PZL Swidnik SW 4

[pedje]

Hi All,

Anybody know anything about the SW 4.

My company currently flies R44, and i am looking for an upgrade to turbine.

and since the R66 is still uncertain wether or when it comes.

EC 120 is a possibility or 206 but what about the Polish helicopter ?

PZL was bought by Sikorsky in 2006.

Well i am looking forward to your opinions..

Greetz

[Freewheel]

The SW-4 might get lost in a conflict between it and the Schweizer 434, whenever that comes out, but for my $0.02,

It appears to be the only option in the wind for a "utility" 5 seater from 2010. The R66 will be a flashy, lightweight disposable helicopter, like a Kia, the EC120 is a flashy heavyweight, like a BMW 1 series and the Enstrom a bit more rough, robust and payload limited like a Jeep Wrangler.

The SW-4 appears to be more the Hilux, but looks have been deceiving in the past.... Uses a C-20R though, 110 odd litres an hour and 20% more expensive to overhaul than a C20B/J, so I believe.


Personally I quite like it, and whilst I'm fully aware PZL are busy building 200 or so for the Polish military/police, I'd be happier if there were civvy ones appearing.........

[Lt.Fubar]

First - Sikorsky bought PZL Mielec, not PZL Swidnik. "PZL" here means "Polskie Zaklady Lotnicze" - Polish Aeronautics Facility... or something like it ;) it's very important what comes after it, as there are few PZLs around here.

The SW-4 is being manufactured for the Polish Military as a trainer, there will be 24 of those, no other orders yet... although one was already crashed during autorotation practice.

I'll be honest, as I'm not fond of any flying thing that comes from my country, except of gliders, so the story of SW-4 for me is no different. It looks like "what if Bell produced copy of Ecureuil... in 1970s". The EC120 is a bit more expensive, but I would bet my money on it where it comes to economics, reliability and crash worthiness... on SW-4, I won't.

[EESDL]

Suggest you contact chap working in Oxford Airport operations.....seems to know an awful lot about the helicopter and I'd imagine would be happy to arrange factory tour/dealership etc.
Do not know his name but can't imagine there being too many in Ops

[206 jock]

This thread was started me two years ago

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215373&highlight=swidnik

Longbox was looking to bring over some units then, for sales into the European market, at a sensible price. But it went cold and I guess never happened.

If you do a search on this forum, you'll find similar stories back to 2001!

I ended up buying a late JetRanger - I'd recommend one of those or an EC120if you want something that is going to appear in the next two years....

[Lt.Fubar]

Well the helicopter was in development for nearly two decades, and I don't know about any changes since the 2001, so all the issues Shawn Coyle was writing about should still be there. Plus, there will be no helicopters produced for civilian market until there will be orders...there will be no orders until there will be helicopters produced for civilian market - Catch 22 :}

The way I see it - it will be produced for Polish military, first the training, than light utility to put in place of those old Mi-2s, and than the license and production line will be sold to China or India. This will not surprise me at all, as similar thing is currently happening with W-3s - the whole engines production line was disassembled and stored, or sold, as rumor say. Heliseco is buying all exported Sokols, and soon will be the only civy operator... not really a shocker, as it belongs to PZL Swidnik, and they still have enough parts to run them. To bad the military still have to use them, hope Sikorsky will do some sweat deal to replace them with Blackhaws - dirt cheap or something ;)

[JTobias]

I have a promotional video in English of the PZL flying and a powerPoint presentation. By all accounts it looks like a fantastic machine (sort of like a mini single squirrel) The problem is there seems to be no defibitive timescale for production.

If you want the video let me know.

Joel

[Shawn Coyle]

At the risk of reiterating points I may have raised before:
The helicopter has some serious issues for use as a training helicopter (unless this has been changed).
The throttle is in the overhead - and I don't know too many instructors who will like that for autorotations.
The fuel tank has no lateral baffles - if you roll into a turn, the nose will slice out of the turn about 5 degrees or so, a few seconds later as the fuel runs to the low side of the turn.
I don't believe PZL Swidniik completed certification to the full requirements of Part 27 (i.e. HV at 7,000' and max weight) among other things.
I believe the autorotation accident referred to earlier happened during the limited certification that was completed, and was due primarily to doing autorotations to the grass surfaces outside the factory (a pet peeve of mine if you haven't seen the articles in Vertical).
There was a longer list of things I debriefed the PZL Swidnik folks (and a potential UK investor on), but I've had too many sleeps since then.
Without a full Part 27 equivalent certification, this machine is not going anywhere outside the Polish military.

[Capt JB]

:) Hi,

I have never flown the SW-4. But this has to be said
- it is a designed after the AS350, but it is not a copy of it.
- the three blades have all the advantages but eat space in hangar
- the engine is an Allison, good engine as long as you don't want to work with, I mean, as long as your helicopter is for personal use. Turbomeca engines are far better for job purpose.
There are no comparison - except number of seats, range, payload between all helicopters cited in the reply (R66, EC120, Bell 206)
In the quatuor (including the SW-4 to the three above mentioned), I would select the EC 120.
Of course, the initial investment, is higher but it pays on long term, well known aircraft, 5 real seats (cabin could stand six) big luggage compartment, anti-crash seats (not an option) very friendly to pilot and excellent visibility for pax. Better performances (hot and high) than all others, and versatile.
Bell 206, according to Bell the order book is full until 2010 when they will stop production. Why to buy an aircraft near to its end, Bell says they will keep on support for existing customers.. For how long..??
R66 not certificated yet, but will be a good product, but missing a lot of versatility - Don't we need versatility in company ?
Schweizer 434 not certificated yet, but should be a good and dependable product like the H300C
Enstrom 480, was a design made for military training competition 10 years ago.. then turned to civil version , certainly good product (I've not experience on it) but missing versatility too.
SW-4 is a new design, with no background experience, only 24 aircraft manufactured, I would let it mature a little more.
In the hope this help:ok:

with regards:)

[Chris P Bacon]

There was an SW4 imported into South Korea recently. Do not know who is operating it but have been in contact with one of the engineers looking after it maintenance.

[heli1]

There is a piece in this week's HeliData News about sales ...I gather there are two now in Korea plus more sold elsewhere.

[longbox]

Hi Guys,

The SW4 is a fantastic helicopter, it has undergone major changes in recent years and some of the posts are a little out of date, I am indeed going to be importing these helicopters to the UK, they now have full EASA certification and I am currently working with the CAA and the factory to put the first one onto the register, incidentially, I am ordering 3 off the production line to demonstate my confidence in this helicopter. If any one would like to arrange a chat about them please feel free.

[JTobias]

I would be interested in a chat about this. Please get in touch when you are ready.

Joel

[longbox]

Hi Joel

do you have a private email

[krypton_john]

Hi Longbox, how will these be priced, say, in comparison to the out-going 206BIII ?

[160thfan]

Anything new to promote Longbox?
Curious in America...

[longbox]

Hi all, I thought I would provide an update for the SW4 situation. Over the last few months the aircraft has been continually improved with the latest mod being new main tranmission mounts, providing an even better ride. I have ordered 3 off the line and my first will arrive in the UK late July. It will be painted and trimmed in the UK and displayed at heli Tech. The production is now being ramped up with a second production line just being started to double the output of machines. My first one will be on my AOC and we will use it for public transport and demonstration flights.
We will be selling the SW4 Hawk, its UK name, from our purpose built facility at Manston, it is a glass fronted showroom that will be the first sales outlet of its kind anywhere in Europe.
We are the dealer for the UK, Ireland, France and the balerics, if anyone requires further info please feel free to email me.:ok:

[9Aplus]

@longbox
Have sent one e-mail to you on both profiles.... no answer so farr please check email box.
In mean time Mr. Stachyra, head of PZL Swidnik Marketing department confirmed to us above story :ok:

[Jarvy]

I don't know anything about the SW4 but I do know longbox and he is a life long fan of the 206. If he rates it over the 206 it must be ok.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I have no connection with his company.
Jarvy

[FH1100 Pilot]

Shawn Coyle:The fuel tank has no lateral baffles - if you roll into a turn, the nose will slice out of the turn about 5 degrees or so, a few seconds later as the fuel runs to the low side of the turn.
How come this doesn't happen to the soda in the open styrofoam cup I keep on the centre console? As long as I make a coordinated turn, the soda stays nice and level and doesn't even slosh around. Just like the trim ball, come to think of it. I'd imagine that I could probably do a complete roll while pouring ice tea into a glass and not spill a drop! (Naaaah, that's just kooky talk.)

[Shawn Coyle]

FH1100:
Nice to see you again!
There probably isn't enough distance to travel to make a difference in the soda. The fuel tank is at least 4 to 5 feet wide and has a lot more mass. Also, if your soda was distributed in a long tube across the cockpit, you'd see the difference.
At least that's what I'm coming up with right now.

And Longbox - I'd love to know what they've changed since I flew it in 2003.

[Freewheel]

Anybody with more recent experience of this type?

[topik22]

Hello,
I know test pilot on SW4, so PM if You want contact info.
Reg
Jacek

[Steve76]

I'd like to chat to the test pilot for the SW4 and probably Shaun again. Could I have a personal email address via PM please?