Bankstown Base - its all good

[riadbec]

The Vinnies boys are getting it on in public, The classic is making a triumphant return, Another army recruit (thankyou jesus), cool hand - where are you? Surf is up (thankyou Raymond), Carebears making the news - its all good

[ApocalypseThen]

Fool? From someone who doesn`t know the difference between `bored` and `board` ?
An interpretation of Riadabec`s cryptic post:
"The Vinnie Boys....." = The NGO charities are in high profile.
"The Classic....." = The CHC 412`s are frequently unserviceable .
"Another Army..." =Thank god for a competent rescue pilot versus a temp from CHC offshore.
"Cool hand..." = Regrets for a competent pilot who has left the job.
"Surf is up" = reference to a well publicised recent job completed by Surf Lifesaver before CHC could get off the ground.
"Carebears..." = CareFlight is also outperfoming CHC .

In the words of CHC , there are no dodgy clients, the customer is always right!

[baffler15]

Fool? From someone who doesn`t know the difference between `bored` and `board` ?

Apocalypse, you have a point there - however, nothing changes the fact that riadbec is still an annoying moron who keeps bouncing back into Rotorheads with drivel such as this thread. Come on champ, do what you've done in the past and delete all your posts, and don't hurry back this time!

Idiot.

The Baffler :ok:

[clearances]

"ApocalypseThen" Interesting interpretation but you are a little off track, perhaps you should re-calculate your drift before you end up looking worse than Raidbec...

[slats11]

Suspect that "Vinnies boys" refers to the recent public falling out between a couple of the medicos.

Meanwhile, another highly experienced pilot (with years of local knowledge and SAR experience) has left Bankstown for greener pastures elsewhere.

[lookatme]

Riadbec,

Hows the wood pile at the big brother house working for you? :ok:

It seems that with all your posts, there always seems to be a couple of common traits! The good old tall poppy syndrome and that you still live in fantasy land, thinking that by slandering chc over normal helicopter ops that they will be booted from the contract and you can get back to flying your lovely BK'S. Grow a brain, chc are finally dragging the EMS helicopter fleet into the moden era! Finally.

[slats11]

chc are finally dragging the EMS helicopter fleet into the moden era! Finally.

Not so sure of that from what I have heard.

They still don't appear to have a true EMS focus. The 139 is a good a/c. But it takes more than the right a/c. Overall, procedures and policies are more important than a/c type.

Anyway, time will tell in the end. For now, I happy enough that you are so confident.

Cheers

[folald]

:sad:Quote:
chc are finally dragging the EMS helicopter fleet into the moden era! Finally.

'Moderen era'???? There are still two B412EP's on the flight line at Bankstown and a 'classic' in Wollongong!:( How's that for state of the art?:rolleyes:

Me thinks 'lookatme' may like to look at the date. More than one year into 'the bigger, better, faster contract' and still no operational AW139's with a strong rumour of a B412 'classic' repalcing one of the EP's at B'town. 'Modern era' eh ?????

One step fwd two steps back me thinks.
This may be the fault of the either or both parties involved but you're as blind as a welders dog if you can't see that this is a mess and progress is painfully...read potentially dangerously slow. :ugh:

Rumour is that one AW139 is still basically in the delivery crate at B'town. Slow golf clap please:D

slats11 is right...... there is a long long long way to go before either party can claim EMS is the focus. 'Retrieval' services are the focus of the ASNSW and business rules are CHC's main focus.:sad:

The poor unknowing public, people in need of Emergency assistance will have to wait and god help us, maybe hope HIRT survives.:p

[bladebanger]

Folald, 139 doing training in Adelaide for the past montrh?
This a new era. And its here!
I think you might have jumped the gun a little.

Banger

[clearances]

Banger,

Folald is not the first and wont be the last to "jump the gun"

It seems it's a new concept for some in NSW to just go about the job and not feel the need to tell every tom dick and harry how good you are at it.

Thumbs up to CHC for doing just that :ok:

Clearances

[Austin Pepper]

"It seems it's a new concept for some in NSW to just go about the job and not feel the need to tell every tom dick and harry how good you are at it."

Er, maybe that's because they are already months overdue in delivering new aircraft for a contract which they won partly based on their claimed ability to deliver these aircraft sooner than their competitors (who also tendered using EC145 and AW139). The contract is on the net. AW139 for Wollongong in Feb 2008, and AW139 in Sydney in June 2008.

[lookatme]

Folald and Slats11
Like all new A/C the wants of haveing it on time from the manufatura always shift! If know the industry as well as you portray you do then you would know! Or sorry is it because you have never had a new A/C before SORRY MATEies!:p
As for the 412's they are an intrum machine, the client needed something better than a heli that could only carry fuel or pax ! And for that classic you said was on its way to bankstown, well you in the know would know that it was done by the client! You guy's really have your fingers on the pulse! Got any more heli rego's in your plane spotting books from behind the fence?

Riadbec
How's flying the BK compare to flying the 412 in bankstown?:ooh:

[slats11]

Lookatme, you appear to be focused on the a/c to the exclusion of just about everything else.

Yes the 139 is a good machine - although it does have some limitations with respect to EMS work.

Yes 6 months slippage is not uncommon, and is possibly not that important in the context of a 7 year contract.

The real question remains, how are you going to operate the 139 when you finally get your hands on them?

If you are not going to make full use of the EEC, if you are going to persist with RWY operations, if you are going to have to deal with operational limitations with respect to taxiways, if you are not going to integrate the front and back seat crew ..... then we all know that the yellow 117 on the coast will need to stick around.

[Breeze 29900]

You may have to wait a little longer for the 2nd 139 to be in service due the airframe being dropped off a fork lift at Mascot whilst unloading. The impact was sufficent to trigger the EPIRB. Who knows how long it will take to find all the hidden damage or will it be sent back to the factory?

Wait and see..

[topendtorque]

2nd 139 to be in service due the airframe being dropped off a fork lift at Mascot whilst unloading. The impact was sufficent to trigger the EPIRB.


That's interesting. Where would it be coming from that it would have an EPIRB already mounted just waiting for a bag snatcher to drop it?

Or, are you guys really off in fantasy land, like your lingo.

[Friendly Black Dog]

The activation of an EPIRB in a brand new heli (which was in a freight container) at YSSY is fact (I know the guy who switched it off for AUSSAR).

How it was activated is anyones guess.:ok:

FBD

[topendtorque]

Where would it be coming from that it would have an EPIRB already mounted


And armed, even before an engineer has checked and done the usual imports and serviceability checks to put it on the flight line??

Which country did this particular A/C come from?

Would it be a country that would even have a requirement to carry an EPIRB, let alone have them armed in the packing crates before they are shipped???? Give us a break guys.:ugh::ugh::{

[RVDT]

tet,

I think you should really get out more often.

Try Italy and then you might understand the circumstances.

On this occasion the EPIRB was obviously not turned "OFF" which is something that is very rarely done.

On the other hand, everything was sweet until some ******** in Australia dropped the aircraft.

Who is the bigger **** - your call!

[papa68]

Gents,

... and here I was thinking the off-shore pilots ranted and raved about some pretty trivial stuff but wow, you guys have cornered the market!

I thought this thread was about ascertaining the success (or otherwise) of the CHC contract. How exactly did it degenerate into a slanging match over dropping acft during shipment and ELT's going off?

More to the point, are there actually people out there who are attributing these incidents to CHC (or at least insinuating as much) and therefore deducing that as a result, they are incapable of introducing a new type / fulfilling their EMS responsibilities?

It's obvious that some on this forum are still v bitter (twisted?) over the whole shake up there in Sydney. I have no doubt that the transition has been difficult and will continue to be. But how about we keep the rhetoric within the bounds of possiblity rather than spruiking all this conspiracy stuff.

P68:O

[topendtorque]

On this occasion the EPIRB was obviously not turned "OFF" which is something that is very rarely done.

On the other hand, everything was sweet until some ******** in Australia dropped the aircraft.

Who is the bigger **** - your call!

My call is simply answered by dear old PAP68 as below.

But how about we keep the rhetoric within the bounds of possiblity rather than spruiking all this conspiracy stuff.


It sounds very much to me as though someone is simply trying to instigate by devious means a report of a dropped A/C incident to delay the commercial practice of a successful tenderer. There is a simple way of doing that. Write out a report to the relevant authority, sign it and send it. Or, shut up.

You could easily verify your claim by copying it onto this forum, not necessarily with your signature.

Next thing you'll be telling us that the manufacturers of those magnificient marques (maserati and the like) that originate from the same country that you mention, are dispatched without engine sump plugs, into shipping crates.

Oh and just especially for rivet divet, I've been out and about in this game for long enough, to learn just a tad, thank you.
tet

[RVDT]

tet,

Personally I couldn't give a rats about what is or isn't happening at Bankstown or with CHC.

The post was in response to the "holier than thou" comments.

[outside looking in]

Well, well, well, it's very interesting to see those that got the bullet coming out to attack CHC over procedures. At least CHC have procedures! And banging on about Westpac (WHO?) getting to ONE job quicker (just happened to be next door, big deal). CHC have better crews, better procedures and far better aircraft (at least the 412's are new not like the clapped out 117's) and the 139's are here and will be on line in a matter of days, years before our 'good at marketing and not much else' friends at Careflight or Westpac could have got them! Those in the know will know that CHC just had their annual contract review and the client is very, very happy, with the big Kahuna stating that, "CHC are LIGHTYEARS ahead of Careflight and Westpac". The defense rests.

[Class Charlie]

Outside looking in, can I borrow your rose coloured glasses when you are finished with them?

[outside looking in]

Charli, I'm sure you and most of the other CHC bashers on this thread have some of your own.:ugh:

[PPRuNeUser0212]

new 412's???? me thinks the paint job would be the newest thing about them. And when Class Charlie is finished with glasses can I borrow them too.

[Class Charlie]

LHS,

I doubt we will get them off the other guy!!!!! Seems like he needs them

[outside looking in]

Newer and better at the job and better maintained that 117's were or will ever be (can't afford 412's anymore, chook raffle's not bringing in enough, trade them in on sh1tbox 117's, but don't look at what we owe on them loyal followers). Get used to it you fools, CHC have won the contract and the client is very happy, even if the bone head union boys are not (So 5 minutes ago those lads). And what's the worse that can happen? Well trained crews flying the newest machines with Careflight and Westpac mincing around at the edges where they belong. The view is good, in fact it's rosy :)

[topendtorque]

"holier than thou"


if that's the way you interpreted it I am sorry, no intention meant.

however, between us it looks like we have destroyed another urban myth in the making too bad.

BTW, neither could I give a flying turnout in a thunderstorm about them, they are big enough and ugly enough to look after theirself's?

And they are - obviously - Veeerrry smart, just listen to 'em.

I just wanted to jump on the dribble.
cheers tet

[helo1]

Sounds like to me quite a few of you have gone for jobs with CHC and have been knocked back.
So the next best thing to do is to put SH1T on them

[topendtorque]

H1
a most significant part of the OZ culture,
is;
cut the tall poppy.

maybe there is a fair bit of that there?
tet

[GAGS]

Outside looking In.

Ha Ha Ha..The Defence rests…..Ha Ha Ha. Why the defence you won the contract be gracious in victory.

If that diatribe you are spruking is your defence then they aren’t resting they have left the building. Now lets face it there is always going to be bad blood. But it certainly looks like the Vinnies boys have moved on. Contracts are won and lost all the time. Didn’t CHC lose the Woodside contract and what about the Adelaide contract. At least Careflight and Westpac lost to a global player.

Careflight and Westpac have procedures as well , you would be pretty dumb to think otherwise. Just because they are different doesn’t make them worse or better for that matter. The vinnies boys procedures allow them to be off the ground in 2-3 minutes.( I have heard that the ambo machine needs a calender to measure response times) From what I have heard some of the CHC boys tour to Sydney so they have to have procedures that cater for the crew that come in and don’t know Sydney. CHC can mitigate risk by proceduralising the operation. Sure it’s safe but it is definitely slower. Lets face it the Vinnies boys have been flying EMS in Sydney for years with the same crews so the local knowledge is right up there, they can do things quicker while still maintaining safety.

One job quicker….if you tallied all the jobs that Careflight and Westpac had arrived on scene prior to the Ambo machine it would be in the 20’s.Only one made the paper.

Better Crews..how do you justify this one? Do you find them more attractive (if so that’s ok but to slag off the other crews is not right)

The newest machines???? Careflight have a power ,last time looked this was fairly new.Just remember that if the Ambos had been paying the vinnies boys the same money as CHC then there would be no need for chook raffles and they would have kept the 412.The client got what it paid for. Besides that if the BK is so bad why are CHC buying 145’s.

Far better aircraft. The 412 EP is the latest evolution of the 412.Apart from minor upgrades the technology is as old as the Bk 117.Its like building a brand new EH Holden. The 139 will be on line in a matter of days, how many days 30, 60, 120, 365 how many days. Oh yeh how many days till the 145?Cause the client wants them!!!!!

Yep I agree that CHC could get the machines quicker than anyone else could, this is global buying power. You are stating the obvious. But I doubt it would be years.

Now if you were a government employee in charge of a $28 000 000 (that’s 28 million) a year contract, would you stand up and say you weren’t happy?(I am not saying CHC are doing badly ,but the yardstick you are using is somewhat tainted)The ambos have to be happy, to say that they are light years ahead is great, but CHC have to be, they are being paid 10 times as much(which is light years more money), to deliver a slower response time.(you know golden hour and all that)

Better maintained., the engineers at all these places are experienced operators. Again not sure how you justify this one. As stated above CHC have global buying power which enables them to have almost unlimited spares, yep acknowledged. But because you hold lots of spare does not mean better maintained.

Bone head union boys..is this the ambos? Is this how CHC treat their clients. Maybe it’s indicative of the CRM procedures CHC are using. ( I know it’s not, most of the crew at CHC are professionals)

Take a long hard look at yourself.

Yep the view is rosy all right.

Ha Ha Ha The Defence Rests Ha Ha Ha:rolleyes:

[LLSRC]

Doesn't the contract state 15min day 30 min night. Isn't this the same as the times for previous operators. Are you saying that these times are regularly not being met and if so where is the evidence?

[GAGS]

Nope not saying that at all!

I am not sure but i think the vinnies boys didn't have the same response times allowed,could be wrong and if i am someone will make a song and dance.:ooh:

Just saying they on a primary its a response of minutes!!!!See HIRT

[LLSRC]

How can you compare a self tasking response time (HIRT) to that of the crews in Bankstown who have to be notified by the client. Talk about apples and oranges.

[BigMike]

15 mins response time for a primary mission(day)? Is that normal?

[LLSRC]

Ask the person who wrote the contract I guess

[slats11]

My understanding is that the interval from notification to en route would rarely be less than 15 minutes, and in fact would often be significantly longer. Is this correct?

Its pretty rare for a government to make such an expensive decision and then admit that there are problems. Of course they are going to say how happy they are.

Is there any truth in the interesting rumor currently going around that there was a recent substantial penalty paid to the customer? That doesn't sound like a happy customer to me.

[folald]

Want Apples v apples LLSRC? :ok:

Both B'town and HIRT have to be 'notified' in some way, that's by the ASNSW. :uhoh:

The 'source' of the notification is the same with both! The ASNSW.:uhoh:

So compare this......

The 'Notification' that a job's on time, to 'Skids Off' time! :eek:

Reckon B'town can compete? :E
BRING IT ON! :p

See you at the scene....ah no we won't. :O

[Turkeyslapper]

I am not too familiar with how it works in NSW however my understanding is as follows....stand to be corrected.

The CareFlight HIRT fellas monitor a computer...job comes up that fits the bill, self task and they are off.

CHC out at Bankstown....job comes in, goes to a comms operator...goes to MRU who probably F$%K around trying to decide the best course of action...decide a helo is required and then get the ball rolling.

Both organisations have their niches and advantages/ disadvantages. I have nothing to do with either but it does appear to be a case of comparing apples and oranges.

Turkey

[SuperSleuth]

In the quest to improve responsiveness the guys at Bankstown use the same '000' call monitoring process as utilised by HIRT.

The case about apples vs oranges can not be more true.

One must keep in mind that the HIRT guys are configred for one single role only, land-on primaries for severe trauma, primarily for head injuries as opposed to the mutli-task roles of the bankstown machines.

There are obviously many factors that affect responsiveness in these environs. Much has been said about the fixed wing departures from Bankstown, but at the end of the day one thing remains, the customer chose a particular service provider knowing that in all likelihood operations would be based within controlled airspace and were well informed of individual organisational procedural practices and therefore were aware of the potential implications.

Don't hassle the provider, the issues rest with the customer.

[slats11]

Don't hassle the provider, the issues rest with the customer.

Very true. ASNSW is getting exactly what it has paid a very large sum of money (approx $300 M) for. However, the implications of moving away from dedicated EMS organisations may not have been fully considered, and some are now starting to question the wisdom of this decision.

And CHC is mostly providing pretty much what it said it would provide - the two main exceptions seeem to be a lack of a backup a/c, and some months delay in the introduction of the new a/c.

The next 12 months promises to be just as interesting as the first year!

[LLSRC]

If you really want to compare apples with apples then have HIRT relocate to bankstown for a day, then locate their medical crew away from the aircraft and respond to the same call out. I bet there would be not a lot of difference, you probably still wouldn't see them at the scene though as you would have been called off and returning to log another exciting 0.2hrs. Just because you have FADEC doesn't mean you are the only operator who can get airborne in 2 mins, it's not a black art.

SLATS 11 you commented that the response time is rarely 15 mins, again I ask where is the proof. If it were as common as you say then surely some of the back seat crew with axes to grind would have leaked this in a more robust form by now.

Keep in mind that this contract encompasses more than just one base, I have heard from a reliable source (ASNSW side ) that the WOL crew recently responded to a winch primary and were airborne 5 mins from call with a hangered machine. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty expeditious to me.

As for delivery of aircarft and delays, I imagine it would be pretty hard for CHC to put new machines online when the client with all the egos involved has taken months to decide on what they want fitted in the back. I saw the first 139 flying in Aus Aviation in late Jan so it wasn't that the aircraft hadn't been delivered.

Turkeyslapper summed up the situation accurately as I understand it in his post. Good work Turkey, nice to have an unbiased post on this thread.

[helmet fire]

I venture in with trepidation wondering if it is at all possible to have a discussion around this topic given the emotive responses it seems to get. The last few posts have centred on a topic that concerns me - response times.

The Ambulance Helicopter response times ARE NOT in "competition" with HIRT, in fact I think any comparison demonstrates a misperception of the functions of each role.

I say this because a multi role helicopter is bound to complete many planning tasks AFTER activation that single specialised role (such as HIRT) is able to complete BEFORE activation. For example, HIRT knows the crew, equipment, weather, LSALT, airspace, notams, range, fuel load, patient type, patient injuries and thus medical equipment requirements, patient numbers, extraction method, access issues, location, all before activation. The multi role must plan all these same elements after activation.

The comment about HIRT trying to operate out of Bankstown exactly demonstrates the point - it cannot!

Until HIRT can respond anywhere in the State, at any hour, and do any response type (secondary, water, cliff, hoist, search, etc, etc) and in most weather types then comparisons of response times - even to the same job are not at all justified.

Continued pressure to make response times of the multi role helicopter less than or equal to a single role machine is only going to result in a reduction in flight safety, even if that is just through "perceived" pressure. The contract was written on 15 mins day, and 30 mins night for some VERY good reasons - and those times were used because CareFlight and LifeSaver had agreed over 30 years of experience that these were appropriate response times to ensure flight safety. Equally, CHC have enormous experience in multi role EMS responses and I am positive that they would defend the planning process requirements and times just as vigorously as CareFlight and LifeSaver did in the past.

There is a definable safety case in support of such times (and allowance in poor weather/unusual jobs for even longer) in multi role machines - especially when those times are then used as a "KPI" or a tool to criticise.

The advent of the Rapid Launch Trauma Co-ordinator (RLTC) is a great leap forward for the community - and something that HIRT can be proud of stimulating within the helicopter tasking system. It has dramatically reduced tasking decision times and enabled the community to access both physician level and SCAT Rescue level care much faster than was previously possible. The Ambulance Service should be congratulated for its inception and the time savings this has bought to the tasking system. Indeed the magnitude of those savings make the current quibbles over 5 or 10 minutes seem very misplaced.

We should all be happy for that community gain rather than trying to tarnish it with ignorance over the planning time lines incurred by multi role and single role helicopter responses.

PS: FADEC in the 109 does not equal faster starts.

[slats11]

If you really want to compare apples with apples then have HIRT relocate to bankstown for a day, then locate their medical crew away from the aircraft and respond to the same call out.

You must be joking. Why would HIRT do that? Why would any EMS organisation anywhere ever do that?

There doesn't seem any point dragging everyone else down to the same abysmal level.

[LLSRC]

Noticed we still haven't addressed the question of proof on response times. You wrote it after all. Maybe just stick to things you can back with fact rather than exaggerations.

[clearances]

It's great to see this thread has finally attracted some level headed, professional, educated people. There are a few on here with their blinkers so tight they are all bumping into one another.

Helmetfire you are to be applauded :D

[slats11]

I think that everyone here would agree with HelmetFire - who has a history of not saying a lot, but making a lot of sense when he does venture an opinion.

I was never the one suggesting a head to head comparison. LLSRC suggested that - read back. I merely tried to point out (perhaps not very clearly) that:
i) it was obvious that ASNSW has engineered in many operational inefficiencies. These include (but are not limited to) the separation of crew and a/c, operating out of controlled airspace, and the lack of integration of front and rear seat crew. These are all above and beyond the long-accepted safety issues and the multi-role nature of CHC operations that were all clearly articulated by HelmetFire
ii) there is no point doing any comparison as suggested by LLSRC in order to to prove what has already been proved. HIRT can activate faster. If you subject it to the same operational limitations as faced by CHC, then it will no longer be faster.

If an operator can fill a need, then that is surely for the benefit of all. If that means Westpac do water rescue, great. If HIRT can do Sydney basin trauma, then great. If HIRT starts using NVG and this adds to overall system capability to do night primaries, ....... then great. There is more than enough work to go around.

Don't forget that 80-90% of the CHC work is interhospital transfers - probably increasingly over longer distances when the 139s are available. In this context, 10 or 15 or 20 minutes additional delay responding is not a major problem if this is what is required to ensure safety.

Lets move on.

[LLSRC]

I love the figures you so regularly throw around as fact. 80 -90% of missions are secondary hospital transfer. In your dreams maybe, Just because every primary is not reported in the media doesn't make them any less real. Not only are your figures way off mark but indicative of your lack of knowledge on the subject. Maybe just post on topics you know something about, that should mean the rest of us don't hear from you here again.

[pohm1]

Maybe you should all get in a line and we'll see once and for all who can pee the highest up the wall.

This thread gets 1st prize in the "Least Likely To Contribute Anything Worthwhile To Aviation" category.

P1:zzz:

[slats11]

Settle down LLSRC. These are the figures that I have been given. If you have other data, then lets see it.

While not trying to mislead, please remember that one of the purposes of this site is to act as a privileged forum where unconfirmed information can be shared and divergent views discussed. It is fortunately not a court of law.

Give it a rest. As I said, there is more than enough work to go round.

[papa68]

A lot of what has been written in this thread has been, as suggested by pohm1, rubbish and unlike to contribute much overall to the broader community.

For off-shore types like myself who live in the Sydney area, I take a keen interest in the goings on in the Sydney EMS / Ambo scene. It is unfortunate then that some of the ramblings are so emotive, self interested and lacking in any real substance.

Some (not all) of you appear to have run with the Rumour angle at the complete expense of Professionalism and as such, threads dealing with these issues are amongst the worst on PPRuNe.:yuk:

Then comes along helmetfire...

Mate, what on earth were you thinking? Injecting all that insight in an informative, factual way that all could understand? For a moment there, I thought this guy knew something! I learnt more about the issues surrounding the area after reading his post than I have in hours of reading most of the other rubbish bandied about.:D

slats11 clearly doesn't have a clue given this little offering:


I think that everyone here would agree with HelmetFire - who has a history of not saying a lot, but making a lot of sense when he does venture an opinion.


In all my dealings with helmetfire, he's always had plenty to say but only some of it makes sense depending on how much red wine he's consumed.;)

P68:O

[Gymble]

helmetfire can I be your friend as well?

Please.

[Trojan1981]

Walking the dogs yesterday morning I saw a 139 approaching BK from the west. When I went down there at about 2pm however, it was nowhere to be seen. Has the first 139 been delivered to the BK base yet, or was it there for some other purpose? It appeared to be in CHC colors.

[trimpot]

This thread has been unusually quiet all things considered. :E Just wondering how the crews (both CHC and Ambo's) are finding the new toy? Is the 139 everything it was cracked up to be? :ok:

[newbe2009]

backing CHC helicopters they are the best so they only take the best people and for you that get knocked back well sounds like your not as good as you keep telling everyone. the 139's are great and so are the new 412ep's. and even better they are getting the new EC145's which are bigger and better than the 117's. plus they are getting two more 332L's superpumas and another S-92 for offshore rolls. so before you keep putting **** on CHC you might be out of a job looking to them for work (AGAIN) and that will just make you look like a jackarse.
so in closing GET A LIFE and stop dreaming of what you can't get!!

[Te_Kahu]

Fiesty wee pup aren't ya?

Offshore rolls! Are they like ham or chicken rolls? Hmmm, maybe crow...

[Goggle Up]

Newbe,

If you're ever out of a job in the seat mate, I reckon CHC PR will pick you up :}

I'm in EMS but don't work for CHC......clearly then I'm not one of the best! Damn it......I better stop reciting "i am the greatest" when I crank up the machine. :ugh:

If I ever forget how good you are I'll just shoot you a PM for clarification if thats alright :ok:

GU

[drop lead]

One of the more blatant troll posts I’ve seen, chances are newbe2009 is not even with CHC? Is he an Aviator? Certainly not a professional and probably not a pilot :ugh:

[Ascend Charlie]

newbe has all the makings of a pilet he doesnt believe in punctuation or speling and just dribbles on i think hell be a reely good pilet in twenty years if he grows up:bored:

[Nigd3]

Just read newbe's post and nearly wet myself laughing. If he can move his fingers as fast as I imagine him typing that tantrum post, he should be a concert class grand pianist, never mind a pilot.

Fantatstic young man, keep up the spelling and grammar lessons and then you can progress to some dead 'ard sums.

Troll, troll, troll.............with a few too many traces of puberty induced testosterone flowing around him.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Please do not ridicule me for asking - BUT WHAT EXACTLY IS A "TROLL" in this context - (aside from a large ugly cave dwelling fairytale character who eats litte children - NEWBEE watch out!!!)

[Te_Kahu]

Bogey Bogey

As described by Wikipedia. There have been one or two lurking under the PPRUNE bridge from time to time.

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

TK

[folald]

Ok everyone, lets see you down on one knee.
Bow your heads and reapeat after me.

Oh CHC,
You are so BIG,

You are all knowing,
Lead us! For we know not what we do.

Save us from those small companies and charitable organisations, with little respect for the value of shares on the stock exchange.

These infidels know not what they do.

Give us the strength to accept everything you say and to follow you blindly.

Give our Air Crewmen the strength and wisdom to accept your vision and to enjoy the 24 hour shifts.
And though regularly called in to start work, 9 hours prior to the commencement of said rostered 24 hour shifts, please forgive us our doubts in your wisdom and if you care for our welfare. :zzz:

Though you feel we are weak for at times falling asleep in the cockpit after 31 hours at work, please forgive us, for you know better than the infidel clients who want to formally report such indiscretions but rightly fear that as individuals we are likely to be struct down by the mighty CHC sword.:mad:

Thank you for our AW139 and it's limited ability to respond at night, for without your forsight we would now be moving more of the sick and injured people of NSW than we are now and the value of the tried and tested 412EP in EMS may go unrecognised.:oh:

In the name of big business, Flight Standards Adelaide and the all mighty dollar. :ugh:

In CHC's name we pray, AHMEN!

:ok:PS: On a positive note Thank God for all the hard working and committed individuals from CHC and Ambulance that show great respect for each other and value the skills, knowledge and experience of each team member, despite the challenges and frustrations of working for two large and inflexible organisations not to mention within 'the contract'.

Long live small operational TEAMS and their commitment to get the job done safely and in a timely manner. You guys rock!:D

NB: CHC disciples I await your predictably holier than thou response.

[topendtorque]

AHMEN!


FYI, there is a Federally funded program mooted for literacy and numeracy to educate those in the so called disadvantaged zones. I respectfully suggest that you enlist and your CHC cohorts if they are as talented as you. (2 Billion dollars, there should be enough for elementary spelling for some)

Whether you are a dinky di or not, I know not, however you should note the engine of our democracy and economy is small business, as is the case of pretty much most nationalities represented on these forums.

Long live the freelance entrepeneur!:ok:

But then, did you mention Adelaide? We had another illustrious but misfit character from down there that we buried a while back.
cheers TET.

[outside looking in]

Oh folald, it must have really hurt when CHC knocked you back :(

Funny that the only 412EP in the state, that is not operated by CHC, is lying in a hanger in Newcastle licking it's wounds and lucky to be alive :ouch:

The 139 has a limited ability to respond at night????? That's a new one. First the 412's were to old and now the 139's are no good either. Hopefully the NVG's will help with that night stuff, luckily they are already compatible ;) Is your 412 compatible? All you have to do on the CHC 139 is flick the switch and it goes all green (a bit like you funnily enough), really neat :ok:

Hope that's a holier-that-thou enough response for you :E

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ....

Obviously I've missed something important ...... just why are the 139s not suitable for night operations?


:confused:

[Curious2]

Why do we keep revisiting this?

If you have actual points to make about the 139 then make them. The fact that there is no media attention and no other stories coming from this base except for the occasional post here it must be going ok. I would have thought that Careflight would have said something more if things weren't right there.

As for the crewman predicament, god bless them all, but while they continue to work said conditions they are creating a rod for their own back and no-one can help them. If they fall asleep on shift they have left themselves very liable. Get some unity and stand up together and demand a change to the roster if you are concerned. Stop complaining and stop working it or nothing will change.:=

[piswit]

Outside

CHC are the only 412EP operator in NSW. Newcastle operate an 412SP and I believe it's operational. Someone warn the Koala's.:eek:

C2

I heard that the 139 isn't being used for night Primarys because of the nightsun position isn't night ideal for night out landings and that it's limit 5 deg slope.

Bet the crew would like an aircon for summer!

[spinwing]

Mmmmmm ...


......"and that it's limit 5 deg slope."


I think you will find the 139 slope landing limitation is 10 deg. unless it still has the "Early" droop stop components fitted .... (which I very much doubt).


:E

[Carte blanche]

Slope limits are 10 degrees in all directions... that is until you fit the SX-16 nite sun.

As per RFM, having SX-16 reduces takeoff and landing slope limits to 5 degrees in all directions...

always happy to be corrected if i'm wrong

:)

[spinwing]

Mmmm....

Ok so the (slope) limitation is only degraded when the SX16 is installed.

Is that because the SX16 RFM supplement was written before the aircraft slope limits were increased and the supplement has not been revised anybody know? ... or is there amore obvious reason ... I'm not familiar with the SX16 fit ... the aircraft I fly don't have them.

Cheers


:confused:

[Carte blanche]

The nitesun is fitted to a fixed arm on the LH side of the aircraft behind the co-pilot door. The light is controllable in attitude and azimuth, but the mounting is not.

...maybe someone can explain to me too why it would be "...in all directions"???

[folald]

For the record, 'Outside looking in' you couldn't be further from reality by assuming CHC 'knocked me back'.

FYI, I'm atheist not illiterate!:ok: Not that it's anyones business.
However, there you go again...jumping to self serving (inaccurate) conclusions.:ugh:

You say "The 139 has a limited ability to respond at night?????....(and)... That's a new one". Are you really that poorly informed or just playing dumb? You must have a very poor line of sight, from where you are claiming to be 'outside looking in'.

You are wasting our time with you poorly informed posts.

If 'outside looking in' you are saying that you or anyone is beyond an incident such as that experienced by the westpac pilot recently, for the sake of your own safety and that of your colleagues, you may want to take a long hard look at yourself or else you too may be face to face with a koala before long.:uhoh:

As for NVG's as good as they are, you are over simplistic (read poorly informed yet again) in your posting. If it was as simple as flicking a switch to 'green' as you claim, they'd be using them tonight.:8

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ......

Noticed on the 139 thread ......

ANSW ....139 do not appear to have the air conditioning options fitted .....

Please tell me this is not true!

Ref: Helicopter medics in meltdown | The Daily Telegraph (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,27574,24961169-5006009,00.html)


:eek:

[mr nobody]

I'm sure if the ambulance service had of asked for air conditioning they would have got it, Maybe they need to have a stern word to there aviation advisors.

With regard to the window falling out the guys in the back are certainly not gentle on equipment from what I've heard from some, the Para's can't close the doors in flight because they have a habit of forcing them and breaking the doors.

If the heat is such a problem then it certainly needs to be fixed, its just seems strange that all the complaining comes from Bankstown, are the Wollongong crew fall like flys as well or are they just getting on with the job.

It seems that some people at bankstown just don't want this serice to work wether its beacuse of their loyalty to careflight and lifesaver, which I can understand but if your not happy move on and let others that want the service to work have a go.

[noncombatant]

Tinting the cabin windows might go a long way in reducing the impact of heat, may limit vision at night if the rear crew insists on having their dark visor down???:ugh:
Air-conditioning was an unwanted accessory acording to the client, although offered by the provider during initial talks.

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ....

Tis a pity about the air-conditioning ....

Personal experience with the 139 elsewhere has proved to me how valuable it (the a/c) really is ....

Those wonderful flat panel displays push a lot of heat into the cabin area and coupled with the massive glasshouse effect really gets the internal cabin temps up very quickly ..... very silly decision by the client .... would have thought CHC should not have let them make such a silly choice especially as this was to be a "worlds best practice" set up.

Oh well .... I don't have to put up with it ...... tough for the crews though.


:eek:

[riadbec]

The Vinnies boys - well one has gone OS and the other has a heartthrob OS
The muffin twins are misbehaving AGAIN!
The G man is fast losing favour with the troops
The Liverpudlian has arrived - and could make a difference
Rainman is no longer relying on a hollow fist
Raymond is at it again

[catseye]

The mighty B412 was picking up the sharkbite victim at Avalon. What's happened to the 139?

The Eye

[selfloadingballast]

Word on the street, CHC Global (First Reserve) want to off load all EMS and SAR contracts in Oz and concentrate efforts in off shore contracts.

Can the chook rafflers get back in?