AOC Charges

[longbox]

This is really a post for AOC holders, various companies are reporting extreme rises in the cost of the annual fees payable to the CAA, figures around 15 - 20K not uncommon upon re-newal, this is a stark rise, apparatly to cover the short fall from the likes of BA, who now longer want to "support GA", this is another issue, like Mode S etc that we all need to look at to keep our cost controlled or rates will rise, and companies will fail, interested to hear views and what charges have been sent out

[cldrvr]

The rise in AOC charges have been in effect for over a year. The consultation process started in november 2005. Has nothing to do with BA refusing to pay. In the old scheme aircraft under 15t hardly got charged anything, that has now been brought in line with aircraft over 15t.

The expense of doing business in Europe.

The increases are across the board so there is no commercial disadvantage of one operator over another unless of course you fly illegal charters on an N-reg. That's why the CAA is clamping down on N-reg operators, at the request of the G-reg guys to elimate unfair commercial advantages.

I don't like the extra charge but have to live with it. Just pass on the cost to the punter.

[Pigeon-dodger]

I don't like the extra charge but have to live with it. Just pass on the cost to the punter.


Maybe the punter will not like the charge and not pay it? Then maybe the compnay holding the AOC will go out of business?

Its not like they are flying 747's on full routes to HK three times a day. They are running operations with tight margins and not great economies of scale so these costs are going to be proportionatly much larger.

Why the charge?? I can only imagine that in the real world, this will affect flight saftey as AOC holders try and keep fewer aircraft operating at maximum capacity etc...:ugh:

[paco]

I think it means that a lot more people will do illegal public transport. You can get fined an awful lot of times before you come near the new charges. If you even get caught.

Phil

[PEASACAKE]

"Public Transport"........................

I am aware of a few Pilots who have different interpretations of these 2 words, and I am sure they will always have.

Many a Pilot (note I did not say owner) seems to be very busy "breaking even on costs" by giving lifts to so called friends.

Peasacake

[nigelh]

I think you will find that even if you give a friend a lift and "break even" this is still public transport so i dont think many are doing that :rolleyes:
I agree that the n reg guys need getting rid of but i think a combination of insurance and fuel plus the caa will wipe out small operators within a year or two. We are a nation that just love beaurocracy and that is what will inevitably kill us in the end . Flying people safely in good , well maintained machines flown by experienced pilots is very expensive ....then when you add aoc fees , paying chief pilot , ops people ,form filling people ,H & S people and then cannot do the job because the ops say the 6 ft fence must be 200m away from the take off area ....then it really IS expensive :ugh:
Of course they do have the option of making us ALL have an aoc and stop us all flying .........what a country :{

ps see you all at silverstone ( obviously after you have attended a special course etc !!)

[Pigeon-dodger]

Do we need to get rid of the N reg guys or amend our charging to be competitve???

Are N reg guys flying about with a worse saftey record??? Its the only justification for the charges otherwise we should object to giving people jobs to put other people out of business!!

[Mal Content]

The expense of doing business in Europe.

Do you really think that fes in the rest of europe are as high as the uk ?

Estonia looks nice for an AOC given "open skies"

In france you can fly singles across the channel, what level laying field are we paying for.

15 k this year will be 37.5 k in 3 years time, plus the inflation which i'm sure will be higher than CPI.

For this you get a half/full day inspection, and a whole load of grief because one fire extinguisher is 3 days out of date.

is the CAA the only regulatory body that has to make a return above costs to the treasury ?

[Pigeon-dodger]

I here Malta's very nice :ok:

[longbox]

i think the point is covered well, rising fuel, rising AOC charges, with another large rise planned for next year, it will get very tight, we only have to go back a few short years and look how an AOC has changed, no CAM, no quality manager, the cost are already high to hold an AOC, regading the N reg flying, its not about them being competative or a safety issue, its about breaking the law whilst everyone else employs the staff, holds themselves up to be accountable and traceable, or you can just do it from your back garden with no liability or overheads...mmmmm i wonder :hmm:

[timprice]

Just because they are on the N reg doesn't mean they are flying illegally or doing AOC work, i think most people seem to have it in for them, but personally i find most of the brits are ill informed, its the CAA that have got it in for you, most helicopters over the years have been built in the US and generally i think they know what they are talking about, since they designed it, built it, got it approved all but for the CAA sticking there two pence in with often unessary mods that are now disappearing with EASA.

Enjoy your flying and with any luck EASA might improve things.

[CarryOnCopter]

Never sure why we think the CAA are there to to help us, or they care, they can do what they want and charge what they want, who do they answer too??

Will EASA be the answer, doubt it, will it mean to the UK industry that any one from a member country can operate in the UK? in theory we will all just be able to set up in a member state if we comply with EASA.

Of course it's not all level and cheaper labour rates, lower expectations from foriegn pilot's/ engineers and maybe touring so they only live here while on the job because it's a bit expensive living in old blighty are some examples that make me wonder how europe is in the UK's best interests, might all look back on this talking about the good old day's when the CAA used tell us to bend over and take like a man :eek:

Although the CAA charges might put us out of buisness, EASA is much more likely to in the future, don't get me wrong the CAA charges are well over the odds.

N reg machines doing dodgy charter, don't make me laugh I see plenty of G reg machines doing that, right in your face and everyone know's, so N reg machines gong to put us out of buisness, actually the other way round for me as there are a few private owners that I fly around which helps when AOC work is slow.

CAA charges high, the future could be worse under EASA.