Difference between bond an bristows IR

[HFM]

My question is what would you do and what is a better way to spend your money, for a full JAA IR rating course.

Bond has the multi engine ec135 course which cost a lot of money. You will do a lot of training on a full motion sim which can safe time in comparison to a real helicopter. (is it easy to load different wind conditions etc, and you can practice more on the things you find hard)

And bristows has the single engine bell course which is slightly cheaper, here you fly more in a real helicopter instead of a sim.

Is it just personal which one you choose or has one a big advantage over the other?

If you now for example go to CHC and two exactly the same persons apply for a job and one had a bond IR paper and the other one a bristows.

Do you think it would matter, or not? (I know bristow will get a multi engine in the future as well)

Hopefully someone can give me usefull information about it

[Decks]

Dont worry either way. The rating is the important thing.
The Bristow 206 system is well proven.... If its cheaper then thats the way I'd be going...

[Bolk]

The twin rating and experience is going to be a bonus. Don't find yourself in the position of being second in line for a job, or having to go out and convert to a twin, for the sake of a short term financial saving.

I did the Bond course and found it to be excellent. The support from the training team is first class and they put you in a great position to pass the the IRT. The sim gives you chance to learn the procedures thoroughly before venturing onto the aircraft and the 10 hours actual flying is enough to convert those skills into the air.

It worked for me but Bristows do also have a great reputation (and will be doing their IR training on twins in the near future). I'd go and see both and have a chat. Get a feel for the place and what would suit you. I would definitely go for the twin option but if that is available at either Bond or Bristow, go for the one you feel most comfortable with.

[helimutt]

Vital Actions, even onshore, a single engined IR is of no use to you. Not in the UK anyway. It needs to be a twin.:ok:

Do it all in a multi eng a/c or sim. Why pay for SE IR then have to upgrade? Cost is major factor and personal preference.
Remember if you only end up with a SEIR(H), it has no use in the private or commercial world in the UK.

[Max Contingency]

I think that to answer this question, you need to first ask yourself 'why do I want an IR?'. If the answer is to take yourself as cheaply as possible to the point at which you might get called to interview by an offshore operator, then the single engine Bristows option might something to consider. It gets your face known (to at least Bristows) and if and when you go offshore, your company will convert your IR to a multi engine as a part of the type rating course that you do on your assigned aircraft type.

Going straight to a multi engine IR, while more expensive, does however offer you a useful qualification if you dont want to go offshore or if you are not sucessful in your application. More and more onshore operators (police, air ambulance, corporate) and being persuaded of the safety advantages of using instrument rated pilots and an EC155, AS355 IR can be a valuable thing to have in your back pocket.

Like most things, your IR comes down to how risk adverse you are and how much the 'insurance' against not getting an offshore job is worth to you. Helimutt is spot on in saying that a SEIR in the UK is like a 'chocolate fireguard'. It is an IR in all respects other than you cannot use it!!

Can I also suggest that you look closely at the quality of the training provider (including their pass rates) as even 2 hours of remedial training and an IRT resit in the UK will set you back £4K plus.

Good luck in whatever route you choose

[Bolk]

Don't take it for granted that all offshore companies will be happy to take you with an SEIR and then convert you. Some will want the twin before offering you the job. Obviously there are opportunities to do this (such as Bristows) but you are limiting yourself. Weigh this carefully against any cost saving before making a choice.

[youngskywalker]

Forgive my intrusion onto the rotorheads forum but as a fixed wing driver I'm curious what difficulties a multi engine heli has over a single engine one? Obviously in a multi fixed wing we have handling difficulites due to assymetric thrust, windmilling propellors etc and performance issues.

Not a critisism, I'm just genuinley curious.

[helimutt]

youngskywalker, in a nutshell, more hands full!! LOL

Seriously degraded performance is the one I think of straight away but I guess with fixed wng you'd be worried about similar things. You need to keep airspeed, we need to keep the spinning things above us, spinning above us!

[youngskywalker]

Thanks for that, something I've always wondered about! I guess the main problem with the multi engine Helicopter IR compared to the fixed wing equivelant is that you dont really have the option of using a slightly cheaper twin piston! It must be like doing an IR on a King Air, christ that would be expensive!

[helimutt]

not sure of the cost of a king air but a twin squirrel is usually about the cheapest option at about £1000/hr, give or take. 109's, Ec135 etc prob more.

[Lightning_Boy]

I'd go for the Bond option, SP MEIR with a type rating on the 135 and experience of glass cockpit. If your applying to CHC, chances are you'll be flying either an L2 or a 225 so that would also be in your favour.
From what I've been told, the Bristow IR gives you a SEIR (choclate fire guard!!) and no type rating?
Again, depends what your goal is, as a step up to a ME IR then I guess it's OK, but personally, I'd go for the real thing.

[M_Pilot]

does anybody know what the pre requirements are for a multi type engine IR+ type rating. Is there a limit on how many PIC hours you need?

[Bolk]

M Pilot,

Have a look at http://www.bondtrainingservices.com/

....should answer most questions. Worth giving them a bell though.

[Troglodita]

(I know Bristow will get a multi engine in the future as well) :D

Well they have had value for money out of the old single engine girl! Anyone know what they are considering?

Hal Bohne & I were the first two Bristow Bods to complete a single engine UK CAA IR on AV Dubble India back on 27th July 1981 with Don Sissons as Examiner.
Charles was marrying Princess Di the same day!

All you had to do afterwards was a simple twin engine upgrade - involving an engine emergency followed by single engine go around and subsequent approach - once again with a CAA Examiner in attendance. In my case this took twice as long as the initial SE test due to being screwed around by Aberdeen ATC! - memories of Charles Waldron peering over my shoulder for just short of 2 hours - everything was assessable even if it was not required for the test!

Those halcyon days!