Starling - downwind approach

[Cron]

Bit trivial I guess but seeking some input (Please keep in mind I'm a 65 hour PPL(H).

Sat in the garden today and observed a Starling do a downwind approach to neighbour's roof top TV ariel. W/V was 090 degrees and maybe 3 - 4 knots.

Yes, I have previously observed birds doing downwind approaches which always seem to result in an elegent curve into wind and then a land on, but this chap did a direct downwind approach.

His/her wings were going like rotors prior to touchdown( over a distance of about six feet) but it seemed to have maybe one knot of positive airspeed.

Immediately over the TV ariel the starling 'dropped a wing' and within the bird's own axis executed a 180 and plonked down on the ariel.

I've never seen such a 'risky' approach executed by a bird before (I spend a lot of time looking at birds - I also fly Hangliders).

Has anybody else seen this behaviour from Starlings - is this something they specialise in?

Regards

Cron

[Bernouli's what?]

Cron,
That starling....was it African or European?

[Heliringer]

Bernouli you owe me a coffee I just spat mine over my desk:D

Starlings and downwind quickstops whatever next:{

[4ftHover]

saw a pigeon do an engine off to the ground once - pretty neat to be fair. :8

[WylieCoyote]

I think you'll find that if you take into consideration the average airspeed velocity of an unladened Starling be that African or the much smaller Europeon variety the manouver that was described was well within the flight envelope of that type/species.:)

[cats_five]

Dunno about downwind landings, but imagine if every square inch of your body can feel what's happening to the airflow! Imagine how easy flying would be, and what tricks you could do.

Also, have you seen a large flock of starlings coming to roost in a city? It's fantastic - thousands of birds moving as one. Of course the guano aspect of it isn't so fantastic...

[toolowtoofast]

Are you sure it wasn't a parrot from Norway?

[Bertie Thruster]

but imagine if every square inch of your body can feel what's happening to the airflow! Imagine how easy flying would be,






http://www.bradfordcamps.com/vs300.jpg

[cats_five]

He's got his clothes on... Dunno about you, but I can't feel much through a few layers of good solid tweed.

[MightyGem]

This thread made me think of another tale involving the flying expertise of our feathered friends. Spookily enough it I've just found it on a thred in the Mil Pilots section.

Ducking and Diving

The Tides Reach Hotel at South Sands, Salcombe, Devon features a fresh water pond some 40 yards from the high tide mark. The pond is constantly refreshed by a small stream and is home to 54 Chinese carp and 30 or so Mallard drakes and ducks.

In May, the majority of the ducks were upstream, privately hatching their broods. The drakes, their allotted task fulfilled, were lazing around the pond, although the odd one was still wooing and hoping to win. The pond to the sea side is sheltered by a wall and a 10ft high hedge; to the north stands the hotel, and the remainder is screened by trees some 30ft high. All attempts to land on the pond into the standard off-shore breeze are tricky, requiring a high approach over the trees, followed by a rapid descent into the turbulence created by the protective hedge, on to a target that is less than 50yds long.

On the day in question, the off-shore breeze had given way to a force 7 gale, which meant that most of the drakes wisely remained grounded. The ducks were otherwise involved. However, in mid-morning, a drake appeared over the trees and was seen to be flying hard into the gale. He dropped like a stone into the shelter of the trees, reduced his now considerable forward momentum wwith some dextrous wing work, and landed winthin a yard of the front edge of the pond, veering hard left as he did so to avoid hitting the bank. The safe landing was most skillfully done, but it was a damn near thing.

Moments later, an attempt by a duck was much less masterly and at the very last second she overshot, to be followed immediately by a second duck that suffered a similar fate. Each made two more approaches, trying different techniques, but never managing to beat the tricky wind conditions and always overshooting in good time to clear the hedge. Throughout, the drake looked on anxiously, getting progressively more agitated. After the sixth overshoot, the drake launched himslef into the air.

Some two minutes later, a Vic-formation of thee appeared, with the drake leading the two ducks. The approach was good considering the conditions and the drake would surely have made it safely; perhaps he was stronger, perhaps his wing area greater, perhaps his power to decelerate was better, but as the round out approached his ladies started to go high on the critical flight path and were in danger of crash landing. The drake saw their problem immediately and he elected to overshoot the formation, guiding it to a safe landing in the sea immediately on the wrong side of the hedge.

Five minutes later, the drake waddled into view, followed by the two ducks. Squawking loudly, they padded across the road, round the trees and along the footpath into the pond. The drake was still very much in command of his small harem, with his swagger and general manner indicating that he was giving a very thorough debrief. Here was a sound lesson for all who fly. In extreme conditions, there had been no dying accidents.

There are obviously some days when a safe approach is impossible. On such days, an alternative safe recovery must be found. We could all learn about flying from that.

[topendtorque]

Ever since being able to reach the pedals of my dear old dad's farm tractor and thus be soloed onto the very important farm task of continuing in ever decreasing circles with something behind that looked real meaningful, I can remember being impressed with, pluvvers, doing limits turns, especially just at dusk, with the bottom wing juuuusss dragging the dirt, and pee wee's doing stall turns, but NEVER into their own downwash.

A fact i only appreciated years later, after I tried a few torque turns back down into my own downwash. sacre-bleu!

Since then I've learnt to appreciate the antics of hundreds of correllas that roll onto their backs, just like fighter aircraft do, but in a frenzy and from an altitude of only two feet, (when they're severely frightened by the rapidly approaching big metal bird that is) and pull FULL power straight into the ground.

Another speccy type is of the long necked shag variety, boy oh boy, downwind, into wind, crosswind, it matters not, when they hit the water at terminal velocity, without the undercarriage down, it's kinda spectacular.

But for those nature lovers amongst us I never managed to gallop wild horses off cliffs like one bloke I know.

Nowadays I jess fly in ever decreasing circles while a mob of real meaningful animals ( in a dollars sense that is) submit to my tender ministrations.

Oh, and yeah I don't tend to spill my coffe much these days.

[Gordy]

Maybe the starling thought it was a duck...I cannot claim credit for this, but funny all the same: From my archives:

The cat, duck and tree method of instrument flying.

Any pilot that has more than 10 minutes of helicopter instrument hood time will tell you, maintaining attitude is the most important thing that you must do when flying instruments. Unless the “dirty side” is down, things such as fuel remaining are just not very important. Thus, the CAT is the most important part of this technique. Not just any cat, but a special feline that fits the required specifications to become your primary attitude indicator. As any young lad can attest, when a cat is tossed into the air, it will always land on its feet. Therefore, you can use a good cat as your attitude indicator. Be sure that you select a very alert cat, not one that is prone to curl up and sleep. One that has part of it’s tail missing (probably from a rocking chair incident) or one with singed fur, will be more apt to remain alert, due to the fact that it has already lost several of it’s nine lives.

Now in your helicopter, you will need a flat level place atop the instrument panel for the cat to stand and be in plain view as you fly the aircraft. If your cat has been de-clawed, you will want to provide a sheet of sandpaper for the cat to stand on so that it can get a good grip during turbulence. Be sure to use a fine grit sand paper, as you don’t want the cat to think that this is the sand box, or you will soon have other problems to deal with during your instrument flying experience.

Next we need to find a DUCK for use as our approach aid. We all know that ducks will not fly in bad weather, so all we need to do is throw the duck out the window and follow it down to the ground. But alas, things are not that simple. Most ducks like to land on water, and unless your helicopter has pop out floats, be careful. So after much testing and deliberation, I have determined that the little ducks with a white ring around their neck and dark green wing feathers, are the ones that like farmer’s fields and should be used to find large open areas in which to land. Do not feed you duck corn, as they will prefer corn fields. You should feed the duck any other grain that is short stemmed and easy to land your helicopter in (golf course grass seeds work well).

Anyone that has watched cartoons knows what will happen if the cat and the duck get together. Cats like birds! So you must keep the duck in a covered cage, but within easy reach. This is very important, don’t let the cat know that you have a duck onboard the helicopter, or your primary attitude reference will be totally useless. One more important note that I almost forgot, you will need to modify the duck by clipping some of the wingtip feathers. You will need to do this through “trial and error” until you clip just enough so that the duck cannot maintain level flight, but must descend at around 500 feet per minute. Otherwise, the duck will fly around VFR on top until you run out of fuel.

One more thing---beware of hunting season!!!! Need I say more.

There you have it, a simple easy to use method to fly IFR. No longer will you need JEPP, SIDS, STARS, NOS, WAC or any of those other silly letters. Just a cat, duck and tree. OH, I almost forgot, the tree. Yes, you will need to find a small pine tree, in a little flower pot, that will fit on top of the instrument panel. Remember to water the tree and if you keep your helicopter in a hangar, you will need to provide a sun lamp, but be careful where you place the sun lamp, as moss will only grow on the north side of a tree. Thus, you can use the tree for navigation and always know which way is north. Now that pesky cat will want to use the tree to sharpen it’s claws, so you may need to install a fence between the cat and the tree to ensure the accuracy of the moss on the north side of your tree.

If you have a small dog, you can bring them along to help keep the cat awake and standing upright. Which reminds me of the story of the airline pilot that boarded the aircraft and walked into the cockpit to find a dog sitting in the right seat. He turned and asked the cabin attendant, “...what is this?”. She said that this was one of those fully automatic airplanes that can fly itself. “OK”, said the pilot, “but what is the dog doing here?” She said, “he’s here to bite your hand should you try to touch any of the knobs or switches that could disrupt the automatic systems”. The perplexed pilot said, “then what am I suppose to do?” As the cabin attendant turned to walk away she said, “You captain, are suppose to feed the dog.”

Be kind to your dog, cat and duck, you may need them the next time you go flying and the GPS fails.

[kwachon]

Once watched a starling get into a spin after a mid-air with a pellet..sadly failed to recover and met with terra firma...

[biggles99]

some more animal facts......

all birds sit on fences with their beaks into wind.

if you can see the legs on a cow you are no more than 500ft agl

if you can see the legs on a sheep you are no more than 200ft agl

if you can see the legs on a spider, you are probably on your side in a field.

yes, i know, birds and spiders aren't actually animals......

[RVDT]

During the misspent youth...............

While working in a bar at an island resort, for entertainment, we use to accumulate all the dregs from the unfinished drinks in the bar (preferably spirits) then in the morning visit the kitchen and gather all the bread crusts from the mornings toast manufacture. Dip the crusts into the accumulated brew then feed it to the seagulls................................:rolleyes:

Also found that you can out turn Black Swans in a Piper Cub, they will stall in the turn........................:O

[Bravo73]

yes, i know, birds and spiders aren't actually animals......

Why aren't they? :confused:

[biggles99]

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles99 View Post
yes, i know, birds and spiders aren't actually animals......
Why aren't they?



because spiders have 8 legs and are aracnasomethings and birds are ... birds.

someone will need to help here (if they are really bored), at the edge of my knowledge.

[Dan D'air]

His/her wings were going like rotors prior to touchdown( over a distance of about six feet)

That's a BIG starling................................:O

[dragman]

I actually saw a wood pigeon fly backwards at 120 knots, right through my prop.

[ShyTorque]

if you can see the legs on a sheep you are no more than 200ft agl

This theory isn't a good one; I once badly scared myself whilst trying to descend what I thought was 200 feet. I suddenly realised I was looking at field mushrooms, not sheep. :eek:

[Cron]

Shy's post reminds me of a well known tale told between Hang Glider folk when the wind's off the hill and we all know the day is over but don't want to go home. Apparantly it is true.

I guess it could have occured in any arena of low speed aviation - its components are one HG pilot at the end of a 50 mile difficult XC, failing vis, tired pilot and a model village.

Yes, you have it, pilot (circling over village whilst setting up for landing) thought he was at 500' and next second ploughed through Churches, houses etc in a spray of lego bricks.

Regards

Cron

PS B, it wasn't blue but it nailed itself to the ariel.

[topendtorque]

A mate of mine was one day a bit sick of me going on about our very famous and beloved '47's.
He finally says, "yeah well they're the only aircraft in capivity that gets birds strikes on the trailing edges."
cheeky bastard.

[Bravo73]

because spiders have 8 legs and are aracnasomethings and birds are ... birds.


They're certainly not mammals but they're still animals (in my book.)

Anyway, back to the thread. Did we establish if it was African or European? :}

[LordGrumpy]

Did we establish if it was African or European
Or being able to invert for a lark, could it be deviant?

[Cron]

No inversion, European, not Blue, no deviation.

Thanks for the responses.

Regards

Cron