NC Aircrew Crewman

[TommyGun]

Hi Everyone

I'm new to this forum. I'm looking into joining the RAF as NC Aircrew. I was in CCF (RAF) at school and then joined TA (RE), went to uni and transferred to UOTC and now I have graduated, I am back in the TA. I also have a PPL.

There is not a lot of literature on the role of WSOps. Is there any NC Aircrew out there, people who have done selection, or who are doing their training now, who can give me some top tips and handy hints?

I have been to my initial 'chat' at the AFCO, and I have got the second interview in mid-June. What could I expect as life as a Crewman?

What other aircraft to crewmen fly in (apart from Hercs, C-17, Merlin, Chinook, Puma, Sea King and Twin Squirrel) and what would their role be on these aircraft?

In interview should I have one aircraft type in mind, or should I have all of them in mind?

(I was told at AFCO to steer clear of the RAF website and use PPRuNe)

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Tommy

[GalleyTeapot]

Call the NCA Liasion Team at RAF Cranwell they will answer all your questions. Or if you are anywhere near Manchester city center for the next few days I can PM you with details of an event that may interest you.

[TommyGun]

GT, thanks for the advise re NCA Liason Team at Cranwell. As for near Manchester, I live in Jersey, so the aforementioned 'event' needs to be very worthwhile for me to pay to get up there!

1.4G, thanks to you too. Like I said, I'm new and was advised to do this. I'll check out e-goat too. Just a quick one, I know who the rockapes are, but who are 'stackers'?

Cheers to you both!

[c-bert]

but who are 'stackers'?

Blanket Stackers - Supply bods.

[Wader2]

1.4G sounds a bit bitter. Hi Everyone

I'm looking into joining the RAF as NC Aircrew. I was in CCF (RAF) at school and then joined TA (RE), went to uni and transferred to UOTC and now I have graduated, I am back in the TA. I also have a PPL.

With this CV we must ask why you want to be NCA? Curious too why the AFCO has not asked that question, may be they did but provided you have your essential 5 GCSE and 2 A-levels a commission open to you. NCA is not an easy or easier option.There is not a lot of literature on the role of WSOps. Is there any NC Aircrew out there, people who have done selection, or who are doing their training now, who can give me some top tips and handy hints?

Plenty and unlike what 1.4G said they can be found here too.What other aircraft to crewmen fly in (apart from Hercs, C-17, Merlin, Chinook, Puma, Sea King and Twin Squirrel) and what would their role be on these aircraft?
I don't think Twin Squirrel would count. the obvious one you missed out is Nimrod and also E3 and possibly Sentiel. Again, with your CV, I suspect that the last job you will get would be in the loadmaster/door gunner role.In interview should I have one aircraft type in mind, or should I have all of them in mind?
Any and all.
(I was told at AFCO to steer clear of the RAF website and use PPRuNe)
Contrary to what 1.4G says, there are people from 55 Sqn and OASC etc that come here too.Read the OASC sticky, there are NCA snippets there too and reconsider your options.

[TommyGun]

c-bert, cheers pal...same as the Army's Royal Logistics Corps (or Really Large Corps).

Wader2, firstly thank you so much for spending the time to read my post as thoroughly as you did. I went to see the AFCO about a year ago and they said I was too old for pilot. My A-level results were modest, to say the least and I only have a ordinary degree. Also I played a little devil's advocate with the officer who interviewed me and he said that I had to make choice as to whether I want to be an officer or whether I want to fly. I made the decision to fly. With regard to Twin Squirrels, do 84Sqn in Akrotiri fly them for troop transport and SAR instead of the old Wessex? I wasn't sure whether the intelligence gatherers, early warning and reconnaissance aircrft carried Crewmen (loadmasters). Also do the VC-10s and Tristars carry them, or do Air-Engineers still exist in the tankers/transport aircraft? If I cannot get loadmaster/door-gunner, what would they offer me? I'll give the OASC snippet a read as well. Thanks again for all your input!

[airborne_artist]

At 24 you are too old (normally) to join the RAF as officer aircrew, but you could certainly apply to the Royal Navy as officer aircrew, as they have an upper age on entry of 25 and 11 months. Worth a look, and won't cost you anything to ask/apply. The RN has no direct entry for non-commissioned aircrew.

RN officer aircrew careers page
(http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.6056)

[TommyGun]

aa, not sure about life on the high sea?! no harm in asking, I suppose.

I've got mates in The Parachute Regiment and they are likely to give me grief if I join the RAF, let alone if I join the RN! Only kidding, I'll have a look.

Cheers

[airborne_artist]

Paras - pah. When you've got mates in the Womens' Auxiliary Balloon Corps, then it's time to be worried. Until then, do your own thing, and do it to the best of your ability. Good luck :ok:

[TommyGun]

hahaha! Cheers aa!
Got my heart set helicopter crewman and I'm going to do my very best to get it!

[RAFEmployee]

NC Aircrew! := If you've got a PPL etc. Why not go for pilot?
You'll get good information from E-goat as posted by 1.4G, however, this forum is not full of retired oldies, (I'm not retired but 29 isn't old (Isit? :rolleyes:)).

Anyway, check your PM's in a second. Can't say a lot publicly.

[TommyGun]

RAFE...
I'll look into it again, but I have been told I'm too old to go pilot! Cheers for the PM...I did reply. 29 isn't old, as I plan on being just as debauched when I'm 79 as I am now! cheers again!

Just a quick one...I cannot see it, but is there a post (relatively long from me) replying to c-bert and Wader2? I did reply to thank them and answered all of Wader's queries.

[TommyGun]

I feel I need to pass on some wisdom to you chaps who have been so kind in advising me today...if you ever think about leaving the armed forces to make some 'real' money in the city or offshore regions - DON'T! It is mind-numbingly dull! The grass is not greener, the milk is not sweeter! F**k I'm bored!

[TommyGun]

1.4G, why would I say that? And what inspired you type that?

[sisemen]

1.4 Ever thought of taking up undertaking??? Just thought it might suit you.

[sisemen]

Just an addendum to my last.....as I'm getting a tad angry at 1.4s posts. Tommy the RAF is supposed to be about teamwork and camaraderie. The 'old and bold' may well linger here (I'm one of them) but we each did our bit to make the RAF what it is, or should be, in the eyes of the public who we defend.

The majority of us hold to those high ideals. However, there is the odd tosser who seems to have a chip on both shoulders and this type of individual should be avoided at all costs. Listen to their opinions by all means but use good common sense and fairness in deciding whether those opinions are worth keeping.

Some people get a little bitter and twisted if their career is not going according to plan; if their boss, when writing their F6442 or 1369, says that despite the individual being reporting on believes that they are the best thing since sliced bread they actually aren't.

If you want to get a real feel for the comradeship and the true ethos and spirit of the RAF (and the other Armed Forces) then have a look at some of the pages on the "Neighbours at War" thread.

I doubt whether the likes of 1.4 would be interested in that sort of stuff because it has nothing to do with "self" and it also involved a lot of old has beens putting themselves out for others.

Rant over.:*

[TommyGun]

Cheers sisemen, I'll check out the 'neighbours' thread. It is my first day on here, so don't know everyones personalities yet. But most are very helpful.

1.4G...debauchery is term used by my peers and I to simply describe having fun, no offense was intended. It was also a reference directed at RAFEmployee to reassure him that 29 wasn't old. I posted on this forum for advice, not sledging.

[PTC REMF]

I believe the staff on 55(R) Sqn at Cranwell run an introduction day; usually the last Thursday of the month. They will be able to give you all the latest information about recruitment and training.

As to qualifications, remember that the entry requirements for NCA are a minimum; half of the Chinook crewmen on my Flight are graduates. If you've set your heart on Helo crewman then go for it , but be aware that you are recruited as a WSOp and could just as easily find yourself as a sensor operator on a fixed wing platform. :ok:

[TommyGun]

1.4G, thank you for all your helpful advice, I will bear it all in mind!

[RAFEmployee]

:) 1.4G Your just like AIDU, except he was a little funnier.

[TommyGun]

PTC, I am going to call Cranwell and 55(R)Sqn and the NCALT to get on an open day. Thanks for the top tips and handy hints, buddy!


Going to TA tonight, so better get off and iron my kit.

[camelspyyder]

Tommy, If you want to be NCA, go for it. I was raised in Jersey , ran away at 18 to join the RAF and I've been NCA ever since (27 years). As a current Instructor I can tell you that almost every student here wants to go rotary, and half of them get something else. However, since we are all now in the one trade (WSOp), they may all have opportunities to cross train further down the line.

Good luck with your application

CS

[TommyGun]

cs, thanks for those words of encouragement! I'm going for it. In fact, I am flying tonight, then hitting the gym. All good prep. You grew up in Jersey...then you'll be aware it's Liberation Day tomorrow, so most have the day off, I'll be on parade with the TA. Going flying on Saturday as well - taking 2 officers and a WO2 to Alderney for an exercise recce. Haha, my first experience of 'military' flying.

[Al R]

Tommy,

Good luck with the parade, and good on yer. Enjoy the flight too.

PS: If you still 'iron' kit, then the RAF is just the baby for you (environmentally astute too - RAF irons are hardly ever cursed with the demands of leccy).

Real men of course, 'press'. :ok:

Bon chance.

[TommyGun]

Cheers AI R. I'll practice 'pressing'!

Merci beaucoup pour la bon chance (or something along those lines, pace que ma francais est tres mal)

[TommyGun]

Thanks very much for all your help everyone. I have taken on board all your advice. If I have anymore questions, I'll be sure to post them here.

[TommyGun]

It's my birthday 4 weeks today and my girlfriend and I are thinking about going over to the Biggin Hill airshow (7 - 8 June). Are there any helicopter crews going to be there for a chat about about a career as NCA?

By the way, just for your information and entertainment, chaps...I was taxiing at Jersey Airport for a flight to keep my hours up on Saturday, at holding point Delta for runway 09 doing my pre take off checks, and a twin private aircraft came into land and it's starboard lading gear buckled on touchdown. The aeroplane went over the runway with it's right wing scraping on the deck. I watched in amazement with my jaw almost on the pedals! Needless to say I cancelled my flight plan. Luckily there was no injuries! Has anyone else witnessed or been in a crash that up-close-and-personal before? Anyway, the day was not totally lost as I took my dad up in a 1944 Dakota DC-3 in the afternoon when the runway re-opened (as a passenger, not crew)...awesome machine.

[MightyGem]

With regard to Twin Squirrels, do 84Sqn in Akrotiri fly them for troop transport and SAR instead of the old Wessex?
No, that would be the Bell 412 or Griffin (http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/griffinht1.cfm).

[TommyGun]

Cheers MG!

[articbear]

any chance anybody knows the military number for the NCA liason team at cranwell?
and it it for all NCA , as im interested in WSO crewman.

thanks.

[articbear]

Any idea how i might get myself on one of those open days at 55(R) sqn, as im currently already employed by the Marines and seriously considering transfering to the RAF, for a new career as a WSO crewman.

cheers guys!

[airborne_artist]

01400 261201 and ask for 55(R)

[TommyGun]

AB,
I sent you a Private Message with the NCA LT number on it.

[TheWizard]

It's my birthday 4 weeks today and my girlfriend and I are thinking about going over to the Biggin Hill airshow (7 - 8 June). Are there any helicopter crews going to be there for a chat about about a career as NCA?


All being well, there will be a Merlin and crew at the centre of the RAF Recruiting Village. Please come over and have a chat.:ok:

Shameless plug: http://www.teammerlin.airshows.co.uk/calendar.html

[TommyGun]

Thanks Wizard...I'll pop in and ask a few questions.

Incidently, was the Merlin named after a 'Pidgeon Hawk' rather than 'The Wizard'?

Thanks for the advice...I'm going to check out the 'shameless' link now.

[Cmn2644]

Further to all of the above, dont be afraid to go and visit the Sqns themselves even though it is not always encouraged by the AFCO. Quite a few blokes visited 60 Sqn at Shawbury to have a look at the rotary crewman training and some also come to Odiham to have a look at the mighty wokka and speak to the crewman fresh off the OCF. Good luck :ok:

[TommyGun]

Thanks Cmn, I'll look into into it.

[timrob1]

TommyGun, I've been meaning to post basically the exact same thread for a few weeks now.

I too would have like to go for pilot, but with my lack of Alevels as I briefly(stupidly) joined the RAF straight out of school means that now at the age of 21, by the time it would take me to do my Alevels and applied the chances of me starting flight training before my 24th birthday nevermind getting selected are slim to none .. So WSOp is my next choice.

I've already been down to 55(R) for the NCA Brief/FAM Visit and would highly recommend it, although the week I attended we didnt get a visiting crew and it was merely death by powerpoint for most of the day. But what can I say, it was still worth the trip and was a eye opener indeed.

My only advice would be, you need to prepare yourself for disappointment as PTC REMF and camelspyyder said, alot of people dont get what they intially wanted. But later on we got talking to some trainee's who didnt get streamed into their first choice. Most of them said that once they got over the intial disappointment they were happy in their new roles. And in all honesty, I went to Cranwell with my heart set on RW Crewman but to be honest, after seeing more about what the rest of the WSOp's (ex- Linguist) do, I dont think I'd mind not getting my first choice. The rest all are all very interesting equally as challenging.

But my own problem is I've been indecisive ever since and I would really like have a chat with some serving WSOp's in the hope it might help me settle my self and stick to a decision.

[TommyGun]

timrob, try to get yourself down to Biggin Hill on 7/8 June to talk to the Merlin crew, that's what I'm going to do!

[RAFEmployee]

I'm sure a tour would be a good idea, I'd give you a tour.
Just ask:ok:

[TommyGun]

Do NCA Crewman only fly on Hercules, C-17 Globemasters and Helicopters...or do they crew VC-10, TriStar, any Nimrods (R1/MR2), Sentinel and/or Sentry?

[TommyGun]

Cheers 1.4G even if you are a facetious so-and-so!

[TommyGun]

2nd interview (filter interview) at AFCO done...now awaiting the dreaded OASC!

Big thank you to Crewman Dave on the Merlin static display at Biggin Hill Airshow. Can't wait to get your job!

[rogerk]

Maybe you could do better flying "Army" ??
Don't know the current situation re "Non Officer Pilots"
But IMO with your CV you could do better than "crewman"
Which ever way you do it remember one thing -

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return"

Leonardo da Vinci

:ok::ok:

[airborne_artist]

RogerK - I think TG has been round this loop already, but OASC may well sort that out. More than one NCA applicant has gone to OASC and come out with a pilot slot on IOT.

[animo et fide]

Tommy


If you get through the system quickly, I'll let you have my job!!

[TommyGun]

cheers animo,
I'd love that job! Heart set on Chinook or Merlin. (why do you want to give up that job?)

aa,
still too old to do the pilot thing, although I have recently found out that I can enter and train as NCA, do at least one tour, then there is an option to go pilot after that, as they raise the age of pilot to 32 once you are qualified aircrew. So it's nice to know that there is an option/slim chance.

roger,
I have looked into the army option, but I am in TA at the moment and I am fully aware of the MoD legislation regarding the Army 'digging in' and the RAF 'checking in'! And Leonardo da Vinci was a rather inspirational chap!

[TommyGun]

Somebody needs a sense of humour...:O

[TommyGun]

The manager of a large office noticed a new man one day and told him to come into his office. "What is your name?" was the first thing the manager asked the new guy.

"John," the new guy replied.

The manager scowled, "Look, I don't know what kind of a mamby-pamby place you worked at before, but I don't call anyone by their first name. It breeds familiarity and that leads to a breakdown in authority. I refer to my employees by their last name only - Smith, Jones, Baker - that's all. I am to be referred to only as Mr. Robertson. Now that we got that straight, what is your last name?"

The new guy sighed and said, "Darling. My name is John Darling."

"Okay, John, the next thing I want to tell you is..."

I have a massive sense of humour...pretty bad jokes, nevertheless a massive sense of humour. Can't wait to check into Hotel Halton...another joke by the way!

[airborne_artist]

Top Banter, TG. AIDU, work your way out of that :ok:

[Low Ball]

TG
Remember the motto of NCA Aircrewmen on SH:

"Bread is the staff of life for NCA Aircrewmen on SH. The life of NCA Aircrewmen on SH is one long loaf".

LB

[TommyGun]

cheers aa...
funny how 1.4G has suddenly vanished and we have another chippy personalty to replace him almost immediately (I'm sure that will inspire response, so AIDU...I'm terribly sorry if I've caused offense - no need to reply).

Edit: cheers LB, I'll bear that in mind.

[Wessex Boy]

"Bread is the staff of life for NCA Aircrewmen on SH. The life of NCA Aircrewmen on SH is one long loaf".


Just don't get caught by your CO mixing a Kitkat and Tuna in a sandwich......:uhoh:

Although I did win the Crewman's 'Most ingredients in a Sandwich' contest on 2 FTS with 15 :}

[TommyGun]

'Most ingredients in a Sandwich'

Sounds both disgusting and intriguing, WB...what the hell, I'm game!

[animo et fide]

Tommy


I've been living like this for too long and been shot at one too many times!!

[TommyGun]

Sound of desperation?...I think someone may be craving attention...

Sell myself short?...I never sell myself short.

Another useful and inspirational post by 1.4G! :ugh::D

My old grandad used to say, 'Tom, how do fish get caught?'...'They BITE, so don't bite and you won't get caught'.

Why don't you go and play with AIDU, you 2 would really hit it off ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Tommy, toasted peanut butter and marmalade with pilchards was a favourite.

See PM.

[TommyGun]

1.4G, I guess you didn't take my old grandad's advice...so, would that make you a dyslexic dwarf - not big and not clever?! Let's see if the fish will get caught again...

Flt Lt Mac, that is the first I have heard of the periodic discontinuation of the WSOp EW and ACO roles. Thanks for the heads up. As FW, I think I wouldn't mind Hercs, but I will be bleating 'Rotary' from the start of training, if I get in. Thanks again!

[cheesedoff]

Best of luck to you Tommy Gun. Just give it your best shot.

[TommyGun]

Thanks very much Cheesedoff.

[leftrightleft]

Flt Lt Mac, do you know how long this period will be? I'm hoping to go down the WSOp Cmn (FW) route, so it sounds like good news!

[minigundiplomat]

Hopefully not as long as this thread.

MGD

[TommyGun]

keeping the thread alive, MGD!:p

[minigundiplomat]

I look forward to meeting you.

MGD

[Rude C'man]

Flt Lt Mac - good point , indeed the Nimrods are winding down and E3 and ISTAR are fully loaded.

TG you have a PM.

[TommyGun]

Flt Lt Mac, is this a pre OASC tester?

According to the RAF website, the C-130K operates with a crew of 6, therefore I will assume you are referring to the C-130J (I had to put that in in case you trying to trip me).

This is what I believe the role to entail, as I have understood it from the literature, media and people I have read, watched and listened to:

A WSOp on C-130 is responsible for the majority of what happens behind the flight deck. Specifically, the WSOp is responsible for the loading, safety and unloading of any cargo* or airdrop**.

*freight, supplies, vehicles, passengers, troops
**all of the above leaving the aircraft before the aircraft lands

Also the WSOp can assist the pilots in the aircraft's pre start-up checks and ensure the Hercules is safe, secure and locked after shut-down.

During the flight the WSOp will be available to assist the flight deck where needed, for example, comms.

I understand a strategic role as being proactive, therefore planned in advance of the flight. For example; a flight from Kandahar to Bastion to resupply ground troops with supplies such as food and ammunition. The WSOp will be able to plan how much food and ammunition is needed and how much the C-130 able to take. He will be responsible for the safe handling of the supplies.

I understand tactical missions as reactive, therefore an event will directly influence an immediate response. For example; During the flight back to Kandahar, the flight deck receive a transmission that they are needed urgently on the ground for a casualty evacuation. This will cause the WSOp to think on his feet and re-configure the cabin to accommodate casualties and medical team.

How did I do? I hope I passed...

[RAFEmployee]

Sounds good, In a nutshell.

[R 21]

Ohhhhhh

Hand bags out !! LOL :)

[TommyGun]

PerAdUK...some of the advice people have given me may help you :ok: