Jayrow (incl. Pay & Conditions/EBA)

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

Hi,
As somebody in the industry who likes to remain 'informed' of all options available out there, what are the deals currently available at Jayrow?
I hear alot of big figures being thrown around & I must say, it kinda sounds tempting. Of course, like most of the stuff on here (unfortunately), it tends to be a bit overstated at times.:*

Would someone be so kind as to give a close approximation of the current deals available. I heard soemthing mentioned about a new touring cycle that could be hitting the streets? Anyone heard anything?
You know, just in case.;)

[maxeemum]

Currently 2 tourists in the J. Tourists cost more in terms of pure salary costings, hence are not the preferred employment model for Jayrow.

There might be plans for more in the future, however Chairman not warm to this concept. Supply and demand however will dictate the ultimate employment landscape.

Jayrow employment conditions are variable. Reecently remote fixed base pilots have had a win with pay & conditions however, the base that is closet to head office has yet to be included in the love sharing.

Touring not preferred by Jayrow, however this concept may change in line with supply and demand.


:}

[High Nr]

Max, I think you will find that all the pilots received an increase of some type in their salary package.

I am aware that, their base rate is better than the rest, their touring policy is better [live in the east and work in the west at Jayrow’s expense], yes I also know that they prefer pilots to be home with their family [how revolutionary] in the more distant locations.

They also have a Chairman who is a local, a new CEO and a Chief Pilot who seems to have his eye on the ball.

I always have had a supportive viewpoint of this much maligned local mob, give it to them Jayrow.

[LimitedPanel]

High Nr,

I'll think you'll find maxee is right about the "love sharing" thing.

The base closest to home missed out in the last round of presents.

An annual pay rise less than the CPI doesn't cut it.

[maxeemum]

High NR,

ALL pilots did not as you say receive an increase of some type.....

Jayrows "Touring Policy" applies to TWO pilots....... (policy for two folks?)

Jayrow do not comment on what is best for families, they like any other company consider what the costs are for emplyoing staff and try and match that to what is required for current and future contracts, touring pilots cost more and hence having fixed base aircrew is better for the bottom line and hence is generally the weapon of choice.........

My comments did not include the CP, eyes and balls etc......


No one else has commented on the fact that Jayrow may be maligned or otherwise except for your self.

The thread was opened by OzWhirly wrt touring info and my experience in this area I provided......

Good luck to Jayrow and all that go in search of an Aviation Dollar.....

:ok:

[High Nr]

All Jayrow Pilots received a recent increase inline with some internal scale.....the man agrees that this keeps the guys above the industry standard....in fact Jayrow is the industry standard.

Above the other two by about $5000.

Did your insider mention the new above award payment, of family airline holidays paid by Jayrow?

I will always support this group and always have, maybe you should as well.

[Overwait]

The airline tickets, in spite of all the promises have failed to materialise. This was very poorly received by the YTDN pilots.

The incremental pay rises every November are no where near CPI...These were meant as a bonus for the employees "for doing a good job" some 18 months ago...But unfortunately took the place of the EBA..

On the good side, Karratha got an area allowance increase as did Darwin. But with the cost of living up there its pretty much cost neutral...It was certainly a good move for the company to do that..The next trick is to attract fixed base people to these places.

Tooradin missed out..As it always seems to do...

Jayrow pilot...over to you...:E

[maxeemum]

High Nr.

Once again. What you have written shows that you are mis informed and incorrect in your assessment. The saving grace is that prune is a rumour network and well...... you are putting some good rumours out there.

I speak to these guys on a regular basis and yes I am not alone in wanting ALL Aviation companies to succeed in this market. This way there is more choice for aircrew, good thing for all.

Your assertions to the man etc display a previous or current loyalty to Jayrow and the chairman which suggets that you are on the inside wrt to Jayrow. I am not sledging Jayrow just reporting the facts as TOLD to me by current drivers.

Jayrow being the industry standard is a bit rich, better check what is on offer at present $720/day, 15 on 13 off, $98/day DTA and Touring from anywhere in Oz and 9% super (get out the calculator).

Recall the thread started with Ozwhirly asking about Touring with Jayrow.

You have added alot of other points of view most of which seems to be trying to talk Jayrow up. If Jayrow are offering something above the market then recruitment and RETENTION will not be an issue (build it and they will come).

I suspect that Jayrow like all other similar companies do not have a full order book when it comes to aircrew and ginger beers, so then is Jayrow the industry standard if the order book is not filled?

Back to the thread..........


:ok:

[Sputnik57]

High NR
Seriously, what are you on?
If J'Row are paying so well, how did they fail to recruit the last CHC Captain who expressed an interest in being at Tooradin. And then loose one of your Captains back over to CHC? Answer! Easy, the figures just don't stack up and all the Talking Up in the world won't change the numbers that are simply not that good! Anyway, who wants to sit on the Rig all day!
As for Jerka with his eye on the Ball. Then how did he just fail to secure an excellent applicant for Rocky who instead took 100K plus super with the Lismore Surf boy's???????
The only clap you eva get from me is paying Kiwi his wages whilst he faded away, God Bless his soul! And that I suspect was our Israeli freinds influence.:D
Just focus on you new job, and try not to loose that one!
Back to Orbit.

[LimitedPanel]

Does anyone here know if Jayrow have an EBA or some sort of collective agreement? or are their guys all on individual deals. With this is would there be any sort of progression plan for a newby like myself?

Cheers

[Wayne Jenkins]

Good afternoon all.
Rather than rely on information that may or may not be factual, please feel free to contact me directly and I will clarify any questions that you may have regarding our company.
I will not discuss corporate strategy, internal conditions or philosophy on this or other public forums, or reply publically to questions or comments posted by others, however I do invite interested people with legitimate queries to make contact with me, either by telephone or E-Mail, and I would be happy to discuss your questions.
My phone is always open to “Newbees…New Hires”, to chat about their aspirations within our Industry [I am sure Brendan and Bob would also extend that invitation].
I am normally between: UTC +9 and +11 [Summer Time], so please take pity if your outside these zones.
Regards
Wayne Jenkins
Chief Pilot / Operations Manager
Jayrow Helicopters

E-Mail: [email protected]
Phone: +61 3 85511517 [Direct]
Phone: +61 3 85511500 [Office]
Fax: +61 3 8551 1599
Mobile: +61 418848133
www.jayrow.com.au

[Turkeyslapper]

Sputnik57 wrote:
As for Jerka with his eye on the Ball. Then how did he just fail to secure an excellent applicant for Rocky who instead took 100K plus super with the Lismore Surf boy's???????

Eye on the ball?? Look at the Options!!! Lismore , Great climate, Northern Rivers, not that far from Brisvegas, Byron, Gold Coast etc etc etc.

Rockhampton........Nope, got nothing! Oh it is the beef capital of Australia.

As for Jayrow, Horses for courses. I have done a little bit of work with them in the past and have always been treated very well, as have friends of mine who work with them now.

Turkey

[PhilJ]

heliringer....try looking 2 posts up

[fuentes]

Now that we know the result of the Bristow EBA Ive heard that the Jayrow pilots are trying to negotiate an EBA. When does their current EBA expire and are they going to be in the same ballpark as the big two?

[GreenerGrass]

Fuentes,

From what mates tell me who work for them they currently don't have an EBA in place. Apparently the've been trying now for a few years to get one happening but with no luck. Their management have previously completely ignored their pilots attempts to bargain but are now finally talking to them. BUT, the guys say all management are offering is no pay rise this year then only a CPI increase late next year. This will leave them way behind Bristow with their new deal and eventually CHC when their EBA gets up. There would be a few guys there I'm sure who are now looking at other opportunities.
Hope that answers your questions.

GG

[High Nr]

Nice Post Fuentes for your First Post. #1.

No secret, I openly support this mob, as when I was down they helped, so I'm Biased.

Think you will find that the existing Bosses made Jayrow the number 1 in Australia as far as Pilot Salaries? Can anyone within the group confirm this?

Why would that change?

I think CHC voted against their package, but not sure why.

As far as the much discussed BHT deal. Wake up chaps, whilst there are a few $$$ for the top end bracket, there is very little in it, for the main and lower bracket.
And if Perth suits you, go ahead and give B*b a buzz.

GG, think your just a stirrer mate.....inaccurate and provocative......but heck, why let the facts get in the way of a good slurring post!!!

Bet your wrong.....again!!!

[GreenerGrass]

High Nr,

Not stirring mate, just passing on the info I get from friends.

Your quote:
"Think you will find that the existing Bosses made Jayrow the number 1 in Australia as far as Pilot Salaries? Can anyone within the group confirm this?"
Is now past tense. They have been well and truly overtaken.

I also have mates in Bristow and none of them live in Perth! Even after salary sacrificing their East to West airfares they're still way in front when it comes to salary.
Don't know what you mean by "Wake up chaps, whilst there are a few $$$ for the top end bracket, there is very little in it, for the main and lower bracket." If you are saying that the big $$$ is only in offshore support well then if you want to be involved in this as an operator you have to pay the required salaries.

CHC pilots voted down the EBA simply because it wasn't good enough. (25%).

I think all those FACTS are pretty accurate! :ok:

[fuentes]

High NR,
Thanks for the welcome, yes post number one, gotta start somewhere I guess. Ive got a couple of mates at Bristow and they are not at the "top end". I have spoken to both recently and they are very happy with their upcoming pay rises (they are quite substantial). I cant speculate on CHC as I don't have any inside information there.

GG,
Thanks for the info. I heard the same rumour about Jayrow not offering any pay rises but didnt know the accuracy of it, hence the original post. Ive since heard it a few times. Can anyone at Jayrow confirm this? Will Jayrow still be paid more than Bristow after the Bristow pay rises go through? Do Jayrow allow you to reside anywhere in Aust after your tour?

[C++]

The Jayrow Pilots EBA has been presented to the Management. To date two meetings have taken place between the pilot reps and senior management. So far nothing has been offered, or aggreed upon.
Up until the recent pay rise at BHA, Jayrow was leading the pack.
In fact I think we can thank Jayrow for raising the bar, and BHA for taking the salaries to the next level.
The company makes no secret of the intent for pilots not to tour.
Of course this will be subject to pilot availability, contracts, and the location.
To date Jayrow employ two full time touring Captains, both of whom live over east. Yes Jayrow pay all costs.
If Jayrow wish to recruit/retain, pilots that meet the requirements of the oil and gas industry, they will have little choice in offering a salary package, and conditions, matching, if not, exceeding, CHC and BHA.:D

[SKA++]

So roughly what would the EBA include for the touring captains with Jayrow at the moment compared to that of Bristows and CHC?

[exambohugethighs]

An EBA would have more chance of being negotiated if there were some folks to talk to in senior management in the big glass office next to the airport.........

Might need to Stentcil some new phone numbers on the PBX

:ugh:

[GreenerGrass]

Wouldn't matter if there was anyone there or not I'm told they don't want to negotiate anyway

[exambohugethighs]

Thats a pity and commercially significant GG

If what you say is true, there are only two options available to the pilot body.

1. Stay with the process and HOPE that there will be a favourable outcome.

2. Vote with your feet and move on.

Marching feet have an incredible amount of measured power. Troops marching in time across bridges in WW1 and 2, have been known to set up vibrations that have destroyed bridges and large infrastructure that seemed well built and well enginered...............

Might be time to explore the power of marching feet...............


:E

[spinwing]

Mmmmmmm ....

Somebody's been watching "Mythbusters" again ...... :eek:

[papa68]

Guys,

Interesting stuff - it appears as a thread that Jayrow has picked up where Bristow's left off. Anyone remember Bristow's EBA / Pilots leaving?

Here is what is probably going to happen if the BHA case is anything to go by.

1. Management will refuse to negotiate or their offer will be so inadequate that it'll be laughed at out loud by the Pilot Committee / Body.

2. Some pilots may need to walk in order for management to get the message (remember 6 pilots left BHA in approx 9 months prior to the EBA getting through).

3. Manangement will realise their Pilots and their reps are serious and get back to talking, or, they will test the resolve of their Pilots, realise that they are not prepared to take approapriate action and call their bluff.

The thing here is unity amongst the Pilot Group. If management can spot that there is no real resolve then your doomed from the start. Remember guys, the BHA Committee and the pilots they represented were 100% committed and stuck to their guns throughout - so much so that the company wouldn't even bother to put the EBA to vote unless the Committee endorsed it whole heartedly.

Do the boys at Jayrow have that kind of resolve?

This is what is at stake in case there is any doubt as to who earns what is this game.

CHC - currently under negotiation. Their current EBA is on http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Search/search.asp.

Jayrow - likewise.

BHA - for year 8 Capts / SFOs / FOs.

Capt - $157,770 (includes $19,992 of DTAs grossed up).
SFO - $141,187 (as above).
FO - $105,333 (includes $16,464 of DTAs grossed up).

Of course there are a number of other items such as supervisory allowances, O/T (3 x your daily salary) and my personal favourite, the sunglasses allowance ($270 every 2 years). A 15 year Training Capt will be on about $189,000.

What's more, a further 5% increase will occur in Jul next year and then we go back into negotiations at the beginning of 2010 to do it all again!

In the meantime, the company is growing at an (almost) alarming rate. Last time I heard, we needed 20 new pilots last week. So what are you all waiting for?

The Domicile Policy to be resolved no doubt - sorry I can't help you there.

Good luck. Remember, "You don't get paid what you deserve, you get paid what you can negotiate".

P68:O

[GreenerGrass]

Well said Papa!!!

You sound like a wise aviator. Probably not funny looking either.

The Jayrow guys need to stick together.

I believe CHC pilots are at this point now.

Exambohugethighs I believe it's better to attempt to improve your conditions with your current employer than just say "Oh stuff 'em" and move on to greener pastures. There wouldn't be greener pastures if no group of employees had the resolve and unity to improve their conditions. At least today if it look like management still don't give toss there are numerous opportunities available.

The Bristow guys and girls have done this and their company isn't going to go broke.

We are all an asset not a cost, so it's time each respective management acknowledged this.

[Royal Blue]

Thanks for all that P68.....:

You wrote:

"In the meantime, the company is growing at an (almost) alarming rate. Last time I heard, we needed 20 new pilots last week. So what are you all waiting for?"

.....it would/could have been 19 (and maybe even less !) if your HR Dept had got back to me (and maybe others !) at any time over the last 8 weeks since my application has been sitting in the "In" tray ! :ugh:

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to work in HR for quids..., but a "Got that, wait out" would be good.....

RB

[Plonkey]

Talking with those in the southern division of Jayrow things are very similar for them.They are getting by with overseas crews (ERA C++ Karratha
COUGAR S61 Geraldton).
If they want to ATTRACT and RETAIN Australian crews word is Jayrow Management will need a big change in thinking.Offering CPI for the next few years will not do this.
Pilots will walk as Pilot's do and talking to the guys a number have resumes in with other companies.So with crew shortages everywhere expect some movement sooner rather than later.

Greener Grass is more than just a PPRuNe handle.

Plonkey Pilot.

[ivan]

So where are Jayrow at with the negotiations? - has the company offered more than CPI or are they content to haemorrage all their pilots elsewhere before having to pay a disproportionate amount of cash to retrain a new aircrew body?:ugh:

More foresight everyone..more foresight...

[asara]

They are getting by with overseas crews (ERA C++ Karratha COUGAR S61 Geraldton).

I thought that Cougar and ERA would cross hire aircraft with the contract condition that they are crewed by their own pilots.

Correct me if I am mistaken...


.

[trackdirect]

If the Jayrow boys want to move plenty of jobs around for experienced IFR Pilots.

Also with the MPT industry now going down the IFR road even they have recognised the need to compensate appropriately.

Jayrow doesn't even make the top 3 when it comes to salaries for qualified IFR Pilots in Australian now.

[GreenerGrass]

Looking over the fence from where I sit the grass definitely isn't greener in the Jayrow paddock.
Who wants to give up equal time for a four on two off roster and spend half your working days shut down on a rig in the middle of Bass Strait? All for substandard salaries.
Their management need to offer something better for those sort of working conditions. Won't get me there.
GG

[papa68]

Royal Blue,

I sympathise with your situation as it must be v frustrating.

I believe the problem of rapid expansion goes much further than just putting bums on seats - if it were that easy, BHA wouldn't have a crewing problem as I'm sure the pilots are out there. The reality is, the company is a 'little' stretched at the moment and that means in areas apart from the crewing of aircraft.

It is often a case of picking which part of the jigsaw is the most limiting and at BHA it's probably a race between engineers and tooling. The training dept is also flat out so whilst BHA would love to increase their crewing, and by default, the number of aircraft earning revenue, the reality is far more difficult to manage.

I agree a letter would be polite but i'm guessing your application is just one of many and the HR department simply can't respond to them all.

P68:O

[High Nr]

GG.

I think your pretty safe there.

I hear they only accept Over Achievers.

[GreenerGrass]

High Nr,

No need to get personal.
I'll be happy to remain a well paid Under-Achiever.

GG

[ivan]

Sticking together gets better results for all, unless you're a bean-counter in a helicopter company Monsieur Nr....

I'm with you GG; well paid under-achievement whilst professionally meeting the client requirements is a good place to sit. Want me to over-achieve?...compensate me accordingly!:ok:

[bladebanger]

Didn't I just hear that your out of Jayrow mangement?

They will be glad to see the back of you I'm told

Banger

[Plonkey]

Looks like things are greening up.

The Tooradin boys and the East Coast tourers now have a couple of new options acording to the other threads.

Will Jayrow Management respond with an offer or just keep delaying.

Word across the fence is if they are too slow then they will be too late.

Plonkey Pilot

[GreenerGrass]

Word is, the Jayrow pilots had an Australia wide meeting yesterday to discuss what to do about their management's willingness, or lack of, to negotiate with them. I'm sure we'll see their plan of action in due course.

Quite timely that Bristow announce a change to their domicile policy, and HA's new contract becomes common knowledge at the same time as the Jayrow meeting. If Jayrow management continue to stall I'm sure a few appropriately qualified drivers will be looking west, especially now that they won't have to move their families to Perth. Stay where you are boys and take the chance an EBA will be in place some time soon or move on and earn more now.

The salary figures Papa68 quoted must be very appealing.

[papa68]

If you look at the two "hot" threads at the moment relating to BHA's and Jayrow's respective EBAs, it's interesting to note that:

1. Pepi72 reckons some of the guys at BHA have received a raw deal over the new domicile policy and may therefore leave, and;

2. GG reckons Jayrow's stalling on their yet to be agreed EBA will result in some of their guys moving on.

So there can only only be three possible scenarios, either they're both right, they're both wrong or one of them is right.

Start placing your bets...

P68:O

PS. For the record, I think GG is on the money.

[pohm1]

When will Jayrow wake up and smell the coffee? The sooner they offer to tour their Tooradin guys in from the West coast the happier the workforce will be..:p

[Igor13]

I have heard from two sources now that a united front is exactly what the Jayrow pilots have formed.

We all know from the BHA/CHC negotiations that a united group of pilots is what is required to get these wage changes through.

Previous replies mentioned that their management have a few options, one of which is to test the resolve of the pilots. In the current climate and with what I am hearing about the pilot group involved, the management of Jayrow might want to think twice before calling the bluff of these characters.

It should be good to watch, I have my popcorn in the microwave and a comfy seat. Keep the rumours coming.

Good luck chaps.:D

[ivan]

It was my understanding that Jayrow only had a couple of tourers. No-one regularly tours to Tooradin as I understand it, so I think you might be out of luck to tour from the west pohm.

It's Russian Roulette trying to push the pilots' resolve on an EBA issue when they are majority AFAP members and united nationwide to stick together.

Jayrow management - why don't you just come to the table and deal, avoid any animosity, and talk to your clients now for the increased wages bill. It's not a "tail between the legs" thing, it is the commercial reality of the market. You must see that guys will just go to CHC or Bristow to do the same type of work if you don't - leaving you ending up defaulting on contracts and losing them, or facing an HR crisis and massive re-training costs. It's not a malicious thing on behalf of the pilot body, merely market forces on pay and conditions.

[pohm1]

I guess we need a smiley face with his "tongue in cheek" ;)

P1

[GreenerGrass]

AP,

Lets keep the personal, racist insults out of the discussions lest this thread go the way of previous Jayrow threads. No need for that kind of comment.
Let Jayrow management's lack of response speak for itself.

GG

[THE PAN]

Tooradin Drivers.

Where do you guys fly to and who for ? Apart from the eba issue, gives us all a heads up on your daily routine if you dont mind. Nothing like looking over the fence:eek:

Pan

[JayrowPilot2]

4 Days On, 2 Days Off
Normally 0600 sign on for a 12 hr Duty Day ie out the gate at 1800.
A large percentage of these days spent shutdown offshore for the day.
Flying 50 odd hours a month.

We need an EBA.:ugh:

[pd2]

Is it true that Jayrow's last recruit for the offshore ops was a 140hr co-pilot straight out of a CPL?

Would this poor pilot have enough hours for any of the contracts?

Is Jayrow having recruiting problems?

Or is this just more chinese whispers?

[asara]

Not sure, but I sure would loved to have had that offer when I first started out.

[exambohugethighs]

I recall the definition of insanity is doing something over and over the same way and expecting a different result.............................

:ugh: :uhoh: :confused: :{

[blade root]

Heard a rumour that a offer will be put on the table early next month.

Hope it meets or exceeds the pilot demands......Good luck

[Igor13]

This thread has been very quiet lately.

Obviously you guys got what you were after.

So what did you finally sign off on?

Does that leave just CHC to finalise their EBA?

:ugh:

[Heliringer]

Do they ever advertise postitions for the Karatha MPT Ops? Or do Jayrow have enough applicants to fill postitions without the media?

[JayrowPilot2]

Igor,

Nothing sorted yet mate. The next EBA meeting is start of July and if the company doesn't finally put something on the table we won't be happy. The pilots are ALL united and have pretty much run out of patience. We've all got mates in the other companies and like what they're telling us. Just want to see if we can make our terms and conditions at Jayrow better first.

Heliringer,

Positions are normally advertised internally first and if not filled then advertised externally. Doesn't hurt though just to send your details off to the Chief Pilot anyway. His e-mail is [email protected]
Hope that helps.

[Plonkey]

If I was a betting man I think it would be on the other companies gaining some Jayrow Pilots.

Bristows 1st as they have T & C's signed off.

Helicopters Australia 2nd as they have seen the light and will be matching Bristow.A slight plus for them is the new aircraft type incentive that might lure some.

3rd CHC Why because they are not in the top 2.

And a now distant 4th Jayrow.They used to be 3rd (only ever was 3?) but the new player is far more professional.

When will JAYROW wake up and see the light. It had better be soon or the growth will come to a grinding halt.

Good luck to JayrowPilot2 and the rest of the pilots.

[Alba T Ross]

Heard that Piggy McBeath :yuk: is now the marketing manager for Jayrow !!!! good luck to all the pilots in trying to get an increase in pay with piggy in the headshed the standard responce from him is NO! and damn reality.:ugh:
Helicopters Australia should look good!!

[papa68]

Guys,

The next few days should make for very interesting reading on PPRuNe with regards to this particular thread.:ok:

I hope that Jayrow management have just been playing silly buggers up to this point and will now re-enter negotiations in good faith. Not knowing the individuals responsible for the management of this second tier operator, but knowing very well some of the pilots there, it should be a fascinating 'battle'.

Jayrow's are now so far behind the conditions being offered by other operators, they need to be realistic. Right now, I estimate their pilots are approximately $50 - $60, 000 behind the likes of BHA and possibly HA (but I have yet to see an actual offer), but then who has left the organisation lately?

I think it'll take the resignation of a couple of their Capt's to get things moving along but I hope I'm wrong. It's in everyones interest for the Jayrow guys to get a good result but trust me when I say, I personally know of a couple of pilots that WILL move on unless the first couple of days in Jul prove satisfactory. :}

I applaud the solidarity of the pilots in firstly trying to appeal to management's commonsense before just bailing. What a fantastic opportunity for the Jayrow guys to better their conditions. There is so much work out there, that if they don't come to the party, BHA, HA or CHC surely will.

In fact, I recently introduced one of my Jayrow buddies to my PIC in Melbourne and I have no doubt he would be recommended for a position should he resign from Jayrow's. Certainly, I would recommend him in a heart beat.;)

In this respect, they should be very optimistic about their future prospects. Further, have a look at what is happening around the world - what a great time to be a well qualified pilot with a moderate amount of experience!

I look forward to soon hearing that either Jayrow's are negotiating properly, or alternatively, meeting some more of their pilots as new colleagues of mine.

P68:O

[C++]

Anyone got the latest on the Jayrow EBA?

According to my intel a meeting was held last week.
The outcome of that meeting is yet to be announced.
The one thing I can ascertain is the Pilots are not leaving in droves

Something tells me these guys may have achieved their objective.

Plonkey you might want to reconsider your wager.

The suspense is killing me :ok:

[High Nr]

I understand that the professional attitude of both groups, [note that I have not said 'opposite sides"] is reported to me as being successful in achieving a better deal than any other tier one operator [noting that CHC is taking industrial action now].
And if the detractors: papa68, plonky, jayrow pilot2 [not really in the fold I suspect], plom1, and others get a life and realise that this pilot group and management, that has lead the pack since the ownership change occurred, will continue to work together, and guess what? they will continue to lead the game.

All the above, from a highly reliable source.

Anyone have a different confirmed aspect? [Apart from the detractors that would complain if they won solo 1st Division].

[pohm1]

Detractor? I don't think so, a little bit of sarcasm was obviously lost on some,so I clarified.......

I guess we need a smiley face with his "tongue in cheek"


I have recently benefited from a substantial rise in terms and conditions, and only hope Jayrow can do the same, thus achieving the much sought "tier one " status. :cool:


P1

[High Nr]

Ok....point taken, my misunderstanding.

[xxxchopperpilot]

Very quiet on the Jayrow pilot front, i hope you guts haven't been declined of your EBA.:uhoh:

[papa68]

High Nr,

Not sure where all the detractor, "get a life" and the complaining about winning 1st Division (in Lotto I presume) came from, but it all seems a little over the top.:yuk:

Firstly, the problems between management and the Pilot Committee at Jayrow have been well documented and is irrefutable. The fact that resolution may have been achieved ultimately (I'm sworn to secrecy), has nothing to do with this fact. It is the way of negotiation is it not?:ugh:

I can't find the bit where I'm a detractor as such. I have stated nothing but facts (as presented by Jayrow pilots) and a certain amount of common sense based on experience. I have also continually praised the Jayrow pilots and their efforts in bettering their conditions. Did you actually read my post or make an effort to see where I was coming from? Clearly not. Go on have another look... :}

As I have continually stated on this, and other threads, it is in the interests of all pilots that all operators offer continually improving conditions. Should CHC and Jayrow for instance stall in this regard, it would leave little room to move for BHA's next EBA which starts in early 2010. So I say it again - I wish both Jayrow and CHC success in their EBA talks.:ok:

My commenting on this issue does not, contrary to what you suggest, mean I need to get a life, particularly as I gave considerable thought to what I wrote but I do appreciate your concern nonetheless.

And how you can deduce that I would complain about winning 1st Division from my posts defies description*. :confused:

I suggest you spend a little more time injecting some useful and objective commentary and less time shooting from the hip with emotive and inaccurate diatribe.:=

P68:O

*For the record, I would love to win it.

[maxeemum]

Newtons law of employment-Employees of choice gravitate to employers of choice.................

Newtons law of management-The shortest distance between two points of view is ACTION!

Ball is in your court Jayrow Management...............

:cool:

[JayrowPilot2]

News from our pilot reps is that they reached in-principle agreement on a package with management at their last meeting two weeks ago. :D

It must be pretty good becasue our reps had a clear idea of what we would and wouldn't accept.:ok:

Now waiting for the written summary of the offer from the General Manager.

[papa68]

To all the Jayrow pilots and your Pilot Committee,

Nice one! Congrats.

P68:D

[xxxchopperpilot]

Whoa there fellas, i don't think "in-principle agreement" and "Approved/signed-off" mean quite the same thing. Sounds like you guys are still negotiating, is that the case.:ugh:

[dodgy1]

I am lucky enough to of had a sneak peak at the new Jayrow draft agreement and i must say it leaves the current Bristow one for dead. Good on ya guys!
Not meaning to hijack the thread but i have also been informed that HA's first draft of their new agreement is pretty pathetic :ugh:...i hope they see a copy of Jayrow's.
Its a great time to be in the industry!!!

[Curious2]

Have heard rumours that the CHC one doesn't compare to the Bristow one yet, even though it is not finalised yet. Does that mean best pay and conditions will be Jayrow - Bristow and then CHC. Who would have thought it?

Any of you CHC guys out there have any info on yours? Perhaps a new thread?

[bladebanger]

HOLD ALL HORSES.

I have just spoken to one of the Jayrow single engine drivers up in the NT and he advised me that they have to take a pay cut to pay for the ME IFR drivers. He said around $15 to $20K will be the cut for all of the single engine drivers.

dodgy1
you must be lucky as the single engine drivers only got a copy of the EBA last night?




Banger

[JayrowPilot2]

Banger,


You're just a sh..stirrer mate.
Nothing's officially out yet but from the info we have, ALL Jayrow drivers will get a payrise of roughly the same percentage.:ok:

If any of the single guys are unhappy they haven't voiced it internally. Maybe your source is an ex-Jayrow pilot and has left too soon?!?!

[bladebanger]

The guy still works for the company.

If there is nothing OFFICIALLY out yet then how do you make a statment that
all drivers will get the same increase? And in your words ROUGHLY.

I did ask the guy did he voice it to the members of the Pilot Committee.
I then told him to make sure that he speaks to the person who is on that committee
who is a single engine driver. He said that he has tried that but they are not interested in helping out as they are all twin offshore drivers.

Thats from the horses mouth.
Are you on the pilot committee and if so HAVE YOU sold out the single engine drivers?


Banger

[#3#]

Blade banger

your past Jayrow thead post show you are obviously a level headed chap with a chip on both shoulders!
On behalf of all current jayrow pilots,get over it!

There has been alot of hard work gone into negoiations,with ALL input from ALL pilots presented to the management.

Jayrow pilots should very pleased when voting time comes,and if not they can always say no like the CHC pilots did.

[JayrowPilot2]

Banga Boy,

Your "mate" obviously hasn't brought his issues with the pilot reps because I can guarantee he would have been listened to and provided feedback. This has been a very inclusive process.

Me thinks you may have some personal gripe against Jayrow, as what you say here isn't the truth. In fact it's far from it.

[bladebanger]

jayrowpilot2,
I have no gripe against jayrow at all. I am just concerned that some of the lower time guys are going to get screwed over by the twin off shore drivers. Thats all.

#3#
Nice of you to post for the first time. Like so many of the other jayrow pilots have you also changed from another user name?
I was not talking about input into the negoiations by all pilots, just that this young driver has told me that the draft EBA has him in a wage bracket lower by a considerable amount.
I asked him if he had spoke to the single engine rep on the pilot comittee to voice his concern and his words were that they are not interested in changing it even if he drops $15K. I think from your and jayrowpilot2's replys, that you twin drivers have sold out on the single guys.

Banger

[#3#]

blade banger don't we all hide behind a pseudonym.?

If getting ALL our pilots better wages and conditions is selling them out. guilty as charged.

[bladebanger]

#3#
Are you Guilty then of getting the single engine drivers with Jayrow to take a $15K pay reduction so you can feather your own nest?

You said that you will get ALL your pilots better wages but this guy tells me that he is taking a $15K wage cut. You seem to be like Jayrow managment and forget that the single engine drivers are the backbone of that comany and have done it tough for the company for the last 20 years.

$15K loss is a big cut. I carn't see how you could do it to the guys?

Banger

[JayrowPilot2]

Blade Banger,

PM me with your details and I'll give you some facts that you can pass on to your mate.
I've tried to PM you but you don't allow it.

[dpale]

I'll be buttered and buggered from both sides! I seems that the latest form of discrimination is twin engine pilots vs single engine pilots. Good going Guys, concentrate on fraternal differences instead of trying to improve the lot of all of us:mad:

[bladebanger]

dpale,
You are 100% correct.
We shell see what happens when its voted for.

Banger

[papa68]

Guys,

This thread is fast becoming the usual slanging match with little (if any) factual information coming to light.

I suggest we all just sit tight until Jayrow's EBA actually becomes public as clearly some of the contributions are designed to be controversial if nothing else.

Whilst I find it incredible that an EBA could be struck up that would so disadvantage one group of pilots over another (a 15K pay cut - are you serious?), at the moment it's just one word against another and given all the different agendas etc involved here, this thread is starting to get a little personal and lacking in substance. :yuk:

Bring on the facts...

P68:O

[pohm1]

P68

Bring on the facts

Mind your language, facts have no place here, what does the R in PPRUNE stand for?


P1


(And watch your step....:{)

[JayrowPilot2]

Blade Banger

Still waiting for your PM so I can give you the facts if you acutally want them.
As pohm1 states, facts don't necessarily apply on this forum. Your comments are proof of that.
I know the Jayrow Pilot Reps, and they've gone out of their way to ensure this deal wasn't multi-engine centric. Once the details are available this will be proven and what will you have to say then BB?...... "Whoops sorry guys"

[High Nr]

Oh you will get used to Mr. Blade Wacker.

He, and at least his two other pseudonym’s, has always been a Jayrow critic[s].

Look back through the threads, he is full of constant criticisms without any hint of fact, then states, it’s a Rumor Network, Right?

His foul mouth and personal attacks made the Moderators abort his previous attacks with a thump, and then he / she did not respond to their invitations to provide the facts, he ran.

Move on.

[gulliBell]

Slightly off-topic, but another Australian operator is advertising for foreign pilots to work in Perth:

Job Description
FLYING INSTRUCTOR -HELICOPTER Perth, Western Australia Heli West is Perth's leading flight school. Due to an expansion of our busy flight school, we are currently seeking applications from suitable candidates to join out team of instructors. Start date ASAP. * Current CPL - H * Class 1 Medical * Commercial experience * FI G1 or G2 Good opportunities for future advancement. Overseas instructors with experience are welcome to apply Check out our website Heliwest|Helicopters Perth|Helicopters Mining|Helicopter Tours|Helicopter Charter|Flight School| Helicopter Aerial photography|Agriculture (http://www.heliwest.com.au) All enquiries will be treated in confidence. To apply please forward your CV and flight history.

[bladebanger]

I was wondering when you would come out from under your rock. What are you doing posting on Jayrow threads anyway, they just sacked you?


Jayrowpilot2.

I have a copy of the pilots contract with me now and are now waiting on a copy of the proposed EBA to arrive with the figures. I shall then either post the figures on here or email them to you.

Papa 68.
I would not get into this but I am very concerned that the twin boys at Jayrow have sold out the single engine guys.

Banger

[xxxchopperpilot]

bladebanger, once again you have made yourself look like a complete tosser, as if the pilots would vote on a pay decrease, you idiot!

[bladebanger]

Who said they would vote on a pay decrease you fool.
What an fool you are posting that the pilots will vote on a lower pay deal?
I am waiting on the proposed EBA to get the pay figures to compare to the current figures.
Thats all. Maybe your another twin driver who has sold out the single guys?

We shall wait and see what the figures are.
My mate in the NT says the phones have been ringing off the hook with the guys on twin bases ringing trying to find out who the single driver is who let the cat out of the bag.
Even arsked him what his pay and conditions are and on his contract it states that he is not to disclose it to any other Jayrow employee.

Banger

[blade root]

Bladebanger,

You really have no idea.....

I think you may find that there is a clause within the EBA that stops pay decreases of current employees.. as for pay levels of pilots employed after the EBA comes in, who knows.

Not sure whom at Jayrows you have have it in for, but looking at your previous posts most of which slag Jayrow someone burnt you at sometime.

[Igor13]

I say we hold a vote, Big Brother House style, and kick Blade Banger.

All in favour say aye!

Aye :ok: (that's my vote cast)

[skidsoff]

Hey BB,

My sources indicate that the se guys are looking at pay rises closer to 15k rather than a pay drop of 15k, are you sure your mate isn't dyslexic and got it around the wrong way!!!!

Sorry, should stay out of this, couldn help myself!!

[bladebanger]

Igor13,
So you want to play Big Brother rules. So does that mean because your a twin driver and I'm only a single driver that you should get a pay increase and I miss out and only the twin drivers get to vote on it at Jayrow. That sounds like whats going to happen

skiddsoff,
I wish that was the case but it's not. I have seen the guys actual contract and it's good. I am still waiting to recieve the EBA to get his new figures.

Better still all you twin drivers at Jayroiw, instead of calling the single guys up in the NT and calling all your mates to try and make them post on here to try and keep the facts from coming out, why dont you post the Jayrow EBA single engine Captains pay scale from say year 3 to year 9 on here and I will use those figures?

[Senior Pilot]

Gents,

Enough of the personal abuse.

First and last warning :=

[Heliringer]

So what is a Jet Ranger pilot getting with Jayrow in the NT?
I've been told about 70K but with alot of time away from home, is this correct?
I know about the confidentiality stuff but this is a rumour network after all:bored:

[bladebanger]

Heliringer, Base of 85K. And yes a fair bit of time away from home which is extra.

Banger

[C++]

If nothing else you have managed to keep the thread at the forefront of Rotorheads for the past week. Apart from that I suspect you are a very bored, misinformed, individual, who obviously does very little flying, given the time you have to sit in front of the computer.

At the end of the day your Young, single engine driver "FRIEND" in the NT will recieve a substantial increase in both salary and conditions, and probabley go on to become a twin engine captain.

ENOUGH SAID

[Mogg]

Base rate 85k? Now I know you really don't know what you are talking about. :ugh:
Cheers,
Mogg
PS My phone hasn't rung once.

[bladebanger]

Magg,
Yes 85K. Even got your CP's (WJ) signature on it.
Why would they call you?

Banger

[JayrowPilot2]

Banga,

We've all had the offer now for a few days and you've been pretty quiet.:oh:
Has your "friend" told you that he's done alright out of the EBA? That he's done at least as well, if not better, than the multi-engine types in terms of percentage increase?
And the multi-engine guys have pretty much equalled the Bristow deal so all Jayrow pilots should be happy. Min starting salary for a Yr 1 M/E IFR Capt at Jayrow $107200 + a few extras thrown in.
Over to you Banga!!!:rolleyes:

[bladebanger]

Jayrowpilot2,
I am sad to say that you are in fact wrong again. His percentage has droped. His original contract was for $85 and now in the year he is in for single driver is $73600.
Not what we wanted to see.

However I am glad to hear that the Jayrow deal is in line with what the Bristow pilots got.
Glad to see that at least. Thats the twin drivers looked after now all you at Jayrow have to do is look after the single engine drivers.

I dont know what to tell you Jayrowpilot2, Facts are that he is getting $85 now but under the EBA (if it gets voted in) he will et $73600. Thats a bit of a drop.

Banger

[blade root]

Bladebanger,

May I suggest your "mate" invest in a calculator and get his sums right.

Maybe a CASA approved calculator so he/she can use it to get his ATPL and advance on to "twins" which you loath so much.. and get the theory subjects and exams paid for by Jayrow and get the ATPL allowance as well.

When the EBA is published and made public then the truth will come out..

I think then, you may need another name change...

[JayrowPilot2]

BB,

You're playing with the numbers mate. Is your "mate" B206 NT based or MPT in WA? (Our single ops). Either way you haven't included his area allowance in your figure of $73600 or the NEW MPT shift allowance if that's applicable.
You are manipulating the numbers to suit your anti-Jayrow agenda. I can guarantee he will receive a tidy pay rise.
You obviously don't work for us which is a bummer for you, because you could be on some good coin now!

[maxeemum]

I think Banger is onto something. Let's extrapolate.......

$73,600 Base Salary for one engine, therfore $147,200 Base Salary for Two engines.

Back to the Hammock.......................

:ok:

[bladebanger]

Jayrowpilot2,
I am talking about base Salary. Not no add ons or anything else.
He gets $85 now and will get $73600 if the EBA goes ahead.

I notice you use the term "MATE" as if this guy is just a number. Read my posts to find out where he is employed.

I have no aganda with Jayrow at all. I just want a fair deal for ALL Jayrow drivers.

Maxy, if they could get it that way they would. Good to see your still kicking.

Banger

[skidsoff]

BB

Can you clarify the 85k your mate quotes, does it include all the add ons such as remote area, NVFR, ATPL and so on. I would imagine it does. Its not a fair comparision comparing his past deal with all the add ons to the new eba and only quoting the base salary without the add ons.
As for the MPT boys with the MPT shift allowances and other adds ons they are pretty much up there with the twin engine rates.

[JayrowPilot2]

Blade Banger,

You're talking about one individual. I've done the sums and there's only one pilot in the NT who would fit the situation you describe and I think I know who he is. That guy should talk to the pilot reps and voice his concerns so they can be brought to the attention of management. Something will be worked out. The aim is that no-one is short changed out of this new agreement.

[bladebanger]

Jayrowpilot2,
Thankyou. I think you are in the picture now. I have also told him to contact the pilot reps and get them to sort it out.

Skidsoff.
READ the posts. ITS $85K WITH NO ADD ONS. FOR THE LAST TIME. Everything else is added to the $85K.

Banger

[C++]

It has been a long and drawn out process, but tomorrow is the day for Jayrow Pilots to cast their vote on the new EBA.

From what I can ascertain the boys are mostly satisfied with the final draft. Negotiations definitely improved after a certain senior manager moved on.

Having observed this EBA from its conception its great to see it finally come to fruition. Well done guys. :D:D:D

Time to start working on 2011 .....you know how long it takes

[blade root]

I'm quessing that ERA have a contract with Jayrow. ERA are employing the pilots not Jayrow.

As they will be N rego'd aircraft you will an FAA licence.

[High Nr]

Jayrow don't have any ERA aircraft anymore, therefore they won't need USA crews.

Think you will find that that Advert was for ERA not Jayrow, in trying to crew their aircraft when it was working in Oz.

[yarpa]

At the risk of beng a little off the topic. Where is the CHC (Aust) EBA at? Seems to be dragging on somewhat.

[blade root]

Yarpa,

I heard that it was voted in last week..

[yarpa]

Thanks Bladeroot, I will wait and see if any details of pay and conditions are posted, perhaps in a new thread.:ok:

[buster gonad]

Can anyone give me the current situation Re offshore Co P's. Are the advertised minimums a reality or are JR looking for more? also pay rates if poss. I'm a sub 200 newby and just looking at which direction to head.
Thanks,
BusterG


****e these are heavy...:sad:

[gulliBell]

Sub 200 hours for an IFR co-pilot position is very optimistic. But you never know. I've found that company's rarely follow the specified minimums when appointing Captain or Co-pilot to positions, they tend to hire who they like whether they meet those minimums or not.

[leading edge]

High NR

Jayrow do still have the ERA C++ on lease but it has been moved onto the VH register and is now crewed and maintained by Australian Crews. It is based in West Sale, Victoria currently and is on contract.

[buster gonad]

GulliBell,
Thanks for reply.
Advertised min req for CoP is 250hrs heli. so wouldn't apply until then.
Are all off shore jobs within J on a 15on/13off basis and can you be based anywhere? East coast at the mo.
Is there much of an advantage having ATPLs squared away?
Any idea what CoP basic would be.

Cheers,
BusterG

[Heliringer]

Buster, if you start as a co-pilot with 250Hours where will your command time come from? Do Jayrow do ICUS to get people through the ATPL command requirements?


Are they Looking for Co pilots at the moment or Pilots for other parts of the operation?
Cheers

[chook13!]

Buster G, need min hours command etc for the ATPL to be issued but that doesn't stop you doing the theory tests and having them forever in your hot little hand. I reckon that shows only good things to an employer and saves the mad and stressful rush to get it later on when suddenly you need them. You can study em at home if you like too. I did both fixed and rotary wing after a few dodgy starts thru particularly dodgy characters thru (and no its not an advert just a really glowing recommendation!!) AFT in QLD,, they were and i spose still are very very good at it.

he who dies with the most pieces of paper wins

13

[JayrowPilot2]

Vote for the EBA closed today and from what I hear it was pretty much a unanimous YES. A long drawn out process that has finished with a good result for all; that means single engine, onshore, offshore, captains and co-pilots. Not just looking after offshore captains at the expense of others. The pilot committee received excellent support from the AFAP. Couldn't have done it without them.
Also C++ is right, this thing would have been a lot more untidy if the previous senior manager had still been in place.
Finished up with a package across the board that matches what Bristow have put on the table.

[gulliBell]

Ads in the paper again today, EOI for Jayrow Offshore S76 Captain (Darwin), and on-shore Captains. I'd have thought with a Bristow-eske pay deal signed sealed and delivered then they'd have pilots knocking down the door to get in?

[bladebanger]

Jayrowpilt2,
Congratulations on all the pilots voting on the EBA. Looks like you might get it threw with great results for ALL. (Single engine as well)

Sorry if my posts seem to get under your skin, but it did seem to me that the single guys were getting under done, as well as not having some of the voice. looks like you guys got it all together in the end with great results. Well done

As for the previous manager you had, we had him at CHC after he come from Bristow then to Heli-Air then to you guys. Like us I can see that you's are glad to see the back of him as well.

Banger

[heliduck]

Great to see the money on the increase & I was very tempted to throw my hat in the ring until I went to Real Estate, Property, Land and Homes for Sale, lease and rent - realestate.com.au (http://www.realestate.com.au) & had a look at house prices in Darwin!!!:eek::{:mad:
For those prices I'd have to live at a rest area beside the highway on the outskirts of the rubbish dump in the back my ute curled up with the dogs arse in my face while the family shared the front seat.
Bring on the global recession to knock some sense into the world I say.

[2leftskids]

He we'd be neighbours!!!

[JayrowPilot2]

Heliduck,

Jayrow also pay a $20K per year Darwin allowance in addition to base salary to help compensate for the cost of living. Although I gotta say for those of us living down here in Vic house prices aint that cheap either.

Bladebanger,

Thanks for the good words and apology. Yes it is a good result and I can speak for all of us that this was always going to be a deal that would benefit all pilots in the company. Even though we received minimal(read pretty much zero) feedback from the onshore single guys they have still received the highest percentage increase. Same goes for our offshore co-pilots' increase. Pity CHC didn't do the same thing.

[xxxchopperpilot]

Darwin's no cheaper than Vic, why do the pilot's in Darwin get paid 20k a year more than the blokes in Vic.

[blade root]

xxx,

The cost of housing, fuel, food and services are a hell of a lot more expensive than in Melbourne. The media release of impending Inpex construction has seen some advertised properties increase in price by 30-40%overnight.

Also I think you may find that the $20k is an incentive to get guys to live in Darwin. I haven't seen an ad for a Tooradin captain for a while......

[xxxchopperpilot]

blade root,
are the pilot's in Darwin not provided with housing?

[blade root]

xxx.

No housing for Darwin based pilots.....Other NT based pilot are supplied housing.

[666 advo]

Neither of the 2 positions advertised were for touring as I understand it. Jayrow looks like it is still pushing for fixed-base guys everywhere with only minor exceptions.:\

[Heliringer]

Has anyone got some figures for the latest EBA? I've tried to look it up on Wagenet but no luck. Even rough figures would be good. PM me if you don't want to post. Thanks for any information.
Ringer

[blade root]

heliringer,

It's been voted in and is currently undergoing fairness testing with the commission...

It will be a while before it is on wagenet...

[blade root]

I hear through the grapevine that Jayrow's has again failed to give their Pilots their agreed 4.8.% payrise.

This rise was due 1st July, nearly 2 months later the guys are still waiting.

I also heard one S76 captain has walked, wonder how many more will follow.

No Hangar in Karratha, no payrise...WTF is Jayrow thinking.

[GreenerGrass]

Spot on Bladeroot.
Very unhappy pilots!!!!
What's the point of having a legally binding agreement if one party(management) choose to disregard it???
Time for the AFAP to take some action since the majority of Jayrow pilots are members.

[dodgy1]

Well that captain only took a walk down the road to well, how to you say it, a less than reputable company that after laying off pilots, then employed others...go figure???
So i guess that he had to make the decision of the better of two evils...Jayrow not paying up or moving down the road, taking a pay cut and sacrificing job secruity. I am sure that other pilots have this on their mind right now...both down the road and Jayrow...

Love the point that someone else made a while ago about this sort of thing...when times are bad the companies don't want to pay up but when the going is good, they dont all of a sudden give us a payrise...

WTF...

D1

[fuentes]

I was under the impression that an EBA was a legally binding document. If a company breaches such an agreement then they could be in a world of hurt with the commonwealth workplace authority. The workplace Ombudsman would be the appropriate authority here.

[THE PAN]

Maybe the GM wants a number of pilots to walk:E

[Bol-kowboy]

The Pan,

Well I hope he has a licence, because the way he is going he'll be the only left.

"No-one pulling pitch, no-one making money" :ugh:

We'll just to see what comes out in the wash.

[bladebanger]

Why does this not surprise me.
Some companies/people never seem to learn.
I bet all the big oil companies are watching this.
Watch this space


Banger

[Blackhawk9]

Heard from a guy in the building industry Jayrow are to build a hangar in Karratha 36M x 36M thats bigger than the new hangars CHC and Bristow use in Broome.............maybe they are using the pilots payrise to pay for it!!!!

[2THEMAX]

I guess this thread should be changed from Jayrow Pay and Conditions to Jayrow Retrenchments and Where is my Superannuation?

Best of luck to the boy's who have been let down.

Max

[dodgy1]

So has it come to Retrenchments??
How many people on the chopping block?

[212man]

See here -

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/387040-out-new-old.html

[papa68]

Gents et al,

Apart from not paying their pilots and engineers on Wed, I gather they just lost a Check & Trainer. Some management to following shortly...

Hmmm... 2010 is off to an "interesting" start for Jayrow.

P68:O

PS. Did you guys get paid today as promised?

[Mustbeamug]

:ugh:Nope, pay was solemly promised by today but nothing! Now 5 days overdue and we can't imagine why all our personal creditors don't believe that our employer just hasn't paid us. :ugh: Was a close thing tho, lucky they paid all the admin staff, wouldn't want them to stop making all that money to pay the engineers and pilots when they finally decide to get around to it.

[chopperpug]

And everyone knows which part of management everyone wants to see go. This now wholey and soley lies with the responsibility of the Big Cheese. The new GM is having a red hot go at trying to clean up the mess left by the other part of the Brains Trust that they just got rid of. Take my hat of to Ian, hes got an uphill battle. The only problem is the man standing at the top of the hill that just kicks **** back down again without trying to work out why its so hard to push it up in the first place.
:ugh: They have really good staff on the ground that work their guts out day in and day out, regardless of how many times they get kicked in the nuts from the top while trying to make them more money to throw out the window...:yuk:
Good luck boys. If it does roll over, at least it will be over with, instead of dragging it out like the death throws of an epileptic dog choking on its own turd.
But who knows.. they may manage to get out of this, and hopefully will be the catalyst that is needed to clean out the place of the dead wood.

[bladebanger]

Only they can do it.
That is management of this company know how to piss they people who keep them going off.
I cannot believe this style of management! Its like losing the Tooradin contract all over again, they never paid there bill and ERA came and got their helicopter back. Mind you they deregistered it first, the oil company got wind of it and hey presto the contract handed to Bristow on a platter.

WILL THEY EVER LEARN.


Banger

[Igor13]

...instead of dragging it out like the death throws of an epileptic dog choking on its own turd.


Hats off to that man! :ok:

[poppahymen]

Have it from good source that Jayrow have tendered for a new Timorese contract. Any one know the details
Thanks poppa:)

[Heliringer]

Ask your good source and post the news. I'm sure the Jayrow pilots and engineers could do with hearing some good news after the last few months!

[poppahymen]

If they have tendered as I have been told that doesn't make it good news just news. I think they need to win to be good news:ok: Cheers
Poppa

[outta track]

So.... it has been several days now since it was 'apparently' revealed that pilots and engineers weren't paid?

Can anyone confirm if they have been paid, or are you still waiting?

Good Luck Folks.

[Homeless]

Pilots and Engineers have all been paid.

[papa68]

...and your Super?!?? When was that last paid?

Not exactly an employer of choice by the sounds of things...

P68:O

[floatsarmed]

More bad vibes from Jayrow.:eek:

Are they about to implode?:confused:

[papa68]

floatsarmed,

... are you referring to the Bristow Super Puma + crew about to commence work for Apache in Karratha?

P68:O

[pd2]

Papa68,

Doesn't necessarily imply that Jayrow will lose their work...

[papa68]

Which is why I asked the question :confused:

P68:O

[floatsarmed]

P68
Hadn't heard that one, more bad news for the boys at Jayrow I suspect?:confused:
They must be a very loyal crew at Jayrow. I think I would have moved on by now like a well know superhero doing the bolt before his planet went Kaboom!:}
Have they all been paid yet?

[GreenerGrass]

Yep paid. At least they only have to wait a week until the next pay. See.. there are advantages with being paid a week late :\

[bladebanger]

papa68,
So this Puma is for Apache but don't Jayrow have the Apache contract out of Karratha with a BK117 and a S76?

So is the Puma to take over Jayrow in Karratha?

If so I think it would be all over for Jayrow in the offshore ops in Australia.


Banger

[CYHeli]

Rumour that I got told was that the Tooradin contract was given to Jayrow with the sole intent of giving back to a larger operator once they dropped their price - which BHA did. The idea being that Jayrow as cheaper would get it anyway, but weren't expected to keep it long term, so it would then go to BHA/CHC who had been described as being too big for their boots. Not my words, but someone else. The Jayrow staff were just meat in the sandwich, and to think I applied for a job there.
So much politics in the oil and gas world.:ugh:

[Bell 206]

companies in all industries all over the world sometimes have financial issues, but maybe we should be a little supportive instead of throwing insults or rubbing their faces in the dirt!

Who knows maybe oneday you too may need to put food on your table and they will be hiring and you all know their pay rates are good! :rolleyes:

and yes, the staff i have worked with personally are a loyal bunch!:):):) work with them at Jayrow again anytime!

[GreenerGrass]

There's a fair bit more to the current situation than that CYHeli. Jayrow losing the Tooradin contract last year had nothing to do with some "plan" that was supposedly formed by the gas company five years ago. :confused:

[chopperpug]

Rumour has it staff didnt get paid again this fortnight yet.... more trouble.. getting a little repetitive unfortunately.

[rotor-rooter]

What on earth is going on there now? I hear all sorts of change happening within the organisation!

[High Nr]

I suggest that if you are close enough to hear all the change that is going on, then you are close enough to know what is actually going on, rather than ask a dumb baiting question.

I also suggest, that this group be cut a little slack as they recover from the poor business actions of a now removed foreign big cheese.

[GreenerGrass]

Big cheese.....I reckon more like some sort of blue cheese...where the rot is set in from the beginning. :yuk: Just ask any of the guys regarding this character.

[CYHeli]

So what is the current news?
On another site there is talk that Jayrow has been sold.:eek:

I hope that the guys are getting paid (on time) and have secure jobs, but then again this is aviation...:ugh:

[topendtorque]

I'll post this here, although maybe not the best area.

A contract on the Rudd government | Ken Phillips | Commentary | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/SME-small-business-tax-Nick-Sherry-pd20100611-6ARSK?OpenDocument&src=pmm)

It has to do with the crucifying of contractors such as the stuff and staff and esse of life and blood of the Helicopter Industry worldwide, management, pilotage, or maintenance.

I don't like or need unionism, I prefer those who are a challenge, think a bit, and sure maybe you never when you have 'em, but while you got 'em they're bloody mavericks and top people.

I find myself questioning myself in the parlous world that we live in now, just what is the crime with Personal Initiative.

We seem to be beset upon by adminstrators who wish to set up world Orders to squander to the squanderers.

spare me.

tet

[Epiphany]

Personal Initiative? We are talking about the Socialism of a Labour Government here. They don't like personal initiative and prefer to drag everyone down to the same level and do their thinking for them.

[pd2]

To all the Jayrow Karratha Pilots...

May you speedily find new jobs. You stuck with the sinking ship and supported it as best you could.

A true testament to your characters.

[GreenerGrass]

Yes...the effects of one person's handiwork continue to be felt. First Tooradin and now Karratha.

[homelesstoo]

All the best to the staff in Karratha. All good operators, working under poor management.

At least they won't have to worry about selling the hangar in Karratha..

"The slight of hand of one individual collapses the house of cards.":=

[bladebanger]

Surely this is the end of that FOOL, and don't all you goody 2 shoe pilots come out and defend him again saying that it's not his fault, I have never heard of a company loosing all of its contracts with a 6 month period. Most of the oil companies in Australia will no longer deal with him.

I feel for the guys in Karratha and Tooradin and all other bases which will most likely close now, or has he been running around now saying were going to break into the EMS side of helicopters and order 139's?? Good luck guys.


Banger


pd2 we said

[Nigel Osborn]

Hi Bladebanger
You've always known a lot about Jayrow & as I can't email you, would you be able to email me as to what all the problems are, who & why if possible. I had a great time flying for them some years ago, so will be sorry if things are really that bad.:sad:

[lunafish]

As someone who has worked with the Karratha group of people, all I can say is that it speaks volumes that the client hung in so long.. well done guys, you never let the side down through all the obstacles and service never suffered!

Good Luck with the future.. :sad:

[mad viking]

Gotta agree with Lunafish, YPKA was a good place to be. Even when there were no facilities the service was delivered. Maybe the "armchair warrior" Ballbanger will realise that people are attached to his pet fetishes - bashing Jayrow and/or or the CP and he should go back to watching reruns of midday movies/soapies. Every company matters.

[GreenerGrass]

Bladebanger,

If the "FOOL" you refer to is Jerka you're way off the mark again. He's been doing all he can to keep the place running.
The FOOL was the guy at the top who has financially ruined what was once a great little company.

[John Eacott]

Whenever Bladebanger contributes I am reminded of the advice

Don't feed the Troll

He certainly gets a bite or two every time..... :rolleyes:

[movin' up]

Looks like Jayrow management are doing the right thing by Bristow pilots again.:ok:

[bladebanger]

Well well well,

Nigel, Different time and different people we are talking about.

The rest, if he is not in PART responsible than who is? OK a Jayrow trick in the past is to blame the office girl. He is the CP and is therefore part of the management team. He would have been fully aware of the implications of managements actions yet let them do them. Remember that if you are part of management and these things happen then people will point the finger and questions will be asked and believe it or not the buck stops with the people at the top.

I note that when Bristow or CHC lose contracts and these are public companies then heads roll.

Banger


John. I'm hurt but they do keep feeding me :)

[Jaycapt]

Moving Up!

Yes, you seem well informed, are you connected ?

I am sure Bob will be delighted with the disciplined, well trained and professional crews that are coming his way.

It’s such a pity that Tubby Muddleton created such a negative influence within the oldest Australian Helicopter Company.

Tubby, reportedly skimmed the group dry, God Bless him, whilst others were working their butts off.

The other big boys may have been “Hoodwinked”, and hence the dedicated remainder are working to ensure their own survival.

Don’t ever underestimate the underdog !!

[GreenerGrass]

Tubby was definitely a factor but the main culprit is the one above...the John Friedrich of Jayrow.

[Too Cloudy]

Freddo may have been a crook GG, but I think you will find it hard to find one ex-employee (me included) who would have a bad thing to say about him....even after 20 odd years...I don't think YG will leave that same legacy....Even though the books were cooked at the NSCA, Freddo never squirrelled any away for a rainy day. I think you know what I'm inferring here, but i had better be careful...every time I pop my head up here it gets knocked off.

Blade Banger...way off the mark with WJ...

[bladebanger]

Cloudy, Very harsh???? I hope you can say that to all the guys who are about to lose there jobs and possibly be unemployed in about 3 months time. WJ is as much to blame as is all other management personnel.

I do agree about JF though.

Banger

[Too Cloudy]

BB, My comment relates to GG's comments about comparing Freddo to YG....that was all. There is no comparison between the two....I have read the post again, and I'm not sure how that was mis-interpreted, or how it can be inferred any other way.

No-one should lose their jobs in this manner. But one thing I don't think I need to make clear is who was at fault.


....and no...I'm not fishing...If that's what your emoticon suggests. I am actually aware of what is happening. You probably know who I am, and know my relationship with both current and former members.


I wish the remaining crew all the best in their job search. (although has anyone really started talking redundancies just yet?)

[homelesstoo]

I think you'll find YG and his little mate Nemo had the only hand in the destruction of the company.

To blame WJ is wrong and misguided. Probably the only guy (in management) who keeped the company going.

[YOLLA PLATFORM]

Too Cloudy,

Sounds like you were quite close to JF ;)

[bladebanger]

Unfortunately it sounds like its all over for a once thriving Australian company.
Hope these management clowns who caused this are out of the industry for good.


Banger

PS HighNr where are you? Not defending your mates anymore?

[Epiphany]

Have they lost the contract to Bristow?

[pd2]

Epiphany...

Yes, the Apache contract has been awarded to Bristow.

[Curious2]

What's happening with the Rocky EMS contract?

[pd2]

Time will tell with Rockhampton...

Jayrow are currently advertising for a pilot to fill a vacant position at the base.

Lets hope that common sense prevails and the position will be awarded to one of the about to be made redundant Karratha pilots.

[Heliringer]

I see Jayrow have lost their Karratha contract to Bristow:
Do Jayrow have any contracts left?

Is this the end for them?

[bladebanger]

Ringer.
Depends who you listen to, Jerka telling everyone we have plenty of work in the pipeline. All they have at present is MPT Port Headland, Rocky EMS and Telstra NT.

No more offshore. they really screwed up a good company these idiots.

[Helibloke]

What's the latest with Jayrow, have they managed to find any work for the staff affected by the loss of their offshore contracts?

[Squeaks]

From ASIC:

Name JAYROW HELICOPTERS PTY. LTD.
ACN 005 001 598
ABN 27 005 001 598
Type Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Registration Date 03/07/1973
Next Review Date 03/07/2011
Status ** UNDER EXTERNAL ADMINISTRATION and/or CONTROLLER APPOINTED **
Locality of Registered Office Mentone VIC 3194
Jurisdiction Australian Securities & Investments Commission

Previous State VIC
Previous Number C0100017V

[pd2]

From InsolvencyAppointments.com.au

Jayrow Helicopters Pty Ltd


Appointee:
Appointment Date (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);): 09.05.11
Voluntary Administrations (http://www.insolvencyappointments.com.au/tag/voluntary-administrations/)
This appointment was posted on Thursday, 12 May 2011 at 10:38 am — VIC (http://www.insolvencyappointments.com.au/category/victoria/), Voluntary Administrations (http://www.insolvencyappointments.com.au/category/voluntary-administrations/).
If you are the director, you could remove or revise this record (http://www.insolvencyappointments.com.au/record-removal-services/). Please provide appropriate legal documentation to satisfy us of your claim — for example, a court order terminating the liquidation (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);). Fees apply.

[dodgy1]

Hi all,

Have just read from another thread that a Jayrow guy has been laid off and others too...
What does this mean for Jayrow now?...what contracts have been given away or lost?

Think the writing has been on the wall for a while now.

Sorry for all the guys/girls who are affected by this...good luck.

D1

[2THEMAX]

Red Wine, Aussie Mate, Jerka!

How very Progressive! Good luck to the Victims of this, Pilot's and Engineers.

:D

[Sputnik57]

So as the nails are driven into the coffin, how about an intelligent analysis of how the second oldest Australian Helicopter Company just went tits up? For those who aspired in the early 90's as I did to work for a great Bush Operator, who can explain how this failed and why the concept of a third operator in the Australian market was flawed?

How is it that the sold off components still trade succesfully to this day and why would anybody buy this shell of a Company or it's AOC?

Open to the Forum. Sad times for those of us who added value to the Brand!

Sputnik.

[Helibloke]

In my opinion it started going downhill when Jayrow started to concentrate solely on the Offshore side of the business.
They sold off the fire contracts and machines that had built the business up doing Bush/utility work. They stopped doing Bush work out of Karratha even though the phone was ringing and clients were looking for machines for Exploration etc. This work has been picked up by other operators who are doing very very well out of it.

So cut to 2010 and the Offshore work stops, in my opinion due to the hangar saga at YPKA. The offshore clients wanted someone who at least had a roof over their head.
With nothing to fall back on in the Pilbara the whole operation ceased.
As far as I know the NT has and always will be busy so maybe the operation should regroup up in Darwin and try to start winning back work and making money. Sell off everything that you can't do bush work in and start again.

but what would I know, I'm just an outsider looking in.

[Sputnik57]

Helibloke,

Could not have said it better myself. Apparently no interest from other Posters, a bit dissapointing when you consider how many peolple have worked for this Pioneering Company.

Maintaining the Bush work was obvious to us all, both then and now. Look how HNZ grew and now HeliWest are capitalising on all the errors made. HW without the financial woes of HNZ have fingers in all pies, training, media, survey, EMS and Oil and Gas both on and offshore.

I guess the Management Team are dusting off Resume's and being open and up front with the Creditor's!

Back into orbit for me.