FAA licenses ICAO English procifiency

[172driver]

Not sure this has been mentioned here before (there's a long thread over in R&N, though), but I came across this little bit of info in the current issue of AOPA (US) mag:

U.S. pilots who fly internationally are required to meet an ICAO standard for language proficiency and must request a replacement certificate from FAA with an English Proficient endorsement on it. The original compliance date was March 5, 2008 and in response to barrage of English Proficient certificate requests, the FAA has extended the deadline a full year to March 5, 2009.

Meaning, everyone who flies on the basis of his FAA ticket outside the US will have to get a new plastic license before March 5, 2009.

AFAIK these are also issued with numbers different from the old paper ones, so if you are currently flying on a 'validation' ticket, this will impact you.

The good news is that the new plastic license is the size of a credit card and costs, wait for it, 2 Dollars. Yep, a quid....

[SNS3Guppy]

The plastic certificates aren't issued with new pilot certificate numbers unless you specifically request them.

If you currently hold an FAA certificate, you may obtain a new plastic replacement one with the addition of the English language notation via the internet, for two US dollars, at the following URL:

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/

[172driver]

Guppy, you may well be right there, I was (and am) not sure. The relevant FAA website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/certificate_replacement/) only says they cannot use the original issue date - I may have confused this, but vaguely remember the number issue also for non-US citizens (no SSN). In any case, the change in date may well throw a spanner in the works in some validation scenarios.

Be that as it may, the main aim of my post is to alert people who mainly/only fly outside the US on a FAA ticket to the new requirement, which I don't think is widely known.

[SNS3Guppy]

The FAA threw it out there with less than a month's notice, sending a lot of airines and flight departments that work internationally into a mild panic. The FAA finally came to their senses and gave a year extention.

The plastic certificates have been out for several years now. It's a bit of an improvement over our old paper certificates...which were a bit of a joke because they looked like someone cranked them out on a cheap printer. I think most here would like to see a picture ID on the certificates, and undoubtably that's eventually coming.

In the US, the SSN number is a crucial number that involves not only one's place and account in the federal social security (retirement pension) program, but also in nearly every other aspect from registering to vote to opening a bank account or applying for a passport. It's also a number that gets used in identity theft a lot. Today, most people in the US understand the wisdom of protecting their SSN for identity theft reasons, and the FAA finally got around to recognizing this need by allowing pilots to drop their SSN and get a unique certificate number some years ago. For the past few years, the FAA has been urging pilots to request and obtain a new certificate with a unique number. It's also tied to security concerns.

If you already have a number which isn't your SSN (as you correctly noted, appliable to foriegn applicants), then there's no need to issue a new number. You will always get a new certificate date whenever a new certificate is issued. The same will apply if you seek a new rating to add to your old certificate. When the new pilot certificate is issued reflecting your new certification, you'll have the same number, but a fresh date.

The English Proficiency statement on the certificate is to comply with ICAO standards.

[Mike Cross]

Bad news chaps

You may request replacement of any or all of your airmen certificates with a credit card payment of $2 for each certificate requested.
In compliance with the policy dated July 23, 2002, airmen applying for a replacement certificate issued on the basis of a foreign license under 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.75 or 14 CFR Part 63, Section 63.42, must complete and submit a Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification form to the Airmen Certification Branch and appear at a FSDO for positive identification to make application for a replacement certificate.


Sure enough it wouldn't let me order a replacement on-line.

[IO540]

That's right, holders of piggyback FAA PPLs have to go to the USA to get the new one.

The piggyback FAA PPL has not made sense for years (ever since one had to go to the USA to get it) and now it is positively absurd.

Most holders did this to get the FAA IR and should have done the standalone PPL while out there. All previous training is accepted so it takes only 1-2 extra days do do this.

[BackPacker]

I'm not in this position myself, but the whole replacement thing started because the FAA PPL lacks the "ICAO Language Proficiency" thing, right? Now if you have a piggyback FAA PPL, but your JAA PPL (on which the FAA PPL is based) states that you have ICAO English Language Proficiency, would this not be enough?

I mean, with a piggyback FAA PPL you also don't need an FAA medical as long as your JAA medical is current. So why would this not work the same way for the ICAO Language Proficiency?

[S-Works]

I have asked the FAA for clarification on the requirements for piggy back licenses to have the LP. The feeling is like not having to have a BFR the LP is also OK to be based on the underlying licence as well.

I will report back when I have an answer.

[BackPacker]

The feeling is like not having to have a BFR..

You mean medical? AFAIK having done a BFR in the last two years is still a requirement to exercise the privileges of your FAA piggyback PPL.

[S-Works]

You mean medical? AFAIK having done a BFR in the last two years is still a requirement to exercise the privileges of your FAA piggyback PPL.

No it's not. Actually it has never been either!



QUESTION: The question has arisen with respect to a foreign pilot who holds a Restricted US Private Pilot Certificate, issued on the bases of the ICAO member country. Specifically, is that person required to meet the Flight Review requirements of FAR Part 61.56 (c)?

Review of the “Frequently Asked Questions 14CFR, Part 61 & 141”, question 248, indicates that the flight review is required by a foreign pilot who wishes to operate a US registered aircraft on a Restricted US Pilot Certificate.

The Preamble to Part 61 does not address the purpose of 61.56 with respect to a Restricted Pilot Certificate.

FAA Order 8700.1, Chapter 29, paragraph 5D states; “A foreign pilot applicant should be advised that Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14CFR) Part 61, i.e.. 61.3, allows foreign registered aircraft to be operated within the United States by a pilot holding a current license issued by the foreign country where the aircraft is registered. A U.S.-registered civil aircraft may be operated within a foreign country by a pilot holding a certificate issued by that foreign country. A person may not act as a pilot of a U.S.-registered civil aircraft in the United states unless that person holds a US. Pilot certificate”. Therefore, the restricted certificate must be issued under § 61.75 in order to comply with § 61.3. If the foreign pilot operates the U. S. registered aircraft in a foreign country he does not have to meet Part 61 requirements (including flight review). If he operates a foreign aircraft in the US on his foreign license, he again does not have to meet the requirements of Part 61. The question then is why is it different for a foreign pilot, who is issued a restricted certificate based only on his foreign licenses, than for a person who operates a foreign registered aircraft in this country using his foreign licenses? The answer seems to be; there is no difference. The purpose of the restricted license is to meet the requirements of § 61.3 and that the flight review is not a requirement. In order to exercise that privilege the foreign pilot must always meet the requirements of his foreign license other wise the restricted certificate is no longer valid. Because of this and the fact that the individual does not hold a non-restricted U S pilot certificate, it appears that they are not required to meet any other section of Part 61, other than what is stated in 61.75.

Further, FAA Order 8700.1, Chapter 29, section 2, paragraph 5J states; “Additional Requirements. Advise the applicant of the applicability of part 91 flight rules”. It reads nothing regarding the compliance of Part 61 other than the chapter addresses meeting the requirement of § 61.75. In addition, § 61.75 (b) states; “...A person who holds a current foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may be issued a private pilot certificate based on the foreign pilot license without any further showing of proficiency, provided the applicant:

(1) Meets the requirements of this section;...”. This being the case it appears there is some confusion with respect to the question of whether a pilot issued a restricted certificate base on a foreign licenses is indeed required to comply with the flight review requirements of § 61.56. § 61.75 requires the foreign pilot issued a restricted pilot certificate must meet the requirement of that SECTION and that SECTION only.

Therefore, we are requesting that your office and legal counsel re-review this issue in light of the current confusion and the intended purpose of issuing a restricted pilot certificate under § 61.75. This is an important issue since it appears that Part 61.56 is geared towards and intended for an individual who holds a non-restricted U S pilot certificate. However, there appears to be a question regarding the flight review when the Restricted US Certificate is issued to a pilot based on his foreign pilot licenses and its restrictions.

It is a confusing matter in light of the purpose of issuing the restricted pilot certificate and a legal interpretation of the current rules is probably the only clear solution to the matter.

[englishal]

But note the last line of Mr Lynch's FAQs.....

It is a confusing matter in light of the purpose of issuing the restricted pilot certificate and a legal interpretation of the current rules is probably the only clear solution to the matter.

Personally, I couldn't afford to be involved in a "legal interpretation" in a US court of Law ;)

(not that it bothers me as I have my own stand-a-lone of course ;))

[172driver]

Before we head off riding a piggy on a tangent :), let me clarify that the intention in starting this thread was to alert people who hold a standalone FAA license (like myself; I've got a JAR one too) to the fact that they will have to get a plastic license with the ICAO language endorsement before March 5, 2009 in order to remain legal while flying outside the US.

The 'validation' I had in mind while posting refers to situations where a license is granted on the back of the FAA license (e.g. South Africa, Oz, etc).

[IO540]

I got my standalone FAA CPL replaced for $2, all done via the FAA website. Very efficient and the new plastic card arrived about 2 weeks later.

[SNS3Guppy]

Personally, I couldn't afford to be involved in a "legal interpretation" in a US court of Law


Legal interpretations aren't given in a court of law. These are issued by the FAA Chief or Regional Legal Counsel. These are standing interpretations of the regulation that are legal representations of official FAA policy, often used to clarify the regulation. The Chief Legal Counsel represents the FAA Administrator in issuing these interpretations and as such they are the official word of the FAA. Three sources exist for interpretation of the regulation; Federal Register Preambles, the Code of Federal Regulation, and Chief and Regional Legal Counsel interpretations.

You can visit some of the interpretations here: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Interpretations/

Bear in mind that the FAR FAQ by Mr. Lynch was discontinued several years ago, and while it's useful for a general understanding, was never approved nor recognized by the Administration. Mr. Lynch was responsible for writing or co-writing quite a bit of regulation. His comments and opinions do, however, at times come at odds with the regulation and use of the FAQ as your guidance can on occasion lead you astray.

[zooom]

I've received my Restricted US Private Pilot Certificate based on my JAA licence and there at XIII. Limitations it says ENGLISH PROFICIENT.

What does it means?

[Contacttower]

What does it means?

I received my updated FAA licence today and it says exactly the same on it; essentially meaning that you are in compliance with the ICAO language endorsement requirement for international flight.

[Cusco]

Because the FAA requires all certificate applicants to be able to read, write, speak and understand English, all affected certificate holders are considered to have demonstrated the required language proficiency.
In order to document this proficiency, the FAA are issuing replacement certificates with the required "English proficient" endorsement.

Also fyi - for those pilots who have a FAA based on certificate who have not submitted a Cert of Authenticity within the past 6 months, then you will have to resubmit a new Certification of Authentication request between the CAA/FAA before you can get a replacement FAA certificate.

Are you now saying that UK CAA/PPLs with a 'based-on' FAA/PPL don't now have to go through the rigmarole of travelling to a FSDO in the USA- that the whole thing can be done by post with the appropriate Certificate of Authenticity?

If so do you have an official URL? There has been so much misleading cr*p on this topic in the last 9 months.

Cusco

[Cusco]

All that should be required is the completion of a Cert of Authenticity request
Airmen Certification: Verify the Authenticity of a Foreign License, Rating, or Medical Certification
(assuming that you have not done one in the past 6 months), pay your UK CAA their pound of flesh and then send the $2 to the FAA for the new bit of plastic.

Except that on this form you have to specify which FSDO you would like to go to to pick up your new certificate (Box 11).

Knowing the US approach to form filling (get your visa waiver form wrong at the airport of entry and it's straight to the back of the queue), I don't imagine leaving this box blank would be an option.........

Cusco

[Whopity]

English Language Proficiency on a pilots licence is ony required by ICAO for International radio operation. As the vast majority of FAA licence holders don't actually have a valid FCC Radiotelephone Certificate which is also necessary for International radio operation, the concern about the English Language proficiency seems a little over the top.

If you have a Restricted FAA Pilot Certificate then to use it in the US you don't need English Proficiency on the certificate and if you operate outside the US where there is an ICAO requirement for such a certification, having it on the parent licence meets the ICAO requirement. If the FAA don't agree, does it matter, you are outside their immediate area of supervision and clearly they don't give a damm about the lack of radiotelephone certificates to operate the radio in the first place.

[S-Works]

A very valid point whopity and was inline with the response that I got from the FAA Legal department when I wrote and asked for clarification. Mind you it did take 4 months for them to respond!