Commissioned pilot transfers between UK services - how many, how easy etc?

[airborne_artist]

Interested to see if at present/in the foreseeable future there are any transfers possible from/to RN/Army/RAF for UK commissioned RW QSPs. I know it's been possible in the past, but is that still the case?

If so, which services are easiest to transfer into/from?

And this is not a "my friend would like to know thread" :ok:

[Occasional Aviator]

Also a few RN RW pilots now flying for the RAF. Never heard of anyone going RAF to Army though, and that might actually be quite difficult 'cause you'd have to know all theat 'soldier first' and 'officer' stuff.....

[MaroonMan4]

Come on Airborne Artist, you have been around long enough to know the answer to your own question. Of course you can transfer between Services and there are formailised instructions on how 'candidates' (or your friend ;) )can do this. Just ask your friendly desk officer, poster or appointer. They will undoubtedly have all the information to hand and guide you/the individual accordingly.

As to the easiest Service it will always depend on supply and demand - just as any other company/HR management. At the moment there is a pilot shortage that is forecast for a number of years with a current sensible QSP bridging package to 'grease the wheels' into civvie strasse. But in 5-10 years time you could be Gods gift to aviation and all of the Services may be full with not a hope in moving between Services if the airline/civilian sector changes (and we all know that it is cyclical - currently on the international rise for the next 10 to 15 years if you believe Flight Interntional).

What is truly in favour these days and now widely accepted is Jointery and with JFH and JHC then mixing Services has potential to add Joint experience above and beyond the usual exchange programmes - both in the cockpit and in the necessary desk/operational staff tours.

However, based purely on what goes on PPrune my gut feeling is that the Teeney Weenies would be the easiest to transfer to as not only are they are also involved in the global shortage of pilots that is seeing their pilots easily exit into civilian flying jobs as per the other 2 Services - but the whole Apache spares/support/flying rate debacle combined with the very uncertain future of FLynx is resulting in a very uncertain future for the Hairy Arm Corps and therefore low morale is and uncertain future is adding to the 'push' factors.

But - ask around, go to the horses mouth, visit these people and find out for yourself - then go to the manning/personnel desk to gain advice on how to effect a transfer.

[airborne_artist]

MM4 - check yr PMs...:ok:

[Melchett01]

Believe quite a few Army & RN types are serving on the Merlin fleet. If one really wanted to come across to the civilised side of things, volunteering for a posting to Merlins might be a way in, followed by a potential transfer of services once you had completed the course.

Just a thought.

[dave_perry]

If turned down by the RAF because of size...but the RN say 'Yes' to you, would it be then possible to transfer over to the RAF or Army after serving with the RN for a number of years?

[Maxeret]

AA
check pms.
rgds Max.

[Occasional Aviator]

Dave Perry,

the answer is a qualified 'yes' - the RAF recruits [ab-initio] people who (anthropometrically) will fit into any of its cockpits. The most confined cockpits tend to be FJ, and I seem to recall that the limiting factor for the RAF was actually the Hawk. The RN's requirements are less stringent because a) most of their aircrew fly helicopters, with larger/less cramped cockpits than FJ and no tiresome concerns about being within ejection seat parameters and b) fewer people apply to the RN so they don't have to use every possible way of whittling down the numbers like the RAF does.

However, as a QSP transferring to fly either a particular type or role, all you would need is to be able to fit into ONE of the types you are able to fly. hence it should be easier to get in if you're oversized or oddly proportioned.

Naturally all of the above is subject to the previously mentioned factors of manning etc.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Never heard of anyone going RAF to Army though

Well, I can think of 2 - G***** Sh***** and A* H*****. Former was last seen by yrs truly as a Sqn Cdr in BAOR while the latter - an ex-SH-crewman - went on to have a successful flying career as Driver Airframes. Got himself commissioned too.

Mind you, these were both late 70s/early 80s...

[Muzza9999]

Just a quickie,

I transferred to the RAF SH force from the AAC due to a variety of reason - uncertainty and lack of faith in Lynx / Flynx being top of the list. I am content with the move, however there are some serious issues surrounding the pension you (or anyone who is thinking of it) needs to look at. In a nutshell if you have 8 years or more to serve then fine, but if you have less then watch out because the RAF are inflexible in terms of length of commission, it's 8 years and not a day less. This means that if you have 6 years to push until your Immediate Pension Point (IPP) you have to serve an extra two years unless you wish to leave on a PVR (IE significantly reduced) pension. No-one told us this at the time and there are at least three guys that I know of who are very un-happy bunnies. We were assured at the time that there would be no change at all in our pension rights (which technically there aren't but it a little bit "small print" for my liking). We are re-dressing the issue and watch this space, buf if anyone wishes to PM me about it please do and we can chat about the impact on you.

Regards.

[Gnd]

Yes but A* H***** went back and ended as SL

[teeteringhead]

T&B

G***** S***** was last spotted as a Mil/Air Attache somwhere, as a half colonel ....

.... don't know if he counts though, wasn't he a TA Para even before he joined the RAF???

[Army Mover]

.... don't know if he counts though, wasn't he a TA Para even before he joined the RAF???Think I met him when he was serving with 5 AB Bde, most strange in Army uniform, Para beret & winged, but AAC badged with RAF pilots wings.

[Occasional Aviator]

And A* H***** doesn't count as we were talking about QSPs - which he wasn't when he transferred AFAIK.

[CirrusF]

Do transferred aircrew generally wear their wings of origin? Or the wings of their new service?

[Occasional Aviator]

you wear the wings (or brevet) of the Service you're in at the time. I've seen an ex-AAC NCO as an officer cadet at Cranwell, wearing RAF wings.

[Junglie]

Thats not strictly true as i know an RN FW pilot who still wears his old AAC wings on his No 1's uniform.

[Occasional Aviator]

That doesn't mean he's correct!

[Muzza9999]

Just to clarify;

As of this year a military pilot will wear the wings of the service that he/she is serving in. This is the "official" dress policy, though people on other bases may not have it enforced.

[411A]

Transferring between services.

Don't know specifically about this in the UK, however...
My present business partner, who joind the US Navy as enlisted (low) rank guy, after four years, transferred to the USAF, trained as a pilot (F-4's) and left the USAF after thirteen years as a bird Colonel.

A true story.

How did he do this?
He was attached to the CIA after pilot training, and was assigned rather dangerous duty...that he will not talk about, to this day.
He was shot down twice just off the coast of VietNam (missles, both times)...and was fished out of the water by the very same distroyer he was on in the Navy.
He was also awarded two silver stars and one bronze star...and they don't just give these away.

Now comes retirement collection time.
He was in the USAF reserve until reaching the twenty year retirement requirement, but now....the USAF cannot find his records while he was attached to the CIA, so no retirement pay, at least up to this point.
He is a very talented guy, and was on the team that developed the software for the B2 bomber.

So much for being on the 'dark' side.

[seakinger]

Its easy to transfer... just ask the appointer of the service you wish to transfer to. paperwork all sorted and all i had to do was pvr. no loss of seniority or pension (but that was to the RN.. maybe the RAF do stitch you like a kipper on your pension!)

I know lots of AAC going RAF, a few AAC going RN and even know one RN who went AAC. Cant see the problem really.

Oh, I still wear army wings. Thats what i was given, and until the RN presents me with otherwise thats what i will keep wearing. Yet to meet anyone in the service who minds... (as do all my mates who transferred). Might (again) be different with the RAF.