Can it be legal?

[eatmywake]

All hail to the Dispatcher, the one who tells Pilots where to go! In a nice way of course, avoiding the rough stuff!
Anyway, does anybody know if there is a regulation buried anywhere in JAR Ops that covers Flight Dispatcher working hours? I know that in the FAA's there is such a rule, but not sure about JAR/JAA regs!
Surely to god 60 hours in 5 days, 12 hour shifts, dispatching world wide is not legal???
Any help or pointers greatly appreciated.
Toodle Pip, Tally Ho! Bandits in the boardroom!!

[boredcounter]

Just out of idle curiosity, how many days off and on what pattern?

[west lakes]

For UK & EC workers these are worth a read.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/em...page28978.html (http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page28978.html)

Note the following paragraphs: -


Where the regulations do not apply
Air transport, as covered by the Aviation Directive (2000/79/EC). This Directive affects all mobile workers in commercial air transport (both flight crew and cabin crew), but not workers employed in General Aviation On 1 August 2003, the Working Time Regulations extend cover to the following sectors:
Workers in air transport, other than those covered by the Aviation Directive What if a worker agrees to work longer hours?
An individual worker may agree to work more than 48 hours a week. If so, he or she should sign an opt-out agreement, which they can cancel at any time. The employer and worker can agree how much notice is needed to cancel the agreement, which can be up to three months. In the absence of an agreed notice period, the worker needs to give a minimum of seven days' notice of cancellation.
Employers cannot force a worker to sign an opt-out. Any opt-out must be agreed to. Workers cannot be fairly dismissed or subjected to detriment for refusing to sign an opt-out.
Employers must keep a record of who has agreed to work longer hours.In other words you are subject to it unless you agree to opt out of it. I would suggest any employer that says different is in breech of the law
And
http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/em...page28979.html (http://www.berr.gov.uk/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page28979.html)

Daily rest

A worker is entitled to a rest period of 11 uninterrupted hours between each working day.Weekly rest
Weekly rest

A worker is entitled to one whole day off a week.

The same (or similar) got asked in the engineers forum, this is the answer I posted.
Though not in aviation I work in an industry with high safety requirements.

[FougaMagister]

eatmywake - just to clear things up (I've seen it from both sides of the fence): in JAA-land, the dispatcher does not have the authority to tell us where to go - even in a nice way. He/she provides the flight crew with the necessary information (i.e. weather, NOTAMs, PLOGs, load info etc.); the decision is still the crew's to make. In most outfits, Flight Ops can decide whether to CANX or delay or re-route a flight. Dispatch is now very often out-sourced, and therefore "only" concerned with ensuring a safe and expeditious turnaround. Been there, done that.

Cheers :cool:

[Lauderdale]

Flight Ops delaying a flight? Can't remember the last time I saw my Chief Pilot running out of his office to stick a DLA in!

Neither can I remember my training Cpt re-routing a flight either!

Or any of the admin pilots CNL a flight.................

When you say Flight Ops, you really mean the Ops department.

And when you say 'Dispatch' you really mean TCO's and GHA's...............but lets not go there (AGAIN!!)...........

[FougaMagister]

Correct. I did mean Ops (as opposed to Ground Ops). But even our main "client" (a well-known integrator) is entitled to delay our departure, CANX the rotation or re-route if need be.

GHA? Most people (including crews) wouldn't have the faintest idea what that refers to (I've only just worked it out)! Granted, the term "dispatcher" does have a different meaning depending where it's used - and FAA dispatcher training (and responsibilities) are very thorough. But from my seat on the flight deck, the guy/girl preparing/managing the turnaround is a dispatcher. I don't care what it says on his/her yellow (or red) jacket.

Otherwise I agree with you!

Cheers :cool:

[merlinxx]

That body on the ramp turning around you're airplane is A RAMP TRAMP, TURN ROUND CONTROLLER, TRAFFIC ERK, MOVEMENT CONTROLLER what ever, but not a FLT OPS CONTROLLER or FLT DISPATCHER OK!

[mathers_wales_uk]

You also have a Dispatcher and a Load Controller, Load Controller does everything a dispatcher does but create the loading instruction theirselves for weight and balance along with the Loadsheet Dispatcher has their loadsheet and distribution created at mostly a central load control.

If a dispatcher or load controller is not satisfied that the a/c is safe for whatever reason, they can refuse to let the a/c go until they are satisifed and in that case we can tell the captain where to go, or where he's not going.

It is not just the captain that signs for the loadsheet it's the Dispatcher / Load controller too.

[OPS1978]

I do my own Loadsheet at the departure gate so what does this make me a dispatcher or load controller? I get paid as a Dispatcher but load controllers get paid more than me but i do there job aswell as my own on a turn round.:=:O:ok:

[FougaMagister]

"It's not just the captain that signs for the loadsheet, its the Dispatcher/Load Controller too" - except in oufits like mine, where I get to do the loadsheet every time. Then there is only one signature on it. Not to mention positioning flights, where there is no legal requirement for a loadsheet (although it's good airmanship to do one anyway).

I won't get drawn into semantics over the exact job description of a Dispatcher. Those, like OPS1978, who work on the frontline will know what I mean. Anyway, this is all thread creep.

Cheers :cool:

[mathers_wales_uk]

I do work on the front line as a Load Controller, sign the triple A, Create a loading instruction, Load sheet etc.

If you create the loadsheet and create a loading instruction for the Ramp Guys, including deciding where you are locating the bags yourself then you are a Load Controller (because your controlling the load).

I only leave the aircraft go when i'm happy such as all official doccumentation in place etc, I can refuse a push if i am not happy and when it is my signature on the loadhseet as well as the captains/fo's (in some cases).

However you are correct that with a positioning a/c (if empty) doesn't need a loadsheet and a captain can create a manual.

I'm sure that any pax flight (with pax on board) other than GA (not sure on those), requires a copy of Loadsheet at departing airport regardless whether it is a manual loadsheet or a computerised.