Just watched this link on the BBC website.
After carrying rubber bullets in NI many years ago, I would have no problems in sending in several volleys into the crowd.
If need be "Front rank down, second rank fire...third rank up second rank down"

That would send a proper message to the fried mars bar eating dole scum.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7402858.stm

Why use rubber bullets? the full metal jacket variety would be much more effective....

These people are oxygen stealers one and all :mad:

Waste of good rubber. Just cover them in bright green dye - they'll soon run off :ok:

Mmmmmsoylent green.....:ok:


I suppose napalm would cause too much damage to businesses along the High Street.

The pic shows a police dog getting a good mouthful of one of the fans's legs - there is no mention of the dog being off duty with chronic alcohol poisoning as a result.

Unfortunately these occasions attract the type of people that resort to this. The majority who wish to watch the match but do not have a ticket would stay at home and watch it on TV. ITV provided an excellent service.

The answer for most sensible people is if you have a ticket then go to watch the match, if not stay at home and watch it on TV. Clearly those that travel without a ticket need to be watched very carefully. Allowing them to drink all day before the match clearly means they were not watched carefully. But then why should the police be blamed because of a few idiots?

Must have been a "tigers face in the undies" for the cop who went down. Glad to hear that he's relatively ok.

Interestingly at 00:48 in the cctv, some Rangers fans appeared to go to his aid.

Going to be interesting in Russia if they try that sort of behaviour.....

Going to be interesting in Russia if they try that sort of behaviour.....


Rangers Fan Club, Gulag Branch.:E

It's ultimately the arsehole attitude of the fans behind all this of course.

But... to the relevant authorities: If you're going to provide outdoor screens and encourage thousands of "extra" fans to travel and populate the streets (pissed)... do ensure the screens will perform, or at least have a contingency plan eh? It's not like it isn't a nailed-on certainty that trouble will flare if the pics go mid-match is it? I personally thought the trouble was a lot less than it may have been.






(pedant item:- maybe the organisation was by the same person responsible for the messages shown on the (broken) screen. Can anyone write this damn language anymore? Embarassing).

Scores of Rangers fans hurled bottles at technical staff in the city's central Piccadilly area, who were trying to repair a fault with a big screen located there 15 minutes before kick-off. As a result of the attacks, staff were swiftly withdrawn for their own safety.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3936458.ece

It's now thought that the majority of those who were causing the trouble were there for precisely that purpose, out of around 120,000 visitin g supporters their were just over 70 arrests.

I was there for most of the afternoon & at the venue where the screen failed and I can tell you that the very large majority of the "fried mars bar eating dole scum" were very well behaved, even when it was evident that the match wasn't going to be shown.
I don't condone the actions of the few (not scores) who did vent their peurile anger by throwing bottles at the staff trying to fix things, what the media conveniently declined to show and report was the reaction to that of the large majority of decent people there - they made a valiant attempt to stop the violence and I witnessed at least five of the hooligans being handed in to the police by Rangers fans.
Had this been a game involving English supporters, the trouble would have been significantly worse and there would have been many more arrests, very serious injuries and significantly more damage all round.
The GM Police did a marvellous job, it's just a pity that the GM Council didn't think of utilising the many other sports grounds which would have more than adequately hosted the big screen events where the crowds could have been accomodated and controlled much more comfortably.

It's a shame that, whilst I acknowledge the seriousness of the trouble that did happen, it was blown out of all proportion by the media, if any of you had been there, you'd realise how pathetic the media coverage and some of your posts are.:rolleyes::=:rolleyes:

(BTW, I am English, I don't drink alcohol and I am not a Rangers fan).

"it's a pity GM Council didn't think"......

Been this way for years....never accept responsibility....lecture the world on how to live.....and continue in the same vein irrespective.

From the edited shots just viewed on C4, it seems GMP were actually quite restrained and only acted when they had to.....no sympathy for the yobs involved unless of course Strathclyde's finest always say "please stop doing that now, there's a good boy".and this was a new experience for them ? :hmm:

Lets be realistic here.....how many were actually arrested ?.....how many visited the City ?.....do the maths !....if this had been the English version, the town would have been wrecked and the M6 would have been a close second....not seen or heard of any trouble other than the topic subjects and it's a fair bet they weren't "supporters" anyway.

Rangers "fans" - Scum - Bring back Rubber Bullets

Absolutely spot on, at least for the ones caught on that CCTV camera.

Of course it would not only breach their 'human right' to trash the city centre and assault policemen, it would result in countless court cases for injuries sustained.

:ugh: :mad: :bored: :mad: :confused: :mad: :ugh: (<---frustration beyond words)

Thing is, after the 'Bears scum had finished trashing Manch...did anyone notice the difference.....:E ;)

Seriously though, they brought shame to their team, to their city & to Scottish football - PATHETIC :ugh:

For those wo are saying it is only the few. Do the maths etc, what if it was the English etc etc.
That is no excuse, there were scores doing it. There were others egging them on.
It is great to see a large crowd enjoying themselves and it is great fun, however there are those that are out to cause trouble and they found it.
If the police were able to act forcefully, then the idiots would know better next time.
in Europe what do they do, pull out the hickory and give a bit of shoe.
Thats what we need to do. It works and all these bleeding hearts have never been on the receiving end of something like this.

the reason most of these people do this sort of thing, is because they have never been hurt in a riot, the police take the pain and it is just another statistic. When the top shed of the police say that the officer is okay and has some slight bruising, they fail to note that his life probably flashed beforre his eyes, he may have trouble sleeping and will hurt like F the next day. Its frightening.
The yobs will boast about what they have done. Knock the fcukers down with a group of charging Horses and batton the crap out of them afterwards, they wont be back again.
A rubber bullet to the thigh will put the recipient off work for a couple of weeks. Try explaining that to your boss, wife, parents. Then again scum congregates.
Niknak I am suprised at you.
I also believe that at least one chap fought to protect the Copper on the floor. Stand up that man and be counted.

"Niknak I am surprised at you."

WHY? because he does not agree with your puerile views?

PS I have used a spell checker to correct your spelling mistakes in your verbose quotation. :ok:

"Niknak I am surprised at you."

WHY? because he does not agree with your puerile views?

PS I have used a spell checker to correct your spelling mistakes in your verbose quotation. :ok:
I think we have the right to disagree with someone's opinion in a mature and measured way (as Monkey did), there's not need to act like a tw:mad:t glad rag. You are the reason most interesting debates plunge into bickering and insulting.

(glad rag - please note this has NOT been spellchecked, feel free to do so)

Niknak and Gladrag.....

I suggest you view again the CCTV images....and then estimate the numbers involved as part of this reprehensible behaviour.
If you guys SERIOUSLY believe that your normal, reasoned and self respecting behaviour in ANY way cuts some slack to the "scum" who carried out these acts..them IMHO you are living on a different planet.
As for the media blowing it out of proportion......the cctv footage removes all doubt regarding the level of "proportion" given.
I wonder Niknak and Gladrag, would you happily express your views to the Policeman who was mobbed?

Truth bit to much to take? :ouch:

Thanks to these few mindless prats the Red side of Manchester misses out on big screens in the city centre next Wednesday. Ta for that. :suspect:

A bloody shame that a few spoil it, as usual, for the rest.

confiscate the passports of the offenders......

ooops sorry x we are not quite there yet...

mr brown shud visit manchester to show solidarity with the upholders of the law..

As I said, I do not condone in any way at all the mindless behaviour of the few, who in my opinion were determined to cause trouble come what may.

The vast majority of us were well behaved and as I said, the Rangers fans made a real effort to stop the trouble and help the GM Police whenever possible.

I hadn't viewed the CCTV footage before I originally posted but I have now and I hoped it can be used to put away the perpetrators of the violence - to them the football was a far distant secondary consideration.

If need be "Front rank down, second rank fire...third rank up second rank down"

That would send a proper message to the fried mars bar eating dole scum.

You were only meant to blow the bloody doors off!!!

Will Brown re-think his crazy idea of resurrecting the auld enemy clashes. Or pehaps he assumes he has clout!

Supposedly crime levels in Glasgow where down 35% that day. I suppose the problem just moved down south for a bit.

Most people I spoke to later on complained more about paying 5 pounds for a pint, then about the fighting, but then again, they're Scottish :}

Why the surprise that a bunch of pi$$ed up neanderthals who got confused when they couldn't argue with each other over whether Ian Paisley or the Pope gives the best head, resorted to fighting with everyone? When you have the IQ of a retarded fruit fly it's hard to know any better, so top marks to the Manchester organizers for running a few "what if" scenarios and failing completely to predict this. If only Manchester had its own history of football violence it could have drawn on to help plan this better...

As a 'Yank' most of us in the US just don't get why soccer get's people to the point of beating the crap out of each other...

sounds fun actualy...but maybe you guys can give us some inside info on why the fan's are so ravanous about soccer on the other side of the pond.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, it is a bit of a rush.

In the eyes of the perp, innocent victims are few and far between, most people involved are seen as soldiers.

Back in the 70's I was in the centre of a massive fight at a Norwich v West Ham game.It seemed as if everybody but me was brawling,although I guess it was probably less than half the spectators.I would not have been to pleased to have got a rubber bullet intended for the Neanderthals,but of course the chances of it being me would have been exactly the same as it being them.

Thankfully those days have passed.It didn't need a genius however to work out that 50,000 ticketless Scotsman + alcohol + losing the game was going to ensure that very few of them were going to get confused with a ray of sunshine.

Alas there are no restrictions on domestic travel. There will be no trouble out in Russia next week because the police will be doing the usual crack down on travel out of the UK.

As a 'Yank' most of us in the US just don't get why soccer get's people to the point of beating the crap out of each other...


One never has been interested in football (soccer), one played and supports Rugby and so one is unable to explain the phenomenon. We used to have all of our violence on the pitch between the players.:E

I also believe that at least one chap fought to protect the Copper on the floor. Stand up that man and be counted.

It is being reported today that it was an Army Medic who pulled the copper clear and protected him. :D

Good Lad.
Wasn't RAF then? :E

I hope this puts an end to the c**p that the media trots out at every international tournament involving a Scottish team - that Scottish Fans are Soooo much better behaved than English fans...

Judging by some of the Sky coverage early on Wednesday from Manchester some of the supporters were either still P****d from the night before or were already well into their liquid Breakfasts. All explained as "high spirits" by the talking heads in the studio of course....

I live and work in the city centre of Manchester. When I left work on Tuesday afternoon (16:30) I walked through Exchange square and there were hundreds on Rangers fans congregated, already quite worse for wear. On my walk to work the next morning (08:00) I walked through Exchange square and it was as if there had been a glitch in the time space continuum. There they all were again swigging their cans of Tennant's and chanting, again already quite worse for wear. When I left work that day (16:00) I walked outside to utter chaos. Just outside my office there was a man weeing against a wall in full view, beer cans littered the streets and Exchange square was a sea of blue. Nothing could have prepared me for the mess I found the next day. Manchester is nearly back to normal now though, although Paperchase will need some new windows and the streets need a good hose down. I've never seen anything like it in all my years living here.

While all this was going on in Manch, there was another side to it all up in Glasgow. Rangers fans were tying scarves and shirts to the railings outside Celtic Park as a mark of respect for Tommy Burns, a man whom they hated during his time as a Celtic player and manager. They did however, recognise that a great footballing talent had passed away too young at 51 and paid tribute to him in a peaceful and respectful manner.

Doesn't excuse the behaviour of a few loons in Manch, but shows that not all Rangers fans are scum. Although I suppose it's easy for people in England to ignore this side the of Rangers supporters actions.

The UK has become a festering sh*thole populated by the sort of scum we see here!
Where will it end? I despair for the future of my children!

As for "Scum", 'fraid to say Standard Noise that a fair few of said "Scum" spoke with accents not from my part of the world, but yours!

(This from a family member who is a BTP copper, [British Transport Police, BTW], who had the "pleasure" of dealing with them on the trains.)

Irrespective of whether they spoke with Scottish, Irish, or, (if you believe some of the fish'n'chip wrappers in this neck of the woods), "English" accents, what should happen to them, if voiced here, would earn me a banning from these pages. Just use your imagination peeps, you'll be closer to the mark than you might think...

:mad:ing :mad:s, the lot of 'em...

-LoneWolf-

Ah so the Sky News pictures were pretty accurate then, even if the comments weren't....

Standard Noise

Fair comment, I must admit I wasn't aware of the other goings on in Glasgow and thanks for pointing it out. I know most clubs have a solid core of well behaved supporters, just a shame about the few who **** it up for the majority.

Lets hope for a good game at Wembley this afternoon ( and on Wednesday night :D )

Where does this idea of 'A FEW ' mindless idiots come from.

Every single one of the Jocks, man , woman, child, baby was hammered after necking barrels of wifebeater in Manchester.

Now we have to listen to them bleat on about poor organisation, conspiracy theories on the failure of the screen, police dogs picking on innocent convicted murderers just trying to enjoy the game and now the inevitable 'it was english fans all along'.

Still good to see the Bravehearts showing their true colours. Hundreds of them armed with nothing more than knifes, bottles and steel capped boots valiently battling a sole policeman on the ground. Another great example of the real Scottish spirit shining through.

Thanks to these few mindless prats the Red side of Manchester misses out on big screens in the city centre next Wednesday. Ta for that.

A bloody shame that a few spoil it, as usual, for the rest.


Spot bloody on mate, The sparks that screwed up a simple wiring job should be hung, drawn and quartered :ok:

A frightening example of the herd mentality when that copper was tripped up. Thank god one of those hooligans had the presence (sobriety?) of mind to drag him to safety otherwise I'm sure he'd have been beaten to within an inch of his life or worse. All it takes is one kick and with dozens raining down on him his chances would've plummeted by the nanosecond.

The main reasons behind street violence these days is Hollywood movies and violent video games, etc.. Here the characters withstand ridiculous thrashings and walk off with nary so much as a scratch and less intelligent members of the public cannot equate this to real life. In real life all it takes is one careless kick or one careless punch and it's curtains.

Therefore, as much as I hate to say it the problem lies (partially) with censorship of home entertainment and the movie industry. The rest of it lies with readily affordable alcoholic beverages available on the corner of every working class street.

It can only get worse before it gets better, if then.

We are sinking into the arena of the mentally challenged being allowed to run amock without sufficient regulation. You can say it starts in the family home and yer damned right, but in order for that to improve it must first start with effective government, if you break it down. Effective law set by an effective government - that is where we must first look as a nation if the revolution against this rise in street crime endemic within our society is to begin.

The Scots going on the rampage in Manchester is nothing compared to the wider picture. That was just good old fashioned British football hooliganism - it's the tip of a very big iceberg that needs proper attention and is just as big a threat to our civilisation as terrorism.

VFE.

I applaud your viewpoint VFE.

As you rightly point out, it is only a fragment of the big picture and for "Rangers fans" you could equally apply the title almost any booze fuelled mob.

If the consumption of the legalised, tax raising, stimulant cannot be controlled, then how do we expect the non-legal varieties to be so.


Unless of course you are branded as one of the great, untouchable role-models, like Winehouse et-al, who can consume with repeated impunity and without fear of recrimination.


Great signal to send out !!

VFE,


We are sinking into the arena of the mentally challenged being allowed to run amock without sufficient regulation. You can say it starts in the family home and yer damned right, but in order for that to improve it must first start with effective government, if you break it down. Effective law set by an effective government - that is where we must first look as a nation if the revolution against this rise in street crime endemic within our society is to begin.





You're right of course... general, everday street crime is the main concern. Notwithstanding this Manchester incident, football-related violence is much lower than in the bad old days, 25-35 years back... much lower. There are different forces at work with the mob mentality in play, as shown by the many occasions when offenders have been revealed as "responsible" well qualified family men, well beyond their youth. Many (most?) of those involved Wednesday were not exactly adolescents, it appears.

Crowds (of mainly men), beer and sudden disappointment will always be a risky situation, at least in this society.

I think that in most countries if you piss someone off you can expect a punch on the nose. If you piss a thousand people off you can expect a riot. It's simple human nature.

Our problems are much deeper and can only be resolved by a total government rethink on our society's values and the introduction of some rather draconian law changes until the public start towing the line. Only then can they be relaxed again.

Meanwhile I shall probably bog off to another country cuz it's clear this country will go down the kermit one way or the other.

VFE.

I guess if you piss off 11000 people as in Manchester. you get a riot of the scale that was witnessed.

Rocket science it is not.

Considering the sheer numbers involve I reckon the authorities got of very lightly.


Join us here VFE. Days of Wine and Cactus :ok:

Meanwhile I shall probably bog off to another country cuz it's clear this country will go down the kermit one way or the other.




Me too.... soon :ok:

rab-k - got any proof that Northern Irish born Rangers supporters caused the trouble in Manchester, or are you trying to off load some of the guilt of your fellow countrymen?
Oh and while we're at it, why does it have anything to do with me if they did?
Scots football supporters have caused trouble in England before, it's been well documented. Not many countries (if any) have a bad word to say about Northern Irish football fans.

Wind yer neck in!

"Got any proof"

Only the word of an in-law, (who is English BTW), who can distinguish between the various accents to be found in these isles.

As for "caused the trouble", no, that's not what I was told. However, if you'd said "invloved in the trouble", well, what do you think?

Read my post, you'll see I've nothing but contempt and a few ideas for places to stick electrodes where those :mad:s involved are concerned.

As for "guilt", I doubt it, more like shame and disgust from people here I've spoken to.

You're right of course, nobody I know has a bad word to say about "Northern Irish football fans", but then again, "Northern Ireland" weren't playing at the time, were they...

Ahhh, Central Manchester. Where else would you want to be on any day throughout all this good earth when the sun goes down, eh?

Such a beautiful location, the people, the sounds, the wildlife, the smells...

...but then, all gone in an instant.

Cabbages,
Given the absolute certainty of your post, can we assume you were there to witness said scenes. Or are you like the many who are taking the news from Sky as verbatim.
It's strange that when the Beeb or Sky report aviation stories the journos are ripped apart for the inaccuracies in the reporting, and yet in this instance it seems that they all should recieve a gold star for their obviously outstanding reporting skills.

It may Interest you to know that GMP and GM Council both stated that the vast majority of the supporters were well behaved, and a small minority were intent on causing trouble from the outset.

Violence involving alcohol soaked football fans is not a new phenomenon recently introduced into England by the visit of Rangers supporters, it has incase you havent noticed been around in England for a while.

I think the Scottish/English/Irish/British, anything-ish angle is irrelevant here, and unproductive. Football (and other sport) violence happens the world over. Look on YouTube. My own experience of it is within Europe only, and it is the same wherever you are, varying only in extent and how it is tolerated.

It doesn't matter if every Rangers fan in Manchester was pissed out of shape on Wednesday: there was, overall, little trouble. There is much more everyday violence on the streets, and much less soccer violence than in previous times, in the UK. The people that kicked off Wednesday are in the wrong, and are arseholes for their behaviour. If that one screen had not malfunctioned, we would be looking back on the hosting of a major event across a city complex, tens of thousands of fans, with almost no trouble.... not too bad.

I bet there were more pockets picked than faces punched.

Extra police officers on Sunday are patrolling the streets of Oldham, a mid-England town near Manchester, following a night of violence between hundreds of Asian youths and police.

A Greater Manchester Police spokeswoman said there had been renewed "sporadic fighting and stone throwing" in various parts of the town.

More fighting has broke out in Oldham following Saturday night' s riots, during which up to 500 youths hurled petrol bombs, bricks and firecrackers at police lines.

At least 15 officers and 10 civilians were injured, and 17 people arrested.

Shots were fired from the crowd and at times, the bombardments of missiles forced police to withdraw.

Community leaders believe the violence erupted after a gang of white men attacked a shop and threw a brick through the window of a house where a pregnant Asian woman lived in the Glodwick area of the town, a BBC report said.

Oldham, where about 12 percent of the 219,000 population is of Asian origin, has seen several incidents of racial tension over the past few weeks.

In early May, Home Secretary Jack Straw banned political marches in the town in response to fears of growing racial tension.


20 Hurt, 17 Arrested in British Race Riot
More than 20 people were injured and 17 arrested after hundreds of youths clashed with police in northwest England overnight, British police said on Sunday.

Police fought running battles with up to 500 stone and petrol bomb-throwing youths in the streets of Oldham, near Manchester after Saturday night clashes between rival white and Asian groups escalated into a riot in which cars were set on fire, pubs firebombed and gunshots reported.

At least 20 police officers were injured and 17 people arrested after weeks of racial tension between white and Asian youths erupted into violence.

The riots started after a gang of white youths attacked Asian homes in the Glodwick area of the town earlier on Saturday evening. Four people were arrested in connection with that attack.

Asian youths have blamed police for failing to react to attacks from white racists on their communities over recent weeks.

But Chief Superintendent Eric Hewitt denied this. "Tensions have been rising in this borough for some months and extra police have been on patrol but no one could have predicted the ferocity and violence that took place," he said.

He said community relations had been set back but steps needed to be taken to "rebuild trust".

He rejected suggestions that tensions in the town had turned some places into no-go areas for his officers, but said police would maintain a high presence throughout the bank holiday weekend.

Oldham, just outside Manchester 2001. Seems the locals can cause their own problems without any outside assistance

As is the case with most major towns and cities. But that's not the point is it? You picked an exceptional case there though with the Oldham riots. There had been racial tension in that area for decades: -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_Riots
There hasn't been anything happen in Oldham even close to that scale since 2001.

In this instance 100,000 Rangers fans traveled on mass to Manchester city centre. At first it brought a smile to my face to see the fans marching out of Victoria station in good spirits and singing their supporters songs. Hours later I watched them sitting on top of road signs, drinking themselves into oblivion from early in the morning, incessantly blowing their stadium horns, taking over and trashing every bit of green space in the city centre, drinking off licenses out of stock by early afternoon and urinating in the streets. Manchester was violated. I'd never dream of going to another city, throwing rubbish all over the floor and using the street as a toilet :(

Chaps we are talking about Football hooligans here, not Scottish or English personalities etc. The streets of Scottish Cities are actually quite civilised places (mostly) would you believe and we don't all go about getting pissed, urinating on war memorials or punching seven shades of shit out of the local constabulary! Look at the problems with soccer violence in Italy, doesnt mean to say that all Italians are scum bags! Football brings out the worst in humanity, it's a sad fact.

I've always detected a very strong anti scottish vibe on this website, it's a shame really as this is meant to be a 'professional' Pilot's website where its members are mostly educated people. Friendly banter between nations is fine, but some people go a little too far in voicing hatred for my liking.

How did I miss this thread?! Anyway, firstly let me say from the outset that I am a Rangers fan, and I was in Manchester. I was however at the game so I missed all this violence and only heard about it afterwards. I do not condone the actions of the few involved - Rangers fans or not - and I hope they are convicted as the result of a drive within Rangers' fans groups to identify anyone involved.

However I believe that this whole thing is only getting so much attention because at the time the eyes of Europe were all fixed on Manchester. I have been on the receiving end of much worse before. Any time I, as a Rangers fan, go to away grounds such as Aberdeen or Hibernian in Edinburgh, not to mention Parkhead although it is better these days, I risk being on the receiving end of a beating from a blood-thirsty mob. I have been chased through the streets of Leith. I have had missiles flung through the windows of the bus I am travelling on while leaving Aberdeen. It's not nice but things like these probably happen every week somewhere surrounding a football game. Is it ever reported? No, because it's not attractive enough to the news agencies. On the night of a UEFA Cup Final though? Yes, lots of sensationalism is possible so lets go overboard.

What is being overlooked is the majority of Rangers fans, well in excess of 100k, who had a great time. I had good chats with police officers, local bar staff, employees at the City of Manchester stadium. Even when the riot police were deployed as a precaution after the match they were chatting away. I took a Russian fans picture with two riot police officers and everyone was more than happy to interact.

You show me a grouping anywhere in the world that doesn't have its fair share of idiots. Politicians. Armed Forces members. Members of the emergency services. Dare I even say it, pilots. While the majority of these people are upstanding models of decency there are always going to be the certain few who could tarnish the reputation of the majority, but I don't feel we should ever let this affect our overall opinion.

All I ask is that you don't let the actions of a few idiots who may or may not have been in Rangers merchandise (I will not use the term fans - these are no fans of my club) tarnish the reputation of us all.

using the street as a toilet

Sadly not just the streets. I had to get the cleaners out at work, just in front of the check in desks. YEUCK.

Looked like a typical Saturday night chuck out in Manchester to me.

What's the problem ?

40 odd arrested ?

That's good, you get far more than that on an average weekend night.

Manchester can handle it.