I'm leaving "Dammmn" he barked ?

[BALEWA]

I'm leaving, he barked looking at me, damn man I'm outta here he said.......

Here we were, early morning, 35,000ft, beautiful, wide open skies, I nearly choked on my coffee when he told me what his early morning rage was all about.

My colleague is an expat pilot flying with our company here in Lagos. Apparently he had just found out this morning in the crew room before we left for DNAA that his pay was less than we locals.

A few days back we had just received our payslips with our promised payrise highlighted for us all on our pay slips and while discussing in the crew room this morning with his fellow expat colleagues was told that it looked like we locals had been paid more than they the expat pilots.

Personaly, yes I got a payrise but can honestly say I dunno what these guys were given or how much they earned before this recent increase.

" This is crap he kept going, less than the locals is not acceptable, ok, if we were given the same pay then ok, fine I can handle that, but less than you guys, no way I'm leaving man this is just crap....... on and on and on he continued.

I sat there in total disbelief.

My reason for this thread is quite simple and honestly if Captain Rant Bark feels like leaving, then I'll gladly pay for his ticket.

What our airlines have done to us in this country regarding this expat and local pay thingy is the greatest injustice in the Nigerian aviation industry to we pilots.

Here is a guy who is fully accommodated in a comfortable guest house (fed, free laundry etc), is chauffeured to work, his business flight ticket payed by our airline every other month to his home country to chill for six weeks and is being paid what we locals can only have nightmares about, flying a spanking new machine spurting saliva all over me about earning less than me.

I had no reason to blame him, it was not his fault, we brought this rubbish on ourselves and we are to blame for it all and it just makes me sick....

The time has come for this kind of injustice in this country to end, it must end, especialy at the rate our industry is now looking so attractive for expat pilots.

I was even led to understand a few months ago by one of them that the pay in Nigeria compared to their own countries was far more, sometimes even double of what they get in their homelands, excluding the perks that we serve them here.

The pay for foreign and local pilots should and always be the same, let us all rent our own houses in Lagos or wherever, buy our own generators and pay our bills like the rest of us locals. Let us all find our way to the airport and pay our own tickets home, just like I did when I worked in a foreign land as an expat pilot.

I felt so irked by his comments this morning, believe me I just had to tell him that, well, if he felt that this was an injustice to him , then I agree he should leave. Period and find something better wherever.

For how many years I sat on this same chair in Nigeria and watched teenagers from so called expat countries coming to fly here in Naija and carting away far more than what I could even rummage in over 100hrs if my back would take it and then also accommodated and treated like royalty.

This morning for some reason I drove home with a little thought.

I went to the same flying academy like they all did (USA, UK) and passed the same exams and fly the same damned aeroplane like expat pilots, even better than most I have had to cope with lol.

So why the difference in Pay and perks.

This should stop. Please end it. Being an Expatriate pilot in Nigeria or wherever in this world should not make them better than the locals in any way.

I swore never to earn less than any Expat pilot of the same experience and ranking ever again, and salut my airline for this landmark decision, believe me no one should.

[NaijaNinja]

Sir Balewa, I tire O for all this Oyinbo People! You suppose give that man a parachute at FL350, trust me he go 'drift down' to his mama land, wherever that is!

Where you dey now? i dey ask 4ur help to confirm i had properly read a thread on VK few days ago.

[lowbypass]

Why should it not be acceptable IF they have same merit?
There might be a shortage in a particular Airline/Company yes but what drives someone to declare getting paid less than a 'local' unacceptable?
There was a construction company in my country and there was this boss, who believed they paid 'locals' too much.
He always said to the pilot of the company's citation2 that "paying these people too much money is like giving them a death sentence, they end up boozing too much and wind up getting aids".
He was serious.
It could be true but why 'care'?
I wonder why should someone almost abandon ship at 350 after realising he is paid less than a 'local'.
Isn't he a 'local' at his country?

[GormanInkarnati]

Maybe he feels that he needs to be remunerated appropriately for the inconvenience, to himself and his family, to live in a 3rd world place such as Lagos??

[V1... Ooops]

I swore never to earn less than any Expat pilot of the same experience and ranking ever again...

Balewa:

I don't know the circumstances of your particular employer, but do keep in mind that it is not uncommon to pay 'expat' staff more than permanantly employed local based staff in many industries - not just aviation - when local shortages of skilled professional labour make it necessary for employers to recruit staff from 'away' and position them at the job site.

Here in Canada, we have a shortage of skilled labour in many trades - from aircraft pilots to professional engineers to pipeline welders - at the Fort McMurray oil sands in Northern Alberta. If a company can't find a local permanant resident to fill a position, they will recruit an 'expat' from elsewhere in Canada and provide them with housing, meal allowance, local transportation, a rotation based job schedule such as 2/2, 6/4, whatever, and may even pay that person more than a local based permanant employee. In this case, the 'expat' will have the same education, professonal qualifications, citizenship, and skills as the locally based employee. Race is a non-issue because we are a country of many races.

The key difference between the permanant, local based employee and the 'expat' is that the local based employee is a permanant employee and has all the benefits that entails - job security, being able to have dinner with the family every night, whatever company benefits are extended to permanant employees and so forth. The 'expat' is a contract employee who knows that their employment is fleeting - were it not for the shortage of local residents with the same skills, they would not be there at all, and if suitably qualified local residents become available, their contract will end.

I've worked both sides of the street - contract pilot in Africa, and local employee here in Canada. This year, I've employed 'domestic expats' on the same terms as described above due to local labour shortages, and some of these folks are making twice my wages to do the same job I do!

So, do keep in mind that the whole 'expat' business is a supply and demand issue. When demand goes down, you'll be saying 'goodbye' to your expat collegues. When demand goes up, chances are you'll be perusing the back pages of Flight International yourself, checking out what expat jobs are available in other parts of the world that require the exact skills that you have to offer.

[BALEWA]

GORMAN, Thanks for reminding me I come from a third world country, amazing that third world countries like mine can afford to pay better than should I say first world countries like yours eh.

V1....ooops, I get your point and thanks for your insight, my point is not based on what they pay the expats and how much more they get compared to us locals, believe me Sir, I dn't give a damn about how much more they get!!!

All I am saying is if they get a penny then I get a penny also, period.

Look at your point, and I quote " So, do keep in mind that the whole 'expat' business is a supply and demand issue. When demand goes down, you'll be saying 'goodbye' to your expat collegues" then it should work both ways, because if we lay down our grieviences concerning the difference in pay and decide not to fly you can imagine the consequences Sir, what then, will they now bring in more expats and pay them even much much more due to the situation.

Me thinks that airline would go bankrupt in a week.

All I am saying is pay us all the same. I can accept the accomodations and transport, but pay us the same salary.

Is that asking too much for goodness sake.

[seper]

I am a Nigerian
I have worked as an expat outside Nigeria
I was fed housed and transported
I was paid far higher than the locals
Would you accept to work in a fellow West African country say freetown,monrovia, goma or abidjan and not expect some extra?
does the expat go home to the warm embrace of his family daily?
come on what do you expect,even emirates provides all you say,and at the end of the day,can you balewa fly all your bosses airplanes?
If he cant find enough pilots tell him to wind down the airline and make you unemployed because of your aversion to expats!
let them be there just there to earn a living!

[flux]

Balewa my dear fellow,

A few thoughts. I am sure you are the P2 (no disrespect), but the guy you are talking about is there because of a huge :mad: gaping hole in your market. Why he is there I am not entirely sure, because you could not pay me enough to spend my life in Nigeria. I have spent a couple years in and out of Nigerian airports, and it must be some of the most dangerous airspace in the world. This poor guy, probably is ther out of desperation, imho should get paid the big bucks. It is his perogative to stay or go, but I believe contarct jobs should pay handsomely. He is not on holiday buddy ......................... Trust me :ugh:

Sorry guys, after posting, I only read the other posts. Did not delete, because this is the way I feel, although others expressed very similar thoughts.

[V1... Ooops]

All I am saying is pay us all the same. I can accept the accommodations and transport, but pay us the same salary... Is that asking too much for goodness sake.

I don't think that is "asking too much", but it might be a bit of a shortsighted view if you look at the whole context of the labour market that is causing the employer to recruit expat staff in the first place.

I think that we can safely assume that most employers want to make a profit, and one of the fundamental principles involved in making a profit is that you don't deliberately pay more than you need to to recruit, hire, and retain qualified staff. If your employer is paying a premium to recruit expat pilots, the only possible justification for that (that I can think of, anyway) is that there is a shortage of local residents with the same skill-set or the same experience. I mean, what employer in their right mind would spend all the money required to hire expats if they could find equally qualified people locally?

That takes us to the economics of expatriate work. The expats are short term contract workers, and for that reason, they demand a higher rate of pay than someone who has a permanent job. That is no different than other industries - the best parallel I can think of is hiring a car and a driver: If you hire a taxi (shortest contract duration), you pay a lot per mile or per day, if you contract a car and driver for two weeks or a month, you pay less, and if you go out and buy the car and then hire a driver as a permanant company employee, you will have the lowest labour cost on a per mile or per day basis.

It doesn't appear fair that expat salaries are higher than local resident salaries when you compare the salaries as stand-alone issues, however, I am sure that the employer would much rather have all the positions filled by local residents and not have to pay the premium that comes with expats. In other words, your employer is probably just as unhappy about the higher salaries of expats as you are.

Hope this makes sense.

[Sir Osis of the river]

Balewa,

I have also worked both sides of the equation. Expat and Local. There have always been discrepancies in T&C's. In some cases, even the expats have had different salaries, depending on where they come from, when they were employed and who employed them.

It is a fact of life, or as someone above said supply and demand.

If you cant deal with it, why not go be an expat and earn more than someone else, somewhere else?

My two cents worth.

[AAL]

Balewa, simple - get rid of the expat pilots, you seem so clever you and your mates can get on with the job.

If there was no incentive/s do you realy think expats would be prepared to go work far away from home and their families under trying circumstances in some (like you were reminded) third world country.

Get your chip off your shoulder and become an expat pilot yourself!

[chileno 777]

Let’s put it in a very basic way (I am sorry for this but certain people need a kindergarten explanation sometimes).:*

I brought a new airplane (or want to bring) to the country. The market is growing so I want to invest and therefore make money. Need to hire 5 F/O and 5 Captains. Unfortunately after searching in the whole market could only find 3 locals copilots and only 1 local pilot. What should I do? Do not invest and loose an opportunity or to search for qualified people on foreign markets? Ok…so the answer is to try to attract foreign professionals. How? Offering them an interesting package (salary, accommodations, benefits, etc…). I do not want to do it because I do know that it will cost me more than currently the competition and I pay for a local pilot. What should I do? Do not invest and loose an opportunity? So the answer again is to search for expats. What will be one of the first questions that the expatriate pilot will ask me? What sort of benefits (including the wage) I am willing to offer. What would be one of the second questions that the expatriate pilot will ask me? What is the rate between his income and the local pilot’s salary? Why? Because in the expatriate salary market, the remuneration that local professional earns is always the point of reference to establish (upwards) the expatriate salary. Cannot be the other way round (or equal) because if is the case how the hell I would attract the expat people? Are you willing to go overseas (far from your family, alone, on an uncertain (short term) contract, and sometimes in a dangerous country) to earn THE SAME that the locals earn? No :mad: way!

[BALEWA]

Why the use of :mad: all over the place with your posts!!!

I believe my opinion does not in anyway insult Expatriate pilots who work in Nigeria, so why all this kind of Anal hissing words please.

Hi flux, no disrespect taken but you got that one wrong, P1... !!!! Also your point about the guy I am talking about is there because of a huge gaping hole in your market, is far fetched, I believe he is here because he just aint finding a job anywhere else also.

Your right, they are here just out of desperation, your words, Sir.:\

Now lets get something straight, all I am saying is in Nigeria as things are today we should all get the same pay.

[Shrike200]

...my point is not based on what they pay the expats and how much more they get compared to us locals, believe me Sir, I dn't give a damn about how much more they get!!!

All I am saying is if they get a penny then I get a penny also, period.

Aren't those two sentences in complete opposition?

[AAL]

Shrike200, yes Balewa is very confused, but he will hide behind the language issue. English not his mother tongue. :D

[razorback]

I see the mods removed my post. Did not think it was that bad?? Everyone who reads Balewa's posts will agree that he is a stirrer, troublemaker extraordinaire. So Balewa, if you dont have any constructive remarks, rather keep quiet. You are irritating.

[Very_Low_and_Fast]

Balewa,

Expats still have to pay their own “local” bills back home as you do. For him coming to your country was his choice. For your company giving him a job was NOT their choice because they would rather employ “local” pilots. But they did not have suitable qualified ones… And they had to employ an “expat”.

For an expat to have higher salary is normal as a mere compensation for spending half of his lifetime away from his family. Also for spending that time in a :mad: hole like Lagos.
Difference in pay will always be market driven. And you know it. So, just push your seat back, relax and enjoy your flight. Don’t worry, someone is looking over your shoulder and you will get home in one piece and happy to see your family.

[flux]

I would really not have to have any place to go before the centre of exelance (spelling, sorry boys) becaumes an option!! More than enough jobs in SA buddy. Even with NW going down.

[rockpecker]

Sez Balewa:

.....we should all get the same pay.


Are you a member of the human species? Are you even from this planet? One of the idiosyncracies of human behaviour is the branch of psychology known as economics. Whether you like it or not, it is a powerful force in human interactions. One of these, is the principle of supply and demand. If, in any given country, the supply of appropriately skilled people for a particular task is adequate, no-one from abroad would be offered the job. Hence, where such skill is lacking, it will be imported from outside, at a premium. There you have it - expat pilots - they get paid more. They are imported goods, and imported goods always cost more. Simple, all over the world. Breathe. Get used to it, dont take it as a personal insult (an African thing it seems?), or, as someone already suggested, give it a try yourself! That is, if you feel you can offer superior skills to those of the artisans in the country you intend to visit. If not, then rather keep quiet about others, and try to enjoy what you do. Dont worry about the next guy's salary, it's none of your business. Maybe you need hobbies. Good for distraction. Dont get so tense. After all, flying is a privilege, not a right.

[razorback]

dont take it as a personal insult (an African thing it seems?)

And how sensitive these people can be...
Any criticism, any reprimand, even good advice, is taken as a personal insult, usually with the monotonous undertone of race. Afraid its the old monster rearing its head again.

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

..seper..

I am a Nigerian
I have worked as an expat outside Nigeria
I was fed housed and transported
I was paid far higher than the locals
Would you accept to work in a fellow West African country say freetown,monrovia, goma or abidjan and not expect some extra?


:D:D:D

BALEWA
Stop whining and accept the facts... move on!!!!

BTW I would now more than ever before seriously doubt flying any of your local airlines..... I might end up sitting behind you somewhere:eek:

[Maurice Chavez]

Balewa,

I understand you're P1 and the expat was P2? So what's wrong with your airline, is it that hard to get a P2 in there? Get a guy fresh out of flight school, train him and put him in the seat... Why you need an expat for that? I hope not to baby sit you.... :E

[BALEWA]

I am not surprised by the reactions and posts by South Africans on this thread!!!

Quote
''I understand you're P1 and the expat was P2? So what's wrong with your airline, is it that hard to get a P2 in there? Get a guy fresh out of flight school, train him and put him in the seat... Why you need an expat for that? I hope not to baby sit you.... ''


Maurice, Captain Rant Brant is a Captain just like I am and secondly, no, you got it quite wrong Sir, the fact is I was in there to babysit this fella and release him on flight after he returned from a long stay with a new validation from the NCAA.

And yes we do have quite a number of youngsters in flight school sponsored by the airline whom we expect to start in the company at the end of this year, with another 16 to commence in the summer.

Please keep your insults to saturday nights Bry with your buddies ;) and do me a favor fill up the clipboard and monitor the Radio :=

The fact remains that I have said and made no insulting comments concerning Expatriate pilots in Nigeria. It still baffles me why SA pilots have such an attitude towards the locals here in Lagos. I know its all about milking as much as possible from Nigeria so whats their problem.

[AAL]

Balewa, you are never surprised by the the reactions and posts of South Africans because you can never stop pulling out and playing the race card. As if you have a chip on your shoulder or an inborn inferiority complex. Get over it and get a life.

If you know its all about milking "Nigeria" - then why is your industry in the situation it is in, with knowledgeable people like yourself you guys should long ago have been self sufficient with homegrown expertise and local flyers and not requiring expat personnel. Why only wake up now?

By the way, its not always about milking Nigeria, market forces internationally determine supply and demand and trends and prices. Its about foresight and ambition and getting the best deal possible, no matter where, anywhere in the world, that's how anybody gets ahead in life.

[Maurice Chavez]

Well it wasn't meant to insult you, however, judging from the way you write things,I think you're not telling us the truth. This makes absolutely no sense: "Maurice, Captain Rant Brant is a Captain just like I am and secondly, no, you got it quite wrong Sir, the fact is I was in there to babysit this fella and release him on flight after he returned from a long stay with a new validation from the NCAA."

[razorback]

Balewa, get a life. Now suddenly it's the South Africans' fault? As I understand, they are stuck with quite few of your expats, most of whom are in "trade" rather than other industries. Certainly not aviation. The guys from SA are probably the only people in the world who really know anything about race. Except Idang Alibi, of course - if he has not been sniped yet. One of your country's wiser men.

[Capt Tobias Wilcock]

You got it alright, Pls let the Kruger boys, invite all other jobless expatrites to SA, Nigeria no longer training Ground, we know how they threat their Local or real African pilots, You have shown great decency in your wording, My bro it they ta won as them the reply.we for naija get your point. we go dey look them wey remain.:D

[Capt Tobias Wilcock]

Dear Balewa,
I just read the article about brain in SA, that explains why you are getting that type of response fromSA Pilots, some obviously expect or intend to drain somewhere, not to worry we go dey 4 dem:suspect:

[rockpecker]

Now THATS real ICAO level 6 English!!!

[BALEWA]

Well its more good news!

We are receiving brand new equipment in a couple of weeks and was glad to also find 7 new flight crew employed from Peru!

Looks like my CP has finally got the message about crew from SA......

[Sir Osis of the river]

Good on you Balewa,

Be sure to keep us posted when they leave and we'll gladly send you some replacements from SA. :E

[ogechi]

The amusing thing here is that Captain Rant Bark is not complaining about the size of his paycheque but its size in relation to that ofthe locals. So his paycheque is still as attractive as it was when he decided to leave his first world country and posh high paying job to make the ultimate sacrifice and come and work in a third world country all in an attempt to help the human race. How generous of him.

Captain bark bark due to his large cheque and pea brain actually thinks he is something better than the locals and hence he should be paid better. So what is the issue here

Should expats be paid hansomely to compensate them for their inconviences as agreed in their contracts( even though i still cannot figure why they dont stay at home if the third world is as horrible and dangerous as they say)?

Or is it more important that they are paid more than the locals ( to compensate for any inferiority complex they might have latently)

In the expat contract does it state " Thou shall always be paid more that the locals no matter what" ?

[Wild Business]

Drand new e Taxi or E20:D