Run on landing distances

[niknak]

Can anyone give me an idea, (or information source), for the run on landing distances in the event of brake/hydraulic failure, for;

AS32 (Puma/Tiger).
SK76.
Augusta 139.
EC55.

It's part of a project I'm working on to enable to obtain greater utilisation of the runway for helicopter operations, (ie allowing 2 helicopters to use the same runway at the same time etc).

Many thanks.

[Role1a]

Dont mean to be rude but its Zero for a helicopter.

R1a:E

[Gordy]

"Don't mean to be rude but its Zero for a helicopter."

I would not want to plan for a zero run on with hydraulic failure.. I don't have numbers for the listed aircraft, but here is another question...

What is the probability of two helicopters having brake/hydraulic failure at the same time? And secondly, why would you want to land them at the same time?

[Role1a]

"I would not want to plan for a zero run on with hydraulic failure"

You may not have a choice (Rig or Deck).

Always plan for the worse.

R1a

[niknak]

Gordy,

the idea is that we can allow one to land whilst another is taking off or allow one to manouvre at one end of the runway whilst another lands on the other end.
The runway is just under 2000m long, but we have to satisfy the UK CAA that we have sufficient safeguards in place to allow for brake or hydraulic failure upon landing.

The procedure exists at other UK airports but we have to have the facts and figures before we can implement our own.

cheers.
NN.

[SASless]

Well now would it make any difference if one were to land "across" the runway instead of "along" the runway?

2000 meters long runway....and you question whether two helicopters could use the one runway?

Why on earth would the CAA have a problem with that?

If one of the aircraft were to have a brake failure, could not hover, and had to roll out after landing.....do you reckon you would have to include a comm failure to trigger a conflict?

Surely in the UK the landing aircraft would have been screaming "PAN", "May Day" or notify all on the frequency of the problem and the other aircraft would clear the runway for the "emergency" landing.

Or am I missing something here?

[TheVelvetGlove]

It sounds like you are confusing a hydraulic brake failure with a hydraulic control systems failure- which is it? They have nothing in common.

It is not SOP to land a wheeled helicopter at speed- they ground taxi on the wheels, but they land from a hover-very little rolling (less than 1 meter?) after they set down.

Are you talking about how far a wheeled helicopter will roll without hydraulic brakes after a OEI landing?

I do not know of any wheeled helicopters (at least mediums, anyway) that are flyable after a dual hydraulic control systems failure.

Therefore, I would have to say that the running landing distance could simply be re-defined as the diameter of the smoking hole.:D

[albatross]

I would think that what you are looking for is the Catagory "A" Rejected and continued Take off distances.

This would allow the a/c to accelarate to its Decision point :say 55 kts lose and engine,land and stop. - say 2700 feet for a large helicopter at 30 C and max Mass with 0 headwind.

If a helicopter was to decare an emergency in flight such as a tail rotor or Hydraulic problem ATC would "clear the runway" so as to give the entire runway available to the "emergency".

This information should be in the flight manual of the A/C - also company procedures may also apply so check the appropriate Operations manual.

Good question and interesting concept.

[[email protected]]

NikNak - this seems like a very Fixed Wing sort of procedure where you can have one landing with another taking off providing there is enough runway between the two - are you sure the CAA apply the same rules to helicopter ops? Are all your helicopter movements running TO and landings? Rather seems to defeat the object of having a helicopter in the first place.