Are we wasting our time and money

[doctordoom]

Just starting this Thread to see if anybody else think's that the number of new pilot's far out weigh's the number of job's out there. I for one alway's thaught there was plenty of jobs at the end of the rainbow, but I am now starting to have second thaught's. The number of students over the pst year or two seem to have doubled or in some cases trippled. I just cant see there being job's for everybody. I mite be just over reacting because I am nearing the end of my training, but this scary thaught keep's me awake at night.:confused:

[jb2_86_uk]

doctordoom... more like doctorgloom. Lighten up, maybe its your negative attitude holding you back.

Good luck with the rest of your training. I Hope you can prove yourself wrong! :ok:

JB

[doctordoom]

Thanks guys, I dont want to come across as all doom and gloom. I think its just the nerves are gettin the better of me

[potkettleblack]

I for one alway's thaught there was plenty of jobs at the end of the rainbow, but I am now starting to have second thaught's. T

If you search the CAA website there is a useful document which lists the number of initial licence issues. Of course that is only for UK issued JAA licences and you need to remember that not only Brits compete for jobs in the UK.

It puts it into perspective. If you get a list of the UK operators or whatever your target market is and do a bit of trawling through pprune you will get a feel for how many jobs roughly each operator has on average a year. Add them up and divide the two and you should arrive at a relatively small number of success. Of course as pointed out it all comes down to you and you alone but the statistics are an interesting observation nonetheless.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Did you not know that there are many more pilots train each year than ever get flying jobs?

I thought a little thing like that might have been important to find out.

WWW

[Jet22]

The number of expanding airlines and growing routes easiley out does the number of pilots that are going to be or going through the process of becoming a pilot.

As a pilot you can only do so many flights a month and if you work for a company such as BA who operate 8 frequnices a day to places like JFK BA will be recrtuing all the time (maybe only one or two jobs a month).

FR is a really good example of the schedule and amount of time a pilot it allowed to work!!

[doctordoom]

So there is still a chance of getting the foot in the door :ok:. Thanks jet22

[chrisbl]

But when push comes to shove the jobs will be decided on some none flying things like whether you can spell "thought,triple and pilots".
Apologies if English is not your first language.:bored:

[Leezyjet]

I was only reading the other day ( I forget where now) that the current global requirement for NEW pilots is running at around 5,000 per year but the schools are only able to churn out a max of 3,500 pilots per year currently.

If you are prepared to work anywhere and fly anything, then you shouldn't have a problem getting a job.

Those that cannot get jobs are possibly restricting themselves to the likes of BA/Bmi/Monarch/Flybe etc or to specific countries like the UK.

It's a big wide world out there, and there are jobs if you are prepared to move away from mummy and daddy and your buddies - doesn't have to be forever, just long enough to get decent hours on a type in your log book then come back home.

:ok:

[BerksFlyer]

The number of expanding airlines and growing routes easiley out does the number of pilots that are going to be or going through the process of becoming a pilot.

If you are just talking about the UK, then I doubt that is correct.

It is a fact that many more pilots train than find employment - though as Leezyjet said, they are likely confining themselves to the main carriers and more likely, jets.

You've got to believe that you are better than your competitors. Have some self belief!

[helimutt]

but remember, McDonalds will always be hiring in quieter times and with the shiny new CPL and IR, you'll be streets ahead of the competition there, so it's not all doom and gloom for you fixed wingers.;)

Runs for cover!!!!!

[Anderson8]

Im in the stage where i am seriously thinking about my options. Im thinking of going into either the CTC Easyjet scheme or FTE scheme as they both offer potentials for future employment after i work as an accounting technician for 2 years to earn money for training.

I too am quite scared of the possibility of spendind £100,000 to be job hunting at the local job centre.

Im a very positive person but it is scary knowing all my time and money could be wasted.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I hardly know where to start sometimes.

Every year hundreds of people train for their commercial license and they NEVER find employment as a pilot. They have wasted tens of thousands of pounds in the process. Many never even fully complete the training as they run out of cash or talent.

Many cannot get a job flying a light piston twin as competition is so fierce never mind an airline job.

You can use your JAA pilots license abroad but you would need fluency in the foreign language of the country in question. Even then most employers would rather employ a same national and will find a way to do so. Jobs in other parts of the world will often require a FAA license which you don't have.

You will have problems getting a job. Big ones. Its just like acting and other highly aspirational careers where lots of people with lots of talent, money and connections are all chasing limited opportunities. It is very easy to run out of any of these, never be in the right place at the right time or emerge from training during one of the aviation busts that happen time after time (now).

I have trained many young people for their commercial pilots licenses who NEVER made it.

It happens a lot and it always has.

If you don't know this then you are simply ignorant of the profession for which you seek training.

WWW

[Black Jake]

Is it best to go integrated or modular?

















Sorry WWW. Couldn't resist!

[Diaz]

Now my problem- I know all this and still it's all I want to do....

[A Pandy]

Doctordoom
At the end of the day the onus is on you to understand what you are getting into and to assess your level of comfort with the level of risk you are about to take.
As Wee Weasley Welshman ( Go Bluebirds ! ) rightly said there will always be many people who start training in the mistaken belief that obtaining the license is the be all and end all of the process. In reality this is where often the hard work and heartache begin.
That is not to say it cannot be done. I didn't start my training until I was 30 and at the time there were hardly any jobs to be had, so I realised that my chances were fairly slim and accordingly I had a back up plan.
Eventually with some hard work and a little bit of luck everything worked out but not before having to endure some very lean times.
So don't give up just yet.
Just go in with your eyes open and be prepared for a lot of hard work and some disappointments.
Good Luck.:ok:

[African Drunk]

The Flight training schools are generally the source for these HUGE numbers of pilots required. There is a shortage of experienced pilots particually Captains. There has not since the early 80's been a shortage of low houred pilot's. Sorry but this is the reality.

However all my friends who I started flying with have good jobs, some took longer than others, some spent alot more than others but all got there.

[doctordoom]

Thanks A Pandy and African Drunk some fine words of encouragement. I know how you feel Diaz, good on you. I think even at the end of the day if it takes years to get hired I wont regret a thing, I have gone tru some very hard times to get this far but most of all its the good times that will stick in my mind and If I am left working behind the counter of Micky D's atleast I will have giving it my all and have my memories of all the good times I had :ok:

[L'aviateur]

Well it depends what your aim is, for instance if your purely looking at the training as a means to an end, it could very well be a waste. However, if you enjoy flying, and enjoy the training because it means your flying, then thats not really a waste.

[AlphaMale]

However, if you enjoy flying, and enjoy the training because it means your flying, then thats not really a waste.

Ditto that.

The cost of the PPL can't really be classed as a cost toward the Jet job. I for one will be doing the PPL even if I don't intend to work in the industry. Hour Building ... well again flying from Cardiff to the Highlands or Ireland for a day trip can't really class as a cost of getting to the RHS either.

ATPL GS + CPL + ME-IR + MCC are the costs you'd never pay if you wanted to 'fly for fun' only. Unless of course you're rich and want an IR to stop yourself from getting grounded on your days off work.

I for one will see the CPL & FI as a chance to get paid for doing a hobby and something I am passionate about. Leaving only the ME-IR / ATPL GS and MCC as the £15k-£20k investement I'll never get back should I not be lucky enough to get a Job with an Airline Op / Bizjet Op etc

Good luck on the job front.

[Mikehotel152]

Boy oh boy, here we go again! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I know the aviation world is a bit insular and many people on the Wannabe Forums on PPRUNE are young and therefore have not experienced other industries, but this is not the only industry in which the number of young people training each year is greater than the number of jobs available!

It's standard within most desireable professions in case you didn't know!

IMHO it's a good thing in aviation because the training isn't hard enough to weed out the less able pilots and I don't know about you lot, but there are plenty of pilots I've seen in my FTO who I wouldn't feel safe flying with even with a set of controls in front of me, let alone having them sitting at the sharp end of a passenger jet where they could cause real harm! :eek:

[doctordoom]

I dont expect to get a job handed to me on a plate and am planing on starting my FI rating after my IR. I love flying and I think that is my problem, I would fly for food and would be delighted to get a job as an FI. I think it is mad for anybody to think that they will walk into a jet job straight after finishing training. I just dont want to go back to working on a frezzing cold building site for the rest of my days, I have always wanted to be a pilot and have been bittin by the bug and I dont think any other job would do now.

[Mikehotel152]

That positive attitude may be what drives you to make more effort getting a job than many others. Good luck. :ok:

[corsair]

There is always the uncertainty Docgloom, even now with my foot on the first rungs of the ladder. I worry that it will never progress from that. So I have my parachute, lifejacket and clean underwear ready for the next thing, just in case.

Someone mentioned acting, in many ways it is similar. Real actors just want to act, fame is neither here nor there. They always find some work. They get by. The fame junkies just want to be famous. A lot of them fall by the wayside. So it is with flying. If you want to fly you will find a way. If you only want to be a highly paid airline pilot, with a cool uniform. You may struggle. I've met a few of those in my time. Some of the best flying you will do is in small aeroplanes off rough strips, on your own for peanuts. Some 'pilots' find that terrifying!

[doctordoom]

Corsair I think you hit the nail on the head, I think I would get bored being a jet jock. I never started out with the idea of being a jet jock and I am not in it for the glory or the money, Its all about the love of flying for me I would be happy flying anything. I just hope at the end of the day its not a kite in the back garden :ugh:.

[zapoi67]

The same for me ! I dream about bush-flying above the Savannah !!! :ok:

But then you have to feed your family.... and the dog. :sad::{