CPL Cross country suggestions...

[Vone Rotate]

Hi all,

A friend of mine planned a flew a CPL x-country route yesterday going form Duxford-Lydd-Bembridge and back.

The route was over 300nm but as the crow flies (which would mean flying over London's Class A) it is 250nm. He got told on his return by another pilot that his qualifing x country trip got knocked back by the CAA as they take it as the crow fly's.

Is this the case?? I was planning on doing the same route but looking at different ones now.

Also does anyone know if you can make more than the two away landings as stated or is that the minimum rather than the maximum as if he landed at lydd on the way back as well it would have been over the 300nm again:ugh:

Any advice or suggested routes most welcomed:ok:

[squirrelysquirrel]

Sugar, I didnt think it was as the crow flies, and I hope it isn't or else mine will need reflying as I did Barton-Sywell-Duxford-Barton, which is over 300nm on my route, but 250nm direct from door to door...

[ExcelXLS Driver]

Hi,

Go to Jerez, and fly to Portimao, which is near Faro then go to Cascais. Its a lovely flight is over 300nm and I flew it at FL100. You will received radar advisory and vectoring which makes it a real easy flight. Beats anything in the UK.

[EK4457]

Sugar, I didnt think it was as the crow flies

Of course it's as the crow flies! :ugh:

Please don't tell me you have added up your individual legs. Otherwise you could have flown a swirly zig-zag between three airfields within 20 miles of each other so long as it adds up to 300nm. Not quite the point of a commercial qualifying flight, is it? The whole idea is to get from A to B via the most commercially expiditious route. God forbid that it requires a controlled airspace crossing or such like.

Read LASORS. It's all in black and white. A commercial pilot would.

Go to Jerez, and fly to Portimao, which is near Faro then go to Cascais. Its a lovely flight is over 300nm and I flew it at FL100. You will received radar advisory and vectoring which makes it a real easy flight.

Must have been challenging! Did you use the GPS coupled autopilot?

Beats anything in the UK.

Really? I'd be surprised if you have ever flown VFR in the UK. If you have, you would know that it reqiures a degree of situational awareness higher than most other places. Does that mean its not much good?

Besides, whats with this 'one' QXC flight people go on about. You have 100 P1 hours to fart around with. Do two. Three. Four! Doesn't cost any extra.

Sorry to rant. Just wanted to say this:

Going to do a commercial course? Think commercially.

EK

[expedite08]

My qualifier consisted of me extending round a bit to make up some millage! I have put all my waypoints in too! Soon to be sending my CPL off for issue! will see what happens!

[EK4457]

The silly thing is: you'll be fine. They never check anyway.

[G SXTY]

Your qxc would have to be pretty blatant for someone at the CAA to pull out a half-mil chart and a ruler.

For example, Stapleford > Norwich > Lydd > Stapleford is 290nm ish in a straight line, but over 300 if you route via SFD (I know, I measured it). I wouldn't expect a phonecall enquiring on your route.

[Lurking123]

How about something different? Guessing you're starting at Duxford (?), how about North Wales and the lakes? Or maybe you could do a booze cruise to France? I just don't see the point of treading the weary path to somewhere you may well have been before. Accept you need to log about 3+ hours flying time and make the most of it.

If it was me, I would do something like Duxford - Popham - L2K. That looks pretty close to 300nm.

[Vone Rotate]

Do a lot of people cross the water along the VFR recommended route by Isle of wight? I'm not sure I can clench up for that long!!;)

I've visited L2K once and crossed at Folkstone-Calais

[Lurking123]

Regularly. As long as you are properly prepared, its just a mindset. Just think how ETOPs will feel when you're down an engine and a couple of hours from a dry runway!!!

[LH2]

I'd be surprised if you have ever flown VFR in the UK. If you have, you would know that it reqiures a degree of situational awareness higher than most other places.

I would be interested to know what you base the above assertion on, and respectfully I beg to disagree. Matter of fact I found VFR flying in the UK to be rather dull, compared to the other eight countries I have VFR experience on.

I only say this because people might be misled to think that because they can fly comfortably in the UK, flying abroad will be a piece of piss, which it is not (this is not to say people should not try it, au contraire, it's a highly educational and most fulfilling experience--should be compulsory for aspiring commercial types :))

As for the original question, I wouldn't think being a few miles short would matter as long as the intent is there, but as usual, these things are better (and authoritatively) answered by a quick call/e-mail to the CAA.

[EK4457]

Hello, LH2.

I base the assertation on the FACT that UK has some of the most dense traffic in the world. Controlled airspace as a percentage of total country area is one of the highest in the world. Therefore, you need to have a higher degree of spatial awareness than most. Spain included. Fairly straight forward.

I know that the US has busy airports, and that parts of europe have complicated airspace. Im just saying that it is more compact in the UK. Add the WX into the mix and it is more challenging than most. If you don't like the view, then fine. Dull it is....

However, I think that you missed the jyst of my post. I was clearly pointing out that just because flying around Jerez is piss easy, why would that make it 'better' than the UK? I agree that 'better' is purely a subjective term. However, I would put a very convincing argument forward that easier flying is not 'better' flying.

"This is your Captain speaking. Sorry today's flight has taken twice as long, I just wanted to fly the easy route today"

Commercial flying requires commercial thinking. I don't care if its in a dull place or not.

EK

[Simon150]

I am planning to do my qualifier tommorow. Could anybody answer the previous question as to whether 3 landaways (i.e. 4 airfields in total) count. I am sure it does but can't find it written down anywhere. This is my current plan!!!

Thanks

[LH2]

I base the assertation on the FACT that UK has some of the most dense traffic in the world

I couldn't possibly comment, not being privy to the statistics you quote, but even so a causal link would not follow in any possible way.

I was clearly pointing out that just because flying around Jerez is piss easy, why would that make it 'better' than the UK?

Hmm... ExcelXLS main assertion was that it was a 'lovely' flight (having flown in the area I'm led to believe that), he also said that receiving what in the UK is known as a RAS (FIS for the rest of us) makes it 'easier' (hard to argue with that, I would think). Lastly he said such a flight 'Beats anything in the UK'. While not explicitly stated, I took that to mean that being somewhere different to your local area, up there at FL100 nearly mixing up with the big boys, and receiving the same level of attention from ATC as they get, he felt it to be a more enjoyable experience (perhaps dare I say, more relevant to a CPL candidate) than bimbling about at 3000ft steering clear of CAS between two minor airfields in Britain. I might be completely wrong about this, of course, I'm just subjectively interpreting his words.

I would agree that flying VFR in the UK would be interesting if you could routinely ask (and be granted) transit through the likes of Heathrow or Gatwick, if you routinely landed at big international airports where taxiing to your parking area tests your navigation skills more than getting to the airfield in the first place (and GPS usually doesn't help there), or if the level of service you received, in the air and on the ground, was comparable to that the big guys get.

But IME, that is not the norm over there, and the VFR flying I've seen and experienced there was, quite frankly, dull. Watching out for other traffic and making sure I don't enter CAS without a clearance gives me as much of a buzz as staying in lane and not bumping with the car in front while driving, you see? Don't know... I'm sure there's more to it than I've experienced :confused:

May I ask, just what kind of VFR (or otherwise) experience have you got outside the British Isles (or inside, if you prefer)? Only reason I'm asking is because I can't quite understand where you might be coming from, with such a disparaging reply to what, it seemed to me, was essentially an interesting suggestion from ExcelXLS.

Simon150,
Could anybody answer the previous question as to whether 3 landaways (i.e. 4 airfields in total) count

Sorry, don't know where to look for a quote other than LASORS, but may I suggest, phone the CAA and ask them directly (Ok, a little bit late now, do they work Saturdays? :O) [FWIW, I too think it counts]

[EK4457]

LH2, I am disapponited to see that your bowels have failed to pass that dictionary you seem to have swallowed some time ago.

Whilst not in anyway concise, your point is, somewhat, missing the point.

[patronising tone terminated]

No, a link to stats do not follow. I can't be bothered and it's not my point.

I am just amazed at the attitude (and lack of knowledge) of some people towards the CPL course.

FL100 with RAS is not going to improve your VFR navigation skills. Or any other skills for that matter. Even if it is 'enjoyable'.

I've flown in france and Ireland since you ask.

EK

[charliegolf]

EK4457 said:

Of course it's as the crow flies!

Who says?

CG (Who briefly checked LASORS out of curiosity, and saw no such stipulation)

[LH2]

I am disapponited to see that your bowels

Oh well, is that really all you can contribute to the discussion? Welcome to my killfile, then. The company there is not good, but at least it's numerous. :ok:

[A and C]

Why not save yourself at least £60 on this flight (and get a decent lunch).

Go to abroad and get the tax back from the fuel, just fill in the form (HO60) with the duty paid fuel chits and the nice man at the C&E will send you a cheque (about £60 for a PA28).

To lazy to fill in the form? fly abroad out of Lydd and you won't be charged duty on the fuel uplifted.

So can you think of any reason why you would want to do this trip inside the UK?