Flying to Edinburgh [Archive]

NorthSouth

9th May 2008, 22:18

silverknapper:Certainly CBN is very close by and much cheaper. Train station as said above is very closeCumbernauld is not close to Edinburgh, it's about 30 miles by road. The nearest rail station to Cumbernauld airport which has service to Edinburgh is Croy which is 3.5 miles away and trains from there to Edinburgh are not frequent - around once an hour.

Last time I checked, Kirknewton was not accepting any visiting aircraft and the based civvies were only allowed to fly when the gliders weren't active.

Fife (EGPJ) is the best option. Phone them on 01592 753792 for details. Transport to Edinburgh not brilliant but you can get a taxi from the airport to either Markinch or Thornton station from where there are trains about every half hour to Edinburgh (journey time about 45 mins).

NS

jgs43

10th May 2008, 06:24

with ref to Kirknewton -

NAVW: Q)EGPX/QWGXX/IV/M/W/000/020/5552N00324W005
FROM 07/07/13 08:42 TO PERM U1580/07
E)ALL PILOTS ARE REMINDED THAT ROYAL AIR FORCE KIRKNEWTON, 5 NM SOUTH OF EDINBURGH PSN 5552.27N 00324.05W IS STRICTLY PPR AT ALL TIMES.
PPR CAN ONLY BE OBTAINED FROM HEADQUATERS AIR CADETS, ROYAL AIR FORCE
CRANWELL, SLEAFORD, LINCS, NG34 8HB.
CONTACT NUMBER 01400267612 OR MOBILE 07771 942452.
F)SFC G)2000FT AGL

silverknapper

10th May 2008, 12:47

Northsouth

I'm not sure how much closer you expect a train station to be to a small GA airfield, I would say 3 miles is pretty close.
Again I'm not sure why you chose to contradict everything I said but looking at the Scotrail timetable I note that trains from Croy to Central Edinburgh are every half hour from 7am till 8pm. Journey time 40 mins.
I also note that the Croy -Edinburgh train stops at 3 stations on the way. The last time I was unfortunate enough to take a train from Edinburgh to Fife I seem to remember around 10 stops.
Whilst neither has any published approaches, although there is an unofficial one at CBN using their NDB and DME, anyone flying to CBN in poorish Wx can fly the EDI ILS to break cloud for CBN. Have done it many times with no problem from EDI ATC whatsoever. Mind you this is probably possible at Fife too.
If you are in a heavy a/c CBN is around 150m longer. I go there in either an Arrow or Baron. With a few mates on board, with luggage, especially in summer I find that extra length reasuring.

I and several friends of mine regularly visit Edinburgh. Having weighed all the options up we opt to use Cumbernauld for all the above reasons.

I hope this satisfies you Northsouth. You seem terribly offended by my advice which was offered in the spirit of goodwill, and backed with a fair amount of flying up here. Your statement about Fife being the best option is very closed, perhaps you have shares there!!

Oldpilot55

10th May 2008, 13:15

I think Mr Mounce has enough information to makeup his own mind. I checked on the map to see how far Glenrothes (Fife) was from Edinburgh.
Glenrothes does have a fine restaurant,the Tipsy Nipper and sadly Cumbernauld has only a cafe. Quite a good one, however. Both airfields will give you a friendly welcome. Kenny at Cumbernauld may be in a good mood if his team gets a result in Mancunia this week.

FERRYAIR

10th May 2008, 13:33

Depends on what you fly as to what options you have, Kirknewton is Strictly PPR and whilst it used to be fairly GA friendly, now it seems anti GA (other than based GA)
But certainly worth trying contacting Cranwell to see if Permission is available (weekends are a 'no-no' though) THE RUNWAY THERE IS RATHER STONY & PROP DAMAGE IS A GAMBLE !!!

The Train Station of Kirknewton is about 1 mile away and easy walk, but in the village (0.5mile) you can also get the No 28 Bus straight into Edinburgh for £2.50

There are other nearby options if for example you were flying a microlight.

Heidthebaw

10th May 2008, 18:34

I didn't know Kenny at Cumbernauld was a Zenit St Petersburg Fan. It's amazing what you learn on PPrune. :ok:

NorthSouth

10th May 2008, 19:03

silverknapper:You seem terribly offended by my adviceNo, not offended. Just thought "very close" might be misinterpreted. I see now that you meant "reachable by taxi" rather than walkable.
Coming back to the main point, it's very sad that the capital city of Scotland remains so inaccessible to GA aircraft.
NS

Perra

10th May 2008, 20:49

Easy to get to Edinburgh from Cumbernauld. Done it many times. No more than 1 hour on the dot from to Edinburgh Waverley. The train runs 42 and 12 min past the hour on weekends and a cheap day return ticket is 9.60. Never crowded unless rugy or the famous two have a game in Glasgow;)

fisbangwollop

10th May 2008, 21:36

Try East Fortune EGEM to the east of Edinburgh??

fisbangwollop

10th May 2008, 21:38

http://ukga.com/airfield/east-fortune

russellmounce

10th May 2008, 22:22

At the moment I'm flying a PA-38, but I'm about to move away so will either go back to the PA-28, or maybe start flying a robin.

What are the landing fees like at these places?

Oldpilot55

11th May 2008, 13:16

East Fortune is a microlight strip. The long runway to the east of the microlight strip is usually out of bounds. It has car boot sales at the weekend. Someone feel free to correct if this is not up to date.
Fife and Cumbernauld will charge you about a tenner, possibly a little more if you are staying overnight.
Fife will discount a meal at the Tipsy Nipper if you uplift fuel, or at least they used to.
Cumbernauld is your best bet if you are coming from down south.

cats_five

11th May 2008, 14:50

AFAIK you have to be on gliding business or a member to land a power plane at Portmoak.

Captain Smithy

11th May 2008, 14:51

The (grass) runways at East Fortune are rather short... might want to polish your short-field skills first! As far as I am aware PPR is absolutely essential, not sure if they'll welcome a Group A aircraft or what sort of fees they'll charge.

What is the parking/handling at EDI these days anyway? Last I heard it was in the region of £85 for one night... that was a few years ago. Landing fee is currently £25.

Smithy

russellmounce

11th May 2008, 19:01

That was my main concern, the big handling/parking fee.

It's a long trip for me, so i'll probably leave it until I need to do some serious hour building. I was just looking for other options if I do fly myself up there.

Dicky5

4th Jun 2008, 20:09

I also have a need to get to Edinburgh from "down south" end of June, the Flybe total quote comes to £720 total for self, wife + toddler, so my PA28 preferred!

Does anybody actually know how much it is to land and stay overnight, meaning in the last few months please? My Pooleys says BAA rates, whatever they are! :confused:

Secondly, is there a flying club where one can avoid handling charges etc? :ok:

S-Works

4th Jun 2008, 20:35

Been loads of times. £114 all in for a Seneca or the Malibu. Thats handling the works. Tried Glenrothes etc and by the time I had paid Taxi fees, landing fees, train fees etc Edinburgh still worked out cheaper and faster.

Sometimes people look for the most convoluted route to save a couple of quid and it costs them more.....

Dicky5

4th Jun 2008, 21:18

Many thanks for that, Bose X, very helpful.

I also agree that after mucking about with trains / taxi etc it is quicker and probably no more expensive to just pay up and shut up! Didnt ask what the fuel cost was there, but as per another thread, we really dont get much of a say in where we fill up sometimes! TheHangar.co.uk gives 1.49, early March, guess it's more now...

This fee plus the 9 or 10gph ish for my fan at the front to cool the pilot, I should still be better off (even ignoring the challenge / fun), than taking a Flybe!

Thanks again. :ok:

NorthSouth

4th Jun 2008, 21:23

Dicky5: probably in the region of £120 for a SEPL overnight.

There is a flying club, but no concessions available on landing fees etc I'm afraid.

NS

Dicky5

4th Jun 2008, 21:31

Thanks NS, yes your ball park agrees with Bose X.

I will pay up willingly.. well, pay up anyway....

Thanks!:ok:

Dicky5

5th Jun 2008, 07:38

For info, I also emailed Greer Aviation late last night.

Got a very helpful reply first thing this morning:

Landing :- £36.00
Nav fee :- £10.00
Parking :- £0.49 per hour
Handling :- £44.00

Very impressed by the fast reply, received from
Brian McLean.
Greer Aviation Ltd.
[email protected]
www.greeraviation.com (http://www.greeraviation.com/)

NorthSouth

6th Jun 2008, 18:44

Dicky5:Very impressed by the fast replyBut not, I trust, by the numbers it contained.
NS

S-Works

6th Jun 2008, 19:40

But not, I trust, by the numbers it contained.
NS

Why not? Seems reasonable for a busy airport with all the facilities. Or were you expecting it be a fiver because you are in a spam can and why should you pay?

englishal

7th Jun 2008, 02:30

Cost me £90 handling (landing, nav fee, handling charges) and 1 nights parking, then £40 in a taxi down to the hotel in the Royal Mile. Plus about 130 litres of Avgas.

Next time I'll take EasyJet and the bus ;)

Captain Smithy

8th Jun 2008, 10:45

S-Works

8th Jun 2008, 12:59

"Why not? Seems reasonable for a busy airport with all the facilities. Or were you expecting it be a fiver because you are in a spam can and why should you pay?"

I cannot believe there is someone out there who thinks that >£100 to visit in a SEP is "reasonable", whether you are landing at a major international airport or a farm strip.

What are these "facilities" you speak of?

Smithy

ILS, lights hard runway, air trafic services. full all weather airfield, handling services etc.

Why should you be any different if you visit in an SEP or an A320? You use the same facilities (and for longer due to lower speed).

It beggers belief at times....... :ugh:

englishal

9th Jun 2008, 06:11

ILS, lights hard runway, air trafic services. full all weather airfield, handling services etc.
Of which the ILS, lights, hard runway, air traffic services and landing made up £35 (about £20 landing and £15 navigation charge), then to be waved 10m to a parking spot £55. Well worth it ;)

Captain Smithy

9th Jun 2008, 06:22

S-Works

9th Jun 2008, 07:27

Fair point Bose-X, you are correct there, but I'd argue that VFR light singles don't require ILS, nor do they require "handling". Anyway, just my opinion...

Incidentally, ATC at Edinburgh are excellent.

englishal: So did you also get the little van to drive you the couple of hundred yards to the building?

Smithy

Just because you don't use them does not mean they are not available!! Unless of course you want the controllers and firecrew, etc etc etc not to paid just because you did not use them?
;)

As far as the handling is concerned,, if you don't ask you don't get. I get driven into town by them. Just as when I fly to Birmingham I get driven to the NEC. If I pay for a service I expect to get it. I also get my flight plans flied by them, weather reports etc.

I expect to pay paid handsomely for the work that I do and expect in a capitalist world that others also expect paying........

n5296s

9th Jun 2008, 16:13

Amazing, what people consider reasonable. Try flying to, say, Sacramento - which as state capital of California certainly justifies comparison to EDI. Landing fees, $0, nav fees (huh?) $0, parking, $0, handling $0. The FBO there seems to stay in business so I guess they must make money, which comes from the profit on fuel. But you don't have to buy any if you don't want to. US pilots complain bitterly about FBOs that charge you, say, $20, waived if you buy fuel.

The above is true pretty much anywhere. SFO will cost you quite a bit, around $300 currently I believe, in other words a little more than EDI. But the last time I went into LAX in my 182, it was $40 for handling and no other charges. No 100LL though, and I think my plane, hidden away behind the hangar, was the only piston plane on the airport for the whole day.

Of course Europe is vastly more expensive and there's nothing to be done about it, but that doesn't make it *reasonable*!

n5296s

S-Works

9th Jun 2008, 18:46

American airports are funded by the FAA and local government. UK airports are private business. They have to charge to be able to operate the business and return to shareholders. It is that simple.

Tom Geake

28th Jul 2008, 10:08

I want to use Kirknewton (in spite of the stones) in a PA28. I have applied to HQAC for permission. Does anyone know if avgas is available there? Any other advice will be welcome.

dont overfil

28th Jul 2008, 10:14

No avgas at Kirknewton. Use Cumbernauld or Fife. £1.44 + VAT at Fife last week.
DO.

17thhour

28th Jul 2008, 20:08

excuse my mind-blank, but what is the "nav fee" actually paying for??

and as for the handling charges, what services do they provide for the £55?

I get driven into town by them.

would most major airports offer this service?

NorthSouth

29th Jul 2008, 13:45

17thhour:what is the "nav fee" actually paying for??Controllers' salaries - NATS bills the airport for every movement handled.
what services do they provide for the £55?Invoice preparation ;)
NS

PPRuNeUser0178

29th Jul 2008, 16:31

I just found this thread and thought that I would add that a few weeks ago whilst taxying out at EDI I overheard a disscussion between what looked like a PA-28 and ATC.

The PA-28 was sitting about half way up 12/30 waiting to go the GAT, and there was another light aircraft waiting to get out to fly.

The PA-28 was a visitor and had booked through Signature and was self handling ( what ever that means ).

What happened next beggered belief ( and this was not the fault of EDI ATC - for once :ouch: - as they just pass on the message from Blood Awful Airports ).

ATC : " The airport authority say that the GAT is full and have asked you to leave"

PA-28 : " I have booked in with Signature and they said it was fine "

ATC : " I ll get back to you "

ATC : " Nope, full up you are asked to leave"

PA-28 : " I was going to be staying for a couple of days "

ATC : " Sorry you have to leave"

PA-28 : " Well I do have a pregnant lady on board who needs the loo and I also need fuel "

I had to leave at this point so I don't know how it turned out, but I have been around EDI airport for over a decade now, and GA is just not welcome, they have made that clear.

On a Saturday if the weather is nice and ATC have tower doing ground as well you can hear the irritation in soem controllers voice when PPLs want in and out of the zone or the airfield, its just very busy.

However if you do go to Fife, I would advise you to hanger the aircraft ( I believ there is plenty available ), The airfield is NOT secure and aircraft and cars have been vandalised badly there if left outside in the past. Hangarage is fine though. I do believe Cumbernauld is at least surrounded by a big fence. Glenrothes is not.

Oldpilot55

29th Jul 2008, 18:38

Cumbernauld indeed has a big fence. Not a good place to park a car overnight unless you can sweet talk yourself inside the fence where there is ample car parking.

17thhour

29th Jul 2008, 21:02

Cumbernauld indeed has a big fence. Not a good place to park a car overnight unless you can sweet talk yourself inside the fence where there is ample car parking.

I've been, and theres absolutely no need to sweet talk from what I experienced.

NorthSouth

30th Jul 2008, 07:15

ezydriver:On a Saturday if the weather is nice and ATC have tower doing ground as well you can hear the irritation in soem controllers voice when PPLs want in and out of the zone or the airfield, its just very busy.I think you're being unfair to EDI controllers. There is one individual who tends to get a bit more stressed than the others when it's busy, but in my experience he's just as irritable with the many cases of foreign airline and bizjet pilots who clearly haven't read Edinburgh's AIP entry or don't have the aerodrome chart in front of them as he is with light aircraft wanting zone transits etc. I can't recall a case of a light aircraft calling up EDI for a zone transit and being told to remain outside CAS and stand by, then not getting a clearance. I don't believe there's any ATC irritation with light GA at Edinburgh, in fact if anything it's the opposite because light aircraft make the job more interesting.
NS

dont overfil

30th Jul 2008, 08:54

I'd love to know the outcome. Someone is being a right pillock here. I mean how much room does a PA28 take up.
If they had to leave I wonder if the landing charges were waved?
BAA seem happy to close runway 30 to park airbuses do they not understand a light aircraft only needs a little patch of grass?
I hope the minister for tourism finds out about this!
DO.

xrayalpha

30th Jul 2008, 09:04

NorthSouth wrote:

"I can't recall a case of a light aircraft calling up EDI for a zone transit and being told to remain outside CAS and stand by, then not getting a clearance. I don't believe there's any ATC irritation with light GA at Edinburgh, in fact if anything it's the opposite because light aircraft make the job more interesting."

As a microlight pilot who used to fly punters on jolies from Cumbernauld around the Bridges, I found Edinburgh very very helpful.

I did once get refused an entry by Edinburgh - but that was a day when one of those electronic thingies that helps the shoppers' buses find the runway was broken, and the chaps and chapesses in the tower were having to work really hard. So no problems there, as a far as I was concerned. (and the punter thought it really interesting when a jet which was asked to hold replied: If I can't get an approach within 30 secs I am going to have to divert!)

Very best,

XA

ps Of course, at Strathaven we have no big fence, no handling fees and no tarmac. But we do have 530m of grass and hot water!

Gav28

15th Jun 2009, 21:32

Hello,

I am planning a trip to Edinburgh for 2 nights soon, departing from the south of England. From reading around the various threads a Pprune search yeilds I get the impression they are not all to keen on GA aircraft visiting. I would however very much like to use Edinburgh rather than a local GA strip (mainly for the experience, to use the ILS and it would be a lot more convenient) so I have no issue paying the fee.
Is there a best time to aim to arrive, when ATC are likely to be least busy and most accommodating?

Also if anyone has done the trip recently from the south be interested in any other tips/advice.

I'll be in a Warrior, I’m a relatively low hour PPL and I also have an IMCr.

Cheers.

dont overfil

16th Jun 2009, 07:45

You should have no problems. Read the notes in Pooleys, Book in with Greer Aviation by phone before you leave. Mornings and early evenings seem to be the busiest. You may get an ILS if it's quiet (or essential) but expect to be held. Remember listen to the arrival ATIS.
The Spaedadam ranges to the southeast seem to be constantly active. Plan to fly around.
DO.

fisbangwollop

16th Jun 2009, 08:09

If your coming up give Scottish Info a call on 119.875........I will try and ease your passage into Edinburgh......one thing you must do though is book in through a handling agent "Greer"....I had ATC turn 2 German PA28's away the other day as they had not used a handling agent. PH are GA friendly but if the TMA inbound rush is on you will have to hold....try early afternoon to arrive and you should mis the rush. Plan to route via NEW or between D510 and D512 if you work Newcastle on the way up they should transfer you to me once they have had enough of you!! If you work London Info like wise they will transfer you to me..

Good luck and have a nice flight.:ok:

mikehallam

16th Jun 2009, 10:28

They must breed miserable SOB's for ATC at Edinburgh.:=
I still carry the scars from their abusive & disruptive efforts 21 years ago when starting from there for an FAI timed flight to London.
mikehallam

dont overfil

16th Jun 2009, 12:31

I've flown from/over Edinburgh for many years and have usually found them courteous and helpful.
They are however pretty busy and don't have time to suffer fools and stutterers. However if the ILS is down..........
DO.

NorthSouth

17th Jun 2009, 09:30

They must breed miserable SOB's for ATC at Edinburgh.
I still carry the scars from their abusive & disruptive efforts 21 years ago when starting from there for an FAI timed flight to London.
mikehallam21 years ago!!!? Well, there's nothing like festering grudges to keep you going. If it was an FAI timed flight I'm guessing they weren't too keen on guaranteeing you a specific departure time and no delays. Sounds entirely reasonable to me.

gav28, it's not that they're not keen on GA, it's simply that GA has to fit in with the 90% of traffic which is commercial air transport. In addition to Greer you should ask Signature for a quote (0131 317 7447).

You will have to be very lucky to get an ILS and unless it's a Saturday evening you're unlikely to be fitted in. If you really want to get an ILS approach you should phone Edinburgh ATC in advance and ask to speak to the watch manager or supervisor (0131 333 6239). Be aware that if they're using 24 they may well put you on the localiser six miles out over the sea.

NS

FrankLeeSpeakin

18th Jun 2009, 21:33

I have lots to say about dear old EDI but lets save that for another time. What I think needs to be made clear first off is if you are landing/departing ANYwhere within the CTZ - that's up to 10DME from EGPH you MUST book in/out with the ATC watch manager by phone there as well as at your chosen site, whether IFR or VFR.
Kirknewton is run by the local Air Corps and is usually very active up to 4000 agl saturdays and sundays with thweir towed gliders and they keep a list of permitted light aircraft. If you aint on it, you aint getting in.
As for the controllers, definitely pot luck who you get. Some are very easy to deal with and accomodating. Others will have you "stand by" for up to 15 minutes to get any IFR scheduled pax traffic in ahead. These ones just cant seem to cope with mixed traffic....
Enough for now before I really get into rant-mode.
:-)

Gav28

18th Jun 2009, 22:14

Thanks very much for the replies guys, very helpful. Yes I thought trying to get an ILS might be optimistic, no problem just crossed my mind as I like to try and get one when ever i can for practice.

Thanks again.

Kiltie

19th Jun 2009, 11:14

I haven't had time to read all 3 pages of this thread so apologies if this goes over old ground. I normally land at Cumbernauld to visit Edinburgh but only if a mate can pick me up with a car.

If it's corporate entertainment for a client you are doing, or your visit involves passengers who don't have a fascination for all things flying; there's an awful lot of pratting about going to CBN or Glenrothes arranging comparitively dull onward car travel to the city. Depending on how you value your time, it's worth considering the extra expense of EDI to arrive effectively on the doorstep of the city or Ingliston for the Royal Highland Show.