PDA

View Full Version : Aircraft accidents


jetfueldrinker
23rd May 2008, 19:37
There is a very interesting web site, www.ejection-history.org.uk which lists military air accidents and incidents related to aircraft fitted with ejection seats. There may be a few inaccuracies on the site. For example, according to the site XV800 crashed and was written off twice and I know for a fact that it bit the dust on RAF Wildenrath’s runway on May 16th 1975, the day after a pilot banged out of a Harrier T4 and landed in the grounds of The Pony Hof. Funnily enough, the shock of the seat going released the control restriction, the reason for the instructor pilot ejecting in the first place, and the front seat guy landed the aircraft safely.

When I served in the 1970’s and 1980’s it was accepted that there would be a loss rate of about 20 aircraft a year due to all manner of factors ranging from pilot error to technical malfunction and servicing error. It was bad luck when it happened, but that was the way it was. The thinking was that if the pilot ejected, then he lived to fly another day. And let’s face it, nobody likes funerals. So the lucky ejectee would buy the armourer who fitted the seat a beer, have a tour of the Martin Baker factory and be presented with the ejection seat handle mounted on a plinth. Every serving squadron member knew at least one pilot who had needed to use his seat to save his life.

Looking at the site, the Americans are still loosing planes like there was no tomorrow. Most other nations keep loosing planes at a steady rate, except the British. I am asking myself why this should be. By my reckoning the last time a British pilot ejected was over 12 months ago. Surely with all the conflict, operations and intensive training that the RAF and Fleet Air Arm pilots are expected to partake in, statistically there should be more operational mishaps. Yet, remarkably, there appear to be fewer.

I accept that there are fewer aircraft, fewer serving people and fewer stations than when I served. But the demands seem greater. This must apply world wide and most nations still loose aircraft at an alarming rate except the British.

I’d love to hear any theories as to why this should be. Most people in the time I served thought that the British forces were reasonable. The Falklands War proved that we were the best and it made the world sit up, listen and take notice. No doubt better training has a large part to play, but this does not count for things like bird strikes, technical cock ups and mechanical failure, all of which have, historically been causes of aircraft crashing.

So come on guys, why do you think that there are fewer crashes involving British planes and aircrew? What do you attribute this to? What are we doing so right that the rest of the world has not cottoned onto?

Tiger_mate
23rd May 2008, 20:44
Part of the reason for improved Flight Safety is the quality of simulation available to pretty much all crews nowadays and that attendance is mandated.

Another reason is that Flight Safety, and the need for it has been embraced by all aircrew and honest and open reporting is not met with a finger poking heirarchy.

Human factors, or CRM is taught and respected by most. Arrogance is not tolerated, and everybody has a boss to answer to.

Engineers, and maintenance quality must share the kudos of high quality flight safety, but how they do it with under manning, multi skill tradesmen and poor morale is beyond me.....Well done fellers.

Cockpit Voice Recorders, Flight data recorders, and public media ability (phone camera & DSLR) mean that accountability is paramount, along with the disappearance of 'Crown Immunity' for bad behavour.

I could go on, but I think that it is obvious that no single thing has improved Flight Safety, but a 'System promoted' chain of events all add up to better stats nowadays. Sadly aircraft remain that should have been retired years ago and the lords and masters wonder why specific fleets still have problems.

Warmtoast
23rd May 2008, 21:03
...or could it be that because DASA no longer collates Military Aircraft Accident Statistics, we no longer know what's happening whom and why?

Cessation of Military Aircraft Statistics:

As a result of the National Statistics consultation recently published on this website, these statistics have now ceased. The most recent reports listed are the final military aircraft statistics to be published by DASA.


See here:
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/accidents/accdeaths/annual/intro.html

and here:

http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/consultation/AircraftStatisticsConsultationResponse.pdf

FlightTester
23rd May 2008, 21:05
the Americans are still loosing planes like there was no tomorrow

Could be the relative size of the two fleets. A quick Google gives

US Assets

AV-8 = 100
A-10 = 248

B-1 = 65
B-2 = 19
B-52 = 94

F-15C = 337
F-16C = 1084

F-18C&E = 575

UK Assets

OCA

<100

DCA

<150

I was on the Teddy Roosevelt for a visit back in the 90's - they were amazed that they had more aircraft and personnel on that one carrier than the RAF had in Germany!

That being said they were truly impressed at how much the RAF was capable of achieving with comparitively few assets.

Synthetic
23rd May 2008, 22:04
Part of the reason for improved Flight Safety is the quality of simulation available to pretty much all crews nowadays and that attendance is mandated.


I thank you:)

jetfueldrinker
23rd May 2008, 22:32
When I was on 92 I went to Decimomanu for Red on red. 92 who were flying very aging F4's were up against the Belgians who were flying F16's. I couldn't believe that the F4's, limited to 5g, outflew the F16's which were all less than 5 years old. Now that says something.

sox6
24th May 2008, 11:36
WT - The DARS annual report presenting data and statistics on aviation safety in 2007 is at:
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/6DBEB3BF-FE78-4989-A649-7714F03B74CC/0/DARSAR07web.pdf

But the last DASC Journal is worth reading too:
http://mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/849892B2-D6D2-4DFD-B5BD-9A4F288A9B18/0/DASCJournal2008.pdf
Especially the HF & Bristow Target Zero articles.

Warmtoast
26th May 2008, 10:09
sox 6

Thanks for the links.