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jollyrog
2nd Jun 2008, 17:46
I got quite an interesting magazine from the CAA which I enjoyed reading and recognise is full of good advice.

I won't be showing it to any of my flying guests though. They'll have nightmares.

Legalapproach
2nd Jun 2008, 19:41
Agree, arrived in the post today and rather enjoyed it - especially the John Farley article

TheGorrilla
2nd Jun 2008, 21:16
I've come to the conclusion that I feel I may have suspected all along about the CAA. They're a bunch of scaremongering, kill joy, poorly informed nimbies. This magazine though glossy and well written sums up thier attitude to GA rather well. We're a pain in the backside for them. Lets face it, they would rather over regulate us and outprice us out of existance than do anything to help our cause (mode s etc..).

I'm not talking about the individuals that work for the CAA. I would hand on heart say I haven't met a nasty one amongst them. However as a body they seem to have an agenda to scare and stop as much as possible when it comes to GA, while bending over backwards at every whim, request and requirement of the Big Airlines in this country. Makes me sick when I see how easily the airlines in this country get rules changed to suit thier operation.

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd Jun 2008, 21:40
Most interesting was the claim that birds are VFR flyers - get one into a cloud and it suffers the same stall/spin accidents as VFR pilots. (Sounds a bit odd though ... no reference to anything we could read for more details.)

TheGorrilla
3rd Jun 2008, 01:35
BS in gloss is still BS mate.

niknak
3rd Jun 2008, 11:57
Gorrilla/XX,

the whole point of these type of publications is to inform and hopefully prevent you getting yourself into a similar situation, whether you bother to take note is up to you. Perhaps you are both members of that selct organisation - The "It will never happen to me" club.

If Mr Gorrilla isn't talking about "the people who work for the CAA", who is he talking about?
"The people who work for the CAA" are the people who write and produce precisely these publications.

oli,_the_original
3rd Jun 2008, 13:22
Can someone explain the accident stats to me please? It's just from the brief skim-reading of that article, there seem to be more fatal accidents in the UK GA than fatalities:confused:

Oli

tdbristol
3rd Jun 2008, 15:14
I disagree with most of the later posts.
I did not think it 'glossy BS'; I thought it was well considered and as a relatively low-hours PPL (150) I found it useful and informative, reminding me of a few things, and I was impressed and pleased that they
- bothered to spend the money on it
- clearly took it seriously enough
- was in a form that encouraged being read
And IMO it shows some interest and concern by the CAA in us GA pilots.

moggiee
3rd Jun 2008, 15:23
However as a body they seem to have an agenda to scare and stop as much as possible when it comes to GA,
Given the shocking accident stats in GA, is it any wonder that they have to?

The same old accidents come up again and again because the GA community AS A WHOLE does not appear to learn the lessons of past accidents/incidents. Just look at the number of CFIT accidents each year and you'll see what I mean.

IO540
3rd Jun 2008, 16:30
Is this mag GASIL or GASCO?

I used to get them sent to me when I was on G-reg.

They used to go to everybody on the CAA aircraft database.

Irv
3rd Jun 2008, 16:41
It's completely new - sent out annually to all pilots on the CAA database (licence/medical I think) -sent out 'staggered' over a few days perhaps? - but requires pilots to have registered changes of address.

flybymike
3rd Jun 2008, 17:12
IO540. I believe the actual title is "Clued Up"

'Chuffer' Dandridge
3rd Jun 2008, 17:12
I always thought GASIL (and to some extent, the CAA Safety Evenings) were a bit like being talked down to by a Strict Headmaster:

"We notice, we understand bla bla bla........"

But as someone has already said, its the small percentage (say 5%) who **** it all up for the 95% of us who can be bothered and are professional enough to remain outside CAS, not infringe the Reds, not to fly into a mountain, fly into bad weather and crash etc etc. If the 5% of pilots who fly around and can't act professionally, are we at all surprised at the reaction of the regulatory authorities, especially when those 5% are in or near CAS and a potential 'threat' to commercial air transport?

I must admit, in my 25 years of flying GA aircraft, it's now bothering me the amount of stupidity involving GA types, microlights and helicopters i see around the country. Maybe I'm just getting old and more like Victor Meldrew?:=

DeeCee
3rd Jun 2008, 17:23
I thought that there was some good practical advice in it, particularly the bit about Airspace busts. The overall message was 'plan, be careful and concentrate'. I am struggling to find an anti GA agenda frankly. Why would they produce this if they had a bias?

Some of the incidents that have been discussed on Prune are a result of poor decision making. Before you all shout 'there for the grace of God go all of us' I would say that this publication was trying to highlight the importance of good decision making and the possible results and repercussions in the event we do not.

Maybe not rocket science, but neither are Safety Evenings. Hammering home the obvious tends to make it stick.

Contacttower
3rd Jun 2008, 17:43
I am struggling to find an anti GA agenda frankly. Why would they produce this if they had a bias?

I am too; the magazine was very good and I hardly think the likes of Irv Lee and John Farley would take part in something intended to discourage GA.

TheGorrilla
3rd Jun 2008, 17:49
I wonder who has the greatest say in what goes into these articles. Is it the relatively small pilot community in the CAA or is this mag effectively written by statisticians? As Oli points out you can bend stats in many directions to reinforce your viewpoint. I personally think the CAA have an agenda. If they can play the "dangerous/unsafe card" in order to over regulate GA and get rid of this so called burden that's what they'll do.

IO540
3rd Jun 2008, 19:57
I am sure the CAA is not anti GA, and this is true both individually and as an organisation.

Their image problem is probably mainly in their historical recruitment policy. A lot of ex RAF and ex airline types. These organisations have always had narrow (must get a 'company man' who 'fits the mould') recruitment policies and while the individuals are invariably very clever and experienced people, once placed in senior management / policymaking positions they they tend to come across as elitist and patronising.

The CAA itself has obviously been running a 'must fit the mould' policy on recruitment and promotion, ensuring that nobody too revolutionary manages to rise up through the ranks.

So much of the GA material that I have seen come out of the CAA since I started flying in 2000 has been at best patronising and at worst a pile of junk (such as the whole way they dealt with the issue of GPS, scaring so many pilots into really believing it is illegal etc etc etc). I think this is now finally changing, but years too late and the damage has been done.

What I don't know is whether the more modern attitude in the CAA is the result of personnel changes due to retirement, or due to EASA threatening to take over most of their work and forcing a revamp of their traditional revenue streams. At the corporate level they will want to protect their income after all.

1d2d3d4d
3rd Jun 2008, 21:07
Received mine today and was quietly impressed. The mag is targeted at GA pilots who (with the exeption of IO540) fly once or twice a month. manly on local bimbles. Get very little practice at real navigation and if they go anywhere other than their local area have a tendency to get lost. This probably includes me.:} Getting lost anywhere near CAS means busts, me again.:*

So I thought it a very welcome surprise.

Glad I am not in the same club as the low hour guys flying into a lowering cloud base though. Losing it in IMC with a stall, rapid descent (probably exceeding VNE) high engine revs (probably red lining the engine) and a bad landing. Didn't mention it at the club (incase of overstressed airframe, damaged engine or even bent undercarriage) to avoid embarresment.:confused:

BroomstickPilot
4th Jun 2008, 06:17
I haven't had time to read much of mine yet, but from a skim through the pages I think it looks to be rather good.

Broomstick.

Shunter
4th Jun 2008, 06:39
I thought it was quite a good read.

As for the "I'd be fine in IMC" club, I suggest you try it sometime (with an instructor). Chances are you'll be all over the place in seconds. Probably the reason why most people who've done an IMC rating feel it should be compulsary.

BackPacker
4th Jun 2008, 06:45
Anyone knows if the CAA intends to send it out to foreign pilots who are on the CAA register? I'd love to get a copy even if I have to pay p&p for it.

IanSeager
4th Jun 2008, 07:08
Anyone knows if the CAA intends to send it out to foreign pilots who are on the CAA register? I'd love to get a copy even if I have to pay p&p for it.

If you are on the CAA/PLD database you should get a copy, even if you live overseas.

Ian

IO540
4th Jun 2008, 09:32
What database would this be? The only obvious one is the Eurocontrol route charging one but only > 2000kg pilots will be on that one. It would suprise me if the CAA had really collated all those plane spotter sites (esp. that one listing FRAs allegedly based in the UK) and worked out if the pilots ever held a CAA license...

My two CAA sponsored mags (Gasil & Gasco) stopped arriving the instant I went N-reg but I know the CAA have all my records very well computerised.

Canuck Spin
4th Jun 2008, 09:34
I know there has been a mixed response to this publication but I have to say I am glad I got it and actually sat down to read EVERY article which all had at least something interesting to say to everyone (I don't even do that in normal aviation magazines these days!).

I'm sure many have felt a little let down by the CAA on occasion but the fact they have put together such a publication (including time and cost), in my opinion at least, shows some recognition of the fact they understand GA pilots are, in the main, as professional in their approach to aviation as our commercial counterparts. Send in feedback on the first issue and hopefully it can be built upon in the future.

Maybe I'm overly receptive to "free" things though...:8

DBisDogOne
5th Jun 2008, 11:29
I'm confused, my copy went to my workplace! Don't recall giving them that info. My home address is on my licence.

Canuck Spin
5th Jun 2008, 11:48
So far as I understand it the copies are based on holding a class 1 or 2 medical issued by the CAA...any chance you had your work address on medically related forms?

S-Works
5th Jun 2008, 12:21
Finally got around to reading it. A laudable effort and nicely presented Mr Seager. But it is still the same old faces preaching the same old staff that is given air time elsewhere. A lot of doom and gloom and useless stats.

It would have been nice to see some of the more positive aspects of GA and work that is being done to improve things. Not endless preaching about carb ice, infringements and stupid mistakes.

It has potential and I await with interest to see where it goes.

DBisDogOne
5th Jun 2008, 12:24
Maybe, but can't remember doing it!!!

Mariner9
5th Jun 2008, 13:05
Mine only came yesterday, but I do live in the far reaches of the Post Office Empire (Wales :ok:).

Will happily post it on once I've read it G-Emma, but BackPacker did ask first. Still want one BP? If so, PM your address, and we'll come to some arrangement over postage.

DeeCee
5th Jun 2008, 13:55
I can only admire the way that some people find negative aspects about a pro active attempt to influence low time pilots not to make elementary mistakes. Because that is what this represents - a pro active set of information i.e. sent out without any effort from the recipients, designed to instill good habits. On re-reading it I think it is a well put together magazine with lots of handy reference points.

Iseems that there is a general demand for more copies. Here's some info;

It is called 'Clued Up' and is produced by Seager Publishing. They state; 'Clued Up is distributed automatically once per year to all UK licensed flight crew.' Maybe those who need a copy should call Seager on 01225 481440. It continues 'To ensure that you receive Clued Up you must notify any change of address to the CAA's Licensing Department.'

MeiklePap
5th Jun 2008, 15:14
I thought it was great,glad to get as much info as possible not only to keep me right but also to see what others are doing wrong and consider how that may effect me.
As with any forum you will get mixed rantings from the self proclaimed experts who like to stir things up a bit and Im sure they would be whinging on if nothing were published if they were not surfing the threads to show their superiority elsewhere.

I feel that for everyone from student to professional instructor this document is a benefit and I look forward to the next one.:D

markflyer6580
5th Jun 2008, 15:42
I thought it was quite good,especially as I am not current at the moment so its reminded me of a few things come renewal time!!!
I think the CAA do try a bit hard to make things difficult for GA,especially compared to overseas agencies,but as mentioned earlier I have also had dealings with a few of the staff and they have all been nice,knowledgeable chaps.

The Member
5th Jun 2008, 16:09
I have had experience with the CAA in the Commercial field and found them less than helpful on some occasions however I found this publication most interesting and instructive and as a relative low hour NPPL holder it has reminded me of one or two points that had already slipped to the back of the old brain box. So I am with the CAA on this. Well done credit were credit is due.
If we in GA act as professionally as those in commercial aviation there will be no reason for the CAA to do anything detrimental to our enjoyment of flying in GA.:ok:

stocker
5th Jun 2008, 16:34
Like most of you I also found it a good read. I have forgotten so much about flying that its a good reminder to keep me on my toes especially when you start flying your own A/C and are not moving around the same circles at clubs or groups etc.

Anything thats going to improve my knowledge is greatly appreciated and I dont want to become of the next issues statistics......

niknak
5th Jun 2008, 17:39
Canuck Spin is correct, the majority of CAA publications, whether for ATCOs or pilots are linked to the CAA medical register.
If you hold a CAA medical then you'll get them, if you don't you won't, although occassionally the computer forgets and keeps you on the database.

That could explain why owners of N reg aircraft who now hold FAA medicals no longer recieve such information.

Back to the original topic, all these publications are well intentioned and meant to give you a gentle nudge in the right direction, or in the case of the very few, a kick up the arse.

BackPacker
5th Jun 2008, 18:12
Mariner, thanks for the offer. I haven't received mine yet. But this may also be caused by me having a Dutch medical to go with my UK PPL.

But since I live outside the reach of the Post Office, let's give it a few more days.

Nibbler
5th Jun 2008, 21:34
As I don't know it all, have yet to see it all, can't remember every last detail of everything I've ever been told and am not up to date with every new development in the aviation world online or otherwise - I'd say it was an informative read made all the better by being entirely free!

Go CAA! :ok: