemary.

It has been a privilege to prepare this long series from Rupert's recordings, for it is clear that he was scarred for life by his experiences. His son says that in latter years he called himself a "passed over two and a half" and that is where he stayed. He was very disappointed in his career, but the one benefit of his vascular dementia is that he has been released from all his historical baggage and is as happy as he has ever been.

Danny42C
9th Jan 2017, 15:05
Geriaviator (pp Rupert Parkhouse #10015),
...most of my flight lieutenants had many more hours than I had, but they were very kind and tolerant and I had an excellent wing commander (flying) in Stan Baggott and a sympathetic station commander, Dick Shenton...
Where was this Shangri-La ? Can I be posted there, please ?.....please ? What's the MQ situation ? Any good local pubs ?
... The irreverent colonials of Washington re-titled him as Parking Leader Squawkhurst...
Children can be so cruel.......
..."passed over two and a half"...
Ah, the "Feast of the Passover !" Join the Club ! Better than being a two ring neverwozzer !

Seriously, I hope you will convey all our sympathies to Mrs Parkhouse when next you see her. I lost a brother-in-law (wartime RAF Fitter) that way last month and know how his wife Leny has suffered in his last years.

Makes two brothers-in-law and my darling wife gone in a single year.
Send not for whom the bell tolls.........

But thank you, Geriaviator, for telling us his story so vividly.

Danny.

Farmer George
9th Jan 2017, 16:59
Danny

Many thanks for your warm welcome to this thread in post #10010. I checked our family photo albums - no Spitfire wheel sized holes in roofs and no Bond Minicar to be seen.

They are using 01/19 for all flying at the moment while they rebuild 14/32. It has taken a year but in March I will be seeing the traffic again over my house, which is on the extended centre line of 32. Bring it on !

W/Cdr Hindley was very kind to me as a first time visitor to India. I well remember a large gin and tonic in his traditional style colonial bungalow. The talk with his family was all about the casting of tens of thousands of extras for the film Gandhi, which his wife/daughter ? was involved with.

FG

Farmer George
9th Jan 2017, 18:36
Geriaviator

Thanks for your welcome to the thread and your memories of Aden, which I have read in the past year. I have been trying for some time to write up my father's WW2 experiences. It’s a case of .. why didn't you talk to him more when he was alive… I have many of the letters he wrote home from Aden 1942 - 1944 but of course the need to remove anything the censor would not like means they give little information. One question I do have was from another blog … a Catalina was droning over the harbour doing circuits and bumps. Where was the landing area ? in the inner harbour ? and was there a flying boat slipway on to RAF Khormaksar ? The Catalina was very important to my father, as he told me when I , age about 15, was making my Airfix model, "a Catalina saved my life", but he never wanted to talk about "his" war. Only now thanks to the internet have I got together the story. When I've written it up I hope to post it on PPRune.

FG

MPN11
9th Jan 2017, 19:21
Thanks from me too, Geriaviator, for the substantial effort you have put into telling Rupert's story here.

As to his career? Well, not everyone is going to be CAS or a famous Test pilot, let alone a Stn Cdr. At least he had the honour and privilege of wearing the Pilot's Flying Badge, which is more than most have achieved. And he served, and did his various duties, and no organisation can function properly without a competent and committed Administrator in the system.

I'm probably grateful, in my more reflective moments, that I was binned from flying very early on ... I'm quite sure I would have killed myself, and anyone else unfortunate enough to be with me!

Danny42C
10th Jan 2017, 18:05
MPN11 (#10019),
...I was binned from flying very early on ... I'm quite sure I would have killed myself, and anyone else unfortunate enough to be with me!...As I recall the circumstances, you do yourself an injustice. In my book the Navy gave you a very raw deal indeed. Too much water under the bridge now, of course; what's done is done and cannot be undone.

And, in my case, I was surprised, at the end of Primary School in Florida, when my instructor told me he had recommended for me the (single engine) future training I wished (what boy, in summer 1941, would not want to be a "Spitfire" pilot ?). Why the opinion was sought at that stage, and not at the end of (still all s/e) Basic School, I do not know and cannot think.

Years later a Wise Old Owl advanced a theory: From almost the first two weeks, when the USAAC "chopped" about 40% of our boys, it is possible to pick (from the survivors who would almost all go on to "wings") the ones likely to take a chance too far one day. := Keep them on single seaters - then they will only kill themselves !

The more careful ones you recommend for a twin Advanced School: they will be more likely to go on to multis and keep their crews alive. :ok: Not very flattering to us - but there you go !

And it lends credence to the story told me just after the war. Aer Lingus (?) was interviewing candidates. "In our opinion", they said, "single engine flying is not flying, and single engined flying time is not flying time". They were not alone in that view. :sad:

Danny.

Gentlemen, today is the 10th.

Fareastdriver
10th Jan 2017, 18:20
Gawd! Mess bills!

MPN11
10th Jan 2017, 18:21
Danny, mon vieux, I might have made Multi (at least in my head!) but (a) I would still have to be competent on singles, and (b) the RN was a bit poorly equipped with multis :)

Taking your third paragraph, I found it very interesting when the OH was a flt cdr at IOT. I used to attend all the sicial functions (and other events*) as The Boss's Wife. After the first week's Meet and Greet, I used to seal in an envelope the list of names of those who would probably graduate from her Flight. I was never far wrong. And, for the record, we NEVER discussed that aspect of her work.

Question 1: "Would you wish to sit opposite this person at breakfast?" ;)


* Long 'cross-country walks', DS 'Sniper' on Exercises, etc. Otherwise I would just have sat at home, alone! :)

Wander00
10th Jan 2017, 19:31
MPN11 - I once suggested to the officer Robson (he gp capt me low mileage re-tread flt) that as an economy measure, and given the correlation between what other halves wrote on the slips in the envelope we could gave


Day1 Arrival
Day 2 Meet and Creep
Day 3 Studes talk amongst themselves
Day4 Open envelopes and print Graduation List
Day 5 Grad Parade


his reply was unprintable, but he saw the joke

MPN11
11th Jan 2017, 08:58
haha ... Robson was an interesting character, to say the last, but seemed on my casual acquaintance to be a nice chap.

Geriaviator
11th Jan 2017, 10:08
Danny #10020 hits the nail on the head as usual:
Years later a Wise Old Owl advanced a theory: From almost the first two weeks ... it is possible to pick the ones likely to take a chance too far one day. Keep them on single seaters - then they will only kill themselves ! Rupert Parkhouse wrote:
the list of postings went up with much laughter and guffaws when we found who was posted onto Fairey Battles, and who had got onto fighters or heavy bombers. People thought the indifferent pilots were going onto Battles where if they had a crash they wouldn't kill too many as well as themselves. And some years back the great Reg Levy told us that he transferred from Mosquitos to Halifaxes because he foresaw a big demand for civil aviation after the war, and the airlines would be seeking four-engine, not fighter pilots.

Chugalug2
11th Jan 2017, 10:42
Geriaviator, thank you for telling us Rupert Parkhouse's story. The abiding impression is of a decent man who carried the angst of his aviation experiences throughout his life, until mercifully released by mental oblivion. One might say that this was war and its aftermath and that at least he survived, but I feel he was let down by those who let themselves be persuaded to overcome their professional judgement and allowed him onto raids or types that his inexperience and inability should have been denied him.

This seems particularly true of those SOs that he got to know in POW camps. No doubt they shared his feelings of lost time to be made up, that he deserved a chance to prove himself, and no doubt he was a convincing advocate for his own case. But aviation is unforgiving of such empathy and usually rewards it with fatal consequences. It is a wonder that he survived, but he was clearly not unscathed.

The emergence of the RAF Flight Safety system in the 60s is usually ascribed to such factors as the Meteor accident rate, but having read Rupert's story I wonder how many others were like him but died as a result? Square pegs in professionally round holes. Just as important as the Flight Safety system was that of CFS and the QFIs it turned out. The flying training chop rate in the 60s was something feared and loathed by those threatened by it, but how many Ruperts were spared his troubled life, how many lives saved by being so chopped? Unsafe pilots are unsafe in any cockpit, single or multi. The system failed him in my view.

Geriaviator
11th Jan 2017, 11:27
Farmer George (#10018) we shall all look forward to your father's story, I know that seeking it out is an emotional experience and I too have often asked myself why didn't you talk to him more when he was alive?

The Khormaksar Kids eagerly spotted everything that flew around Aden 1951/52, down to the scavenging kite-hawks, but I never saw a Catalina and I don't know if there was a beaching ramp. There was an extensive RAF Marine Unit near Maala village about halfway between Khormaksar and Steamer Point but flying-boat ops were not mentioned. I wonder how the Sunderlands staged to the Far East, where they served until the late 1950s?

Chug, I agree with all you say, and I wonder how many others were scarred as deeply as though they had been hit by shrapnel, just as too many Service personnel are today. And that's before the ambulance-chasing lawyers get after them … but I'd better stop at this point before I raise the crewroom's collective blood pressure. :*

Danny42C
11th Jan 2017, 16:00
Farmer George (#10002),
...A few pages ago #9438 you reminded us that you [QUOTE]Never flew the Spitfire Mk. IX - reckoned to be the best of the Merlin Spits...
A Strange Thing: After joining 20 Sqn, following a shaming First Solo on a TM, I soloed a Vampire (piece of cake in comparison) on 31st March, but in my log for April '50 I have:

(17th) "Spitfire IX.... TD254.....C & B.
(18th) "Spitfire IX.....TB379.... Sector Recce.
(27th) "Spitfire IX.....TD254.....Circuits & aerobatics.

and May:
(1st).."Spitfire IX......TB379......aerobatics.
interspersed with a single Spitfire XVI RW351. I would certainly have known the difference - or had it sharply pointed out to me if I didn't !

Even though I had summarised the totals for each Mark separately, these were countersigned by my Flight and Squadron Commanders without comment at the month end.

All the rest of my Spitfires (at Valley) in the next 18 months were logged as XVIs - But TD 254 reappears as a XVI !

So, did Danny fly a XI or did he not ?

Danny.

PS: Does it matter ?

Box Brownie
11th Jan 2017, 16:17
According to Morgan and Shacklady, it was a MkXV1 Danny. Delivered from 19MU on 12-3-45 and sold off 13-6-56

Danny42C
11th Jan 2017, 16:22
Geriaviator (#10027),
... I too have often asked myself why didn't you talk to him more when he was alive? ...
This has often been said !
But it wasn't as easy as that. I opened a Thread on "Mil.Avn":

... 20th Jan 2016, 01:58...Dad never said much about the war when he came back.

Ran to a few pages. Read, learn and inwardly digest ! as we used to say.

Danny.

Danny42C
11th Jan 2017, 16:48
Geriaviator (pp Rupert Parkhouse, #10015),
...I don't remember doing it, but at the moment of impact I must have pulled the throttles back...
In a moment of panic, you do strange things. It is likely that the Middleton Ghost's last living thought, having landed a Meteor on one and realised he was far too fast to stop on the MSG runway, was: "I'll have to 'go around' - and tried !

We all know what happened to him. Cpl Jones was right: "Don't Panic !"

Do not try this at home (or ever !)

Danny.

Geriaviator
14th Jan 2017, 14:59
https://s20.postimg.org/c1jz7swq5/pilot_prone.jpg

Pilot PPrune, meet Pilot PProne!

As speeds rose during the mid-40s aviation began to look for ways of overcoming G-forces which caused pilots to black out while manoeuvring. This was an American test rig of 1949 and does not look very comfortable to me. Our several ex-Meteor drivers will remember the prone-pilot Meteor with a lengthened nose to accommodate the pilot on his tummy. It wasn't a success because the pilot could neither look behind him nor eject, both disadvantages to any fighter. I believe this unique Meteor is preserved at IWM Cosford Museum.

Box Brownie
14th Jan 2017, 15:52
Flt. Lt John Dunbar DFC (RIP) Five into four won't go

Taken from three tapes. This account from the third 'missing' tape

Continued after a break from P479 – with apologies!

At one stage we were based on an airfield along with an American squadron of Dakotas. There were bods coming in at nought feet from all directions so I went over to their admin tent to have a conversation. I said to this guy “Look, someone is going to get hurt. Can you at least get your guys to conform to a circuit pattern?” He didn't really understand what I was saying and said “You had better talk to Jackie Coogan” I said “Who?” “Well, he's one of the pilots, one of the boys you are complaining about. I would like you to meet him”. He went to the end of the tent and yelled “Jackie” and in comes Jackie Coogan.
At this time we were going through a very nasty spell when we were landing in a place that was under attack by the japs and there were a lot of casualties to get out. Although our prime job was not casualty evacuation, there were occasions when they couldn't cope when the casualties were too much and this was one such occasion. I can remember going to a briefing where there was very sketchy information on the jap situation and as we walked away there were two American pilots just ahead of me. One tells the other “ I'm going to go in there right on the deck, in fact I'm going to to stay right on the deck from take off until the time I get back” The other chap said it sounded like a good idea. I thought, I'm going to watch this. They were flying down the river, the Irrawady, they both bought it. The japs used to string wires across the river.
We had captured Meiktila two months before the monsoon started. and needed to get to Rangoon by May 5th otherwise we would be in real trouble. Everything was flown and dropped to us, even the petrol for our aircraft. Also water because the japs poisoned all water sources. For the last month of the war we were on one eighth rations, one pint of water per day per man, all except the Americans. We got to the stage where flying all day feeding was becoming a problem. A Group Captain somewhere had a word with the Army and they agreed to give us a cook. So this cook Arrives. “Hello corporal. Nice to have you with us. Now can you cook?” It turned out he had never cooked in his life!
The dash to Meiktila was the worst month of my life. Once we were there the japs were still around the edge of the field. It took 28 days to clear the surrounding jungle. As we took off or landed they were able to fire at us. I tried various techniques, but soon settled on approaching just inches above the the ground. After we had captured Meiktila everyone was on a high from the General down, and I was asked to fly him to Yamatain, a town some 30 or 40 miles south of Meiktila, for a conference with his divisional commanders. We landed on the strip and there were his commanders by a jeep with maps spread on the bonnet and I was once again very lucky to be privy to the discussions of how the army were going to take Rangoon. Amusingly, they were even arguing as to whose turn it was to lead.
Just as the decision was being made on the disposition of the British forces there was the crack of a rifle shot and a bullet whistled acrossthe little gathering. Ginger Dunbar, who was not trained in ground warfare and who considered it nothing to with him, dived face first into a slit trench, trying to appear dignified. A burst of machine gun fire was followed by a 'plop' as a sniper fell out of a tree. I crawled out of the trench, trying to be dignified. Suddenly I noticed that not one of the commnders had moved and they were carrying on with their discussions. General Messervy just looked at me, and I felt that I had gone down in his estimation and let the Air Force down.
An ADC to General Messervey was Major Bob Nottingham who had been severely wounded and suffered from shell shock. Really he should have been sent home. What Messervey did was to make his ADC to keep him safe. We had captured a jap HQ which had a lake nearby and of course there was a small boat. On the way back the General mentioned that on take off he had noticed Bob “ He's got MY boat on MY lake. I want you to dive on him and put the fear of god in him”

Box Brownie
14th Jan 2017, 15:52
As I approched the lake there was the boat in the middle. I did what I thought, bearing in mind the rank and importance of my passenger, was a fairly daring beat-up of the boat. This was in the middle of a war. As I pulled up Messervey was jumping around in his seat saying “You've got to go lower. He's still in it”. He goaded me into making one more pass, even lower. In the boat Bob was standing up shaking a fist at me when it dawned on him just how low we were. He flung himself overboard.. Messervey went bananas saying, jumping up and down in his seat “ I just can't wait! I just can't wait. That will teach him! Thank you Ginger”.

Danny42C
14th Jan 2017, 20:59
Box Brownie,

The things you can do when you have a General sitting behind you (in all senses) ! But if he'd "put it in the drink" and the General had not survived, he'd be rather poorly placed !

Danny.

Danny42C
15th Jan 2017, 16:50
Box Brownie (pp John Dunbar DFC [RIP] #10033),
...the crack of a rifle shot and a bullet whistled across the little gathering. Ginger Dunbar, who was not trained in ground warfare and who considered it nothing to with him, dived face first into a slit trench, trying to appear dignified. A burst of machine gun fire was followed by a 'plop' as a sniper fell out of a tree. I crawled out of the trench, trying to be dignified. Suddenly I noticed that not one of the commnders had moved and they were carrying on with their discussions. General Messervy just looked at me, and I felt that I had gone down in his estimation and let the Air Force down...
They teach 'em that at Sandhurst !. And I once read years ago somehere or other of a historian of WWI, who'd worked out that, for every man killed or wounded in that conflict by rifle calibre bullet, 700 rounds had been fired (MGs would be responsible for a lot of that, I suppose). So they were good odds.

But Ginger was safe - you never hear the shot that kills you (so I'm told), so if he heard it he was all right. Diving into Burmese ditches not recommended - you come out covered in leeches !

When all said and done, no sense in swanning about on quarterdeck like Nelson, when someone's taking potshots at you.

Danny.

Box Brownie
15th Jan 2017, 16:58
Indeed Danny. As we shall see soon, conditions in the jungle have a cumulative effect.

Chugalug2
16th Jan 2017, 08:03
JD (c/o BB):-
They were flying down the river, the Irrawaddy, they both bought it. The japs used to string wires across the river.

I'm sure that came as a surprise! Given the woeful Japanese supply system, presumably these wires were obtained locally (cut down power lines?). They would have had to be reasonably substantial to achieve the required outcome, so rigging them up across that wide river would have been no mere feat. I wonder if it was corroborated or merely conjecture? Flying at ultra low height along a river lined with enemy troops would be very unwise anyway I would have thought, wires or no wires!

Jackie Coogan would of course have been quite a celebrity in those days, though less so today perhaps. He played the kid in Chaplin's film, The Kid. Interestingly, and a lot of people don't know this (well OK, me!), he was also Uncle Fester in The Adams Family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Coogan

For the last month of the war we were on one eighth rations, one pint of water per day per man, all except the Americans.

No change there then. I wonder if they shared out their excess rations. As the man standing in line for a job as a desperado in Blazing Saddles was asked (when seen to be chewing gum), "I hope that you've brought enough for everyone?". He was of course shot dead when it was found that was not the case.

Good to have you and John Dunbar back again, BB!

Box Brownie
16th Jan 2017, 10:27
Thank you for the welcome back Chug - appreciated. If only John were still here to answer the questions. He only ever wanted the rescue told and to see his face when the story appeared in Aeroplane was a real pleasure. On a visit to an aircraft restoration workshop in Watton I spotted a pair of wings high up and asked what they were from and was taken aback to be told they were from an L5
Having told the owner the story of John's time in Burma he kindly let me have a wing rib. The rib remained on the living room wall of John's bungalow until he passed away.

Danny42C
16th Jan 2017, 13:48
Chugalug (#10038),

Scabrous story told at the time about Col "Jackie" Coogan (for which I cannot vouch, and for which I bear no responsibility): He was reputed to introduce himself with the words "Shake the hand that held the c**k that f*****d Betty Grable !" (pin-up forces sweetheart of the time to whom he was married, her legs said to have been insured by Paramount (?) for a million dollars).

Don't believe it for a moment (he was a Glider pilot, btw, "Merrill's Marauders" stuff).

Never heard the "wires across rivers" tale when I was out there. There are a lot of rivers in Burma, would need an awful lot of wire. Don't think so.

Only time we flew really low was on the getaway after a dive. The closer you are to the tree tops, the less time there is for any one Jap squaddie to see you and draw a bead on you. Even so, they often punched a neat hole or two in us. Good deflection shooting, as we would've been tramping along with most of the 300 mph picked up in the dive. Never did serious harm AFAIK.

BB, thank you for the John Dunbar saga. Keep it up !

Danny.

Box Brownie
16th Jan 2017, 14:01
Danny, that exactly what he said to John! I have it on tape. Even though I doubt if many ladies visit this section of Prune, I decided to leave it out.

Wish I had put it in now.

Box Brownie
16th Jan 2017, 14:04
Flt Lt John Dunbar DFC RIP

Taken from three tapes Five into four won't go

Earlier I mentioned Dave Proctor, one of life's characters. At the end of the war along with three others, I was sent to Rangoon where we were going to fly L5's off aircraft carriers on the invasion of Singapore to aid the forward troops. Two days after I left, apparently Dave's demob came through though the message had not got to him. Dave did one more trip and two days later I received a message to say that he was in a field hospital at Meiktila. The story is he was coming back and no one knows why, he crashed into the jungle. Luckily he was seen by some army bods who managed to get through to him and get him, unconscious, out of the wreckage. They put him in a jeep and drove him fifty miles through the jungle tracks not knowing that his back was broken.
I can remember going down to the flying field at Mingladonand asking “What is the fastest aircraft that you have lying around?” They pointed to a Spitfire but I said I couldn't fly one and was then pointed to a Harvard. It was a good 200 miles. I got up there and of course knew Meiktila well.
Having found the field hospital I went to the Chief Medical Officer and said I was F/O Proctor's ex CO and said “Tell me, how is he?” “ Oh, he's ok. There is a really nasty head wound but he will recover. We are waiting for a Dakota to fly him out to India where he can get some decent treatment.” I asked if I could see him and was told yes but that he was a bit delirious.
I went in and Dave was just lying on a strip. His first words were “ My aching back” and I said
“You xxxx bxxxxxd – the moment I leave you , you go and write off a plane again.” Again he said “My aching back” and I said “Thank Christ you haven't lost your sense of humour”. “ I mean it Ginger. My back is broken but they won't believe me” I was wondering if I should say something and decided to do so. I went back to Medical Officer and said “ Look, he's telling me his back is broken.” This chap almost brushed me off. I said “Look, if Dave Proctor tells me his back is broken it is broken! I want something done about it.” To cut a long story short, his back was broken in two places. They flew him back to England and he was three years in the Loughborough rehab centre. You remember he had pleaded with me to be taken to Burma as his brother was missing there. All of the time we were there he would disappear at night. You never saw the Burmese, it was jungle. He would go into the villages and try to get a lead on his brother, but he never did. He married his brothers widow. They did divorce but he educated both his brothers sons and put them through university before emigrating to New Zealand. A truly remarkable man.

Geriaviator
17th Jan 2017, 13:55
https://s23.postimg.org/k7gn8cznv/stinson_l5.jpg

To support this fascinating account of Stinson ops in Burma and India, here's a fine picture of a Stinson L5 on casevac operations, showing the long side door which hinges down so the stretcher can fit down the fuselage. The L5 had a six-cylinder 190 horsepower Lycoming O-435, more powerful than the contemporary Austers used by the Army Air Corps, and was also shorter – hence the very large empennage. Stinson seems to have got it right as the post-war Auster AOP9 looks almost like a copy.

Danny42C
17th Jan 2017, 16:09
Box Brownie (#10041),

The Ladies (and they were every inch "Ladies") of that generation were made of sterner stuff. They knew (as Kipling put it:

"Single men in barricks
Don't grow into plaster saints"

Grandmas delivered Lancasters (in ATA), and thought nothing of it. What Col Coogan said would not faze them.

Danny.

Edit:...(#10042)A truly remarkable man...They don't make 'em like that any more.....but maybe they do.

D.

Box Brownie
17th Jan 2017, 19:06
I was in our hangar at Kemble about three years ago, no one around.
Walking towards me was a guy on artificial legs. I was able to put him in our static Spitfire. This quiet and thoughtful chap was ex-army. As he sat in the cockpit we spent some time talking. He was a remarkable man

A very humbling experience

Molemot
18th Jan 2017, 09:50
Facebook reminded me this morning that today is the birthday of our founding father, C. F. Leach...aka Cliffnemo. He lives on in cyberspace.....and his thread endures.

Geriaviator
18th Jan 2017, 09:54
Following BB's postings I'm really interested in the Stinson though it's unlikely I shall get my hands on one now. This old report is the next best thing: Pirep: Stinson L-5 (http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepStinsonL-5.html)
I particularly liked this quote:
The ambulance models also have one of the more hysterical military placards you'll run across. It states, "Intentional spinning with litter patients is prohibited." Makes you wonder what ambulance pilots had been doing to fight boredom when returning with a casualty, doesn't it?

Danny42C
18th Jan 2017, 10:04
Box Brownie (#10045),

Pity your chap wasn't Air Force - just think how much extra "G" he could stand ! (believe that was also the case for Group Captain Sir Douglas Bader [RIP], CBE, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar, FRAeS, DL ).

Static Spitfire Hoary Old Shaggy Dog Story:

Visiting Brigadier is being shown over a Spit. "But where", quoth he, "does the NCO sit ?" Gently explained that there is no NCO aboard.

"WHAT !" (horrified) - "do you actually mean to tell me that you allow an Officer to operate this without an experienced NCO to advise ?"

Can't vouch for this.

Danny.

Union Jack
18th Jan 2017, 11:19
And here's the Submarine Service version from WWI in Punch cartoon form!


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RTL7O8IMFZ0C&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&dq=some+sort+of+sergeant+johnny.+who+knows+about+these+thing s&source=bl&ots=_zcO6NcNBU&sig=1vAzR0pLR6i660niwRzs-y5AxcY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH4q3q0MvRAhULBMAKHcFWDSoQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=some%20sort%20of%20sergeant%20johnny.%20who%20knows%20abou t%20these%20things&f=false

Jack

Reader123
18th Jan 2017, 11:49
I'm sure you've told that tale before, Danny, thought it may have been somebody else, but last time the punchline was "Do you mean you don't have a man to drive it for you..."

pettinger93
18th Jan 2017, 11:56
My son is currently a serving officer in Royal Navy submarines and reports that not much has changed from the WW1 cartoon and comments mentioned by Union Jack. Submarines and surface ships still have very different cultures, it seems.

Danny42C
18th Jan 2017, 13:28
Reader 123 (#10050),

Very likely ! Put it down to Short Term Memory Loss (afflicts the aged).

Danny.

MPN11
19th Jan 2017, 11:40
Oh, bloody hell ... what a nasty quirk of timing. :(

Box Brownie
19th Jan 2017, 12:35
That is truer than you realise MPN 11 I have missed out a chunk! Now looking for it.

Box Brownie
19th Jan 2017, 12:38
Flt Lt John Dunbar DFC Five into four won't go

Taken from three tapes.

At the end of the war I flown 228 hrs operationally over the jungle Interestingly, of 176 aircrew forced down in the enemy controlled areas or in jungle in Allied territory, 166 were lost without trace. I was flying in Batavia in the Dutch East Indies when I was told that the following day I would be going to Kuala Lumpur to again be the personal pilot of General Messervy who was now GOC Far East. I had flown him about fifty times in the L5 but this time it would be in the Beech Expiditor.
On arrival I was greeted by his adjudant and was told Messervy was in meeting, but we would
be flying the following morning as the General wished to go to Singapore – an 8 o'clock take off. We were told not to worry as the General liked pilots. Little did the adj know!
I was introduced to W/O Jimmy Rainbow who was to be my navigator. He had been on 177Sqadron flying Beaufighters. We were told to be standing under the nose of the aircraft to await his arrival.
We get to the dipersal area the following morning and there are what appears to be hundreds of soldiers lined up. There is this enormous parade to see Messevy off and standing next to the aircraft is the RAF contingent which consists of the AOC, x number of Air Commadores and Group Captains all now standing to attention. I hadn't been introduced to any of them, didn't know any of them, I was just the pilot.
Messervy had commandeered a bloody great Packard that the Japanese had used during the war and appears complete with outriders, a very posh peacetime General. He is looking out and he sees me. This is a true story and if you told an army bod he wouldn't believe you. He leant forward, tapped his driver on the shoulder and the car stopped, he gets out and almost half runs across the tarmac. He puts his arms round me “Ginger!” This a General to a Flt Lt. *The Air Commodores and the Group Captains were apoplectic. He then went through every pilot by christian name asking how they were, just the three of us together. He then went to the AOC and I heard him say “ Sorry about that, Ginger and I went through Burma together”

Danny42C
19th Jan 2017, 12:59
Box Bownie,

Priceless ! Couldn't happen now,I fear.

Danny.

Union Jack
19th Jan 2017, 15:15
Priceless ! Couldn't happen now, I fear. - Danny

Not exactly "now" perhaps but, when visiting any one of his ships, Admiral Nick Hunt was renowned for spending time talking to crew members in inverse proportion to their rank - and on at least one occasion shanghaiing one of his personal staff officers at Portsmouth when the flagship's next port of call was Gibraltar......::D

Jack

Danny42C
19th Jan 2017, 18:01
Jack,

Our AVM in 221 Group, Burma, "Paddy" Bandon (the Earl of Bandon - or the "Abandoned Earl") was renowned for speaking mostly to the airmen on his official visits. Reckoned he could get to know the true state of affairs much better that way !

Danny.

MPN11
19th Jan 2017, 18:03
Lovely dit, Box Brownie.

When those moments happen, they are welded in your memory. I won't narrate mine in detail, but at a Guest Night I was greeted by the 2* guest of honour as he made his way to his seat at the top table. It felt really good!

MPN11
19th Jan 2017, 18:07
Danny42C ... the Abandoned Earl was a leader of men, in War.

Sadly they don't make many of those these days. I was lucky to encounter a few, but the majority were largely pole-climbers.

I resist posting a list, so don't ask, but at my retirement interview with my then 1* he acknowedged I had drawn some 'lesser' leaders of men :)

Box Brownie
19th Jan 2017, 19:18
Air Vice Marshal Bird-Wilson was a gentleman as was Sir Ivor Broom. I interviewed Sir Ivor so that may well be one worth putting on Prune.

FantomZorbin
20th Jan 2017, 08:38
It does still happen ... FZjr was holding as a newly minted Plt Off in MB, the department he was working in was headed by a 1* and junior was the gofer. Years later, junior was on a stand at RIAT when the 1*, now with more **s, polled up with full entourage and greeted him as an old friend and merrily chatted away much to the consternation of all the 'nodders'.
I believe the gentleman concerned went on to be HMs rep. down your neck of the woods MPN11.

Brian 48nav
20th Jan 2017, 08:57
I believe the gentleman you refer to is Sir JC. I flew with him quite a lot on 48 when he was a Flt Lt captain and I a Plt Off/Fg Off nav.

He was a very good pilot and first rate operator and an extremely nice guy. I left the service late 73' but have bumped into him on many occasions over the years.The first time was at LATCC in about 75/76 when he was a Sqn Ldr deputed to accompany the CAS of the Pakistan Air force on visits to various establishments. He spotted me on the other side of the operations room ( even though my hair was no longer RAF length! ) and immediately came over to say hello.

Everyone I have spoken to, who knew him as a JO, said that he always made a point of coming over to say hello to old chums/subordinates, even when he was an ACM.

Sadly he lost his wife a year ago and was genuinely overwhelmed by the number of messages of sympathy and support he received. A first class man!

MPN11
20th Jan 2017, 09:52
Yes, indeed ... Sir John was a real gent. Before that "Offshore appointment" I had the fortune to encounter him frequently at Bisley, as he was President of RAFSAA, and the OH served under him during his time at Bracknell. We then started bumping into each other here, especially during Poppy Appeal. Then one day I was outside Lloyds Bank with my OH, BIL and SIL [all ex-RAF and Poppy-ers] when he came by - "Hello everyone. This looks like trouble." ;)

The loss of Lady Sam was a devastating blow to everyone who knew her. What a fine lady.

Wander00
20th Jan 2017, 10:21
JC was my SUO in first term at the Towers - impressive then. Met Sir Ivor when he was President of the Pathfinder Assoc and we were running the Pathfinder 50trh at Wyton. I have memories of him carrying W Junior (then 3) out of Warboys Church on his shoulders (despite having in the past broken his back and both legs) and I rang him one day to be told by Lady B that he was out at Moor Park playing 2 rounds - he was the other side of 90! One of the nicest people I ever met.

Box Brownie
20th Jan 2017, 14:17
Wander00 Your comment on Sir Ivor is so true. When I taped him he told the story of how his back was broken in the Mosquito crash. A miracle he survived.

Danny42C
20th Jan 2017, 14:26
Yes, it's nice when this happens. Remember a Post on here some time ago. Brand new young WRAF P/O in Control Tower. Visiting Two-star comes in, double-takes: "Weren't you the photographer at Aldergove (?) when I was inspecting there eighteen months ago ?"

P/O's (A T Controller now) bosom swells with pride (but not too far, as she had a head start, so to speak).

Danny.

MPN11
20th Jan 2017, 18:42
Excellent recall, Danny42C ... it was my Tower [EGXW], my WRAF plt off [Sarah], but it was Machrihanish ;) :)

Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael William Patrick Knight, KCB, AFC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Knight_(RAF_officer))* had a remarkable memory for people/faces/names. Although, when he joined me in MY Tower to see off the Black Buck Vulcans, he didn't seem to remember me from Tengah when he was my OC Flying ... despite the various bo11ockings I received in my 1-ring days :)

I could post a photo of her in the Approach Room with the rest of the Watch at the time, but that would be improper. :E


* Possibly the briefest VSO Wiki I've ever seen!

Danny42C
21st Jan 2017, 12:14
MPN11,

Possibly another "small world": Would your "Sarah" be any chance be Sarah Searby (daughter of Wing Commander J. H. Searby (the Master Bomber at Peenemunde) ? Remember her on the Course at Shawbury (I was there Sep '62 - Sep '64). Very nice girl (as were they all)..
...I could post a photo of her in the Approach Room with the rest of the Watch at the time, but that would be improper...
Do tell !

Another VSO with famous powers of recall was the (then) Air Commodore "Gus" Walker, Comandant of the Empire Flying College at Manby in '55. Saw me there only for a few moments in the July when I arrived as the lowliest of the low cogs in his machine, fresh off the Course at Shawbury.

Tail end of a long guest line at the Manby Autumn Ball. After at least a hundred guests, he remembered me without hesitation or prompting, asking how my (brand new) bride and I had settled down there. Made a tremendous impression on her - and on me !

Glad to see that the Post just before yours has been taken down.

Danny.

Wander00
21st Jan 2017, 12:47
Mrs Searby was at Wyton for the unveiling of a Pathfinder memorial on the roundabout by SHQ in 92 or 93, but when I was there last October I realised the memorial seemed to have disappeared.


A few years after I retired the first time, would have been early 70s, was walking through Brancaster with the then Mrs W, saw chap walking towards me and noticed the empty sleeve - was amazed when Gus Walker greeted me by name and stopped to chat.

MPN11
22nd Jan 2017, 09:40
Danny42C ...

Not the same. My young lady would have gone through CATCS in 81/82. No sub-text on the photo, just respecting the privacy of a number of officers/SNCOs in the picture ;)

Another VSO with a memory was 'Cyclops' Brown, the Air Cdre at CAW Manby in '65/'66. It was reported that he did not emerge from his office for the first week, and when he did so he had learned all the names/faces/jobs of the officers and SNCOs on the Station. His first words to me [a brand new plt off] a week or two later in the Mess were, "Hello <first name>, and how are things in Strubby Tower?" :eek:

Danny42C
22nd Jan 2017, 15:34
MPN11,

Eheu, fugaces.....

Danny.

MPN11
22nd Jan 2017, 18:31
Oh, come on Danny ... should I really be posting a photo of a young WRAF officer in uniform, with a fine chest? ;)

... we now return to 'normal' programming ;)

Danny42C
22nd Jan 2017, 20:53
YES ............!

Danny42C
23rd Jan 2017, 14:46
MPN11,

Come on ! Don't hold out on us ! Do I really have to wait till next Battle of Britain Day to see Section Officer Harvey again ?

Give her some competition !

What do you say, fellas ?

Danny.

Ripline
23rd Jan 2017, 15:48
Good grief.....whatever you're on, Danny42C, could I have some, please? :)

Ripline

JW411
23rd Jan 2017, 16:12
Sort of reminds me of one foggy day at Benson about 50 years ago. We are inbound from Norway and Benson is on the non-ILS runway (02) so we are doing a PAR.

The young lady doing the talkdown had a great reputation for doing a great job. It was rumoured that my very sharp copilot and her had taken a shine to one another. So, here we are, I have him flying the letdown and I am monitoring and looking for a runway.

Coming up to 4 miles she said "You are on the glide, on the centreline and approaching 4 miles, final check of greens and flies (she meant flaps)". We both instinctively looked down!

We came out of the murk exactly on minimums and I took over and landed. On the roll out she told us to change to Tower. I thanked her for the excellent talkdown and the Freudian slip!

Danny42C
23rd Jan 2017, 17:09
Ripline,

All in the mind now, I'm afraid !

JW411,

It's not the Freudian Slips you need worry about - but the Freudian Zips !

Danny.

JW411
23rd Jan 2017, 17:18
Indeed so.....!

Ormeside28
23rd Jan 2017, 19:39
Final check while sitting on my chair lift:- spectacles, testicles,wallet, watch, hearing aids, mobile phone, flies! Bumpff was easier. Cheers all.

oxenos
23rd Jan 2017, 21:59
Flies spread disease. But not if you keep them done up.

Box Brownie
24th Jan 2017, 07:41
Flt Lt John Dunbar DFC Five into four won't go

Taken from three tapes Back to the UK

One day, after about three months of flying the General, I just semi-passed out while airborne with Jimmy rainbow, after flying General Messervy to Bangkok. He was not on board. Jimmy Rainbow had undergone pilot training in America under the Arnold scheme but late in the course was washed out, becoming a navigator. *I had let him fly the Expiditor when airborne on a number of occasions and fortunately for us he was able to get us down in one piece. I have no recollection of the next ten days. They discovered that I weighed 100lb and was suffering from a combination of malnutrition and heat exhaustion plus dysentery – all the things we all had out there. I came back as a medical repat. They didn't know what to do with people like us when they came back from Burma.
I can remember the reception committee for the hospital train coming into Waterloo station. There was a cpl MP who had some blank passes to enable us to get to our destination – that was our reception from a grateful nation when we got back. I was given double food rations and told the best thing I could do was go home, rest and in three months have a medical at Adastral House. In the meantime I had lost my flying category as well, which didn't please me at all.
After three months I had a signal to report to Adastral House, which I did. There was a three day medical and on the second day the usual boring routine was in progress. I was sitting in a corridor and was suddenly conscious of a body standing in front of me making a muted cough. I looked up and there was this Group Captain, gorgeous uniform and rows of medals just standing in front of me. What does one do as a humble Flt Lt? I stood up to attention and he didn't say a word to me – just looked at me and eventually he said “ Don't you recognise me?” “ Well sorry sir, should I ?”
“Oh yes – you should recognise me alright” I said “ I'm terribly sorry sir, but I am afraid I don't”.
“Well I suppose you don't. I'll tell you what. I'll give you a clue. Picture me wearing a Burmese longyi and a big black beard.” The penny dropped, Wg Cdr Nottage, the CO of 177 Sqdn who I had flown out of the jungle was now Grp Ctn Nottage and was in charge of postings.
“I think I owe you a lunch. Name any restaurant in London. I will pick you up at 1:00 o'clock”
When I mentioned the medical board his reply was classic. “Don't worry about them. I am in charge” In the taxi on the way back he asked me to see him once the medical was over so that a posting could be sorted out for me. My flying category limited me to Transport Command or Training Command. George Nottage suggested a posting to No1 Flying Instructors School at Woodley. He had noticed on my records that I had above average and exceptional categories. The station was civilian run by Miles Aircraft. What interested me was that the instructors stayed in the Beehive pub owned by Simmonds brewery. So that was Nottage's thank you to me.
I had an interesting few months at Woodley, particularly as Miles had just produced the Aerovan. Their pilots lived in the mess and the Chief pilot said to me one day “ Are you staying for the weekend?” I said yes because I had a rather nice girlfriend there at the time, at which he invited me to fly the Aerovan. We had a great time. He knew a farmer and we beat up the farm. On returning air traffic had a go at us as we had been reported for low flying. I thought 'well, I'm not the pilot'. A few days later he came into the mess and asked if I had signed on. I replied yes and that I had signed on for eight years on the understanding that I was in line for a permanent commission. “ You can get out you know” I said I didn't want to. “ Ah, but would you like to join us as a test pilot?”I fell for it, took my demob and went back there a few weeks later to be greeted by a large notice on the gate Miles Aircraft Factory Closed' So I found myself in civvy street without a job.

Wander00
24th Jan 2017, 07:59
Back in the late 80s/early 90s, a well known sqn ldr Loadmaster was Secretary of the RAF Equitation Association, and I was Treasurer. He used to bring his Mother in Law to events and she presented the trophies, most graciously too. She was/is Dame Vera Lynn.


I am now in touch with Tom, and with his agreement I will be sending a card to Dame Vera for her 100th birthday in March. It would be nice if I could include the best wishes of the PPRuNe community, some of the boys and girl she sang for, but rather more of their successors

Danny42C
24th Jan 2017, 11:23
Wander00 (#10083),
...It would be nice if I could include the best wishes of the PPRuNe community, some of the boys and girls she sang for...
Never sang for me (individually), but she had the pluck to get right up to the "sharp end" in Burma - which is more than some other "celebrities" cared to do. Got in amongst the PBI to sing in the Burma mud (quite right, too - for the "Forgotten [14th] Army" were the real heroes of the Burma war.

Abiding memory of her at the Calcutta Swimming Club (the one opposite the Law Courts), wearing a slick yellow one-piece, surrounded by a cohort of "Gabardine Swine". Looked great ! Was on leave at the time, far side of the pool, had to worship from afar. Memories, memories !

So congratulations Dame Vera, and All the Best - from one of your many secret admirers.

Danny42C.

BEagle
24th Jan 2017, 11:55
Steady on, Danny, the bromide seems to be wearing off! I'd post another piccy of Section Officer Harvey, but wouldn't want your sphygmomanometer to ping off-scale high!

About 25 years ago I arranged a 3-ship UAS Bulldog trip for some PR stunt involving Beaujolais Noveau (:yuk:) being delivered to some charity do in London - we flew to Manston to collect the crates which the OTC had driven up to Calais and the URNU had brought over in their boat. We flew it to Northolt via special clearance down the heli-lanes, off-loaded it, then flew back to Benson. Meanwhile the students pedalled their way from Northolt to the event on butchers' bikes with the wine bottles jangling in the baskets.

Our route took us over HQ STC at High Wycombe at about 500 ft. Plodding up the hill from the OM were all the staff REMFs off to their mahogany bombers in their blues - like matchstick men from a Lowry painting. "There they go, all the gabardine swine brown-nosing in their headlong rush for promotion", I remarked to my student. But he'd never heard of the Gaderene swine, so the pun was rather lost on him...:hmm:

Wander00
24th Jan 2017, 12:58
Danny


Have just sent that lovely story on to DV's daughter and son-in-law


I am taking your contribution as carte blanche to include PpruNe best wishes in the 100th birthday card

Danny42C
24th Jan 2017, 16:04
Wander00,

As the reference to "Gabardine Swine" may be puzzling some of our readers, I sought to bring up my long-time-ago Post on the subject. Predictably "Search this Thread" was (as usual) useless, Google likewise.

So here is a potted version:

Staff Officers in Cairo in WWII find No.1 (tropical) uniforms tailored in thin khaki gabardine much more elegant (and pleasing to the ladies) than in the (official) khaki drill. Monty's merry men, coming in hot dusty and tired from chasing Rommel round the Western Desert, observed these splendid creatures and applied this sarcastic term to them.

(You will all be familiar, I trust, with the Biblical story of the Gadarene Swine ?)

The practice was taken up by the Staffs in India. Of course, when Vera came out under the auspices of ENSA (?), these were in pole position as escorts.

(only jealous !)

Danny.

Wander00
24th Jan 2017, 16:13
Thanks Danny, I was not unaware of the term......


Hope you are keeping well and looking after yourself


W

Danny42C
24th Jan 2017, 16:31
Wander00,

Never doubted it for a moment ! (but some of the younger generation may not know the allusion).

I'm fine, thanks !

D.

Warmtoast
24th Jan 2017, 20:08
Danny - re Vera Lynn and Burma

As a fan of Andre Rieu I recorded one of his programs broadcast on Sky Arts a couple of years ago of his concert in Maastricht for the Veterans
on Armed Forces' Day 2013. I particularly liked it because it included an interview with Dame Vera Lynn in her home where she discussed her trip to Burma - a quite moving experience. The actual broadcast of Andre's interview with Dame Vera has been posted on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acZFr21WLNw

The clip includes photos from Dame Vera's photo album showing some of the troops she met whilst in Burma.

Chugalug2
25th Jan 2017, 08:47
Happy One Hundredth in March, Dame Vera. You brought hope and comfort to parted loved ones in our darkest hours.

Here she is in full song at the 1990 RVP. Also featuring Robert Hardy, as well as an all singing and dancing Air Chief Marshal. Now that's something you don't see every day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Dwf93z7w8

Danny42C
25th Jan 2017, 15:39
Warmtoast and Chugalug,

Thanks both for the links (although it takes forever on this museum piece of mine to get them up !)

Warmtoast, wonderful interview with a wonderful not-quite-so-young lady !

Still 'on song' in 1990 (age 73), Chugalug, but could not spot your "all singin', all dancin' ACM" - was he in the chorus line ?

Cheers, Danny.

Chugalug2
25th Jan 2017, 16:44
Look Stage Right (ie to the left as you look at it), Danny. Yes, presumably holding an Equity card too. When even the ACMs start looking younger, is that a sign of my advancing years?

BB, John Dunbar seems to have made a career by letting others decide on his next move in it. Perhaps this latest input was at last for the best?

Box Brownie
25th Jan 2017, 16:55
Indeed Chug. Having said that, Sir Ivor broom said that every move made was at the suggestion of others.

Chugalug2
26th Jan 2017, 10:14
Fair point, BB. From Sergeant Pilot to Air Marshal, so it obviously worked well for him! Personally, I was a great believer in the fickle finger of fate, so whatever the job allocated, the posting received, etc, I simply took it all as it came. Turned out well enough for me, in both my military and civilian lives. I consider I was lucky with the hands fate dealt me, but that is the essence of it. I have known others who planned their careers down to the n'th degree; so many years here, then off to the Far East for the remainder, before returning for a well earned retirement; only for it all to become horribly unstuck by industrial, political, or any other reason. I was lucky, and for most of us that's what it all boils down to in the end. As I asked a friend's son just starting out as a brand new airline pilot, "Are you lucky?". He didn't understand the question, but his Dad did!

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/79841-am-sir-ivor-broom.html

Danny42C
26th Jan 2017, 13:52
Chugalug,

Yes, I always "went with the flow", turned out just as well (or as badly !) as for the chaps who were always working contacts and trying to wangle postings.

"Be careful what you wish for - you might get it !"

Once (but only once) I was asked for my preference for a UK posting after a tour in RAF(G). "I'll go anywhere you like, any Command,", I said, "with one proviso - please not a Pilot AFS again !" (I was still bearing the mental scars of 3 years ATC at Strubby).

What did I get?...... Linton ! - well, I suppose they got a giggle out of it.

Danny.

Danny42C
26th Jan 2017, 14:50
Chugalug,
...I was lucky, and for most of us that's what it all boils down to in the end. As I asked a friend's son just starting out as a brand new airline pilot, "Are you lucky?". He didn't understand the question, but his Dad did!...
It is recorded somewhere that Napoleon was being buttonholed by a courtier, who was extolling the virtues and military prowess of some General of his acquaintance.

"Yes, yes !", said Napoleon testily, "But is he lucky ?"

Danny.

MPN11
27th Jan 2017, 08:50
Danny42C... I was in the pub in Louth [The Wheatsheaf] that functioned as the No 2 Officers Mess for Manby when I looked at SATCO and said something like "I'd really like to get out of Flying Training Command: any chance of a posting?". "Where do you want to go?" he replied. "Oh, anywhere, and I'll only need a couple of weeks' notice" I replied, in that uber-confident plt off way when talking to SATCO down t'pub. "I'll have a word with 'Red' <redacted>. Leave it with me." ('Red' was the sqn ldr who managed ATC JO postings.)

And ... a couple of weeks later I found myself posted to Tengah. What's not to like? :D

Danny42C
27th Jan 2017, 14:58
MPN11,

Crawler ! (bet you paid for the beer !) Worked, though :ok:

All right for some !

Danny.

MPN11
27th Jan 2017, 19:57
Only to an extent, Danny42C ... I succumbed to the tropical heat and married my first wife on the rebound from my [previous] gorgeous squeeze :D

All's well now, thank the Lord, with Mk. 2 after 34 years ;)

Back to 'Cyclops Brown' on another thread, about good VSOs, who I remember to post a dit.

Danny42C
27th Jan 2017, 20:52
MPN11,

...All's well now, thank the Lord, with Mk. 2 after 34 years...

Ad multos annos ! (I ran up nearly 62 - and it wasn't "a Day too Long").

Danny.

Box Brownie
28th Jan 2017, 09:12
Flt Lt John Dunbar R.I.P. Five into four won't go

Taken from three tapes

BB John continued to fly after leaving the air force. As it is not relevant to the thread I have sumarised the details:

Out of work, John applied for a job with Hunting Air Travel flying Dakotas. It did not last long – redundancy along with a number of other aircrew. Joining Airwork John flew a DH Rapide in the middle east, on one occasion being offered money to drop a bomb on TelAvive! There is an excellent photo of the Rapide on it's nose after landing during a sandstorm outside Baghdad. Reg – G-AGOP.
Returning to the UK John joined Flight Refueling in time to take part in the Berlin Airlift, flying as a co-pilot on Lancastrians taking fuel into the city. He was promoted to Captain in June 1949. Operating from Wunstorf and Hamburg, John made 104 return flights. Flying throughout the airlift, he was conscious of sitting on the end of a 3,000 gal petrol tank with a take off weight 1,000lb above normal landing weight.He mentioned that they were used for target practice by Migs and when landing at Tegal at night it was not unknown for the Russions to shine searchlights at them.
John then left aviation and joined a steel company where he eventually becamea general manager and director before retiring in 1983. Over the years he always said that people would not believe you if you told them what conditions were like in Burma, they would not believe you or think you were shooting a line, which is why so many kept quiet.

Chugalug2
28th Jan 2017, 11:28
BB , sincere thanks for telling us JD's RAF story. TBH nothing is outside the scope of this thread, and certainly not the Berlin Airlift! If you felt inclined, his civil aviation career would be as fascinating reading about as his Service one. I only speak for myself of course, and quite understand if enough is enough from your point of view. In which case, many thanks again! :ok:

To survive those suicidal daylight attacks against the 1940 westward advance of the Wehrmacht was an achievement in itself. Everything else that followed was sheer bonus in my view. To be still around these days having told the tale, but to be now blissfully free of the darkest memories of those distant days is perhaps a merciful release...

Danny42C
28th Jan 2017, 13:39
Box Brownie and Chugalug,
...If you felt inclined, his civil aviation career would be as fascinating reading about as his Service one...
Amen to that ! (and so would say all of us !) Please let us have it - if it's not too much trouble).

As Chugalug has noted: "All's grist that comes to this mill" (this Thread is a very Broad Church ! - thanks to the loose rein the Moderators hold us on).

(BB pp JD) said that people would not believe you if you told them what conditions were like in Burma, they would not believe you or think you were shooting a line, which is why so many kept quiet.
Harks back to Kipling's old time-ex soldier:

"[I]The things that was that I 'ave seen,
In barrick, camp - an' action, too.
I tells 'em over to meself,
And sometimes wonders if they're true,
For they was odd, most awful odd !"

In my case, things were quite civilised: I lived in a standard "basha" on my (air-transportable) "charpoy", ate three meals a day (even if they were all bully beef, powdered potato, eggs, "soya links", curried something [don't ask] and rice). Bearer to bring cuppa chae in morning..... Utter luxury in comparison with the PBI in the rain and mud of monsoon Burma.

I suspect that John's living conditions "behind the lines" would be more like the Army.

Danny.

Geriaviator
28th Jan 2017, 15:07
I dropped out of English Literature and never had a liking for poetry, but odd things happen after half a dozen decades and belatedly I have come to the verse of John Pudney. Of course there is an aviation connection, for he was an RAF intelligence officer at St Eval in 1941 when he produced his short book entitled Dispersal Point.
Pudney would certainly have seen many three-man crews leave on ops, and he remembered them in this poem Security which describes the stripping away of all identity before departure. The sting comes in the last line.

Empty your pockets, Tom, Dick and Harry,
Strip your identity, leave it behind.
Lawyer, garage-hand, grocer, don't tarry
With your own country, with your own kind.
Leave all your letters, suburb and township,
Green fen and grocery, slipway and bay,
Hot spring and prairie, smoke-stack and coal-tip,
Leave in our keeping while you are away.
Tom, Dick and Harry, plain names and numbers,
Pilot, Observer and Gunner depart.
Their personal litter only encumbers
Somebody's head; somebody's heart.

Danny42C
28th Jan 2017, 15:58
Geriaviator,

Yes - I'd quite forgotten. Your last act was to empty your pockets of all personal items, cash, wallets, keys, etc - everything except your watch. The I.O. would seal it in an envelope in your presence and write your name on it. You collected it at debriefing when (if) you got back.

Figuratively speaking, you must go naked into battle.

Danny.

Molemot
28th Jan 2017, 17:42
John Pudney also wrote "For Johnny"...which formed part of the film "The Way to the Stars"....

Do not despair
For Johnny-head-in-air;
He sleeps as sound
As Johnny underground.
Fetch out no shroud
For Johnny-in-the-cloud;
And keep your tears
For him in after years.

Better by far
For Johnny-the-bright-star,
To keep your head,
And see his children fed.

olympus
28th Jan 2017, 18:56
John Pudney was quite prolific; he also wrote 'A Pride of Unicorns', the biography of the Atcherley brothers, which I am currently reading and enjoying.

Danny42C
29th Jan 2017, 18:53
Just to let you know Danny 42C won't be putting in any posts in the near future, as he was admitted to hospital this morning.

Hopefully, he will be back posting as soon as possible.

Regards, Danny's Daughter

MPN11
29th Jan 2017, 19:04
Bu66er ... thanks for letting us know.

I'm sure you know that we are all entranced by his inputs, and wit/wisdom.

Please give him our corporate best wishes. He's an icon.

Box Brownie
29th Jan 2017, 19:10
The same thoughts from me.

Wander00
29th Jan 2017, 22:16
Danny's Daughter - please give him the best wishes of us all

Chugalug2
29th Jan 2017, 22:23
Danny's Daughter, thank you for telling us. Danny has become a PPRuNe legend, and we wait anxiously for his return to our fold. I can but reiterate MPN11's best wishes. His virtual crew room armchair awaits him!

Ddraig Goch
30th Jan 2017, 07:15
Best wishes Danny, I hope you get better soon. I am sure all your friends in the crew room wish you well too.

FantomZorbin
30th Jan 2017, 07:38
Trust you'll be back in fine fettle soon Danny ... I suppose it's down to us to do the washing up in the tea bar in the interim!
All the very best Danny, FZ

papajuliet
30th Jan 2017, 08:11
Very best wishes Danny - get well soon.

Geriaviator
30th Jan 2017, 14:16
Thank you for keeping us informed, Danny's Daughter ... I know that nobody could have done more for him in recent months and he greatly appreciated your loving care. Our thoughts and prayers are with him and your family.

Ormeside28
30th Jan 2017, 15:40
Get well soon Danny. Good people are scarce. You encouraged me with my story, as you have so encouraged others.

ricardian
30th Jan 2017, 19:35
Danny's Daughter - thanks for passing on the information. Get well soon Danny!

lasernigel
30th Jan 2017, 22:32
Get well soon Danny.

MPN11
1st Feb 2017, 11:42
The mist hung over the airfield, muffling sound and vision and stifling any prospect of flying. The Crewroom was quiet too: only the creaking of the stove’s chimney and the soft ‘splat’ of playing cards disturbed the silence.

The Crewroom door swung open, admitting the cold damp air and one of the members.
“Any news on The Skipper yet?”, he enquired.
“No, nothing, but if there is any you’ll see The Thread light up again.”
“Ah, OK, just checking.” he said, heading for the kettle to put on another brew. “Bloody dull without him, isn’t it.”

Geriaviator
1st Feb 2017, 16:00
Beautifully put, MPN11. You have summed up our feelings to perfection. :(

Wander00
1st Feb 2017, 18:39
MPN11 - yours or "borrowed", matters not, Brilliant. Thanks for expressing so well for all of us


W

MPN11
1st Feb 2017, 18:51
Mine own thoughts, Sir. "Creaked" x 2 annoys me now!

Edit = hinges oiled :)

Danny42C
1st Feb 2017, 19:54
MPN11, Box Brownie, Wander00, Chugalug, Ddraig Gogh, Fantom Zorbin. papa juliet, An Email from a Pruner, Geriaviator, Ormeside28. ricardian, lasernigel and MPN11 (again, with a particularly evocative Flight of Fancy).

Chaps ! What can I say ? It has been much the same as listening to the Eulogy at your own funeral ! I am most humbled and grateful for all the kind things which have been said about me. As I've so often said, I enjoy blowing my own trumpet, have been blessed with the "Gift of the Gab", which enables me to do so, and if you find it entertaining and interesting to read, then that is a Bonus to me.

Know now that Danny is home again, and firing on at least 3 out of 4 cyllinders. As I explained matters earlier to a kind friend among us, who had emailed his concern:

..."Back with Mary teatime today ! (There's No Place like Home !)

Just for observation, really, but Mary was worried about me. got the ambulance Sunday early AM and got me in ! Turned out she was right, lung infection, they got on top of it, bunged me full of antibiotics, all well now with more pills than you could shake a stick at"....
NHS here very good, treated me well, no complaints on that score.

So, "On with the Motley". Put some more coke on the stove, let the conversation flow !
With renewed thanks to you all, Danny.


PS. I am gratified to see that MPN11s "Flight of fancy" has been so strongly welcomed and supported (to date) by Geriaviator and Wander00. A true poet !

PPs. MPN11, right first time. Who ever heard of a crewroom door hinge being oiled ? Let it creak (like most of the inhabitants !) say I.

D.

oxenos
1st Feb 2017, 20:10
Good to have you back.

JAVELINBOY
1st Feb 2017, 20:56
Welcome back Sir you had us all going back there.

Warmtoast
1st Feb 2017, 22:34
Danny


Delighted to see you back - keep taking the tablets!


WT

CoodaShooda
2nd Feb 2017, 01:51
Over the past three days, my small group of friends and acquaintances has delivered news of two terminal liver cancers (3 months max), one terminal leukaemia, one very aggressive bowel cancer (32 year old mother of three),
one bladder cancer (treatable but there's a world-wide shortage of the required chemo), one mother (not mine) passing with dementia, another mother (also not mine) about to pass with dementia and a 3 month old baby girl who, through losing on the genetic lottery, won't see her first birthday.

Danny
Your rapid return is a very welcome ray of sunshine in a rather bleak landscape.

ian16th
2nd Feb 2017, 07:28
Danny, Welcome home.

I take it that the Jimmy Cook Gin Palace worked its magic.

Chugalug2
2nd Feb 2017, 07:59
Danny, you're back, and sitting in your old chair again! No one else would have thought of using it anyway. Fancy a cuppa? NATO Standard as usual? Sorry, couldn't find an unchipped mug, we must try getting some new ones.

We all missed you and are delighted to have you back, so don't go scaring us again like that anytime soon! Please thank your daughter for letting us know, it seems only yesterday that you first proudly introduced her to us.

Now, where were we?

MPN11
2nd Feb 2017, 08:05
The Stn Cdr popped his head round the crewroom door.
"Ha, I see this door is creaking again."
"Sorry, Sir, I'll get some oil on it right away."
"Anyway, chaps, you'll be glad to hear The Skipper is back on terra firma. Bit of a problem with his oxygen supply, apparently. He had to divert."
<Universal cries of 'Huzzah', 'Whoopee' and 'Put the kettle on.'>
"Is it time for tea and medals, then?" piped up a junior sprog.
The Stn Cdr grinned, and left the Crewroom to its usual random mutterings.

Good to have you back, Danny. :)

Ddraig Goch
2nd Feb 2017, 08:39
Welcome back Danny it's good to see you're better. Can I point you and others to a superb thread on The Military Section of Pprune titled The Right PLace at the Right Time; there are some superb photos linked on the thread.

Brian 48nav
2nd Feb 2017, 09:05
Been away from PPrune for a few days ( funeral, family problems etc ) so not aware "The skipper" had been laid up.

Good to have you back Danny.

MPN11 - brilliant!

ancientaviator62
2nd Feb 2017, 09:23
I too have been AWOL, and have just caught up with the great news ref the CO.

papajuliet
2nd Feb 2017, 09:24
Welcome back Danny !

Danny42C
2nd Feb 2017, 14:25
To All,

My thanks to all who have welcomed (and others who may possibly welcome) my return to the fiiring line. Specially CoodaShooda, who seems to have had a bad run. I did not do too well myself, losing one brother-in-law (aged 101) last February, my beloved wife in August, and another brother-in-law (ex-wartime RAF) from Alzheimers last Christmas.

Some people have all the luck ! Send not to know for whom the bell tolls .........

Ian16th, Yes, the same (Captain James Cook is Middlesbrough's sole claim to fame. So has our estimeed Technical College ["the lumpenpolytariat"] blossomed as the James Cook University, and the old "South Tees" ennobled as the "The James Cook University Hospital" If we made seaside "rock", it would have "James Cook" in the middle).

Have a history there as long as your arm. Much improved this last time, damn'd pay-TVs taken out, peace at last !

Cheers to all, Danny.

MPN11
2nd Feb 2017, 14:28
Well, as everyone still seems slightly traumatised by The Skipper's absence, I guess I might try to get the ball rolling again. Some of you may recall us discussing good VSOs a while back, and I mentioned [#10071] Air Cdre 'Cyclops' Brown, who was then Commandant of the College of Air Warfare. And so it came to pass ...

... that Plt Off MPN11 and his Strubby Tower colleague Plt Off Dave G***e (are you here, Dave?) were the most junior of junior members of the Mess. And one Saturday evening, in comes the Cmdt, accompanied by his wife, son and daughter. The Cmdt calls Dave and I over, introduces us to his offspring and said something along the lines of, "Look after these two, use my Bar Book" and proceeded to converse with adults and important people. I have no doubt, given his powers of recall, that he knew I was an avid SB Rifle shooter at the time, and his son (16?) had an interest in that direction. His daughter was 17 (IIRC) and embarking on a modelling career. [no snickering in the back row, please, this was 1965/66].

Anyway, we 4 youngsters spent a pleasant evening chatting, and drinking the Air Cdre's pay. Eventually, 2300 loomed and the Commandant came over to our table. "If you're going to keep drinking, you'll have to do that at my place. Follow me." And thus Dave and I followed in the family's wake to The Residence, where we carried on drinking and chatting - and eventually Cmdt and Mrs disappeared. At some small hour, we young ones were surprised by the Cmdt entering the room. "Are you still here? If you need more drinks, you'd better pop back at lunchtime." Dave and I took the hint, and departed ... to return at lunchtime for a sherry or three.

Oh, he was a very nice man, and VERY kind to plt offs! :D

mikehallam
2nd Feb 2017, 15:55
And to entertain here's a nice 1943 USA film on assembling a crated P47 Thunderbolt in the field. Only using the packing case and hand tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2D3k0sJ8HM#t=3.498667


mike hallam

Danny42C
2nd Feb 2017, 16:43
MPN11,

What a hotbed of hanky-panky with nubile maidens does Strubby seem to have been in 1965 ! My time was ten years before; it was then the Empire Flying College and our Commandant the one-armed "Gus" Walker (of cherished memory). Sounds as if the place had a tradition of disabled Commandants, as I presume your "Cyclops" Brown had lost an eye ?

No maidens (nubile or otherwise) at Strubby in my day, but still remember that little Mess Bar. After a n/f session, we usually had a quiet noggin or two before going off/home to bed. The "old boy" stoods (ran up to 2-Star on the Courses, IIRC,) enjoyed these throw-backs to the days of their youth as much as we did, and "let their hair down". I always remember one (2-Star ?) confidentially remarking about a 1-Star, who had just gone off to Manby to bed: "Old so-and-so is an ex-brat like me - but he doesn't like people knowing about it". Raised a smile !

Manby was a WRAF Station, but the only time we got a sniff there was when SATCO (both places) noticed that you were about to collapse from "battle-fatigue", and rostered you for a week's "rest-cure" to recuperate before putting you back in the front line. I'd kept my end up pretty well at Strubby, but made myself the Buffoon of the Year there over the case of "The Horse That Never Was" (still traceable on Thread, I suppose).

Anyway, I was a happily (newly-married) man then, so such goings-on as you describe had no appeal for me...........

Danny.

MPN11
2nd Feb 2017, 16:53
Hanky-panky? Totally decorous on that occasion, I assure you!

Yes, indeed, Air Cdre Brown had lost an eye, and wore an eye-patch over the glass substitute. As the evening wore on, the patch woukd tend to drift up his forehead, obviously unseen by him. I was told he also had a glass eye with an RAF roundel instead of the usual pupil/iris arrangememnt, but never saw that myself.

Pom Pax
2nd Feb 2017, 16:59
Danny glad to see you back if not yet A1 G1.
At last I can claim to have something in common with you having had a similar experience five days before you. If you have been discharged with a supply of super strength antibiotics you are now cured of nearly all know lurgies. My supply came with 8 A4 pages of description which claimed they cured all the things the M.O. used to warn you about and numerous obscure things found in the far east. All this claimed with a caveat that they wont work if you imbibe.

MPN11
2nd Feb 2017, 17:19
That last sentence is a bit of a bummer!!

ian16th
2nd Feb 2017, 19:29
Ian16th, Yes, the same (Captain James Cook is Middlesbrough's sole claim to fame. So has our estimeed Technical College ["the lumpenpolytariat"] blossomed as the James Cook University, and the old "South Tees" ennobled as the "The James Cook University Hospital" If we made seaside "rock", it would have "James Cook" in the middle).Though not I've yet to reach your ancient status, as a lad I had the opportunity to attend Constantine College, but instead, I took the Queens shilling and became a Boy Entrant.

In 1952 the idea of it becoming a University, wasn't even a gleam in anyone's eye.

The hospital was simply 'The Gen'!

Danny42C
2nd Feb 2017, 20:29
ian16th,

Of course ! "South Tees" only started in 1980. Before that was the "General".

Danny.

BEagle
2nd Feb 2017, 22:22
Glad to see you back, Danny!

Any 'nubile maiden' nurses in that hospital, of similar pulchritudinous quality to that of a certain Section Officer, to soothe your fevered brow... ;) ?

Hangarshuffle
2nd Feb 2017, 23:11
The thread resurrection. Meanwhile, many dead with no real outcome to the investigation. You can sneer all you like at me but many families await an outcome in law. Please close this utterly poor disrespectful thread.

Fark'n'ell
3rd Feb 2017, 04:09
The thread resurrection. Meanwhile, many dead with no real outcome to the investigation. You can sneer all you like at me but many families await an outcome in law. Please close this utterly poor disrespectful thread.
??????
Are sure you have the right thread Hangershuffle

Snyggapa
3rd Feb 2017, 07:25
??????
Are sure you have the right thread Hangershuffle

Presumably aimed at the hunter / shoreham airshow thread and missed.

Danny42C
3rd Feb 2017, 12:36
BEagle (#10186),

Glad to be back !

Sadly there were some (well up to York standard), but not a flicker in my direction ! Ah, well - comes to us all in time !

Danny.

pzu
3rd Feb 2017, 15:01
Careful Danny - I've got relatives (admittedly distant and on the wife's side) working in that place (the Cook)

Glad to see you back on the run!!!

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

ricardian
3rd Feb 2017, 15:18
Welcome back Danny!

Danny42C
3rd Feb 2017, 18:54
Thanks, all, for the welcome back in our cyber crew-room !

Pom Pax,

Ah, not even my customary (medicinal) slug of Baileys in my coffee now - till I've finished stock of mini tomb-stones (tomorrow night). Kills All Known Germs !

And why are they all white now, so's you can't tell t'other from which ? Miracle I'm not poisoned !

Danny.

Fareastdriver
3rd Feb 2017, 19:52
Kills All Known Germs !

Three a day for seven days Once you start the course you MUST finish it or you build in a resistance.

To kill SOME germs it's six followed by another six eight hours later followed by another six eight hours after that.

We're a bit too old for that.

DHfan
3rd Feb 2017, 23:16
To a lesser degree I've just had a similar problem.
I was discharged after a back operation a couple of weeks ago with three different types of painkiller.
Fortunately I haven't needed any of them but I had to scour the (extremely) small print to find one that didn't say "do not drink alcohol".

octavian
4th Feb 2017, 06:39
A somewhat belated welcome back to the crew room Danny, and picking up on the posts about one eyed/armed VSOs, I wonder if anyone else recalls Gp Capt Gerald Pendred, who was Stn Cdr at RAF Cranwell around 1972-3 when I arrived there for my first tour. I was told that he had lost an eye in a Typhoon crash in 1944/45, but recall him going off flying in JPs and especially a Chipmunk, usually with Sqn Ldr "Chick" Hemsley. I remember him as a very charming old school gentleman who retired and went to run an antique shop in Ancaster.

Pom Pax
4th Feb 2017, 15:40
Both aviation and medicine have evolved over the ages.

Whilst in '61 undergoing a prolonged and refined form of medieval torture in Ely Hospital we were served a 1/2 pint bottle of pale ale every evening and had our ash trays emptied more often than our beds made up. One evening a fellow inmate's (Waterbeach Javelin driver) Squadron commander visited with a full crate to pass his wife's confinement rather than pace the corridors. After having visited his new born he returned with two crates.

And now Danny for the interest of your dutiful carer an incite into McIndoe. A work colleague who had been only a lowly MT driver told me that nothing was too good for McIndoe's boys and he personal had regularly both champagne and VSOP brandy, both of which can only have been in very short supply in mid '43.

Danny42C
4th Feb 2017, 19:31
Pom Pax,

In civilian hospitals a long time ago, patients were "prescribed" a glass of Guinness every evening as a "tonic" (good idea !)

My Mary did most of her (postwar) nursing career at the Queen Victoria Hospital, East Grinstead. Was a Clinical Nurse Specialist in Burns and Plastic Surgery. Met the "Guinea Pigs" many times at their reunions.

I have the paperback book "McIndoe's Army" (by Edward Bishop; pub: Grub Street, 4, Rainham Close, SW11 6SS; ISBN 1 904943 02 0; 2004 edition). (Available S. American River at exorbitant prices. Possibility of a Kindle).

I put in a Post about it on Page 359, #7158, you followed me on #7159.

Cheers, Danny.

ricardian
4th Feb 2017, 20:50
Pom Pax,

In civilian hospitals a long time ago, patients were "prescribed" a glass of Guinness every evening as a "tonic" (good idea !)

My Mary did most of her (postwar) nursing career at the Queen Victoria Hospital, East Grinstead. Was a Clinical Nurse Specialist in Burns and Plastic Surgery. Met the "Guinea Pigs" many times at their reunions.

I have the paperback book "McIndoe's Army" (by Edward Bishop; pub: Grub Street, 4, Rainham Close, SW11 6SS; ISBN 1 904943 02 0; 2004 edition). (Available S. American River at exorbitant prices. Possibility of a Kindle).

I Posted on it on Page 359, #7158, you followed me on #7159.

Cheers, Danny.
I had two spells totalling about 7 weeks at HMS Drake, a stone frigate & the RN Hospital in Plymouth. The first time I was officially stationed at RAF Tangmere but attached to the Army and stationed at Crownhill Fort, the second time I had been posted to RAF Mountbatten. Every evening we all got a bottle of either Guinness or Mackeson. And who could forget cheesy-hammy-eggy for tea.
At that time I was probably the only person in the RAF whose medical category (allocated by the RN) was "P7 - unfit for sea-going duty"; that really confused the Army and the RAF.
And just try to clear from a station at which you never arrived - whilst I was attached to the army 38 Group had moved from Tangmere to Odiham.

fleigle
5th Feb 2017, 00:20
My Dad was operated on in 1947 for some kind of unique ulcer condition, recuperation involved large quantities of Guinness, prescribed to the point that he couldn't stand the taste of the stuff later and always drank Mackeson.
Needless to say that when he visited us many yonks later in California it was a challenge to satisfy his "requirements".
Nothing to do with "the thread" but, what the hell...
f

Brian 48nav
5th Feb 2017, 11:38
Chaps, I've sent our friend a PM asking him to delete his 10147 - he probably doesn't even realise his finger trouble!

Danny42C
5th Feb 2017, 15:28
fliegle (#10160),
...he couldn't stand the taste of the stuff later and always drank Mackeson...
De gustibus non est disputandum.....
....Nothing to do with "the thread" but, what the hell...
Here, on the Best of All Threads on PPRuNe, you will find kind, indulgent Moderators, whose patience and forebearance have done much to make it so. Check a few back Posts (there are 500+ Pages of them, to see how wide we range). Enjoy !

Danny42C. (US Army Air Corps "Arnold Scheme" 1941-2).

Ormeside28
5th Feb 2017, 16:01
Dear Danny, good to have you back with us. Every day is a bonus to we oldies. Greetings from across the bay.

pzu
5th Feb 2017, 20:52
My 'Nanna' aka Mary Jane had an on/off involvement with the NHS around 1961/63 - during this, she an alleged lifelong teetotaller was prescribed 'stout' by the the NHS
During her last incarceration she reckoned that the product dispensed by the hospital (Stockton & Thonaby General) was of an inferior quality and the family were instructed to smuggle in Guinness as this was all Mary Jane would accept!!!

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

Danny42C
6th Feb 2017, 11:24
Ormeside28,

Ta ! Yup, there aren't many of us left.


pzu,

Good on Mary Jane ! - a lady of rare discernment.

Hope that when they let her out, she celebrated with a Black Velvet !


Cheers, both. Danny.

Wander00
6th Feb 2017, 15:46
Danny, great to see you back. As an in-patient at RAFH Ely in the 60s the orthopaedic surgeon prescribed a bottle of Guinness per night

MPN11
6th Feb 2017, 16:38
Hmmm ... my incarceration at RAFH Halton was a dismal experience. As the OH noted, angrily, to the staff I had never even been given any sort of bed-bath or personal hygiene assistance. At the time I was completely prostrate [with an R] due to a bu66ered back, and doped to the hilt, having been delivered there by ambulance from NATS.

Chugalug2
6th Feb 2017, 21:48
2 years after leaving the RAF our first child was due. The GP promptly offered to book Mrs C into the local NHS hospital (the Luton and Dunstable).

"Can you instead arrange for RAFH Halton?"

But you aren't in any of the Services!

"Doesn't matter, the NHS may use Military Hospitals if capacity is available" (it was then, we were still in the Cold War era). News to him but he duly agreed to try.

And so it was arranged and she spent an idyllic week there, with staff greatly outnumbering the patients. It could have been longer, but she and our son soon grew bored. Being a modern man I attended the delivery (well, it was modern then!). True to form it was interspersed with a shift change, with much banter between the different teams. Some things never change!

No Guinness offered though, not even for the wife!

Danny42C
7th Feb 2017, 12:59
Amusing tale (except for the victim !) from an RAF Hospital.........

Wroughton, 1952.....in the Ward was a chappie shortly to be married. But there was a snag, things were a bit tight, as it were, better circumsnip.

Job done, patient recuperating, visitors come in weekend - including object of desire. Inflamed by passion, busts stiches, howl heard in Swindon.....

(Well, we thought it was funny......)

No Guinness, though !

Danny.

Geriaviator
7th Feb 2017, 16:55
MY goodness, this discussion takes unexpected pathways! Today's contribution to our medical forum: the Senior Houseman on the ward where I spent eight long weeks awaiting surgery was in fact a Senior Housewoman – and a real stunner. For some reason she took to me and kept a very close eye as I progressed towards the Big Exit.

One evening she changed before ending her shift so she could go direct from hospital to party, arriving for her final ward rounds with a toss of her ponytail, clad in a vivid top and a pair of jeans which must have been sprayed on. She bounced up to my bedside, raising the ward's collective blood pressure to dangerous levels, and asked if she looked OK? I said I wished I was 50 years younger, at which she gave me a big hug to the envious cheers of the other patients.

I was enjoying this novel therapy when Sister came round the corner to see what the commotion was about. 'Put that patient down at once, doctor', she said. 'It's dangerous to excite these cardiac cases'. 'Oh yes', said my carer, 'but it's like having a grandpa again.' Three years later we're still in touch, my lovely friend is happily married and as pleased with the results of my surgery as I am myself. Alas, while she has qualified she is now paying off her £45,000 student loan.

Danny42C
8th Feb 2017, 13:55
Geriaviator,

Yes, there have been some stunners over the years. But how young they've grown ! Some fifteen years ago was flat on my back, along comes a schoolgirl (you'd guess at 16), strange bouncing gait like a rubber ball, expertly catherises me and bounces off again........

Wish to put it on record that I and mine have had nothing but good service from the NHS, no complaints except for the grub (in earlier years). Once "main meal" arrived, looked at it, said to Sister: "If you put that before your husband, he'd take a stick to you !"

Not well received !

Danny.

Fareastdriver
8th Feb 2017, 15:06
You didn't have as much attention as I did when I had my cataracts done in Shanghai a couple of years ago. The usual fantastic selection of nurses and as they had not seen western eyes before, (Chinese eyes are universally dark brown) they were all dead keen to do the eye drops trick.

There was a non-stop procession of them and I must have had three cardiac arrests and five gallons of eye drop fluid.

Danny42C
8th Feb 2017, 17:25
FED,

And the cheongsam ?

Danny.

MPN11
8th Feb 2017, 18:56
I was 'circumsnipped' [great term!] at RAFH Norton Hall. I recall nothing of the nurses bandaging my wounded old chap. Blanking my thoughts seemed wisest! :D

But I did have the diversion of being the next room to Spencer Flack, who had stuffed his Sea Fury into my Approach Lights at Waddington in 1981. I didn't discuss the incident with him, as it seemed too personal! But, back to Aviation ...

I was at home in my OMQ that day when the Crash alarm sounded. I rushed in from the garden, threw on some uniform and headed for the Tower. Having seen the Crash Crew heading for the 21 approach and Crash Gate, I followed [advising ATC on my Storno, of course]. There I found G-FURY in a crumpled state in the field just the other side of the A15, and Mr Flack being attended to by the Crash Crew. A minute or so LATER the Crash Ambulance arrived from SMC (How long?????) and I was party to assisting the stretcher into the extremely tardy Ambulance.

A few words were subsequently spoken about the speed of response by Medic 1 on a MEDA.

DHfan
8th Feb 2017, 22:38
Ah yes, the grub...
I had to spend a few days in hospital in about 1990. I don't recall anything wrong with the quality. That's probably because there wasn't enough of it to detect what it tasted like.
My other half was bringing in sandwiches for me every day to keep me going.

Wander00
9th Feb 2017, 08:26
My last stay in hospital was in France , for a hip replacement. Operation, care, food all brilliant until the last night, when supper was , to the French a delicacy called "boudin noir" - like black pudding but semi liquid. I could not face it so survived the night on the starter and cheese and biscuits. The following day I was loaded head first into a small ambulance and the driver set off at high speed. He had no idea where he was going and I was trying to direct him, hardly able to see out and thus where we were, in my then very poor French, head first at high speed. We made I, just.

Warmtoast
9th Feb 2017, 12:02
Hospital meals - don't complain too much.
Just think what us fliers had to endure whilst travelling out east in the late 1970's as witness this lunchbox provided by civilian caterers at Khartoum in July 1979.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Far%20East%20Trip%201979/KhartoumLunchBoxc-1980_1066x800.jpg
A couple of ropey rolls and two dead bananas - so awful I had to photograph it for posterity. Mind you it wasn't too bad because ISTR none of the crew had to be hospitalised afterwards!

cliver029
9th Feb 2017, 13:30
My contribution to the hospitality sub thread:-

Many years back I was in Changi Hospital (nice view over the creek BTW) and recovering from Sand Fly fever, a sailor is brought into the same ward with kidney problems, and after a few days they duly wheel him away for his operation, short while later the daily lunch list comes round, guess what was top of the list, yes Steak and Kidney pie! needless to say there were no takers that day, we never saw him again. talk about services sensitivity

pulse1
10th Feb 2017, 09:34
Danny,

You may recall that you kindly relinquished your seat by the fire to Frank, our intrepid Beaufighter nav who, at 98, joined as the oldest member of the virtual crew room. (Post 8123)

Sadly I can now restore the seat to your care as Frank passed away earlier this week after a long battle with cancer. Typical of the man, he lived life as fully as possible right to the end, justifying my frequently expressed comment that they don't make them like that anymore. His friends and family are so pleased that this thread provided the stimulus to write down the essentials of his war story which he himself was reluctant to tell for so long.

Wander00
10th Feb 2017, 09:57
RiP Frank - now has a seat by the fire in the crew room in the sky

Danny42C
10th Feb 2017, 13:02
pulse 1 and Wander00,

So, another good man gone - we must be getting near the bottom of the barrel now.... Requiescat in Pace.

I shuffle back into the old battered chair by the stove with a heavy heart (Send not to ask for whom the bell tolls...............)

Thanks for the sad news, chaps.

Danny.

Pom Pax
10th Feb 2017, 14:53
When I was a child ISTR that sick but ambulant patients wore white shirts and red ties when out and about in the City of Ely. Am I correct?

Wander00
10th Feb 2017, 15:04
Certainly I was not so attired when I went to visit my (now ex) wife at her parents' place the other side of Ely, in about 67

Danny42C
10th Feb 2017, 15:44
I may be wrong, but I think that Sir Archibald McIndoe had a hand in stopping this demeaning business, when he was the reconstructive plastic surgery genius of the Queen Victoria Hospital in East Grinstead during WWII. He insisted that his "guinea-pigs" be allowed to wear uniform or mufti when they were "walking wounded" in hospital or out in town. This reinforced the impression that, hideously scarred as they might be, they were still full members of the community and not gargoyles dressed in ill-fitting red, white and blue pyjamas paraded around to be pitied by the public.

It is to the eternal credit of the people of the little town that they joined forces with him, and all treated the "guinea-pigs" as if their injuries were invisible.

Danny.

Pom Pax
10th Feb 2017, 16:14
Wander00
I am talking probably '44. I did say "When I was a child ".

JW411
12th Feb 2017, 12:09
The mention of Sir Archibald McIndoe's special burns unit at the Queen Victoria Hospital at East Grinstead has made me think of another one of 53 Squadron's "Army" pilots. Lt Bernard Brian StG Daly of the Lancashire Fusiliers joined as a Hector pilot in 1937. He went off to France with the rest of the squadron on the outbreak of war (now equipped with Blenheim IV aircraft) and ended up based at Poix in Picardy. Now a Flt Lt in the RAF, he became OC "A" Flight on 01 January 1940.

Life was reasonably peaceful until the Germans invaded the Low Countries on 10 May. Part of the problem of flying Blenheims in a war situation was its similarity, from some directions, to the Ju-88. On 15 May, Brian Daly and his crew flying L4847 were set upon by a 73 Sqn Hurricane. They managed to escape but their aircraft was damaged. On the same day, P/O P K Bone and his crew flying L9399 were attacked by a 504 Sqn Hurricane. They were shot down and killed.

The very next day, Brian Daly and his crew were on a photographic sortie in L4852 when they were bounced by an 85 Sqn Hurricane. They tried to land at the Hurricane's base at Glisy but they were attacked again on final approach. Brian was forced to overshoot but finally managed to land wheels-up but by now the aircraft was on fire. Flt Lt Daly, Sgt W R B Currie and AC2 P J Blanford were all badly burned and sent back to UK for medical treatment.

Incidentally, when the Hurricane pilot was asked as to why he ignored the firing of the colours of the day by the Blenheim, he replied that he thought they were firing a cannon at him.

So it was that Brian Daly became a customer of Sir Archibald McIndoe. He was eventually cleared to return to flying duties despite his disfigurement.

The powers that be offered him a job teaching pilots to fly Blenheims at 2 SAC (School of Army Co-operation) at Andover but he was determined to finish what he had started and insisted on returning to 53 Sqn.

By now the squadron was part of Coastal Command and based at Thorney Island. The main occupation was attacking shipping and the Channel ports. On his very first operation after returning to 53 Sqn, he set off in T1992/X in company with 7 other Blenheims on 04 February 1941 to attack Cherbourg. Flt Lt B B StG Daly, Sgt J L Jones and Sgt R H Trafford failed to return and are remembered on the Runnymede Memorial.

Danny42C
12th Feb 2017, 13:39
JW411 (#10187),
...he replied that he thought they were firing a cannon at him...
Recalls the "Tee Emm" story of the Fighter Pilot, who in his Combat Report stated: "I thought it might be a Hurricane, so I only gave it a short burst....."

For which "Guarded Recognition" he was awarded the month's Highly Derogatory Order of the Irremovable Digit by Wg Cdr Spry.

And how about the "Battle of Barking Creek" ?

Danny42C.

JW411
12th Feb 2017, 13:52
The man who got me into aviation had dozens of Tee Emm magazines and he used to get me to read them (I learned a lot). My memory is not what it used to be but was the good show award the MDOVO (Most Desirable Order of the Vacated Orifice)?

Geriaviator
15th Feb 2017, 11:20
During happy times with the Khormaksar Kids 65 years ago I used to devour the copies of Tee Emm brought home by my father, together with other publications and aircraft recognition cards which I still have. His intention was to distract me from making a pestilential nuisance of ourselves around the station; it worked, some of the time. Looking back, those old publications remain superbly written examples of clarity and brevity.

The other Kids enjoyed Dandy and Beano but I reckoned Tee Emm, the pilot training manual AP129 and the Bristol Brigand maintenance AP would be more useful when I was old enough to acquire my Lancaster. And they say today's children have problems ... being deprived of said Lancaster has had a lasting effect on me, I'm considering claiming against someone or something :8

Danny42C
15th Feb 2017, 13:42
JW411 (#10189),

I have a DVD of the complete Tee Emm series, would think they should be still obtainable on line.

Roaming around on the Net, stumbled on pure gold - a complete history of Carlstrom Field, Arcadia, FLA. - Google >

RAF TEE EMM Official Air Service Training Memorandum 1942 > RAF wings over Florida: Memories of World War II British air cadets > Purdue University ... Purdue e-Pubs ... Purdue University Press e-books OLD Purdue University Press ... 1-1-2000 ... RAF wings over Florida: Memories of World War II ... British air cadets ... Willard Largent.

I could write reams of comment, but will only note:

Page 15, Re: "egg production". At Leeming (?) the studes were warned off a mink farm, seems the aircraft noise put the males "off their stroke", as it were.

Page 16, Re: "There they would be expected to deal with the obstinate ways of the Vultee BT-13". So I was not the only one to find fault with that uncouth aircraft (cf my early Posts).

Page 16, Re: "welcome to British Cadets". All right for 42A ! (none of this for 42C, as I recall).

Page 17, Re: "There are no compelling explanations why the washout rate among Royal Air Force Arnold Plan cadets was twice that of the RAF cadets who went through one of the British Flying Training Schools" (BFTS)". Nor can there be now - it's all too long ago.

Page 18, Re: "hazing", (advanced as one of the reason reasons for above)

There are some 40 more fascinating pages of this. Worth a look !

Danny.

Chugalug2
15th Feb 2017, 20:53
Well done, Danny! Here is the link to the .pdf ebook:-

http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=press_ebooks

which I have duly downloaded into my PPRuNe Folder (Right Click = Save As) for perusal at my leisure (not much of that these days!). Sad that the author died a couple of years after completing it, and that his Son-in-Law published it in his memory.

In return may I propose this site :-

Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: Florida, Ft. Myers area (http://www.airfields-freeman.com/FL/Airfields_FL_FtMyers.htm)

Some very good aerial photos of Carlstrom half-way down an exceedingly long page!

BTW I seem to remember that most of the prohibited areas on the low level charts in the 60s were Mink Farms!

Ian Burgess-Barber
16th Feb 2017, 09:08
Danny (great that you are back in THE chair) and Mr Chugalug2. I am sure that you will enjoy Will Largent's "RAF Wings over Florida (Memories of World War 11 British Air Cadets). As you may recall, (if not, my posts 5509 and 5519, Page 276, April 2014 refer to this book as one of my main sources for my slender contribution to this great thread). Indeed Danny, by Page283, your post 5642, you too had found it of interest.

Will Largent was a former journalist who flew in WW 11 on B-26 bombers as a USAAC crew member. He was awarded the Purple Heart, the Air Medal with nine oak-leaf clusters, four combat ribbons, and the French Croix de Guerre.

His interviews with the cadets and instructors give us such a vivid picture of the training environment in Florida.

Ian BB

Chugalug2
16th Feb 2017, 10:35
IB-B, thank you for reminding us of the salad days of this thread when we had so many contributing to the OP theme. That we have rarely proceeded in a linear fashion, but flit and wander as we please, is to my mind testament to the very nature of this virtual crew room. Researchers will have rich veins to mine within these pages, but they will have to mine deep and search its entirety for their needs. In return they will be rewarded with abundance.

Now that we have returned to Carlstrom here are two YouTube videos of it. A sort of before and after:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyDo795tE3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3rBmJJKtA&t=71s

MPN11
16th Feb 2017, 14:50
The loops and whorls of this thread have been fantastic since I found it.

There's an argument for someone with mahoosive time on their hands to create a simple index of topics, and just where they started. I know about Wiki-posts on other forums ... I shall explore how they work here. (Edit = seems familiar!)

Danny42C
16th Feb 2017, 16:01
Chugalug,

Thank you for the the three links - the first is clearly the short way into the Carlstrom story, and the second the amazing Youtube of the "abandoned house" and the "ghost town" of Florida. It's a "Marie Celeste" situation, isn't it ? Florida is not Darkest Africa, for pete's sake ! How come they can "lose" a town ? And in what fine conditoh do the buildings appear to be, and the roads and footpaths. Please step forward, any resident of Florida on this frequency, and explain to us how this came about !


Your third link would not 'play', not on Internet Explorer nor on Google Chrome, which is all I've got. But no matter, we've seen enough to whet our appetite. It so happens that another skeleton has tumbled out of the closet, so to speak. During my time at Leeming, two of our new Controllers, Paul Harris and Bob McEvoy, presented me with a line drawing of a Vultee Vengeance. It was of professional quality, clearly Paul was an expert draughtsman and I think Bob had coloured it. I had not set eyes on it for fifty years.

I have moved into my daughter Mary's house to end my days. Our old house is only three doors away; we are (well, Mary is !) clearing it for sale. The drawing turned up: they had drawn two aerial wires from the tail, one to the mast on top, and a lower one clearly going to a wingtip ! (the drawing was side view). They would have researched this, it would be accurate. (You'll remember how we puzzled over this wire).

I would scan it and Post the drawing on here if only I could. One day someone may come along to do it for us.
...............................

Ian BB,

Yes, Will Largent (RIP) wrote a wonderful story - and in what detail ! But he was a journalist after all, and I suspect had 'gilded the lily' more than somewhat. AFAIK, the only times I was in Arcadia were on arriving and departing by train; I do not recall any tumultuous welcome nor fond farewell. Perhaps by 42C (three months later), we'd outstayed our welcome.

Cheers, both, Danny.

MPN11
16th Feb 2017, 16:15
During my time at Leeming, two of our new Controllers, Paul Harris and Bob McEvoy, presented me with a line drawing of a Vultee Vengeance. It was of professional quality, clearly Paul was an expert draughtsman and I think Bob had coloured it. I had not set eyes on it for fifty years.How nice! I used to produce that sort of thing in the 70's, at Eastern and LATCC, to supplement my pittance. Never realised Paul and Bob were doing it back then.

Nearly all my work was on A3 paper, so too big to scan on a domestic device, and of course virtually all gone to whoever commissioned it!

JW411
16th Feb 2017, 16:41
Thank you Danny and Chugalug; the Carlstrom Field links are quite fascinating and, having had a look at Google Earth, it's amazing that so much of it is still there. It is a real time warp.

Danny42C
16th Feb 2017, 16:43
MPN11,

My advice would be - "Don't bother !" The beauty of this Best Thread Ever is that it "wanders lonely as a cloud / that floats on high o'er vales and hills". And our wise Moderators have long since given up on us as incorrigible, and left us to it.

For a long time (if you except "Stickies" and "Capcom", which are special cases), it had the most Posts and, the most 'hits' of any Thread on "Military Aviation". Then recently "F-35 Cancelled....." displaced us in respect of the number of Posts - but now we are coming up fast on the inside rails and I hope we'll soon get our nose in front (where it belongs).

Give the stove a poke - put the kettle on ! - Raise a mug to the memory of our Founder, Cliff Leach .......

Cheers, Danny.

Ian Burgess-Barber
16th Feb 2017, 17:03
Mr Chugalug2

Enjoyed the Carlstrom Army Airfield video but had to giggle at 4.40 when picture said RAF 1941 - while seeing RN matelots with torpedo in front of a Fairy Albacore, and again at 9.30 RAF Sterman (sic) with two more fellows in sailor hats!

Danny

My dad didn't get a tumultuous welcome in Sept. 1942 either - but he did recall that when the train was being re-coaled and watered before they reached Clewiston the locals took the RAF "Kids" off the train for food and orange juice in the station waiting room - when they reboarded they found a bag of oranges on each of their seats - an unbelievable luxury as no such bounty had been seen in the UK for years.

And no Danny, you hadn't outstayed your welcome - you just weren't a novelty anymore.

Ian B-B

JW411
16th Feb 2017, 17:28
MPN 11,

Do you think there is something about some Air Trafficers and artists coming from the same mould?

I had a good friend on my ITS course at South Cerney in 1960 who came from Rhodesia and he was destined to become an AEO. It was obviously difficult for Hugh to go back home on leave so he used to come back with me to my family in Scotland.

Anyway, he did not get on too well for some reason with the AEO game and re-mustered into ATC.

We just about managed to keep in touch and many years later I was driving back to Brize on a Friday afternoon from an interview with Air Secs branch (I wanted to PVR and they wanted me to go for Specialist Aircrew).

I decided to pop into Benson on the way back for TGIF and hopefully to have a beer with Hugh; which I did

To cut a long story short, I had been involved in running an RAFGSA gliding club for 17 years in my spare time and I had been asked what I would like as a present when I retired. I told them that I would just like them to replace all of the tools that they had borrowed from me over the years!

Come the retirement party at Weston on the Green; instead of getting a tool kit, I was presented with the most wonderful oil painting of Belfast XR365 "Silly Old Hector"! It was one of the few occasions in my life when I was speechless.

Imagine my amazement when I discovered that it had painted by Hugh (he had given me absolutely no clues when I had met him at Benson a few weeks before).

"Silly Old Hector" hangs in pride of place in my lounge and I still have not figured out how Hugh has managed to paint it such that the cloud colours change quite dramatically whether it is a bright day or a dull one.

Perhaps it is such hidden talents that allow our Air Trafficers to keep us apart and our Fighter Controllers to get us together.

Danny42C
16th Feb 2017, 18:26
JW411,

I don't think that there was any general case that Air Trafficers were of greater artistic merit than the average. Perhaps they were inspired by the constantly changing cloudscapes and light on the other side of the triple-glazing. (Except for the poor troglodytes of Area Radar, who, like Fighter Controllers, spent their days immured deep down in their caves and never saw the light of day, like pit ponies).

Even the popular myth that the WRAF "Stunners" (officers and airwomen) were routed into ATC was/is (?) not universally true, but I have "ever found it so - Benedicamus Domino". :ok: (Apologies to Belloc or Chesterton ?)

Danny.

Chugalug2
16th Feb 2017, 20:31
Danny, I'm not sure which of my links doesn't work for you. You don't mention the "Fort Myers" one which includes Carlstrom and its many satellites. It works for me, but I'll post it again in case your PC relents and grudgingly decides to co-operate:-

Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: Florida, Ft. Myers area (http://www.airfields-freeman.com/FL/Airfields_FL_FtMyers.htm)

Similarly there were two YouTube links, the first of which was made up of old photos and videos of Carlstrom:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyDo795tE3U

If that doesn't play, a search on YouTube for "Carlstrom Army Air Field" (sic) should find it.

The "Ghost Town" one you obviously watched. I wonder if you recognised any of the old Carlstrom amongst all the later additions? The circular roadway that is so dominant in the old photos seems to be where a lot of it was filmed from.

Yes, IBB, I too wondered that the RAF was credited with the Albacore, the hats, and the wellies! To be fair though, they were all Brits at least! I was intrigued by the American parade at 9.09 captioned as "Class 44H War Bound Parade in Arcadia". Should it be "War Bonds"? Though on second thoughts either could be right...

Danny42C
17th Feb 2017, 13:46
Chugalug (#10203),

I didn't try the "...Abandoned & Little-Known Airfields: Florida, Ft. Myers area..." - but there must be dozens of 'em, most wartime RLGs, I suppose, long since returned to nature.

The second link came up all right (the one with the pics of Carlstrom Field). I didn't recognise any pictures of Carlstrom buildings in the Ghost Town.

Couldn't get the third (last) one up at all.
...Class 44H War Bound Parade in Arcadia...
The sense here is that they were "bound" for action in the war. Now "44H" would've graduated in August '44. If RAF, it would have been September before they'd cleared Canada and got back to UK. Add four months for messing about and an OTU, and they couldn't have got to their squadrons much before January '45 - and the end was then in sight.

But the Arnold Scheme last RAF graduates finished around September '43.......? Probably what was "bound for war" here in Arcadia were USAAC cadets, graduated as 2/Lieuts.

Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.

It is a sombre thought that the number of States-trained British Pilots (ie 'Arnold' plus BFTS) - around 7,500 +, would just about equal the pilot losses in Bomber Command (say 1/7 of the 55,000 +). This shows what an enormous boon the US Flying Training was to us, as an addition of the EFTS output.

Danny.

Wander00
17th Feb 2017, 16:30
As an observer at Neatishead I always reeckoned that amongst FCs there was a higher than normal percentage of left handed people

MPN11
17th Feb 2017, 18:37
As an observer at Neatishead I always that amongst FCs there was a higher than normal percentage of left handed people
I couldn't possibly comment!

But then my 'hand' became shifted when working the MPN11 truck. Watch on the right wrist, to be able to read the dial under the [essentially] feeble pea light above the Comms switches.

And during the years on the T82 at Eastern, with a right-hand joystick and numerous left-hand comms and other panels, I guess I became a bit amphibious :)

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/Equipment.%20Type%2082.%201.%20Controllers%20Console.jpg

I now use my computer mouse with my left hand, enabling a free right hand to hit "ENTER"/whatever for speed and ergonomic convenience. Funny the way old habits/customs persist.

Chugalug2
18th Feb 2017, 08:23
MPN11, what an iconic piece of kit is your "typical Controller Console as used in RAF Area Radar Units in the 1960 - 1990 period. One can attempt ( and probably fail!) to sort the various additions and mods that it attracted in those years; by style, colour, and technology. One can see how the hue of the original subtlety changed. Was that by revised standards, ageing effects, or simply layers of nicotine?

Would it not have been at home in a miniaturised version in an episode of Thunderbirds? I can also see a chap wearing a dinner plate sized hat feeling similarly at home, and adding further to the knee wear in some Soviet bunker or other. As I say, iconic.

MPN11
18th Feb 2017, 09:19
A worn and weary T82 console! Essentially 'green', the 'armrests' have had the paint worn away over the years! Certainly a "No Smoking" environment, so no nicotine involved!!

Considering the time I spent working these, I find myself struggling slightly to recall what all the bits actually were! I'll try and decode, starting top left and going clockwise:


40-way landline comms. Up for Assistant, down for Controller, and all capable to being 'patched' to anyone else on the panel. Also capable of multiple patching when required. The top 2 rows are internal, the lower two rows external.
T82 Radar display. Many consoles had a 2nd display mounted above, being fed from the T84/T85 at a friendly local GCI station via microwave links.
Pale green 'shiny box' is, IIRC, the SSR (Mode 3) control panel that determined what codes were displayed?
Below that is the joystick, which moved a circle on the display. That was then used to select 'store dots' over the radar return, which the Tracker then controlled to follow your aircraft. The dots displayed small numbers on-screen, enabling other controllers to identify who was controlling that a/c and then coordinate with you.
Behind the joystick is the Height meter - on request your Height Finder Operator would get a reading of height from the stacked beam antenna.
Across the front are the R/T frequency switches. Usually just one in use per controller, plus 243.00 [the black switch?], but one could select other controllers' frequencies to monitor proceedings. Frequency distribution was also managed by a massive 'spaghetti junction box' at the back of the room.
The bank of 8 switches above that are, IIRC, the store dot selectors, which you allocated to each aircraft that came under control. Usually only 4 dots per console [the A or B position] - this shows #6 still available for use.
Tucked away at the back, at desk-top level, is the big black rotary switch for radar beam selection. To minimise ground clutter, one could use 'high beams' if operating a/c above FL245. The other switches there are lost to memory fade!
Finally, the small light green box below the landline panel is an interface to the electronic Tote Board, where the Assistant would dial in the height of each store dot [and also 'climbing/descending' indicators if appropriate] to facilitate inter-console coordination. So the store dot number on the radar display would be correlated with the Tote indication of height, and the relevant controller contacted by landline.


Or something like that!

It was all much prettier in the semi-darkness, of course, with loads of little lights glowing ... and the wear and tear being invisible :)

More pictures here >>> https://atchistory.wordpress.com/2016/09/18/eastern-radar-jatcru-raf-watton/
And some training notes here, which I wish I'd found/read before posting the above! https://atchistory.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/lindholme-part-1.pdf
Pages 8-18 may explain a bit more, or utterly confuse you!

Danny42C
18th Feb 2017, 12:40
MPN11,

Do you honestly mean to say that they left you alone to operate that without a competent NCO by your side ?

Did it make the tea as well ? (otherwise no use in ATC).

Danny.

MPN11
18th Feb 2017, 14:11
No, Danny42C ... after our maximum 2 hours on console we headed to the Crewroom, where the Tea Bar operator provided the essentials. One crewroom for Controllers, and the other side for the Assistants. Of course, if you were on a Centralised Approach Control (CAC) console, you could take a break if there were no planned Recoveries/Departures ... leaving your Assistant to monitor the landlines and r/t.

All this was managed by the Allocator, up on the bridge, who allocated general traffic to consoles and kept track of who needed a break (the SNCO i/c watch managed the Assistants breaks ... Control Assistant, Tracker, Height Finder, Tote). It was deemed rather improper if a CAC controller had to be summoned from the Crewroom via the loadspeaker having forgotten an ETA/ETD :eek:

With 14 control positions to manage, and taking calls from adjacent Units for handover to the appropriate controller, Allocator could be a busy position ... with nearly all the work done on landlines. Oh, it was satisfying ... and fun! Sorry you missed out :) :)

Lyneham Lad
18th Feb 2017, 14:26
I happened to wander around South Cerney churchyard on Thursday, armed with my trusty Hasselblad 500C. Developed the film this morning and the photo below shows some of the wartime graves there.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2548/32930432626_8a2401b77d_o.jpg

Chugalug2
18th Feb 2017, 19:10
Sgts Warren and Harry were both at 3SFTS RAF South Cerney, the third almost certainly was as well. So young, still in training, and right at the start of the war. The waste of it all...

Here is Edward Charles Warren's CWGC entry:-

Casualty Details (http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2451569/WARREN,%20EDWARD%20CHARLES)

Here is a list of all 25 military graves at All Hallows churchyard, South Cerney:-

http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/GLS/SouthCerney/MIs.html

Those dated 24th March 1969 relate to the tragic loss of Hercules CMk1 XV180 at RAF Fairford (also while training).

Lyneham Lad
18th Feb 2017, 22:03
On the same visit:-
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2771/32590477270_7778f0ecf2_o.jpg

JW411
19th Feb 2017, 11:56
Fg Off Robin Plumtree was the son of AVM Eric Plumtree. When the latter was a young Plt Off, he served as a Blenheim pilot on 53 Squadron. On 27 October 1940, he set off from Detling to attack shipping off Den Helder in T2132/R. He and his crew ended up in a running battle with three Bf 110s of ZG76.

Plt Off Plumtree, Sgt Wood and Sgt PM Kinsey were badly injured and their aircraft was very badly damaged but they managed to land at Martlesham Heath. Plt Off Plumtree was awarded the DFC two days later and Sgt Kinsey the DFM.

He retired as an AVM and settled into a nearby village just behind my local pub. I shared the odd drink with "Plum" and his good lady. He still had bits of shrapnel in his head from the Bf 110 encounter and later in his life the shrapnel started to give him trouble.

It seemed totally ironic to me that he had managed to survive this attack and several other events in WW II and here was his son getting killed on a training flight on a 4-engined C-130 aircraft in peacetime.

Chugalug2
20th Feb 2017, 09:54
Training has always taken its toll, some 3000 alone dying at Bomber Command OTUs. They are rightly included in the 55,575 commemorated on the London Memorial. As Danny reminds us at post 10204:-

It is a sombre thought that the number of States-trained British Pilots (ie 'Arnold' plus BFTS) - around 7,500 +, would just about equal the pilot losses in Bomber Command (say 1/7 of the 55,000 +). This shows what an enormous boon the US Flying Training was to us, as an addition of the EFTS output.


Those trained like he in North America as pilots barely kept pace with that terrible loss rate. The cost of freedom in peace or war is prodigious, be it measured in blood or treasure. It is though a cost that we have to bear if we treasure that freedom.

Danny42C
20th Feb 2017, 11:09
Chugalug,

How true ! In "The Song Of The Dead" by Rudyard Kipling, he speaks of the Navy, but the words are applicable to all the Services:

"....If blood be the price of admiralty, Lord God, we ha' paid in full...."

Danny.

camlobe
20th Feb 2017, 19:38
A belated Happy New Year to one and all. Danny, glad to read that you bounced back after your recent 'hiccup' and are continuing to lead us onwards on our merry and wandering route through aviation history.

Speaking of history, Chugalug's reference to the 55,57+ lives lost in Bomber Command was brought home to me during my last tour in the RAF, over 20 years ago. Life being a funny old thing, I find myself presently in the company of other ex-military types (three ex-RAF, one ex-REME, and one ex-RNZAF) currently engaged on the Major Inspection of the RAF Lancaster PA474. Non of us consider ourselves 'old men', although we are 'old sweats'. Inter-service rivalry, along with the easy banter all ex-military personal enjoy, help make this a labour of love, not a job. Don't misunderstand me, we are getting paid. But we are all in agreement, we are not here for the money.
One example of how this task is out of the ordinary is the daily crewroom conversations. Normally, in the world of Contractor Engineering, the topics will vary between which agency is paying the most this week, and where are the best digs for the next planned contract. Not us, and not here. To give an example, after we first gathered for this task, and compared notes with each other, we realised that each of us was reasonably read in our chosen field, and that field was historic aviation. So much so that by the end of the first week, the Kiwi turned around and said 'I thought I knew a lot about historic aviation...and then I met you lot!'
The Lancaster we can keep in good health without too much difficulty. Generally, parts are available, and there are a few firms out there who can continue to overhaul the Merlin engines and the DeHavilland propellers. There are also small pockets of engineering excellence where many of the 'old' skills are still found. Two days ago, I even met a gentleman who spins for a living. Not a politician, but a genius who can spin a flat piece of metal into an aircraft spinner, just the way they were made 70 years ago.
Unfortunately, we are unable to keep the former crews, both ground and air, in the same health with the same ease. So, we continue to treasure the contributions of Danny's generation, and those generations that have followed.

On behalf of the 'Lanc Team', I thank and salute you all.

camlobe

MPN11
20th Feb 2017, 19:51
camlobe ... and thank you, and your oily colleagues, for continuing to keep PA474 in the air. :ok:

"Living History" can take many forms. ;)

It was later announced that with the ongoing maintenance, PA474 should still be airworthy until 2065.
Which is more than can be said for many of us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster_PA474

Chugalug2
21st Feb 2017, 06:50
I once had the privilege of a flight in PA474 which I have already described on this thread. Suffice to say the 20mins pax flight went straight into my Log Book. The aircraft was immaculate, the aircrew volunteers (with the exception of the two pilots, one the OC BBMF the other his replacement). The "second Dickie" position was installed for the former to check the latter out.

The occasion was the 900th Anniversary of the city of Newcastle, for which we were escorted by a couple of the flight's Spitfires. It certainly impressed me as I am sure it did those on the ground. The Flight is a great advert for the RAF just as it is a tribute not only to those who served in the BoB, but in the RAF generally in WWII, and especially in Bomber Command. Personally, if it ever came to a choice between the BBMF and the Red Arrows surviving the constant cuts prevalent these days, I would choose the BBMF. Sacrilege to some perhaps, but the sound of close formation Merlins is the very sound of freedom mentioned previously.

Well done camlobe, I echo MPN11's thanks for your good work. Any chance of some pics being posted of 474's rebirth?

Danny42C
21st Feb 2017, 14:30
camlobe (#10217),

Ta ! (glad to be back),
...a genius who can spin a flat piece of metal into an aircraft spinner, just the way they were made 70 years ago...
Pity that, 77 years ago, they didn't get him to make a few for the "Battles" - and complete what was really quite a graceful aircraft design ! (I'm sure Geriaviator would agree).

Danny.

Geriaviator
21st Feb 2017, 15:02
https://s9.postimg.org/56z2z1g4v/11_dailycheck.jpg

Danny: Agreed the Battle nose looked unfinished, but the engine was so tightly cowled that there seems little room to attach a spinner. My father used to say that the Battles needed a lot more than spinners to save them. This pic, by the way, shows Cpl Davies of 142 Sqn doing his daily checks at Berry-au-Bac, France, in early 1940. Note the single forward-firing gun in the starboard wing. Within a few months most of the Battles were destroyed with horrendous losses.

On a happier note, I called into an old haunt the other day to find a beautifully rebuilt Tiger Moth with shiny new cowlings created by a company in Cambridge, I was so pleased to find that the old skills still exist. Last time I saw this done was at RNAY Sydenham where I was privileged to be a guest in 1971. I arrived for my weekend flight to find that the Fleet Air Arm thought my scruffy 1941 cowlings were lowering the tone of their shiny Sea Vixens and had very kindly replaced them, in exchange for which I was happy to fly almost everyone on the airfield :)

https://s20.postimg.org/x1x297sx9/TM_sydenham.jpg

Danny42C
21st Feb 2017, 15:18
Geriaviator,

Glad your pic has been taken down (or at least on my laptop), there are just red crosses; and, if you remember, a while ago you gave me your gracious permission to use it in the (unlikely) event of my winning the CapCom ?

Hope that still stands ?

Danny.

Danny42C
21st Feb 2017, 16:04
On a Post long ago (I cannot trace it now), I told of a famous "Daily Mirror" cartoon from WWII. The scene is set in mid-Atlantic. Against a darkening sky, over on the horizon, a torpedoed, burning tanker sinks.

In the foreground, spreadeagled on a piece of floating wreckage, soaked in fuel oil, a lone merchant seaman, lies dead or dying.

The Caption ?....."The Price of Petrol will be increased by one half-penny per gallon from midnight tonight".

Suddenly, "knocking off" a gallon of aircraft or MT fuel for your car didn't seem such a good idea, after all.

Danny.

Geriaviator
21st Feb 2017, 17:08
Danny, there was some problem with the image website. Of course you're welcome to use it, drop me PM if you need a copy, and good luck!

camlobe
21st Feb 2017, 19:34
Gentlemen,
Many thanks for your kind comments. I shall pass them on to the rest of the Lanc Team.

Chug, understandably (I suppose) the RAF have expressed there desire for a curfew on the release of private pictures of '474's progress. However, ARCo (the Aircraft Restoration Company at Duxford, the organisation tasked with the Major Inspection, have their own Facebook page, and there are many photographs detailing the Lanc's improving health.
Of course, once the Major Inspection has been completed and '474 is back at Coningsby, I suspect many private pictures may well become public. And as well as taking many snaps of the old girl, I have been following the progress with cartoon renditions on our impromptu notice board.

Of course, you must appreciate, this contract is taking slightly longer than originally planned due to aerial distractions at Duxford, especially the Merlin and Griffon powered ones.

(Sigh) It's a hard life, but someone has to do it, so it might as well be me. I'll take this one for the team.

Camlobe

Fareastdriver
22nd Feb 2017, 15:46
Having been enthralled by the tales of Fairey Battles I went on my mid term two weeks leave in Singapore. I stayed in Temple Hill Officer’s Mess at Changi which was convenient to Changi Villiage. There I availed myself of an Akai M8 reel-to-reel tape recorder plus two enormous speakers that came with it. I had only just learned how to set it up and I was recalled to Labuan. A panic to get it on the Valetta and then I was back on the Squadron.

The plan was for me to go to Tawau and stay there until that part was wrapped up. It was going to be at least six weeks so that meant it was a full personal pack to take with me. Sepulot had missed a couple of fuel drops so I was taking full en-route fuel so this plus my kit and spares for Tawau almost filled up my aircraft. There was some desperate reason for carrying some freight from a unit in Brunei and after picking that up I started on a lonely flight along the border to Tawau.

I flew past Long Pasir, the strip still showing the large patch of different coloured earth where the first, and only, Air Portable Grader, had met its end when the parachutes failed. Keeping the border ridge well to starboard a trio of hills pointing northwards, one with a large catapult shaped tree which identified it as the entrance to the Kabu valley where I had lunched on monkey and rice. Pensiangan passed on my left and then I plunged into unknown territory off the normal routes from Sepulot. The compass was my only guide but after a time the scenery wore a familiar face and then I passed over one of our forward clearings from a completely different than normal direction.

The tree covered saddle halfway between Sepulot and Tawau came into view and I was on familiar ground. Over the clearing where we had done the night trial and there was Wallace Bay glistening in the distance. The maps went away as I tracked along the river and arrived in Tawau, my backside sore after two-and-half hours in the most uncomfortable seat in the RAF.

I followed the normal routine; a flight every other day, daily sizzling steaks and stud poker. After three weeks or so came the news that the squadron was being recalled to the UK.

Both 225 and 230 Squadrons belonged to 38 Group, Air Transport Command, and they were detached to FEAF for the duration. 225 had been disbanded and absorbed into 103/110 Sqns FEAF so the rumour was that 38 Group wanted to get their hands back on 230 Sqn before they lost it. The Harrier Force was just coming into being and the plan was that there would be a helicopter squadron in direct support and 230 was the only UK Whirlwind squadron available.

Other bells were ringing. The Navy had moved from Bario in Sarawak to Sepulot. Our squadron had left Sepulot and was now holding the fort at Bario until the Singapore squadrons took over in Labuan. They already operated from Kuching up to Nanga Ghat so that would mean that the whole of Sarawak would be supported by Singapore Whirlwinds and the Navy would only look after Sepulot.

The British Army units in our area had started wrapping up and handing over to the Malaysian Army. The RMAF would be their helicopter support so eventually came the final farewells and I took another fully loaded Whirlwind off towards Sepulot to refuel en-route to Labuan.

Arriving at Sepulot I landed on the end of the strip to see what had changed. Two Wessexs took up the entire dispersal area and they had positioned the fuel drums on the other side of the airstrip. They should have known I was coming and eventually a matelot in shorts waved his hands furiously to direct me to the refuelling point. Two others joined him and there was a shouting match for a time as one who was not familiar with the Whirlwind tried to undo the engine reduction gearbox tank filler cap to shove the fuel in. He was corrected and the fuelling progressed. Shortly afterwards somebody with some rings on their shoulder climbed up the side and started shouting the odds about me not talking to some bloke called Flyco. I ignored that and when I had enough fuel I waved them off and punched off to Labuan.

Confrontation was coming to an end and apart from some diehards crossing the border and being chased by Ghurkhas there was little else happening. The first of 103 and 110 Squadrons had arrived including some who had been on my helicopter course at Tern Hill. I was not required to go to Bario so I spent my time doing local tasking and training for the UK environment, e.g. underslung loads and winching.

I already had a date for going back; 14th September 1966 and on the 26th August I was told that I was going to Sepulot for two weeks!

Next: Rescuing the Navy

Danny42C
22nd Feb 2017, 17:17
FED (#10226),
...Confrontation was coming to an end...
Was on standby for that caper. They jabbed me for every tropical disease known to man except beri-beri and paid for one of the very last big, beautiful, blue and gold British Passports for me. Was wearing my RAF greatcoat for the photo, which rather contradicted my "profession" as stated inside ("Government Official"). Or words to that effect, as I know I've still got it somewhere, but can't find it now (happens a lot these days). The little red EU passport was a poor thing in comparison.

Was at Shawbury at the time, instructing at the Air Traffic Control School. But they didn't send me out, and managed without me. Just as well, as my Ayesha would've been livid. (I mean, who'll mow the lawn and walk the dog now ?) Perhaps, at 44 or so, I was judged a bit 'long in the tooth' to go back to the jungle.

Wiki shows us this. Were you on them ?https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/British_forces_in_Borneo_during_Confrontation.jpg/300px-British_forces_in_Borneo_during_Confrontation.jpg

Danny.

Fareastdriver
22nd Feb 2017, 18:27
Not on that Danny, that a Navy Wessex. More about them Later.

Fareastdriver
22nd Feb 2017, 20:06
The Royal Air Force aircraft serving cycle used to have large chunks of effort called Minor and Major Servicing. The Navy did not do this; they used a system called Progressive Servicing. This involves changing components that are time expired on a progressive basis so that the aircraft is very rarely in a position where a massive amount of work has to be done. Ideal for carrier operations as the full complement is usually available for the whole of the cruise and the big bits are done in the dockyards. However, this may work very well on carriers because, on the fixed wing side, there is a steady supply of spares being scraped off the deck but it doesn’t work in the jungle when most of your squadron is hundreds of miles away at sea.

In others words, both the RN Wessex at Sepulot were AOG. They needed a Whirlwind in a hurry and I, apparently, was the most experienced pilot on the squadron and most able to cope with this sudden demand. With flattery like that what else could I do but get airborne the next day.

There were three of us. They didn’t give me a crewman, just an cpl airframe and a cpl engines both empowered to oversign each other. We sallied forth and on arriving I tried to call this bloke called Flyco but there was no success. On landing I was marshalled to a separate pad and it became obvious that there was nothing organised for us whatsoever, they just walked away.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/1-1-2010_008.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fareastdriver/media/1-1-2010_008.jpg.html)

My airmen assured me that they would sort themselves out and I wandered up to the old aircrew mess. There I was met by a Petty officer who informed me that I was bunked in the Ghurkha Officer’s Mess. Being the Ghurkhas they gave me a room instead of a cabin and as I knew most of them I settled in.

The room was excellent. A proper bed with an enormous mosquito net hanging from the ceiling. White sheets and pillows, with a sideboard and a fabric wardrobe in the corner. Dinner was taken on bone china with the regimental crest, ornate cutlery and the barman would serve your Tiger beer in silver goblets.

The Navy seemed to want to avoid me. I really wanted to find out what the score was with any changes to various landing zones but they were non-committal. There was also a shortage of them. Two Wessex means six pilots for full cover and there were only two of them. It appeared that as the aircraft were going to be sick for some time the surplus had departed by various means on leave which I thought was an excellent idea.

Halfway through the evening a Ghurkha waiter told me that I was wanted. I looked over the side and there were my two corporals. I confirmed with them that they were being fed and watered and then they asked me how much I was paying for my beer. I told them that it was the normal 50c/can as it always was. With this they asked me to supply them with a slab of Tiger beer. No problem, the barman took a cold slab out of his big refrigerator. I passed it down, $12 came up and I thought no more about it.

About an hour later that was another call from the floor, this time for the Navy Lt Cmdr. I didn’t know what it was about but one of the Ghurkha officers overheard and told me the story. It was the Chief Petty Officer beefing to his boss about my airmen undercutting their beer swindle. Apparently the P.O.s were charging the ratings $1 each for their beers thereby making a 100% mark up and our airmen were letting them go at cost. As they weren’t talking to me I could not address the situation.

There wasn’t a lot of flying during my final time there. Apart from a couple of company withdrawals from Pensiangan there were only the farewell trips for our Intelligence officer around the various longhouses. My Yaws victim was in excellent health and the scars were nearly gone but the biggest impression I had was when I went back to Kabu.

As you may remember I said in a previous post that we would fly around a longhouse before landing so that they had time to organise the children to hold the roof down against the helicopters downwash. After landing at Kabu it was apparent that most of the longhouse roof had been replaced. The story was simple. A Wessex, bigger and noisier than a Whirlwind, had come had come straight in with ‘The Navy’s Here’ and lifted the roof over into the sticks behind. As the IO gravely remarked. “ It’s lucky this little war is over otherwise they would be on the other side.”.

All good things come to an end and gathering up my airmen we flew back to Labuan. I had calculated that my Bates SD hat, lovingly bought with my £10 uniform allowance at South Cerney, had now achieved 1,000 hours airborne in some aeroplane of other. It was now decidedly worse for wear so I thought that a fitting end was for it to be perched on a tree in the middle of Borneo for as long as the tree stayed up and so it went out of the window. Not having any reports of Gibbons behaving like commissars I presume it is still up there.

An alcoholic farewell in Labuan. A semi alcoholic farewell in Singapore then to Paya Leba to catch a civvy Brittania back home. A refuel in Ceylon and then an engine ran down over the Arabian Gulf. Hello Kuwait, I shall be here until another engine comes out.

They took all our booze. To be fair , they gave it back to us when we left but we didn’t know that was going to happen. Kuwait was just starting to transform. There was one main street with half-a-dozen expensive shops showing ladies clothes that would not be out of place in Chelsea. By an old town gate there was a 56 Chevrolet, the same as my father once had, sitting there with flat tyres and bullet holes decorating the driver’s door. We walked Kuwait city in about an hour.

Two days later we were airborne again and into Gatwick. A long discussion about my Akai but eventually he admitted it was used and I was reunited with my wife with whom I had spent more time away than together during out married life.

Six weeks disembarkation leave and the Belfasts brought our aircraft home. XS 412, the last aircraft I flew in Borneo, was first back and the first one I flew in the UK.

Eighteen months later I was back in the Far East when I was posted to 110 Squadron. Borneo had finished then so it was just Malaysia and Hong Kong. In February 1971, 110 Sqn, Danny’s old squadron in India, disbanded and I had the privilege of flying in the final fly past

Then I started on the NEW Puma HC1 in the UK; but that’s a different story.

JW411
23rd Feb 2017, 10:14
The withdrawal from Labuan rang a bell so here are a couple of photographs for you. More to follow.

JW411
23rd Feb 2017, 10:34
And here as promised are more.

Geriaviator
23rd Feb 2017, 11:27
Great stories FED, even though I prefer my wings firmly bolted to the fuselage. More please!

MPN11
23rd Feb 2017, 12:58
Nice tales, FED, and good pics from JW411. Wow, posh seats instead of red webbing! That were luxury travel back then!!

Danny42C
23rd Feb 2017, 13:26
Fareastdriver (#10229),
...Chief Petty Officer beefing to his boss about my airmen undercutting their beer swindle. Apparently the P.O.s were charging the ratings $1 each for their beers thereby making a 100% mark up and our airmen were letting them go at cost...
The "Boss" would mean an officer, surely. This is blatant "robbibg my comrades !" Are you telling us that that a RN officer condoned this barefaced, gross swindle oprerated by the Petty Officers on their own men ?

I was a bit dubious about the 6d a week "Sports Subscription" (deducted from our pay of 2/- a day as airmen - what "Sports" ?), but this pales in comparison.

Union Jack, as a representative of the Senior Service, would you like to comment on this ?

FED, and JW411, keep 'em coming !

Danny.

JW411
23rd Feb 2017, 13:59
FED:

Looking at the original photographs, the two Whirlwinds being loaded into the Belfast are XP357 and XS412. I reckon the latter was your favourite aircraft. (XR412 was a Radioplane OQ-19 Drone).

Fareastdriver
23rd Feb 2017, 14:43
As I said before XS 412 was the last Whirlwind I flew in Borneo and the first I flew back in the UK. It was originally a Piston Engined Whirlwind 8 that belonged to the Queen's Flight. These were replaced by Whirlwind Series 3 which was a civilian version with lots of windows, etc. XS 412 was than modified as a Whirlwind 10 with a Gnome powerplant and issued to the Air Force. Because of its ancestry it had chrome plated handles on the side to enable you to climb into the cockpit.

I had a 'Royal Wave' experience later when I was, briefly, a passenger in a Wessex of the Queens Flight when it was repositioning at some high powered function.

(XR412 was a Radioplane OQ-19 Drone). ??????? You've got me on that one. (Edit. Got it, corrected).

Thanks for the pictures of our aircraft being loaded at Labuan; something I hadn't seen before. I remember when a Belfast arrived the captain was waxing lyrical about the ACR7 approach he had been given to Odiham.

"When I looked up all I could see were green fields."

Union Jack
23rd Feb 2017, 15:12
Union Jack, as a representative of the Senior Service, would you like to comment on this? - Danny

I must say that I am very surprised, Danny, and that it certainly wouldn't have happened on my watch, nor indeed would the apparent, and I hope very untypical, lack of welcome experienced by FED.:=

On the other hand, I am not totally surprised that FED got no response from the "bloke called Flyco"because Flyco or Flying Control is, unlike DetCo,an inanimate object rather than a bloke, and was probably unmanned at the time.

Going back to the matter of the beer swindle, was there a possibility that the senior ratings were very responsibly and thoughtfully trying to encourage the junior ratings not to drink so much. No, thought not.:D

Jack

JW411
23rd Feb 2017, 16:29
FED:

Fascinated to hear of the background to XS412. (I only mentioned XR412 because you mentioned it in post #10229).

Fareastdriver
23rd Feb 2017, 17:20
Way back when I was a callow youth my father, who had been an instructors at RAF Heany, in Rhodesia, in the fifties, decided to emigrate to said country when he left the Royal Air Force. I followed him shortly after when I had finished my O levels and settled in at Bulawayo. After a few months I was settled into a job at the Bulawayo Chronicle, the local rag.

As soon as I was eighteen I became liable for Rhodesian National Service and I went back to RAF Heany, now called Llewellyn Barracks, for my six months square bashing followed by two years one weekend/month reserve service. Shortly after this there was a period of political uncertainty called the Nyasaland Emergency.

A Dr Banda, ably assisted by the Church of Scotland, had returned to Nyasaland to stir it up. I was called up and being a battalion signaller, drove my truck all the way to Salisbury prior to getting permission from the Portuguese to cross Mozambique to Nyasaland. Owing to the situation I was flown by RRAF Dakota to Lilongwe were I ended up guarding the Post Office.

The situation eased and coincidently my signals truck arrived in a convoy that had driven via Tete in Mozambique. The decision to withdraw was the taken and the people who had driven up were going to be flown back and vice versa.

During our time at Lilongwe most of the shops were closed so essentials, like cigarettes, soap, razor blades etc. were difficult if not impossible to get therefore it was with great joy that our NCOs announced that they had obtained supplies and had opened a shop for the blokes. They were charging the normal price for everything and very soon the stock was exhausted.

I drove back to Bulawayo in a convoy that lasted four days through the Rift Valley, the Copperbelt, through Lusaka to Salisbury and eventually to Bulawayo. After I had been discharged I went back to the Bulawayo Chronicle.

"How did you get on with all the stuff we sent up to you?"
"What stuff?"
The cigarettes, razor blades, soap and toothpaste that was collected by the citizens of Bulawayo to send up to the troops. There were two truckloads of it."

You can see why I was not surprised about the fuel and beer at Sepulot.

Danny42C
23rd Feb 2017, 17:23
FED (#10236),
...I remember when a Belfast arrived the captain was waxing lyrical about the ACR7 approach he had been given to Odiham...
I don't think "lyrical" was, perhaps, the right word, given that his experience had been:
..."When I looked up all I could see were green fields." ...
All too reminiscent of the (apocryphical) story of the GCA "talkdown" student at Shawbury, who is supposed to have ended his spiel with the despairing: "Look around for the runway and crash visually - Talkdown Out !"

On return from RAF(G), where I revelled in the luxury of a CPN4, I was brought down to earth with a bang in '62 at Linton-on-Ouse, where they had an ACR7. Three years ago I wrote reams about this long obsolete beast here in my page 263 , #5255 (if anyone's interested). It was good gear, and good work could be done with it (Teesside Airport had the built-in version in their Tower at the time).

Danny.

Danny42C
23rd Feb 2017, 17:41
Geriaviator (#10222),

Your Pic is back (in all its glory !). My Fox well and truly shot. Never mind,

Danny.

Danny42C
24th Feb 2017, 11:48
Danny invites all of good wiil to join hin in the Cybercrewroom tonight for a noggin to celebrate the 73rd anniversity of the morning when he reduced a Vegeance to scrap in the Arakan - but he and his pal "Stew" (in the back seat) miraculously survived against all the odds. :ok:

The Devil looks after his own ?

Ian Burgess-Barber
24th Feb 2017, 13:37
Danny
To be sure and isn't it "The luck of the Irish" and, as you know yerself, "Only the good die young"
A drop of "The water of life" will be taken later to celebrate your happy anniversary. Slainte!
Ian B-B

Fareastdriver
24th Feb 2017, 15:38
JW411

I can only find these somewhat tatty pictures of the first Whirlwinds arriving at Odiham.

Perhaps you are in the second shot.

GlobalNav
24th Feb 2017, 15:50
Danny invites all of good wiil to join hin in the Cybercrewroom tonight for a noggin to celebrate the 73rd anniversity of the morning when he reduced a Vegeance to scrap in the Arakan - but he and his pal "Stew" (in the back seat) miraculously survived against all the odds. :ok:

The Devil looks after his own ?
Will gladly raise a glass in honor of your "lucky airmanship"!

I believe angels had more to do with that "landing" than the devil, who only destroys good things and people. You have given us so much laughter, information, appreciation and cyber-fellowship. Thank you. Here's to keeping on.

Geriaviator
24th Feb 2017, 16:03
Your Pic is back (in all its glory !)Of course, Danny, I arranged its resurrection as your anniversary present :rolleyes:
I join Globalnav in his sentiments, you give so much entertainment & info to so many.

ICM
24th Feb 2017, 16:18
Danny: At 10240 you mention the good work that could be done with an ACR7. RAF Salalah had one back in the mid-60s that had occasionally to be used for real - and that meant keeping its operator current on better days when we could see the airfield from miles away. I suspect that JW411 can remember more about this than I do.

JW411
24th Feb 2017, 17:03
FED:

I like the photographs; it's quite remarkable that, between us, we have come up with photographs of the beginning and the end of an exercise that took place over half-a-century ago. Indeed, it is even the same Belfast, XR369 "Spartacus". I am unlikely to be in your photograph since in 1966 I was still flying Argosys around the Middle East (with ICM).

In fact, the clever sods among you will have already noticed that XR369 has the old Belslow back end (where everything came to a neat taper). Sadly, this design resulted in the aircraft being about 11% down on designed performance so Shorts had to go back to the drawing board and find a solution.

The entire arse end was redesigned and that just about solved the problem. We called them Fastbacks and by the time I got there in 1972, I think they had all been modified.

I'll try and do a bit on the Salalah ACR 7 tomorrow.

Danny, I've just raised a glass to you.

Fareastdriver
24th Feb 2017, 17:51
about 11% down on designed performance

We heard that it couldn't get over the mountains on the Turkish Iranian border on three engines.

Union Jack
24th Feb 2017, 18:21
Danny invites all of good will to join him in the Cybercrewroom tonight for a noggin to celebrate the 73rd anniversity of the morning when he reduced a Vengeance to scrap in the Arakan - but he and his pal "Stew" (in the back seat) miraculously survived against all the odds. - Danny

Why thank you kindly, Sir - presumably the
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/g/gb~gin_g.gif

has now been hoisted close up, albeit for a Gordon's (private joke;)) rather than the Carew's you probably had that day.:D

The Devil looks after his own? - Danny

And how enormously pleased we all, amongst so many others closer to home, must be that he did....:ok:

Jack

MPN11
24th Feb 2017, 18:40
A votre santé, cher Danny42C.

Je vous lève mon verre de Calvados :)
.
.

Fareastdriver
24th Feb 2017, 19:53
I pulled out the 21 year old and had a couple of fingers of that; hic!