Robbie crash, Kroonstad South Africa June 2008

[Frikkie]

Look at this video of the Robbie crash.
http://www.news24.com/Die_Volksblad/Nuus/0,,5-83_2332994,00.html

Cheers
Frikkie
History of our once proud Forces:
http://www.samagte.co.za/phpbbs

[anartificialhorizon]

What was he trying to do ?

Was he trying to land back or do a low flypast that went wrong....?

Blooming lucky to get out by the look of it and the guy on the bike was lucky too !

[adrianasher]

Listening to it, just after it had flown overhead, the engine changes sound, seems to be quierter than I would expect.

what do others think?

amazed it survived as much as it did, the damage to that car on the way down too!

glad everyone seemed ok.

[heliboy999]

Looked quite windy by the looks of the trees. Possible Vortex ring on the approach.
The approach looked very fast, possible downwind approach???
The tail kicks out to the left (Nose right) which seems to indicate an increase in power during the flare, maybe it was just a mis-judged approach with too much speed into an restricted area.

Lucky escapes all round.

HB

[Spodman]

Wonder if the brain surgeon cameraman was smoking as he walked through the spilt fuel:confused::ugh::ugh:

[tegwin]

Im sure it mentions in the POH that you should shut off the fuel and isolate the main battery after a heavy landing...

So why are the landing lights still on?:ugh:

[droschke7]

seems to me that 4 inch High Heels would be too high off the ground for this guy :ugh: :=:D what a :mad:moron

[chopper_guy]

I say "Good on the camera man". He showed he was more human than cameraman when he rushed to help out and ruined some of his immediate post-crash shots.

[helimutt]

sounded like the blades slowed rapidly as it passed overhead the cameraman. Did it catch something? Had the engine quit? Nice of them to leave the battery on while avgas poured out. Looks like the pilot got out walking wounded, which is a good thing, watch how close the guy to the left of the a/c comes to buying the farm as the tail passes him.

[Wee Willy Winky]

Given the speed of the helicopter, Doppler shift would account for a considerable amount of the apparent slowing down of the blades as it passed overhear.

However it sounds as though the actual rpm decay was greater than Doppler could account for alone.

WWW
Quid pro quo

[DBChopper]

Im sure it mentions in the POH that you should shut off the fuel and isolate the main battery after a heavy landing...

So why are the landing lights still on?

Nice of them to leave the battery on while avgas poured out.

I'm only guessing, but I reckon the pilot and occupants are probably in a state of shock at this stage, probably also injured and not really thinking straight. I doubt there were any other pilots around so it is unlikely that anyone would even know what a master switch was, let alone find it and know it needed switching off. In an ideal world someone would have started moving everybody back to a safe distance but the ideal world doesn't exist just after such an accident - even bystanders find themselves in a state of shock and it takes a while for everyone to come to their senses.

[bvgs]

I know that POH says to switch off the master battery switch and I'm sure we can all see the logic in that, however, if you call the gas board and tell them you smell gas in your house they tell you not to touch any switches either off or on for fear of causing a spark and therefore an explosion. Just wondered if anyone had any views, its a fairley big relay that clicks when you through that switch. Personally I think it would be better off but wouldn't fancy being the guy to do it with all those avgas fumes around.

Regardless of what caused the accident, the flying before hand was dreadful. Lucky no one was killed.

[Whirlygig]

I thought I heard the pilot mutter "hydraulic failure".

Cheers

Whirls

[flyingaway]

For what it's worth, someone is repeatedly saying (in Afrikaans) that the hydraulics had malfunctioned.

[Flap 5]

I don't understand dutch, it may as well be double dutch to me, but someone mentioned 'hydraulic' when the occupants were being extracted from the wreck. Even so when I learned on the Bell 47 the instructor would regularly pull up the hydraulic off handle and I would have to fly it without hydraulics. The Robinson could easily be flown without hydraulics - with the correct training.

It just looked like it was going too fast and probably downwind as well to me.

[WylieCoyote]

Just a theory but how about over confident Pilot overpitched the a/c in windy conditions with a high auw,dumps the lever because the horn came on,hence the change in engine note(sounded alot like a machine in auto),then yanked in an armfull of pitch because he was so low,oh...and right over the top of a public area and about to hit a car! Overpitched again and crashed. Thats what it looks like to me,but then that's my opinion from looking at the video. Regarding not switching of power,fuel etc...I think thats called shock.
Hope the guy flying has got a decent excuse though because I think if that was the UK he'd be up there with `Nutter in Northern Ireland' but then atleast that guy didn't crash!

[g-mady]

Well its one hell of an effort for a Darwin Award ! Well done that man:D

That has to be one of the more shocking crash videos i've seen, amazing behaviour in such a public place, and loads of lamp posts about!

MADY

[Scissorlink]

:D good effort

[Ewe Turn]

Machine was an Astro so no hydraulics to fail unless it was one of the few that were retrofitted as an aftermarket modification?

As for the low rotor rpm horn coming on and the machine being at mauw who knows?

The temptation to bottom the lever when that horn goes is, however, great irrespective at what height you are at. That close to the ground and possibly downwind is a recipe for disaster.

Glad no one was killed and I hope the bakkie driver makes a quick recovery.

[cptjim]

Glad everyone made it out ok!

Here is some more info

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=20267

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=709895

[Freewheel]

Some of the later Robbo's had the Hydralic option - in fact so many selected hydralics that the electric trim was soon dropped - thus the Raven.

[Scissorlink]

Is the above report and video for the same crash????????

[Phoinix]

The pilot stated there was a decay in rotor rpm shortly after take-off when the helicopter was at a height of about 20m agl. It banked to the left, rapidly loosing height and in the flair hit the ground tail first. At the same time the Mazda pick-up approached and the helicopter's right skid hit the roof of the pick-up and shattered the windscreen. It then fell onto its left side and broke in two.

Well, luckily the pilot loosing RPM on T/O could still make a fast 360 turn and crash back where the people hang out...

[WylieCoyote]

Is it just me or is that narrative of the accident different to what we're seeing in the video,the aircraft is turning to the right not the left after takeoff,there is a slight drift to the left but that looks more like an attempt to miss the pick-up,the poor driver of which seems to be getting some of the blame for appearing in front of the 44! If there was a decay in rrpm why did he turn back towards the hotel,surely you'd continue into wind?

[topendtorque]

I agree with others, they are talking about a different crash with the quote below, or cannot tell the left from the right, - yaa.

It banked to the left, rapidly loosing height and in the flair hit the ground tail first.

In recips you live or die with the memorised sound of your engine and rotors, not the lights on the dash.

That engine either quit or was rolled off, the sound of the rotors in the final seconds of flight is definately the sound of one in autorotation.

So, i suggest,
Film crew?
cameras?

an auto demo totally f**** up?????

or

a simple explanation of the engine quitting just as the pilot did a smart arse turn back to where he did a heavy pull up to translate?

It would be good to see an overview of the surrounding country side before prejudging the accident to finger trouble.

I feel very sorry for the limo driver, however almost certainly with four occupants the fate of the machine in the final configuration just prior to motor car impact would have left very little room for a painless landing.

Before answering to mine, listen again to the sound of the RRPM.

[flyingaway]

The aircraft had hydraulics when I flew it a couple of years ago.

This flight was reported to be carrying three persons including 'stars' of a South Africa soapie. Kroonstad Airport is 4700', the sun was shining and it looks like a lot of fuel ran out.

There was another R44 incident (nose over during take off, then tail into ground, crash and burn) at Pietersburg Civil Airport during an air show a few days before so some accounts might be confusing the two.

[windowseatplease]

Well, it certainly sounded like an auto at the end. Maybe he was trying to do an auto, or came in too fast, saw the ground rushing up, panicked, pull the lever up, RRPM decay, and splat.

It's stuff like this that re-enforces the "why do helicopters always crash?" public mentality.

[Organgrinder]

indeed engine was not at flight idle. carb icing i recon.....**** happens..:=

[heliboy999]

Did the real cause of this crash ever come out?

Its been a while so the SA AAIB should have done their work?

HB999

[jim63]

Just lucky than nobody was killed or hurt.
LiveLeak.com - Helicopter Crash in Kroonstad, South Africa caught on camera!

NOVEMBER 2013, According to the CAA, The pilot made a statement that the hydraulic system of the helicopter had failed. The hydraulic system was tested after the accident and was found to be in a serviceable condition.

The pilot was caught off guard when he inadvertently selected the hydraulic switch to the off position instead of selecting the speaker to the on position and was therefore unable to control the aircraft prior to impact.

The pilot and two of the passengers were not injured, the passenger that was seated in the left front seat sustained minor injuries and was taken to hospital. The helicopter sustained substantial damage to the fuselage, main rotor blades, skid gear and tail boom.

[HeliComparator]

A switch can cut of hydraulics, but the helicopter should remain flyable, albeit with much heavier control forces. I can't imagine an aircraft designer making a helicopter with a switch that, if operated in flight, would result in complete loss of control for a competent pilot!

[SilsoeSid]

Google R44 hydraulic switch brings up loads;

Common occurrence it seems

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Robinson%20R44%20Clipper,%20G-DBUG%2002-10.pdf
R44 RAVEN II Hydraulic switch (http://www.robinsonhelicopters.org/forum/index.php?topic=485.5;wap2)
Pic of switch WATCH: Crazy Helicopter Crash In Kroonstad [VIDEO] | 2oceansvibe.com (http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2013/11/22/watch-crazy-helicopter-crash-in-kroonstad-video/)
Etc

[jimjim1]

I had a trial lesson in an R22 about, oh god, years and years ago. I was "in control" for almost the whole time (say 95% or more). The thing I most clearly recall was that the cyclic took about as much force as a pencil scribbling on paper. My instructor insisted that the stick should be held between thumb and the opposed fore and middle fingers (or something like that - it was a while ago).

How can an R44 possibly need hydraulically assisted controls?

[SASless]

How can an R44 possibly need hydraulically assisted controls?

Higher loading on the flight controls.

[John R81]

JimJim

I own & fly both R44 (Clipper II) and EC120. Hydraulics out, the EC120 is easier to fly than the R44, though both are certainly flyable / controllable. There is marginal difference in the control force required to move the blades between the two machines - despite the higher AUW of the 120; the R44 has a 2-blade teetering head - but the 120 does not suffer cross-feed from the closed hydraulics and that is what makes the R44 'heavy' to control without hydraulics.

In the Clipper 2 the cross-feed causes lever down & cyclic forward to be linked (and v.v.) which means that the pilot has to overcome that when trying to make fine control movements. It makes the un-practiced pilot look rather "jerky" in controlling the ship. Hydraulics on I fly the R44 with two fingers and a thumb with my hand resting on my thigh but hydraulics-off I need a firm, full hand grip due to the cross-feed.

Without hydraulics I find it easier to make a running landing with the R44 than to hover her, though I know others who are very happy to hover sans-hydraulics. In the EC120 with hydraulics off I have always come to the hover before landing.

I haven't flown the R22 so I can't compare

John

[AnFI]

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