Unhappy pilots

[Avpsych]

I have been reading the African threads for some time now and there seems to be a common pattern - everyone is unhappy with their jobs! Have any of these moaning pilots ever had a job outside of aviation? The sort of problems you bitch about are common in any workplace. Do you enjoy flying? If so, stop moaning and enjoy your job! If you do not enjoy flying - do something else. You might just realise that you have the same grief in any other job but in aviation at least you can fly!
Stop moaning and start appreciating the fact that you can fly for a living!

[passionforflying]

Avpsych,

thank you for your positiv comment! I agree with you 100%!!
Saying that, it's good to be reminded of the fact that I am actually one of the few lucky ones that gets paid for doing what I love doing most!!

a very happy passionforflying :)

[razorback]

Avpsych - 100% on the money. You are right. Too many of us complaining, while there are guys and girls out there in other jobs, who work, so that they can fly for fun!
Professional pilots should be smiling all the time, despite hardships and inconvenience here and there. The flying makes up for it all.
What a privilege.
:ok:

[NG Driver]

I agree with everything that's been said. I'd just add that this IS a rumor network, rumors tend towards the negative, and I think it's just the nature of the beast here that you'd see more negative stuff. Also, it's been extremely helpful to most of us, serving to temper our frequent meanderings of the mind where we sit around (with all that free time we have :-) and wonder if the grass might be greener on the other side.

I note you posted on the African Aviation forum.. Makes sense enough as you are in Nam. Please note however that the guys at the "top end" of aviation, airline guys making over $100,000 a year, are bitching just as much. Seeing it from the inside (aviation) it's sometimes amazing how people and organizations can fail. It is frankly, interesting to read about.

Personally, I'm blessed, and have been so all throughout my journey.

[Shrike200]

No proactive person should allow themselves to sit idly by and watch their company be managed into the ground - because then they won't be doing what they love. Just ask any Nationwide pilot - the bitching is generally for a reason, it's not all about T's & C's, although poor remuneration and working conditions are often a symptom of an overall malaise.

In short, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism - and since pilots have almost zero say in the strategic running of a company, but have to sit by and watch the idiocy reign supreme, combined with the fact this is a 'rumour' network, then yes, you'll see a lot of complaints here. It's pretty logical if you ask me...

[oompilot]

That’s ironic Avpsch, your post doesn’t seem that positive either. Now when there’s nothing material to moan about you moan about the moaning. Oddball!:confused:

[eish]

In my humble opinion I would say that there are pilots who fly because its their passion and there are pilots who do it because it is just another glamorous job. You decide under which category the complainers fall.

Though I agree with Shrike's comments about common sense and sound business practises that should prevail when running an airline.

Despite the heated arguments in the Airlink thread I still know guys who are really happy there.

[rabidpangolin]

Spot the join date...stir away...:cool:

[CJ750]

avpsych and passionforflying

How long have you guys been flying and where does your company send you to. :8

[surely not]

Well although I'm not a pilot, I have spent a long time working in aviation and had to work with pilots for a lot of that time.

They moan and bitch pretty much the same as anyone else, it's all hierachal. The line pilots can always do their line managers job better, and the line managers think the Chief Pilot is a tosser, the Chief Pilot thinks the Board are idiots who understand nothing.

This is pretty much in line with moaning and bitching found on check-in and in the loading sections.................the next rung up the ladder are all fools and they should be replaced by...........the person moaning of course!!

The only difference I would make is that pilots are more likely to think they understand ALL areas of how to make an airline work. That many do not is proven regularly by some contributors to these pages and by the number of airlines that have been set up by pilots and failed...........someone else can google the figures I've too much to do!!

Rarely does an airline fail for one reason alone, nor does it succeed for one reason alone. Improving the T's and C's of aircrew might ensure you attract sufficient crew to fly, but it won't guarantee success unless many other factors are right.

I think it is sad to watch the enthusiastic newbie slowly become blase about their job to the extent that they stop enjoying it and then resort to whining and moaning about what is generally speaking a top 5 job in the employment pile.

[Lynessa]

Us as crew tend to forget what an important role we play in the Aviation industry in keeping most of the operators alive.
Maybe it's time we start showing the industry how much we can actually do to make things happen and make things work, obviously without breaking any laws.
It's time the crew and Operators stand together to make things work, we in for some very hard times and we need to stand together to beat what is waiting for us.
We need to see everything in a positive light and walk the extra mile on making things work.
We spend allot of time on badmouthing Operators and crew but never say positive things.
I know of several Operators that are no longer around just because of negative rumours that where started.
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to come up for the operators but last week losing my job made me realise that having a unhappy job is allot better than having no job at all.

[fly nice]

Hence the collective name for a group of pilots is a "whinge of pilots". Did'nt they ask you that at your recent level 4 english exams?:}

[100hours]

" while there are guys and girls out there in other jobs, who work, so that they can fly for fun! "

:= := := :=

You have no idea how many of us are out there !

Think about us when you read about the oil price at $124 per barrel ... it is making flying for fun less and less affordable ... and soon some of us will have to give up flying for good ... keep that in mind next time you complain about your job ... when we have to give up our passion to fly (and ANY pilot out there - personal or professional - can imagine just how horrible that must feel)

[Malagant]

The oil price has gone up before and it will again..and many people are affected by it in a worse way than in aviation..many people lose their jobs everyday but as oil prices go up salaries will go up and people will still drive Mercs etc..and correct me if I am wrong but NW didn`t go bust cause of the oil price, their trouble started a long time ago and the engine detaching itself from the wing and the subsequent grounding of the fleet by CAA and a few other factors caused the demise of NW...but to get back to aviation, every pilot loves to get in his/her seat and when the doors close they do what they love..Fly!! BUT when he/she gets on the ground and the pay is late or S&Ts are not paid and managment makes a descision that impacts negatively on the airline or charter company it is felt by everybody and the stark reality must be faced that it is a BUSINESS, wether owned by investors or a corporation or just one person, it is a business, and just like every other business the object is to make MONEY..and however hard we worked to get where we are in our aviation careers, and regardless of how qualified we are, we are tools in that business and just like in any other business, people bitch about management, money, etc..SO in retrospect pilots are people and at the end of the day their bitchin is no less or no more than anywhere else!

[Propellerpilot]

I think it is a human disease to moan - it is the same in every field. Many of us probably have difficulty voicing our personal grudges openly for many reasons - that is why an anonymous forum is an ideal place to voice opinions-sort of like a phychologists couch:8.

Lynessa - the sad reality in many areas of life is, that there are so many selfish pokerfaces out there, who suffer professional jealousy and other symptoms of human condition or complexion, that they would backstab anyone standing in their way and actually contribute to a loss in possible economic productivity. If we would all work together better in a positive sense, that would be a much better environment to be in also in creating more productivity and motivation, but the formentioned basically make it impossible, putting the rest open for exploitation in the worst case. This is not just an aviation thing but a condition that exists throughout. When the individuals are suffering, there is always a need for people to stand together - if things are going well, we tend to forget about others. If one would always work together towards a win-win situation, that would be wonderful. The moaning and whining would probably still not disappear - it was proven that the post war generations of Germany, who created themselves all the wealth someone would wish for a comfortable life, were the people who statistically moaned and complained most - even if it's petty about the weather which would always be either too hot or too cold... :ugh:

[Avpsych]

Hi All,
It has been great to see all of your responses. I understand that pilots do often get abused and that there is often friction between management and Flight crew.

Being a pilot is not the glamorous job it is often perceived to be and it does have it's fair share of problems. We should all expect to face problems in any job that we decide to do. At the end of the day I guess it all boils down to job satisfaction. Are the problems really so great that they reduce your job satisfaction to a degree that you no longer want to fly? Flying as a job can be just that - a job! It can take the fun out of flying. Maybe it is better to do another job (also with its fair share of problems) that can make enough money so that you could fly for pleasure where you want, when you want. If you had this choice, what would you do?

[south coast]

Flying is just a job like any other job and therefore has it's good and bad points.

It is human nature to complain about the bad and not to mention the good.

As for two types, people who live to fly and people who fly to live, I fall into the second and find people who fall into the first category naive, shallow and rather dull.

They tend to be people who have never done anything else in life, ie. their father who is an airline pilot paid for them to learn to fly at the age of eighteen and they are where they are.

Being a pilot is still a job, the one thing I will say, as with other jobs it is not likely you can just drift your way into it, so you do tend to find that most people who fly do it because they enjoy it.

I like it for the lifestyle it affords me, but it is not my passion.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Oh goodie....:rolleyes: Pop psychology, just what we need.:zzz:

Well said SC. It's a job like any other. The passion rapidly rubs thin after a while. The number of shiny, bright eyed folks disillusioned after a few years in the game is a joke. Passion is all very well but it doesn't mean a rancid rodent's rectum to the bank manager at the end of the month when the bills are due.

[100hours]

South Coast wrote:
"As for two types, people who live to fly and people who fly to live, I fall into the second and find people who fall into the first category naive, shallow and rather dull."

So in which of these 2 categories would you say does someone fall who flies with a PPL for fun ?

[Avpsych]

Good question 100hrs. I hope it's not the "naive, shallow and rather dull." type!;)

[Lifes-a-Beech]

"So in which of these 2 categories would you say does someone fall who flies with a PPL for fun ?"

Mmm...lets think about this...

"As for two types, people who live to fly and people who fly to live" - so if I understand this correctly - if you fly for fun, you don't fly to live, which puts you into the "live to fly" category?!?!?!

[negus]

Would love to be flying for a living after spending so much time and money saving to fly! :rolleyes:

[south coast]

For those who fly for fun, ie a PPL, you dont tend to fall in to the 'live to fly' category as I see it because you have some other string to your bow which allows you to pay for your flying.

I said, 'They tend to be people who have never done anything else in life'.

[VortexGen300]

What on earth is a happy pilot?

I am sad to say but I have still to meet one.

They are always looking at bigger and faster aircraft to fly - always looking at new ways to show their skill (or lack of it) in an aircraft.

One thing we need to realise is that a pilot that is not unhappy is not necessarily a happy one - You can remove all the issues that might make a pilot unhappy - and he will still not be a happy chappy.

The unhappy breed of pilots will be with us as long as pilots are not all flying the fastest and the biggest jet?

Stirred?
VG300

[100hours]

" What on earth is a happy pilot? I am sad to say but I have still to meet one. "

I try to visit the cockpit of every flight I am on when the flight has landed and passengers disembark. Let me say that 95% of the time I speak to guys up font they are all extremely passionate about what they do. You can see the pride and enjoyment on their faces. They always tell me they love what they do and would do nothing else. This ranges from First Officers with 1 year experience to International captains with 35 years experience. I really can understand in no job you will always be happy all the time - I can understannd like with any other job you have your **** days or weeks. And I understand you can (and probably mostly will be) overworked. I also understand that from the outside it looks like a perfect job (grass always looks greener on the other side).

But come on guys, do you really think you will be happier sitting in some **** office, every day looking at a PC screen and not seeing the outside world? Coping with Affirmative Action and Employment Equity and other office politics. Having to be content flying nothing more (ever) than a Cessna 172 for 60 minutes once a week? Having to get permission from the wife, kids and dog to go on a cross country flight which will take you away from home for the whole Saturday. Having to get "permission" (consent?) to spend 40% - 50% of your monhly budget on flying lessons. Having sleepless nights because the sky-high oil price is threatening to destroy your passion in life?

I guess what it comes down to is being passionate (not neccesarily happy) about your job. Surely you got involved in aviation because you love to fly?

[contraxdog]

South Coast Touche Mate!
It was about18 years ago that I got the chance of trying my hand at the flying thing. I was scared shirtless, at first(you see I didnt come from an aviaton background, family or connections), then gradually learnt that the trottle lever on a Cherokee works the oppisite way than that of a Massey Fergeson Tractor. ( I learned to drive that when I was 4, had to stand on the gearbox to see wher I was going. It took me a looooong time to go solo. My instuctor( a pmimply faced 19year old boy) got tired of screaming at me:ROUND OUT! NOW! but forgave me when I bought him a beer afterward. Somewhere after that I remember thinking to my self flying back from the GF East on one of those beautiful ECape days, " I cant believe people are paying someone else to do this for them"( I learned why in the last 18 years)
Since then I flew into some of the crappiest places, some of the most beautiful on this earth. Being shot at, being laughed at, being envied and various other verbs.
I am damn good at what I do, it is what I know best, but I do it because it earns me a damn good living.
I am Like my old friend SC of the opinion that I do it for a living because if I did it for pleasure I would have had to pay for it dearly every time I did it.
I cannot think of anything I would rather do for a living, apart from drinking Captain Morgan and Coke in a beachbar in Vamizi in the heat of the day. Flying has cost me a farm, a marriage, and two damn fine women that couldnt stand me being away so much. If I had to do it all over I dont think I would do it again, but most probably choose to make all the mistakes again.
My folks told me on matriculating to become a doctor. lawyer, banker or something, and I did just that. I became a "something". My brother became the lawer and sis became the banker.
When will a pilot be happy? When he grows up and becomes what he wanted to be. If you dont like what you do, then move!
If you want to be a pilot, decide what type of pilot. Try your hand at most of the types of flying. Take all things into account, even the crap pay. Choose one. Then decide to have a life. Make your desicions a round your life, not around your career. Your career is only a part of your life, your life is not part of your career.
If you can do that, people around you will tell you, "I want what you have!"
I also want to be happy!
They will mistake the fulfillment you have, with "having a good job" and all kinds of other things, but you will know that those things only come to you, when you have made up your mind where you want to be.
Thats why you are happy.
And then you can sit back and bitch in peace, with your tongue in the cheek because that is as part of being a pilot as flying is.

[south coast]

Well said my fine bone-headed friend.

How the devil are you, where the devil are you?

[contraxdog]

South Coast,

My dear friend, and fellow officer and gentleman!
I am still committing aviation in the true sence of the word. If not, I pay my tributes to a Swashbuckle buccaneer drowned in syrope of Cola, while passing my time with a roll in the hay in the arms a sweet young blonde wench that goes by the name of Lola. (Me thinks the name is a nome de Guerre, but I allow her her indulgence!)

CXD