Ex Shar SP gets new job in Jonathon Ross's House Band

[Junglie]

Just wanted to pass on my congratulations to a certain ex Senior Pilot of a Sea Harrier Squadron who, on leaving, and realising his hours weren't up to the airlines took a different career path and has joined Jonathon's Ross House Band. You can see him every Friday night on the TV (he is the one on the far right- looks a bit like Iggy Pop):p

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Hasn't the guy on the right been in the band from the outset?

http://www.4poofsandapiano.com/images/4PsJR.jpg

[Junglie]

I think you may be right, in which case he was just masquerading as the Splot.....that would explain a few things!!!;)

[Mick Strigg]

Am I missing something? I see no reference to any military service mentioned in any of the biographies here: http://www.4poofsandapiano.com/meet.shtml

[BOAC]

Well, if it is true, at least he would be at home being kept upright by 'puffers' while doing press-ups..................

[Tourist]

Harsh but fair Junglie

[airborne_artist]

I think all of the real members of four poofs and a piano would have given their right arm to spend a night in a large vessel full of seamen. Not sure how they'd feel about the Joanna being launched by the cat though :E

[BOAC]

AA - check your spelling:)

[extpwron]

I wonder if he ever sucked a fisherman’s friend.

http://www.fishermansfriend.com/

[XV277]

Am I missing something? I see no reference to any military service mentioned in any of the biographies here: http://www.4poofsandapiano.com/meet.shtml

I think you are missing an insider piss-take on someone!

[Dunhovrin]

He must be a Harrier pilot - he's got Number 1 on his shirt.

[BOAC]

Nah! The 2 Harrier guys are at the other end. That one is just a poser:)

[Double Zero]

As the CVS' don't have a catapult, I do hope " launching the Joanna off the cat " isn't some gay analogy / habit !

As for AA's spelling, I think we know what you mean, as in " why is the Camel called the ' ship of the desert ' ?!"

I only met one ( non- Test at the time ) Harrier pilot who was an utter p**ck - ( and I'm not pretending to be such a pilot - the other category maybe )... Generally I reckon you're just jealous of Harrier types !

[BOAC]

I agree, OO, let's keep ladies of the opposite sex and small furry animals out of this thread - unless of course they are queens and gerbils................

As for 'giving their right arm'???????????????

[Black 'n Yellar]

Surely this is his third career. Do not forget the time he spent as an office manager in a paper merchant in Slough!!

[olderbloke]

He can't be a Harrier pilot - he would have told us all by now....

[Double Zero]

Well certain Harrier pilots wouldn't, as they may not wish to make you feel belittled...( all I've done is put cameras on them & occasionally fly alongside ), but anyone who's seen a certain type of take-off will never forget it.

As for ' Ladies of the opposite sex ' - that's rather the type I tend to go for - so have avoided Bangkok ! The place, not the affliction.

Re. " furry animals & Gerbils ", well we've all heard the story about a famous actor, but what I've always wondered is ' Who the hell came up with that idea to start with ?!'

[Tim McLelland]

oh wow - a gag about pretending that someone is gay. That's hilarious (for a five year-old):rolleyes:

[Monty77]

We're laughing at you, Tim, not with you.

I'm ginger, and you cannot begin to understand what I have to go through.

Ginger Pride parade in central London? In my dreams.

Mardi Ginge in New Orleans? Some hope.

You gays are sooo spoilt these days.

[Tim McLelland]

I didn't see anything funny - I thought that kind of humour had died with Sid James sitcoms. Using an aviation forum to run some schoolboy sniggeresque lampoon against someone, on the basis that being gay is somehow hilarious, is just a bit sad, and seriously out of date.

[[email protected]]

Ooooohhhhh....get you ducky:yuk:

[brickhistory]

There's that pesky item of being or having been somehow directly involved with military aviation again before lecturing the audience (edited to add) on what they should or should not post in a mil aircrew forum:

A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

[Tim McLelland]

so there! nah nah!:p

[Junglie]

Oh Timmy Tim Tim, you are a wally. If you knew either the individual concerned or anyone who gets the joke, then you might understand our sense of humour. Why don't you run along and write another dull book about a cold war relic. Cheesepiece.:ugh:

[Tim McLelland]

there's no joke to get, that's the point:rolleyes:

[Jackonicko]

Tim,

I know how long you've been in this business, so I know that you must know that however much you might like the services to embrace political correctness, they really have not done so. Banter remains robust and vigorous, and that while no-one would discriminate against gay folk on the basis of their preferences, ripping the pi$$ out of them is unexceptionable in this environment in a way that it no longer is in wider society. Most gay service people have developed thick skins and a nice line in self deprecation, and they give as good as they get (ooh err) and neither need nor expect well meaning indignation on their behalf.

Almost every group gets insulted and laughed at (gingers, blunties, milk-drinkers, chisellers, navigators, fast jet pilots, Herc drivers, civvies, journos et al, are all targets for banter from someone). Perhaps you should view this thread as confirmation that gay servicemen are accepted - they're getting the same kind of banter as anyone else!

And isn't it rather better for gays and their defenders that most people now regard homosexuals with some degree of tolerant (and even affectionate) amusement for their peculiar practises, rather than with utter revulsion at what many once saw (and some still see) as their vile, filthy and unnatural abomination?

All of the humour on this thread has been pretty gentle, after all.

And journos who write dull books about Vulcans aren't immune from being bantered, either, so you needn't feel left out! ;)

[Old Fella]

Count me among those that still see. Tim and his friends should all be made to eat a couple of bowls of Ford Pills or red hot peppers so that they really understand what certain parts of the anatomy are really for.

[eagle 86]

Tim,
If you don't like it - ignore it - go elsewhere - it is not compulsory to read PPRune.
GAGS
E86

[Growbag]

The amusing thing is, that it wasn't gay banter either, the individual concerned isn't gay, (I understand), this fella in the band just looks like him! The situation of him being in the band is the funny bit......the uproar for un-PC banter is way off the mark, which just makes the whole thing funnier....;)

[jindabyne]

Tim,

In recent times I've had separate operations which have left me with erectile problems and a very crooked smile. You might imagine the banter I endure in my local 'animals' bar, led by one or two ex-uniformed scrotes. Such unkind comments as 'need a stiify tonight?' and 'brought the bib with you?' are now the norm - wouldn't have it any other way! Put up with the banter and find a way of joining in - go on, lighten up and have a larf at yourself for a change.

[orca]

If the SP in question was genuinely gay (not sure such devotion to looking like Iggy Pop would leave any time for it..) and treated the gay community as he treated ours it would be toast overnight!

With appointing acumen such as his he'd have straight chaps in gay billets and vice versa before sunrise.

That being said, the fellow in the house band looks a little like the SP, but also bares a resemblence to a short SHAR/ Jungly re-tread with a higher than average need for hair products and 'preparation-H'.

Can someone explain to me how noticing that a gay person looks like a straight person (or vice versa) is at all insulting to either party or bigotted in anyway?

[Tim McLelland]

Okay, okay, I didn't want to start a major argument over nothing, I just felt it was worth saying that jokes aside, the idea of putting-up a post like this one (even a good-natured one as I assume this was) is just a wee bit too infantile when the basic theme of the joke is merely that the guy in question happens to look like the member of a gay singing group. On the face of it, the joke might seem harmless but this is a site used by lots of people and I'm sure there will be more than a few of these who are gay people who might have joined the forces or at least be thinking about it (Air Cadets etc). How on Earth will people like that perceive comments like this? They might have been forgiven for thinking that this kind of schoolboy sniggering had died-out in the forces but it clearly hasn't and I doubt if it would give them much encouragement to consider joining the ranks. Agreed, this kind of banter is only to be expected, and is perfectly acceptable amongst work mates who know each other and take it as a friendly joke, but on a well-used public forum?

I'm all for good humour but come on, this is 2008; surely childish "ooh he looks like someone who is gay, isn't that funny" jokes are a bit last decade? I'm surprised we haven't had the follow-on gags about carrying a handbag or something equally imaginative! Humour is always a good thing but we ought to be adult enough to have grown-out of this kind of nonsense. Besides, whatever would the MoD's PC brigade think after all their efforts and money-spending? ;)

Incidentally Orca you raise an interesting point there; suggesting that a straight person is gay or vice versa shouldn't be perceived as an insult. The point is, silly jokes like this one are based on the very assumption that by suggesting someone is gay, it is funny. Of course someone's sexual preference is actually of no consequence to anyone and not even of any interest to most, but somehow we're expected to snigger at the idea. That is what's insulting about it, although to be fair I personally don't find it insulting - it would take a whole lot more than that to offend me!

Oh, and Old Fella, I have to say that your comments suggest an hilariously outdated view of what you imagine gay men get up to behind closed doors. Hate to ruin your stereotypical misconceptions but you really ought to be aware that there's absolutely nothing that goes on in a gay man's bedroom that doesn't go on in straight bedrooms too - the only difference is the sex of the persons involved. Think you've been watching too many Carry On films;)

[Old Fella]

Tim, nothing whatsoever misguided about my perceptions. The comment about the only difference being the sex of those involved in "gay" v "straight" is the whole point Tim. I am just pleased that during my more than 20 years of military service "gay's" were not tolerated. That modern society has allowed themselves to be "brain washed" into thinking there is nothing abnormal in homosexual relations does not mean we all have to accept that view. My argument is and always has been "If it is normal, let two men produce a child" and likewise "Let two women produce a child" without any involvement of the opposite sex. The day that happens, I might review my sentiments. If you think being gay blows your hair back, go for it but don't try and convince me that it is "normal".

[Jackonicko]

It doesn't go on in my bedroom, Tim!

My botty's a one-way street, a non return valve.

Putting things up it (or anyone else's, male or female) is not what I call 'perfectly natural'.

And I don't think that believing that gay men engage in sodomy is a "hilariously outdated view of what you imagine gay men get up to behind closed doors."

and any potential gay recruit should be aware that he's entering a less PC environment than he'll be useful. PPRuNe reflects that.

[Dan Gerous]

So if the homophobic banter is so offensive, why are the house band called four POOFS and a piano, and not four BLOKES and a piano?

[BOAC]

Blimey junglie - look what you've gone and done now.:sad:

I for one have sorely missed the banter 'outside' these last decades - and enjoyed this one. I've seen a lot worse:).

Boac - Raf (Rtd), straight, Harrier GR3 poser and slightly musical with GSOH.

[Volmet South]

I'm surprised we haven't had the follow-on gags about carrying a handbag or something equally imaginative!

No Tim, those are cross-dressers............ or Italians.

[Tim McLelland]

Dan, I think you're slightly missing the point? Naturally, a band can call themselves whatever they like, and if they want to present themselves as four "poofs" then that's entirely their choice. Hardly the same thing as trying to get a cheap joke out of suggesting someone is gay who isn't.

Old fellah, you're obviously entitled to think what you like, but you can't ignore reality. Homosexuality is normal by definition, unless you're trying to suggest that being gay is somehow unusual. For heaven's sake, homos have been around as long everybody else, the only difference is that our society (fuelled by the church of course) simply tried to ignore the fact until we reached a point where ignoring reality was just too absurd a position to maintain. Naturally you can bang-on about making children or the Bible or any other clap-trap that you choose to subscribe to, but it doesn't matter; society has moved-on and if you choose to stick in the dark ages until you die, then that's obviously your prerogative. It matters not.

As for this obsession with sodomy, it's fascinating how this subject always gets raised by straight people, who seem to be more interested in it that us poofs. Inexplicably, in the twisted mind of ill-adjusted straight people, it seems that their definition of a gay man is someone who engages in sodomy. Perversely, the dictionary definition of homosexuality never mentions sodomy oddly enough... Here's the horrible truth of the matter - some gay men do engage in sodomy and some don't. Likewise some straight men also engage in sodomy with women, and some don't. I know it's disappointing to imagine that us poofs aren't all obessed with the subject but I'm afraid that's the way it is, even if media, inter-service jokes and out-of-touch fools might like to suggest otherwise. Actually, the fascinating aspect of this matter is that based on the stories I hear from other people, it's actually the straight folks that seem to spend more time engaging in sodomy, even though they seem compelled to believe that it's us poofs.

It never ceases to amaze me how some straight people seem unable to accept that homosexuality means precisely that - an attraction to a person of the same sex. Everything else, the supposed orgies of sodomy, the drag, mincing, limp wrists, Aids, or anything else, is just baggage that gets attached to us by the media and people who don't know any better. The dull reality is that we're just the same as everybody else. And yet even in 2008, someone still thinks it's somehow hilarious to suggest that one of his straight colleagues is gay. I know service attitudes can often lag behind mainstream society but really... that's not lagging behind, it's standing still!

[Dave Angel]

Good god Tim, wanting us to accept man-love as normal, next you'll be wanting voting rights for women!:rolleyes: (tongue firmly in cheek in case you haven't guessed).

[Old Fella]

Tim, I'll gladly go to my grave believing I'm correct in saying sex acts between men are totally ABNORMAL. My belief is not based on religion or morals, just a belief that homosexual sex acts are not the way. You can do whatever you like but, as I previously said, don't try and convince me that I am somehow out of touch. Just because some in society share your belief and have, in some places, convinced law makers that to ridicule a phoofter is a crime does not make your point of view correct, it just makes it legal.

[anotherthing]

Did you hear the one about the gay Harrier pilot?

He was up his own ar*e. Boom boom

[Dan D'air]

Is Tim a repressed homosexual? I think we should be told.

[brickhistory]

I don't think there's anything 'repressed' about him. *

Rather I believe it's a basic non-understanding for the necessity of military humor - non-PC or not - mixed in with wanting an audience for his Vulcan, et al, books or his 'starter' book for an alternative lifestyle.

Decisions, decisions...............








*(Not that there's anything wrong with that)

[Tim McLelland]

That's fair enough Old Fellah, you're welcome to think whatever you like, I just don't quite understand how you perceive homosexuality to be "abnormal" when it's existed just as long as heterosexuality has.

As for Brick's comments about promoting my books, he knows only too well (or should know, if he's ever actually read anything I've said) that I have absolutely no interest in promoting any of my books. Once my books are published I don't get any additional royalties or other payments, so I have no motive for self-promotion, even if he'd like to think otherwise.;)

Military humour? Well yes, I understand it entirely. It's very easy to simply say "oh you just don't know how we think and how our sense of humour works" but I'm afraid that's not true. I've spent more than enough time with military personnel to know exactly how it works. Basically, it's schoolboy stuff, pure and simple. Nothing wrong with that of course, but my issue here was that it is, just possibly, a little inappropriate sometimes, as in the case of this thread's subject.

[Al R]

Purely on a point of order, I would imagine that heterosexuality has existed for at least 9 months longer than homosexuality has. Unless of course, any of you actually believe that Darwin rubbish.

[Old Fella]

Tim, I thank Al R for his post and I don't quite get your point that because homosexuality has been around for as long as it has that makes it NORMAL. Murder has been around a long time but it is not acceptable and prostitution is known as the oldest profession, but I sure would not like my daughter to be involved in that activity. I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

[TonkaEngO]

Been following this with interest, purely from a professional view you understand.....Some v v old-fashioned, and thankfully rare, views on gays from some people who I suspect have not served for many a year. In my experience, there is absolutely no inference that being gay is 'abnormal' amongst serving personnel. What the f**k is 'normal' anyway?
Having gay guys, and girls, around merely adds to the banter that makes us what we are - as a Service.

Pink soap box put away now.....

[anotherthing]

TonkaEngO

Absolutely correct in your assertion that there are some very old fashined views on homosexuality in this thread - however that's the right of those individuals to hold those views.

The reason this thread has lasted so long is because some people, gay or otherwise, are too sensitive and take the banter to heart. Bless

[Dan D'air]

Bless

Indeed. Bless their little (pink) cotton socks.

[Tim McLelland]

Well as I think I mentioned earlier, I don't take such comments "to heart" but as I also said, I suspect some people might, for the reasons which I explained previously!

Touching of Old fellah to compare homosexuality with murder though... :)

[Old Fella]

Tim, like much of what you have to say, your assertion that I compared homosexuality with murder is absolute crap. In response to your assertion that because homosexuality had been around for as long as it has that made it normal I said that murder had been around a very long time too, but that fact did not make murder acceptable. To me, putting one's penis up another's waste dump chute, male or female, is a totally abnormal act. As for TonkaEngO believing that today's serving military personnel don't think being "gay" is abnormal, I would challenge that statement. Because it is now an offence to vilify homosexuals, and that they are accepted into the military, most non-gay military personnel would not be game to comment openly. TonkaEngO asks "What is normal"? If you don't know TonkaEngO I feel sorry for you. And YES, I wear my homophobic badge with honour.

[brickhistory]

Please let's not give him more reason to pontificate; who cares?

He doesn't get it that he's not entitled to lecture here.

That and his penchent for must having the last word won't change.

Back to the Harrier stuff........................

[Dan D'air]

And YES, I wear my homophobic badge with honour.

Er, shouldn't that be pride.........................?

[Jackonicko]

On which sock does he wear the badge?

[Dan D'air]

Definitely not the left one Jackonicko.

[extpwron]

Mods:

Is it worth merging this with the Hairdresser thread?

[Tim McLelland]

Er... well exactly Old Fellah, you're comparing homosexuality with muder, as you've just explained again! If you think buggery is abnormal or disgusting, then that's your view to which you're naturally entitled. But could you please stop automatically equating homosexuality with buggery maybe? Okay, I appreciate that it might be a pastime pursued by a lot of homos (but by no means all), but then it's also an activity that straight people indulge in too, in just the same way. Homosexuality is simply an attraction to a person of the same sex, no more and no less. Everything else is down to your own preconceptions which, you would find, are slightly out of touch with reality.

Naturally, the Armed Forces have adopted policies which try to eradicate homophobia and prejudice. They'd be completely out of step with society if they didn't. You really can't bang-on about gay people's sexual activities because they're patently none of your business and, more importantly, you haven't the faintest idea what goes on in people's bedrooms in any case, be they gay or straight. This point goes right back to the start of the thread, and the ridiculous schoolboy sniggering about somebody being jokingly "accused" of being gay... we may as well run the gags about keeping your back against the wall, not bending down to pick-up the soap or, as we've just seen, a reference to hairdressers!

Come on; there's nothing wrong with good-natured humour and banter but spare a thought for the people who have to consistently put-up with this kind of nonsense. Nobody asked us poofs if we wanted to be gay in just the same way that nobody asked you if you wanted to be straight. We are who we are, and to pin your dislike or hatred on the basis of perceived sexual acts is just plain silly when, in reality, your lurid images of what you perceive to be "gay sex" are just as applicable to straight sex too, even if such activities might not be the kind of thing that you, I or other forum users might indulge in. It's a completely separate issue. The basic point is that a person's sexuality is a simple fact of life and if you can't (or won't) accept that then it's a shame. Thankfully, the armed forces have started to make some effort to prevent this kind of judgemental attitude, and rightly so, and like I said before, it's all well and good to make friendly jibes against colleagues no matter how "un-PC" they may be, but to start a forum thread on the basis of one?

[Dan D'air]

I think that Tim has just come out of the closet. Ooh er..........

[Tim McLelland]

... you think wrongly then; I've never been in the closet:p

[Dan D'air]

At least not until this thread.............

[brickhistory]

Oh dear Chr1st...............................


Does anyone care?

Anyone?


Bueller?


Bueller?

[Tim McLelland]

For once Dan, I have to agree with Brick - does anyone care?!
Only reason it might have escaped your notice that I am, in fact, a fully paid-up member of the homo club, is that I don't usually feel any need to broadcast the fact, unless asked. I doubt if it would be of much interest to anyone:)

[x213a]

<handgrenade>


The basic point is that a person's sexuality is a simple fact of life and if you can't (or won't) accept that then it's a shame.


Paedophilia could be said to be a form of sexuality also. Will logical progression one day dictate that we have to accept that also...to be p-cee?

Why do some people actively seek offence in anything? Huge chips on shoulders in lieu of eppauletes.:}Those who are good with colours and have hoops like the Japanese flag need to learn to that the majority of us could not give a toss about their bedroom antics just as long as they dont expect us to agree with them.

[Whirlygig]

Auntie Whirls is detecting some inner security issues here. I am a fully paid up member of a number of minority groups within aviation; I'm a banjo-playing, red-headed, Irish, female helicopter pilot. And a Chartered Accountant. If I haven't heard a joke, then it ain't been invented!! :}

Tim, the issue in hand was a joke about a chap, a good egg, whom many of the people here know personally. It's banter, and I'm sure if the fine gentleman concerned took offence, he would have said so, There really is no need to take offence on someone else's behalf. If you have a battle to fight, than fight it on your ground, not on someone else's.

Personally, I don't think there is any battle unless you want to start it. What started as an "in" joke has now become quite unpleasant; not in content but in meaning and someone needs to take a step back, accept things for what they are, brush them off and move on.

Cheers

Whirls

[Dan D'air]

Whirls has got it in one Tim. If people didn't make such a fuss, then it wouldn't ever be an issue. Mind you, I am really looking forward to this year's Straight Pride bash......................

[Whirlygig]

Dan, would have joined you but the dates clash with the banjo-playing-red-headed-Irish-female rotary pride march. :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Junglie]

Wow, I never knew that when I first smirked at the telly on a Friday night and then decided to post my thoughts on here for the light hearted amusement of my ex colleagues that I would spark a huge Gay rights debate!!

Tim, let me educate you a little and open your eyes somewhat.
The banter concerned was nothing to do with the fact that the individual concerned “looks a bit gay” or has come out since leaving the forces. As far as I know he is still failing to trap women like he always did but never did the “ten to two you’ll do” with a man! It has everything to do with his total lack of people skills leading to him (potentially) failing any interview he went for and ending up in a band to pay the mortgage. Perhaps he even had to pretend to be gay to get in (like Whoopi Goldberg pretending to be a nun in that crap film).
Had there been a particularly crap or amusing contestant in Britain’s got talent that resembled the same individual I may have felt it necessary to post that instead.

Had you been “in the know” you would know all of the above and found the joke amusing instead of it sparking some inner desire to expurgate your rage onto this thread, therefore hijacking and ruining my light hearted banter thread.

Thank you to all that have replied with the good nature and humour I intended.
I am though somewhat concerned at the darker elements, perhaps we can leave the paedophilia, murder and Gay bashing to crimewatch.

Love to you all, Bigots, Homos and Banjo playing red headed Irish females alike.

Junglie
:D:ok:

[goudie]

Just as a postscript to a surprisingly revealing thread.
The Torygraph, usually concludes an obituary, of a man who was gay but not openly so, with the words, 'He never married'.
Must say that of all the posts the banjo-playing Irish redhead was bang on the money.

[Dan D'air]

Tim, Had you been “in the know”

Junglie, very well put indeed. Surely everone knows that there is no way that the Ex-SHAR Splot could be gay. He was a WAFU. Besides, all pilots are square-jawed, steely-eyed, red-blooded sky Gods.

[Tim McLelland]

Wow, an awful lot of tangents to go-off on there!
I don't wish to waste time by repeating myself (and boring everyone to tears!) but as I've already said at least twice, it's not about whether the person concerned takes offence or not. Presumably he would think it's just a joke, and if the joke had been based on some other premise I'm sure it might have been just as funny to the people involved, but it wasn't. What I said was that it's just not really appropriate for a thread on Pprune, because the site is used by lots of serving personnel and (perhaps more importantly) lots of people who are considering/planning joining the ranks. My point was/is that the comments simply serve to confirm that some people in the services evidently still think it's somehow funny to post-up that kind of joke which, at its very heart, is based on the notion that being gay is either funny or at least something which has to be highlighted as if it's an embarrassment.

I fully accept that some people evidently think I'm just over-reacting but then it's easy to think that way if you're on the other side of the gay/straight "fence". It might seem like a throw-away comment but endless "friendly" jokes like that have a nasty habit of reinforcing some people's insecurities. Spare a thought for younger guys (or girls) who may well be coming to terms with their sexuality. If they keep on reading comments like that (which by definition, are based on the assumption that there's something funny about it), then it simply reinforces their fears. It certainly isn't going to encourage them to imagine that they'll be welcomed into the services with open arms (ooh er!). Might not seem like much of a big deal to all you seemingly well-adjusted straight people but not to others.

Personally, I don't take offence at all. I've heard every cheap gag and good-natured jibe and nasty remark that you could imagine. I couldn't care less. But I'm also old and wise enough to know that there are plenty of other people who don't shrug-off this kind of thing. It would seem that the MoD's "PC Brigade" are making some effort to persuade service personnel to dig themselves out of this kind of schoolboy silliness but I accept that it will always happen, because that's how service personnel are, by nature. But there is a big difference between mates winding each other up and making friendly jokes, and posting-up that kind of comment on a well-used forum.

I imagine that to lots of you it does look like I'm making a fuss over nothing. But as I've said, it always looks that way if you're not the subject of the joke. What if it had been some equally outdated gag about a guy being black and how he'd been mistaken for a member of a Zulu tribe? Hilarious? No, not at all, it would just sound silly and childish, and serve to convince more than a few black people that service personnel still think it's fair game to churn-out such "jokes" on the basis that being black is somehow funny too. The big difference is that nobody would even dream of saying something like that now, it's just that we're still at a stage in our society where even though most people have grown-up and got over the whole gay thing, us poofs, benders, faries, homos, fags, or whatever other name you like, still have to endure this kind of nonsense that used to come out of tabloids and TV sitcoms twenty years ago. Anyone who knows me will testify that I'm a good natured guy with a very good sense of humour but this kind of stuff, innocent though it may seem, is just tedious and ultimately offensive, and (more importantly, bearing in mind this forum) destructive to the kind of adult workplace that the MoD wants to establish.

Regardless of your views, maybe the simplest way I could ask you to look at this is if you can mentally reverse the situation and imagine how you'd feel if your place within society was also reversed and the joke was being made at the expense of straight people? Before you immediately claim that you'd simply laugh heartily and move-on, try taking into consideration all the rubbish that us homos have to hear and see on a daily basis, and then make a judgement. No, I'm not claiming that our lives are made into misery (although some people's are of course) but believe me, this kind of stuff does get very, very tiresome;)

[moggiee]

Dan, I think you're slightly missing the point? Naturally, a band can call themselves whatever they like, and if they want to present themselves as four "poofs" then that's entirely their choice. Hardly the same thing as trying to get a cheap joke out of suggesting someone is gay who isn't. My reading of the post was that the "victim" LOOKED like someone who is gay, not that he IS gay - quite different.

It has been mentioned that, due to my body shape, moustache, glasses and hair I look more than a little like Captain Mainwaring (and indeed I do). It doesn't mean that I actually AM a bank manager who wears an Army uniform in the evening!

Relax old chap - as a bald, fat, speccy I accept jokes made about me and in return I expect to be able to make jokes about skinny, hairy people with big ears. The same should also apply to race, colour and sexuality - if someone can't take a joke then they should get off the planet!

The original post never mentioned anyone's sexuality.

[Tim McLelland]

geez, talk about missing the point moggie! I refer you to previous posts for any answers you might require:)

[Tourist]

Gay is funny.
Ginger is very funny.
Fat is funny.
Spacky is funny.
Stupid is funny.

Man up wet pants.
Since you are at the very least two of the above,
You are funny.

[Junglie]

No Tim, it is you who are consistently, unequivocally missing the point:ugh:

[moggiee]

geez, talk about missing the point moggie! I refer you to previous posts for any answers you might require:)
The fact that you do not agree with me does not mean that I am wrong - just that we do not agree.

For the record, I believe that the one who's missed the point is YOU - however, I accept that we have differing opinions.

I know gay people who are genuinely happy to have a laugh and a joke about their sexuality - genuinely happy that is, not just putting on an act. They give as good as they get on the banter front - my sexuality/looks/personality etc are all fair game.

Would you be equally upset if the original picture had been of an Orang Utan because the "victim" was ginger and had long hair? No, you'd have thought it funny. But because it pertains to your sexuality then it's a different story. Well, I've got news for you old chap - it ISN'T a different story. Life's like that and the sooner you accept that and come down off your high horse the better.

Gay, straight, fat, thin, bald, hairy, speccy, blonde, ginger, tall, short whatever - we all have a cross to bear and we will all have jokes made about some aspect of our looks or character.

Of course, if we are all so horribly homo-phobic that you can't stand to be in our presence, you are perfectly entitled to bugger off and take your shoulder-mounted-chip with you.

(please note: telling you to "bugger off" has no relevance to sexuality - it's just a phrase)

NB: edited for typo errors.

[Tim McLelland]

hmm... as I feared, this is degenerating into a slanging match which is pointless. I've explained my point repeatedly and as carefully as I can but we're just going to go round in circles here if people simply repeat the same comments. That's no an argument, it's just a series of monologues.

There's nothing I can add really. Every "question" has already been answered in my previous posts, so if this is just going to be more repetition combined with selective silly comments, it's going to be of no interest to me or anyone else. :)

[Dan D'air]

Originally Posted by Tim McLelland http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4163965#post4163965)
geez, talk about missing the point

Tim, I really do think that it's you who has missed the point. It's not about anyone being gay, it's about the said Splot's alleged lack of social graces and the fact that he looks like someone in a band. It could have been Mick Jagger, in which case it would have been even funnier, given the chap's scoring rate compared to old rubberlips.

What is funny, is that had he indeed been gay, he would probably have been more articulate, most gay people I know are erudite precisely because they are "good with colours" in a way that most on here will never comprehend.

I must admit to being slightly puzzled as to why you felt the need to in form us of your own sexuality. It doesn't matter a hoot and the less enlightened souls on here will sadly take what you have posted on this thread somewhat less seriously than if you hadn't mentioned it.

Apart from that, I completely agree with you that a person's bedroom pastimes should be a matter between two consenting adults only and am pleased that this thread hasn't descended into the slanging match so common to others on this forum, it's been great to have watched the discussion and differing viewpoints unfold.

'Nuff said...........Viva la banter and well done Junglie!!!

[Tim McLelland]

au contraire Dan, I don't know how many times I have to say this before anyone understands that I've been saying, but the whole premise of the original throw-away gag is very simple isn't it? It's based on the notion that being gay is funny, otherwise what would be amusing about supposedly mistaking the bloke for a member of Jonathan's house band? It wasn't any other band as well you know, and I don't think any of us are dumb enough to not see why. I'm not quite sure why people can't (or won't) get that basic point.

As for the comment about me proclaiming my sexuality, I don't think I did... I seem to recall that it was you who raised the subject to which I merely answered.:rolleyes:

[Dan D'air]

Tim, I give up:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Tim McLelland]

now, now, let's kiss and make up... no tongues though:p

[Dan D'air]

Absolutely no tongues because that would just be.........well, a bit gay really. :O

[goudie]

I don't know how many times I have to say this before anyone understands

Neither do we Tim. Could you give us a clue?

[Beatriz Fontana]

Dan and Tim,

If you two do, can I watch....? :O

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[orca]

I think we've approached this the wrong way round.

If someone told me i looked like a chap from a band, even one that openly traded upon being camp i would probably either be 'somewhat amused' or might upgrade to 'a little seen off'.

However, if anyone ever tells me i look like the SP in question, I'd sue them to smithereens.

Junglie, i reckon there's a writ on it's way from a piano accompanying poof who'll be a little peeved. He's the victim here.

[BOAC]

You are on the button, orca - suggesting he looks like SPSHAR is defamatory. Can we please now debate this for another dozen or so pages?

[x213a]

My point was/is that the comments simply serve to confirm that some people in the services evidently still think it's somehow funny to post-up that kind of joke which, at its very heart, is based on the notion that being gay is either funny or at least something which has to be highlighted as if it's an embarrassment.



I think you are simply interpreting it deliberately that way in order to justify an outburst of outrage. How about... The irony of one stark contrast being compared to another? A little like alluding to George Bush and spotting a lookalike in a picture of a group of nuclear protesters.

Um..sorry for the escalation

[brickhistory]

Wait for it...............

[Tim McLelland]

Sorry to disappoint you Brick, but as I said previously, there's nothing I can add to posts that simply repeat points which have been made (and answered) previously. You'll have to save your obsessive hatred for me for another time *kiss*

[brickhistory]

And there it is...............



Watch, set, check

[x213a]

"Initiating victim mode sequence start...victim mode enabled":}

[Dan D'air]

I was going to post again, but I just can't be ar$ed. Oops, sorry, are we allowed to say that anymore? If not, what a bummer.

[shedhead]

shouldnt this have been moved to jet blast by now?

[BEagle]

Some rather 'tetchy old queen' comments on this thread.

At least another well-known PPRuNe poof (his own words) used to entertain with incisive banter - truly a gay wit in all senses of the word!

A chum was once involved in filming for some SSVC documentary and the producer was somewhat light in the loafers. But he took and gave the pi$$ quite happily - and also 'camped it up' outrageously; at one stage some paras had to wade through a river armed to the teeth looking all warry. After the first take he squealed "Ooh, that was lovely, dears. But can we do it again - and this time try to be a bit more butch?"

History does not recall the reaction of the para sgt in question!

[Whirlygig]

You'll have to save your obsessive hatred for me for another time *kiss*
Auntie Whirls is detecting some rather disturbed emotions here. Hate is such an ugly word and such a powerful word - it should really only be used very sparingly. I doubt very much whether Brickhistory hates you; he probably just disagrees with you!!!

Let us, for a moment, draw an analogy between gay vs Irish. Both have been subject to hate crimes, both have been subject to various jokes, neither are immediately obvious from outward appearance.

Let us imagine for example, a rather (fictitious) curmudgeonly RN pilot; a PPruner remarks an uncanny resemblance to Frank Carson which is made more humourous and aposite by dint of the fact that Frank Carson has a seemingly opposite personality.

Now would anyone take this to be anti-Irish? :rolleyes: No. Would my fellow compatriots be up in arms expressing indignation? Unlikely.

In my experience, I have found too many individual members of "minority" groups are actually looking for prejudice and seek it out; thus misinterpreting well-meaning banter as something more sinister when it just doesn't exist.

Cheers

Whirls


Now ... this SHAR SP ... single you say?????

[Beatriz Fontana]

Whirls,

That's very dodgy territory. All it takes is an individual's personal perception and interpretation of discrimination or humiliation through what someone else deems harmless banter and next it's a tribunal and ker-ching! a six figure sum in the bank at tax-payers expense.

Individuals have different levels of tolerance towards intolerance. When someone says enough is enough, we should respect that. Mind you, saying that, some people line themselves up for a fall and deserve all that they get. They usually get found out in time.

[Whirlygig]

Bea, why is that dodgy territory? I'm not going to kow-tow to the PC brigade who dictate that I have to tippee-toe around everyone for fear of saying the wrong thing and being sued??? And neither should anyone else!

As far as I can see, the issue here is that one person (only) was offended by a joke which everyone else found harmless. By translating the "joke" to a different, persecuted minority, I am dermonstrating that maybe one person has taken the joke the wrong way and should not have any need to feel aggrieved.

Happens all the time in real life; someone takes offence, another explains that the offence was not meant and all is well with the world again.

I am hoping that the one person here understands that there is no offence meant and none should be taken.

Cheers

Whirls

[straight shooter]

Well Old Fella I think you have the thing bang to rights. If that type of behaviour were natural then the human race would have stalled at rotation:oh: the other comment, re the alimentary tract and the fundamental orifice being a one way street is almost true until one day you hit the big 50 and the MO wants to check your prostate :E Never have I thought so much pain could come from so small an area. Damn glad to be straight!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Old Fella]

Straightshooter. Oh so true mate. You may note my age, had the "rebore" of the plumbing and no more "rear end entry" checks required in the foreseeable future.

[anotherthing]

5 pages for a thread that would have probably run its course after two.

The reason why? Because someone who wasn't in the know about an in joke took offence on behalf of either that person, or because of the lifestyle that he wrongly felt was being ridiculed.

As Junglie has stated - the fact that they look a like Z list celeb who happened to be an uphill gardender was not really the point - if SPSHAR had looked like one of the Wurzels, then no doubt that would have been stated... I can't see that many farmers would have got so worked up.

It's been proved on this thread that there are some extreme views, however Tim claims that homosexuality is as natural as Heterosexuality; the arguments over that have been done to death on here now.

However the point that Tim is missing which is something that is common whenever people try to promote 'minority' or 'different' (for the want of a better word) lifestyles or cultures is that by bleating on so much about it he actually causes resentment and encourages it (resentment) in people who would normally not give a hoot.

There's a fine line between defending yourself or sticking up for a lifestyle choice, however despite some of the comments on here,which people are entitled to have, we are very tolerant in the UK, no more so than in respect to gay couples... hell they have more rights than a man and woman have that live together but choose not to marry.

Continually bleating on about how hard done by or how cruel some people can be does not endear you to otherwise tolerant individuals. After a while it encourages them to have a go at you, not out of any hatred or bigotry, but because they are sick of hearing about it and they know they can wind you up.

That might not be mature in your eyes, but it's human nature and is a particular type of humour that is used in the forces.

You have posted on this forum - it's not Jet Blast but these are people who serve or have served - you must know what kind of humour to expect.

Whether you agree with it or not, your best course of action after your initial complaint, would be to walk away; especially as the original poster tried to explain the post to you (which he did not need to do); yet you still took offence.

People would quickly lose interest if you let it be; because you have not, it still continues.

[Old Fella]

Thank you anotherthing. Let's hope this is it for this thread.

[brickhistory]

"At the tone, the time will be..................."

[Tim McLelland]

Quite agree anotherthing; it's difficult to defend one's position without running the risk of offending people. Personally, I've simply gone way past the stage of worrying about offending people though - it's easier to simply say what one thinks and leave it at that.

Problem is, as I've already mentioned, people have this fascinating habit of posting comments without actually reading what has already been said. So, once again, all of the new posts have simply repeated views which have already been raised and answered at least once, so there's nothing I can add to them, other than to suggest that readers actually read the earlier posts!

Straightshooter - if homosexuality isn't natural, then how come it's existed as long as humans, and is just as common in other species too? I wonder how common something has to be before you accept it as natural? The "breeding clause" is a lame old argument which just doesn't bear scrutiny, but it keeps getting dragged up (if you'll pardon the phrase) usually by the Church-goers.

As for Brickhistory, well, what can you say - he patently has issues with me, as he never has anything interesting to say, but feels compelled to try and have a swipe at me whenever he sees an opportunity. Bless him, maybe I should send him a signed photo? Or maybe a photo of me and Dan? Ooh er!:)

Do wish someone would tell him though, that it's three dots after the sentence, not thirty!:)

[brickhistory]

1030.....................

[B Fraser]

Dan, would have joined you but the dates clash with the banjo-playing-red-headed-Irish-female rotary pride march. :}

Cheers

Whirls


Banjo playing just isn't natural. := Have you tried ukelele therapy ? Let's start with all strings the same length and make our way up towards 6 strings and maybe some chords. Oh, I forgot about the accordion fetish...... ****, why don't you buy a kazoo and stick a finger in your ear.

:E

[Beatriz Fontana]

I'm not going to kow-tow to the PC brigade who dictate that I have to tippee-toe around everyone for fear of saying the wrong thing and being sued??? And neither should anyone else!

I know, I know, but that's sadly not a world we live in anymore.

[Whirlygig]

See? Typical ignorance and prejudice against banjo players. All my banjo strings are the same length! := :} BeeF, you should know better and I'll have to edumacate you!!

Bea, I sincerely hope that I never say anything to upset or offend anyone. That is my nature and the way I was brung up and not because some nanny state has told me what is and isn't offensive to other people.

Personally, I find it offensive to be referred to as a "Chairwoman" or, God forbid, a "Chair" but no, my nanny state employer says I MUST be offended to be called a "Chairman".

Perhaps if more folk stood up for common sense, and themselves, we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation of being too scared to say "boo!".

Cheers

Whirls

[x213a]

Offence is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately, some people thrive on it.

What I do find amusing is (i'm presuming) a civvy chose to express outrage over the humour expressed by a serving and ex mil aircrew fraternity on this forum and had the temerity to suggest justification due to "anybody could read it". Anybody could read anything if they looked-seek and ye shall find. If forces banter is alien to you or you just do not get it, or you have no idea of the concept behind why the forces are able to rib the $hit out of each other with phrases that would make an ordinary's toes curl, or use words such as w@nka as a term of endearment-then you really do not have the right to comment on it's content and have no understanding of the bonds formed that amongst many many other things make us men apart.

Ps, I cannot play the banjo... but I once snapped one:}

[orca]

Is there any chance that SHARSP looks like anyone from the F3 community is there?

[Dan D'air]

Is there any chance that SHARSP looks like anyone from the F3 community is there

There is no way that SHAR Splot could be that gay.

[Beatriz Fontana]

Oh thanks, Dan, you made me splutter coffee all over my keyboard!


:D:D

[Notchy Collective]

Mr Mclennan,

I don't know you personally, but I suspect that you are one of those terribly sincere types that never got over their 'A' Level angst.

Having read all the posts on this thread, it is my belief that no fair minded person could possibly arrive at the conclusions that you did regarding the motive of the original poster. I find that unforgiveable because you have forced me to post and to agree with a fishhead:* never a comfortable position for any ex SH RAF bod.

My advice to you is two fold, 1st let it go mate, life is too short. 2nd, It is dangerous to occupy such a tall pedestal you might fall off and hurt yourself. (particularly if you are wearing high heels).

Kind Regards

N.C.

[Tim McLelland]

...and so the nonsense flows:) I think the winner from the recent crop has to be x213a and his brilliant notion that (according to his logic) it's entirely reasonable to say pretty-much anything you like on Pprune, on the basis that it's just "forces humour". Brilliant!:)

Oh, and Notchy, before you embark upon silly sniping, it'd be nice if you could try and get the supposed victim's name even vaguely correct - the clue's in er... my name - doh!:p

[brickhistory]

You mean the guy that's never served yet feels justified in lecturing those that have/are about what is appropriate for military humor?






Mods, I accept with no complaint whatever your actions will be regarding the following:



Does the term 'attention whore' translate?

[LBGR]

For someone so offended, you seem to be coming back regularly enough, Tim. :cool:

[anotherthing]

Notchy -

Just what were you alluding to when you mentioned 'A' Level angst?!!

[x213a]

Just what were you alluding to when you mentioned Quote:
'A' Level angst
Maybe it was meedya studies:}

Less of the fish head:=

Thats soooo neanderthal!

[Dan D'air]

Less of the fish head

Quite right too, what we need is fish PUNS. In French. Or would that just poisson this thread still further?

[x213a]

Timmypoos appears to have clammed up! Perhaps this is not the plaice for him.

[goudie]

Well it's all bloody codswallop anyway.
Salmon has to put a stop to it.

[Dan D'air]

Surely we could keep going just for the halibut, ShyTorque where are you?

[x213a]

Eel be around shortly maybe, when he pulls his finger out.

[Beatriz Fontana]

You lot are skating on very fin ice...

[Dan D'air]

There must be a lot mer of these jokes to come, because it certainly wasn't the French who crustaceans in Iraq and Afghan.

[wobble2plank]

I love this thread, there must be a plaice for it in Jet Blast. That will just rock them, but I think all of the fun will just clam up :-(

Seems to me a simple jape has been hijacked by the Pee-Cee terrorists!

Personally I think he DOES look like him :eek:

Cheers, keep the vitriol up, makes fun reading :ouch:

W2P

[x213a]

Yeah c'mon..get yer skates on!

[Beatriz Fontana]

Whelk sea about that!

The sword(fish) of fish puns here are of a much higher standard than Jet Blast. Do we really want them to mussel in?

[goudie]

'pon my sole just brill and what fun. We can now have a whale of a time, herring tales of roe from those who carp on about anyfin.

[Tim McLelland]

For someone so offended...

Once again LGBR, I refer you to previous comments - already said repeatedly I'm not offended nor have I ever been, as I explained. I find the more infantile comments quite funny actually, but it is always interesting to hear what people think, be it PC or non-PC!

Brickhistory how you make me smile. You have the nerve to accuse me of being an attention whore, and yet on this and other threads when you've chimed-in, you've never offered so much as a single line of sensible argument. Patently you don't like me (I'll try to cope with the emotional devastation) but really, talk about pots and kettles...:)

[Beatriz Fontana]

Ah, come on Tim, give us a pun!

[Tim McLelland]

fishing for compliments?;)

[Beatriz Fontana]

Tim,

Wha hey!! :D

[brickhistory]

I think you are in there Brick.

Ummm, I hope that's a 'so to speak' type of comment. :E

Not for me where hamsters or gerbils fear to tread.....



Which brings the thread back to a military (you know, those that have served and are thus able to comment here without being a jerk) flavor in that while a gay wingman on a bar foray could act as my 'wingman' back in the day and take the posssesive, fat female friend out of play while the target was pursued, I most assuredly could not return the favor!

[Dan D'air]

Brickhistory, I think that we have all agreed to differ on the fudge-packing issue and have managed to convert this thread into one ripping the ar$e (pun intended) out of the French, all the while making (don't ask me why) fish puns at their sole expense. As much fun as the original thread, but less frustrating.

[brickhistory]

But not on the actually having served/currently serving being a prequisite to lecturing here, I would think.



But, I lobster the plot and will try to bring a ray of hope to the thread regardless.

[Whirlygig]

Well I did think a few people on here were getting a bit snapper but now we've all kissed and made up, there's nothing like a few fish puns to warm the cockles of me heart.

Cheers

Whirls

[Tim McLelland]

Gawd help us Brick, how many times are you going to try that line? Read the terms of use stuff, where it states that the site is also open to civilians who work with the military too, and get over it dear. Shouting "get out of our playground" every time you hear something you don't like is a bit silly. Take a tablet and calm down. I'd suggest fish oil but...

[Dan D'air]

Oh for cod's hake Tim, I thought that we had moved this thread on to bigger and batter things................

[anotherthing]

Maybe he will go and mullet over for a while, unless he wants to carp on about it?

[Green Flash]

I'm sure I've seen him dancing the Conger

[Dan D'air]

Mmmm, McLelland, sounds Celtic so are you sure that it wasn't a reel??

[Tropospherical]

dancing the Conger


..one of the more popular dances at the Blue Oyster Bar.




boom, boom!

[goudie]

Tim brisling at the moment may serve a porpoise barracuda been dace of the bass, had you served.

[Tightflester]

Killer Shark
Kwiksave Frozen Hadock
Kilmarnock

[flipflopman RB199]

Three more....

Keith the Codk
Kevin the Haddock
Kelvin the Blowfishk


Flipflopman

[Green Flash]

We're really trawling the depths now ..... all this crab humour; nurse!

[Whirlygig]

...where the bottom-feeders are found! :}

Cheers

Whirls

[goudie]

...where the bottom-feeders are found! :}


Blimey, at first Whirls, I read that as Bottom feelers!

[Dan D'air]

Shouldn't that be bottom feelers, Goudie?

[goudie]

Buggah Dan, missed a bum, I mean pun.

[Dan D'air]

Does it actually get any better than this? Gay French fish puns. Life is good!!!

[nunquamparatus]

Frankly this sort of humour is well out of order. I think this is disgusting, talking about the guy on the right from 'Four Poofs and a Piano' and comparing him to Seedpie. After all the guy in the band probably has a personality and some talent...................:E

[Dan D'air]

nqpt, you are indeed right, the SHAR Splot couldn't have had a personality, or at least not until he went JFH. God bless the crabs, somebody has to!

[Strangelove PhD]

http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/blackcats/images/team06.jpg

[x213a]

Its out of tuna!

[K.Whyjelly]

Oh good cod, having a whale of a time reading this thread, Some bits good and other bits though, a load of old Pollocks.

[x213a]

Am I Herring this white? Baiting bottom-feeders will only create tenchsion!

[Green Flash]

He's quiet a little scamp, he is!

[Dan D'air]

Am really not sure how this thread got from potentially gay SHAR Splots to fish puns, but if it hadn't it would have been a bit of a bummalo.

[x213a]

I wonder if he's into scat?

Brings a whole new meaning to pufferfish:ok:

[Green Flash]

I suppose now the world is his lobster.

[1859sqn]

Honestly, this plaice just gets worse............

[Beatriz Fontana]

This thread is becoming a bit long and prawn out...

[1859sqn]

I totally agree. Perhaps I'd better scampi off.......

[brickhistory]

I'd have thought once the hook was set, this became 'The Deadliest Catch' thread.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brings a whole new meaning to pufferfish

That cost me a spilled cup of coffee. I demand repayment. :ok:

[1859sqn]

I sense we are all floundering a little here - It does seem to have gone rather flat................