On my Cityflyer trip EDI-LCY this morning I had to admire the continuous polite good humour of the CC (esp Purser) who had to put up with a whole bunch of the most idiotic SLF it has ever been my misfortune to share a plane with. One continued a phone conversation long after the engines had started, and eventually had to be specifically requested to switch off his Crackberry as we pushed back; he then switched it on again AS WE WERE IN THE FINAL APPROACH to LCY. He switched his mobile on as soon as we had taxied off the runway, and Purser asked him to switch it off - he muttered, but appeared to comply. Another switched his mobile on the instant we were on stand, despite the engines still running and seat belt sign illuminated. Purser asked him to switch it off, explaining (when pressed and in the face of stubborn refusal) that he had had to evacuate an a/c in similar situation and the process had been hampered by SLF mucking about with mobiles. Also as soon as we were on stand, half a dozen of them leaped up to grab bags, and had to be requested to sit down again.

I have honestly never seen such a concerted display of bad behaviour by SLF, and their arrogance in the face of polite, reasonable safety requests made my blood boil. Surely an experienced traveller would demonstrate the fact by acknowledging that the extra 30 seconds wait is NOT going to make-or-break his multi-billion-dollar deal? Or that the size of his male appendage is not inversely related to the length of time he spends sitting strapped in his seat?

So, are SLF getting worse? Or was this an isolated incident?

I know what you mean,i fly every week as a fare paying passenger i just wish the Capt would "tweek" the brakes when all these stupid people stand up trying to get bags out of overhead lockers etc,before coming to stand,if we were to need to do an emergency egress then all these people lying on the floor would get trampled on........especially by me! I am a liscensed line engineer for over 27 years and in my opinion SLF are just getting frustrated with all the regs security and feel maybe this is their one kick back at authority ! Stupid but ignorance is bliss.

All in a days work for us cabin crew! Not wishing to sound blasie about the whole incident, it happens and we are powerless to stop these idiots from doing it anyway!

If there was an evacuation i'd be happy to leave these ingnorant fools to find their own way off my aircraft, however in reality i'm too professional to let that happen!!

Anyway, rant over! I agree though 100%, passengers (some) are getting beyond belief!

Nesboy

I find that the less SLF pay for their ticket, the more they want for it. They get annoyed when they don't get a hot meal from the Ivy in economy, for a start.

For a lot of people, manners have gone out the window, and I find more people fly off the handle for the smallest thing. Don't get me started on some parents...

As has been said already, all in a days work. But I do wish that some people could be more polite and put things in perspective.

Keep smiling though, folks. We only have to put up with them for a while, whereas they have to be like that for the rest of their lives (wise words from a colleague many years ago).

Gg

Disobeying CC instructions should be a finable offence, these things could potentially endanger lives of other passengers - in certain situations that is. It's beyond me as to why they all debuckle as soon as the aircraft has touchdown, taxiing is one of the critical points of a flight; that they still don't seem to get.

...why do some think it is below themselves to even reply to your greeting, acknowledge your existence or even look at you as they board.... they are too busy talking into the worlds worst invention the 'blackberry' so they just thrust their boarding card at you and expect you to be able to read upside down as they whizz past you!!

Whilst I'm at it too, why when you all (CC) bust a gut to turn around the ac very quicly and cut down the delay, actually arriving only 15 mins late do they huff and puff and constantly check their watches whilst the airbridge is being attached??? Get a grip!!!

I shudder to think how bad it will be when the whole mobiles on ac is commonplace. I for one may just forget to switch the transmitter on!

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

After landing, but still taxiing, a few months ago, I had made my "welcome to London" PA. As we neared stand and just barely started slowing down, we got the "doors to manual..", but seatbelt sign on, aircraft still moving, fiirst 1 then 2, very soon, about 15 pax were up, reaching to lockers, I made another PA, just reminding them they should still be sat down, strapped in, we may have to stop suddenly etc.. Within 2 secs, the brakes were just tapped, but enough to be quite a jolt.. They sat down.. When the capt came down, I told him I'd just made a PA then the brakes were tapped, how weird. He winked at me and said, "I know".... :ok:

I'd like to say that'd teach them... but we all know it probably wont. Next flight they will be stood up again whilst taxiing and some other CC will have to waste their breath trying to keep people from getting hurt.

How about another thread are CC getting worse??:ugh:

Its not just on aircraft, its society in general of the day. Right or wrong is a personal thing. To me its wrong. Just look at the children/young adults who board the plane. If they say "Hi or Hello" to you, you fall over with shock! :)

Generally flying now days is more a routine now than anything special.

I don`t take any of it personally and just advise about a possible situation eg standing up with seat belt sign on etc
If they don`t want to do it, the passenger will learn the hard way like children do. Remember when your mum said "Don`t touch the iron..its HOT!!!" and you of course one day touched the iron :uhoh: and what was it? mmm HOT! :eek:
Do you still touch a hot iron? Well the sane don`t, unless you have some sexual kick from it.
So if a passenger does stand up why get worked up? I`m near my door I`m strapped in etc.. I`m OK. One day they will learn about "that hot iron" :ok:

Care to expand that statement boeing..boeing..gone??

Nesboy

It might fit better on the SLF forum but I like to share it here since it is appropriate:

Last (Good) Friday I was on a flight to a major holiday destination. The lady on seat 25F (737-400) seats down open here notes and starts reading during the video of the safety demonstration. As we line up on the runway she makes the sign of cross (christian orthodox) and she keeps reading. When we arrived at the destination I asked her why she didn't look at the demo and she says she has seen it a billion times before but she thinks that making the cross sign she would arrive safely to her destination.

During the flight a pax was using his NOKIA mobile and I seriously doubt it was on flight mode. I toyed with the idea of pointing out that to the crew but I did not bother. We landed safely so I am right!


I think the point is that SLF thinks it is well above the regulation because it feels does not apply to them.


Edited to add: I love the sudden breaking idea: I learned not to stand after a similar incident back in 1982...
Rwy in Sight

Surely the solution is to make the seat belts remotely lockable by the crew, like on a fairground ride (not to suggest that flying is the same as a roller coaster, I hasten to add).

Then the CC could even unlock them row by row after arrival.

I like you don't give a damm about the PAX who stand up during taxi in but if you don't try to get them to sit down and they fall on some one then it is the airline that they will be after for compensation NOT the pax who fell on them.

Probably the grounds will be that the airline had a duty of care and by not telling the pax to sit down faled to protect the pax who was the victim of the idiot who would not stay in his seat.

Stockpicker, you obviously had a fairly civilised bunch of fellow travellers, you should try the very UNcivilised buisness people who fly from Manchester to London or the reverse route. The get up to all the tricks you mentioned but also use every weapon available to try to get to the front of the queue of disembarking passengers and I do mean everything - feet, stiletto heels, elbows etc. The MAN-LHR and LHR-MAN are the only two flights on which I request a window seat and then sit waiting until the business yobbos are safely out of the way before I leave the aircraft. How the BA cabin crew put up with their appalling behaviour day after day I will never know and yet they continue to smile and be polite to people.
Glamgirl,I find that the less SLF pay for their ticket, the more they want for it.Really? I find that remark quite offensive. As someone who took slightly early retirement from the NHS I don't have a huge pension so I am very careful with what I pay for tickets. I don't spend my time demanding things I am not entitled to and am usually very happy to help with any medical problems where I can. Please remind me who you fly for so I know which airline to avoid. :*

I just get annoyed with time wasters, I had a chap yesterday who got on and immediately asked to speak with the Purser. He was annoyed by the fact we no longer pre board families with children. I asked him where his children where.... His answer... "I don't have any"

I want those 5 minutes of my life back please.:ugh:

Hey DX Wombat, don't be offended. What Glamgirl said is a generalisation.

Thank god, there are still a bunch of people who do behave correctly, who sometimes even put a sincere smile on your face, and make this job somewhat rewarding. If you're one of those people, a big thank you.

But it still does not change the fact that people do have a tendency of demanding more that they've paid for. In my humble opinion the worst ones are the ones that did not pay for the ticket out of their own pocket (so called business people).

Life is too short to get offended at something that wasn't really aimed at you.

As crew it's definately noticable that in general the less pax pay, the more they want, regularly in first the pax are paying upwards of 6k a ticket and they just don't ask for anything, they will eat whenever is convienient for the crew, they will ask you to do something "when you've got a sec...." and conversely people that pay £3-500 in economy want it and want it yesterday.

In fact, i once witnessed a stewardess going back to the galley for another meal trolley and was told by a passenger that it was completely unacceptable that he had to wait longer than the row in front and that she was a stupid F**king wh*re!!!

I have often wished that they still had a crew member on cargo flights!!!!

oh upgrades, the worst, worse than business people, worse than devil worshippers, they drink the bar dry, eat there own body weight in anything they can get there hands on and generally annoy other passengers and the crew!

"Surely the solution is to make the seat belts remotely lockable by the crew, like on a fairground ride (not to suggest that flying is the same as a roller coaster, I hasten to add).

Then the CC could even unlock them row by row after arrival."

I like your thinking, however it may prove a slight hindrence in an emergency situation!:ok:

Nesboy

why would it cause a problem during any emergency?

surely if they were all locked in they wouldn't be able to panic, run around like headless chickens and make an already stressful situation worse?

we've got to get all that equipment off, it'd be much easier to do if they weren't in the way!

We do listen in to those PA's as you can tell straight away that something is happening back there when you here CC making announcements at times when they usually wouldn't or when the 'normal' PA's have already been done. Than a quick tap on the brakes...we don't want to arrive toooo early do we? := :ok:

I was working in Club and a Passenger said too me that he had not touched his Club Tray and that I'm most welcome to Enjoy it !

Would you say that to someone working in a restaurant ?

I don't know, when I worked in a restaurant we used to devour anything the customers didn't touch. I put on a lot of weight!

Thank you for your comments, however I do say I advise regarding a situation which wouldn`t be the best for the passenger to do and there is a safety demonstration and several PA`s made though out the flight however you can take a horse to water but you can`t make it drink.

"Surely the solution is to make the seat belts remotely lockable by the crew, like on a fairground ride (not to suggest that flying is the same as a roller coaster, I hasten to add).

Then the CC could even unlock them row by row after arrival."



Your vision of the real Cattle class?

"why would it cause a problem during any emergency?

surely if they were all locked in they wouldn't be able to panic, run around like headless chickens and make an already stressful situation worse?

we've got to get all that equipment off, it'd be much easier to do if they weren't in the way!"

banewboi - How do you know that you won't be incapacitated and unable to release the passengers from their seats??

Surely getting the passengers off before the vast amount of equipment is your main priority?:ok:

Nesboy

why would it cause a problem during any emergency?

How would you power such a system?

What if that power source failed?

How would you power such a system?


Electro-magnetic locks. Once the power fails, the magnet automatically unlocks. Bit like those security doors you have in buildings which automatically unlock in a fire/power failure situation.


Back to topic now though. I did 3 flights today, all running between 10-30 minutes early. On the final sector we were boarding around about 15 minutes earlier than scheduled, most pax happy as they realised they would be leaving early and getting back to London early. One chap comes on, I ask to see boarding card and got the usual facial expressions (The "Why do I have to show my boarding card when I am boarding the aircraft?" expressions).

On arrival at London we landed around 20 mins early and had a slight delay with the ground staff getting the airbridge attached (new despatcher). All pax were eventually disembarked around 5 minutes before the scheduled arrival time. Mr Boarding Card pax as he approached the front and I said the usual "Thank you buh-bye" to him shook his head and walked off. Now, this type of pax I find annoying, we depart early, we land early, we gave the pax a pleasant flight (most other pax commented on how polite, attentive, conscientious we all were) but you can guarantee that there will be one tit every flight who will not be happy, no matter what you do. Still, I refuse to let it bother me as he was only in my life for the couple of seconds of checking boarding card and saying buh-bye to him.

Dx Wombat, I did not mean you or anyone else who behaves like a decent human being. I meant the SLF who pays peanuts for their flight and then expect newspapers, pre-take off drinks, champers in economy, a 3 course meal in economy, etc etc. The list is endless. I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention at all, and I'd be happy to warmly welcome you on board my flights any time.

AMS-LHR. Please be careful with the pa's you make. Your purser/CSD may not be happy with these pa's, and as you're new to flying, I'm guessing you still have some IFA's to get filled in. If you were crew on my flight I would ask you not to do the pa. Basically, if adults are silly enough to unfasten their seatbelt, leave them be, or call the SCCM. On the note of the mobile, have a look in the latest issue of CCN. It's all explained there. I don't want you to get into trouble with your peers. Obviously, if someone has taken their baby out of the lap strap and passing them over seats, then you can leave your seat.

Recently, I've had some wonderful SLF on board. It's been so much fun! Hoping for the same type tomorrow :)

Gg

To answer the original question, SLF are definitely getting worse.
As an engineer, I hold type ratings for most of the common types flying up and down the holiday routes. I don't know if this is a factor but I now find it almost unbearable, watching some of the behaviour I see around me when I travel. :ugh:
Look, I don't give a toss if you hurt yourself by contravening the cabin crew instructions, in fact, I pray you do. It's just that by undoing your belt during the take-off roll, you stand a good chance of flattening the occupant in front of you if we have an RTO, you big fat slob, because the hinge pin will break and you must weigh about 260 + pounds (actual conversation!). Yep, nice one, really clever.:D

I've noticed that people are no where more stressed than at the airport. Why? I have no idea. But it just seems to me that it's a habit to rush everywhere and get about constantly stressed. I have also noticed everywhere that people love to blame anything but themselves for their levels of stress.

Office workers turn up to their coffee bar everyday already late then blame the cafe worker for making them late for their meeting. Good one. Passengers get to the airport 30 secs before boarding closes then throw a hissy fit because they now have to rush. Something in the world not as you would like it? No problem just yell at the next person you meet. It won't change anything but at least you'll feel justified in acting like a 5 year old. :D:D:D

I love it that the price of air travel is more affordable now than it's ever been. But someone didn't get the message that it's more affordable now because we've now made (cheap) flying a bit like a McDonalds experience. No frills decor, basic comforts and a product that just passes the requirement. Sometimes I think the airlines themselves are to blame for not setting the expectation right. It sure does sell seats when you advertise a ticket for $39 with a glossy ad featuring well dressed FA's and a customer sipping wine. The reality though is that seat is more akin to the one on a public bus. Maybe if they advertised it with the pax standing up holding onto a handrail then the expectation for food, wine and a first class experience wouldn't be there....just a thought.

I'm very much of the opinion that an economy ticket should be an economy experience and that the first class experience is the privilege of those who wish to pay for it.

Airborne,

I would be interested to know how you and others would define "an economy experience"

Sure. To me an economy experience (in airline terms) is a safe seat to go from A to B on an aircraft that meets all the required safety standards. It's being allowed to board the aircraft, sit in that seat for the duration of the flight and having all relevant procedures adequately explained to me. Also expected are clean and tidy facilities. I would expect to be polite and courteous to everyone else sharing the space with me (including crew) and the same returned. And for a $40 fare I'd be very happy with that.
:ok:

Even though some fares are now as cheap as a bus ride some pax haven't quite got the idea that those cheap fares are a seat to get from A to B. Want full-service? You can have it if you want to pay a full-service fare. I think aviation could do better in portraying the difference between a commuter fare and a full-service fare. They are not the same product.

I've been in this industry since 1964, all within Flt Ops Services, never CC.
Flag Carrier,schedule & charter in the UK & overseas.

Every company I've worked for I've held SEP on operated acft types from Herald, 1-11, Brit 300, Viscount, Comet, 707, DC8, 1011, DC10, 747 & various BIZJET types.

Pax have gotten worse in their behaviour both pre boarding, inflt & post flt.

Reasons are rather simple I believe, as flying became cheaper, more people flew, many of those folks didn't have any idea of the travel protocols required/expected. This I blame the industry for, at no time have I seen a 'Code of Conduct' document produced and/or disseminated to pax.

With every tkt/res there should be a copy of said 'Code of Conduct' supplied, along with signage at all check-in/boarding gates.

Every time I travel be it duty or leisure, I always acknowledge the crew & check the Safety card, I wonder why? Having had a few interesting experiences, not being conversant with "how the feck do I get outa here and wave my I'm over here banner" I'd be stuffed.

Thanks Guys & Girls, you lot do a bloody hard job bloody well 99.99999999
of the time as most of us in the Industry try to do.

Don't call me I handed over my crewing dept 24 years ago!

You'll excuse a refugee from the Rotorheads forum dropping in here but I do spend a fair bit of time as SLF and I sympathise greatly with all of you CC.

I have just returned to Muscat after a visit to Kuwait flying with Kuwait Airways and Gulf Air. I am sure that some of you flying the European routes would be staggered at what goes on (or maybe not!)

Mobile phones beeping at all stages of taxy and even flight. Passengers not strapped in and seats reclined for take off and landing. Passenger in the row in front of me resting her head on the pull-down table during T/O and Landing. I-pods on all the time (aren't they classed as "electronic equipment"?) and of course, seat belts unfastened the moment the wheels hit the runway. A chorus of "clicks" up and down the cabin. People standing up long before we came to rest and the seat belt sign was out.

The poor old CC just seemed resigned to all of this and it is obvious that they are fighting a losing battle with their "customers".:ugh: I just felt sorry for them whilst making sure that there were no idiots in my row who might hamper my exodus if it was needed!

Keep up the good work.

I find most SLF to be pretty annoying, however, LCY passengers are the WORST of the lot. They all think they are hot shot City traders when in reality, most of them are jumped up junior gophers for the real boss who actually has other people do the work for him! Cant stand the bastard lot of them!

Thick pax here, WTF does SLF stand for ?:O

TTFN

Self Loading Freight :bored:

DeltaIndiaSierraPapa,

I find most SLF to be pretty annoying, however, LCY passengers are the WORST of the lot. They all think they are hot shot City traders when in reality, most of them are jumped up junior gophers for the real boss who actually has other people do the work for him! Cant stand the bastard lot of them!


Please tell me you are not employed in Customer facing position.

Seems that business travellers come in for a bit of grief on this thread!

I am a very frequent traveller, with a collection of gold cards from airline loyalty programmes in my wallet and I always try to be as polite and as pleasant as possible on board.

In fact at the end of a recent internal flight in the States I was presented with a really nice bottle of wine from the pursur as a 'thank you' for being so polite (clearly low standards in the US!)

But the one thing that really does irk me, and I know I am being petty, but it is my boarding pass being checked yet again on entering the aircraft. At the airport where I live this is the fourth time that I am required to show it and I just find it completely nonsensical.

Can I also say that the politeness/pleasantness thing does need to work both ways. I have been on many flights where I have been on the receiving end of some extremely grumpy and unfriendly service and I know it isn't anything I have done!

HMHB

HMHB

It's not as if we do that for fun. It's a regulation and is designed by the good folks in your government to ensure you have a safe flight rather than a hijacked one. I'm sure the inconvenience of having to pass a piece of paper over to a member of cc is nothing compared to the shocking inconvenience plummeting into the ground at high speed would be, not just for you but also for your family. :(

Trust me when I tell you that if we didn't have to do it we wouldn't bother with it because we've also got other things on our plate. But since it's a must why not make the best of it and give it no thought? Just hand the piece of paper over, it's easy.:ok:

It's a regulation and is designed by the good folks in your government to ensure you have a safe flight rather than a hijacked one.Being an extremely thick SLF I fail to understand how showing you my boarding card makes any difference whatsoever to the likelihood of the flight being hijacked. Please could you elaborate a little on that for me (and any others like me)?

I tend to cringe somewhat when I hear my crew telling the boarding passengers that they need to see the boarding cards for 'security reasons'. Because no terrorist would ever be able to afford a genuine plane ticket.
Unless we're cross-checking every boarding card against passports, there's no security against stolen/falsified boarding cards either.

But checking boarding cards isn't something we do for fun. Really.

We're just trying to make sure the passengers are getting on the right aircraft. We don't care what seat you're going to, even though we might smile nicely and tell you you're heading to 24G. It might seem unlikely, given all the previous checks, but I still see passengers trying to board wrong aircraft, or getting on/off at transit stops when it's not their desired travel plans. It would be great if there was a system in place infallible enough not to require so many checks (and it wouldn't be rocket science to come up with one), but until then, being required to show a piece of paper before getting onto the plane is what is required.

If you think it's tiresome having to show a boarding card 3-4 times before going on a flight, imagine what it's like explaining why it's needed 300 times.

"Just making sure you're on the right flight" seems to be the explanation that elicits the fastest and most cooperative response from passengers.

Handing over the boarding card is the final step to prevent you ending up at the wrong destination.

I am the senior cabin crew member onboard the aircraft that I work on, and on average about twice a month the ground staff send a passenger down to my aircraft that belongs on another flight. Those pax are actually greatful that the mistake has been spotted BEFORE they ended up in the arse end of Europe as opposed to somewhere like Glasgow.

I remember one Friday night where I was boarding a flight to either Belfast or Edinburgh. There were 2 flights for my airline on neighbouring gates, and both gate shared a departure lounge. It was raining and the pax were having to walk accross the apron a few yards to climb the steps to my aircraft.

Now the vast majority of pax that day had done the correct thing and produced their boarding cards, showed them to me and walked down the cabin. I was suddenly faced with a surely looking bunch of around 10 people who insisted that this was a ridiculous rule and that they will NOT be showing their cards again and saying that I am making them get wet (pouring down with rain outside). I said to them that 1) it is not I that is making them get wet it is themselves for refusing to show the boarding cards. 2) I also pointed out that it is a DFT directive that all pax must when boarding UK airlines show their boarding cards as it is a final check to ensure they are getting on the correct flight. The pax responded with "Do you think we are stupid enough to board the incorrect flight? This aircraft is going to XXX" my response was "Oh really, well that's funny but I am going to YYY", they thought I was mucking around and I said "No seriously, we are going to YYY, you are on the wrong aircraft. Show me your boarding cards now or expect to be removed by airport Police!", one of them then pulled his boarding card out and it said either Belfast or Edinburgh (can't remember which destination I was flying to) but I then showed the group of pax my paperwork for the flight which clearly showed that we were going to an alternative destination. I made them stand outside the aircraft until the ground crew returned, after pointing out that they obviously had not been listening to the flight calls properly inside the gate area, I also then pointed out that you can not rely on the ground staff to check every boarding card properly owing to the fact that they are also busy reconciling cards to try to ensure the correct number of people are onboard and that I am the only person who can guarantee that they don't get to the wrong destination. When the despatcher returned and I sent the pax away with him, the front few rows of the aircraft were laughing and saying to me "Don't you get fed up with passengers like that?" I replied with "No, because the ones that always insist they are right and not stupid will always do something stupid or be proven to be completely wrong wthin a minute or two, I just stand here and wait for it to happen".

Remember, when a cabin crew member asks to see your boarding card they are just wanting to make sure you get to the right destination as my story above shows mistakes DO happen. Those couple of seconds at the door can save you several hours (or perhaps days) stuck at the wrong destination miles from where you want to be. And, think of it this way, you are on the wrong aircraft, aircraft crashes. Your family and friends won't know you are missing, you will be a "John Doe" as there will be no flight paperwork for you relating to that crashed flight. You might even in the event of terrorism related crash be incorrectly identified as one of the terrorists as you were not supposed to be on that flight!

I fully agree with you getoutofmygalley but, as a person of the Scottish persuasion, Glaswegian flavour, may I humbly point out that Glasgow IS the arse end of Europe.

As a regular SLF I try to be as polite as possible with the CC, and I enjoy that most of them ( with regular US carrier exemptions) respond with the same friendliness.

But I also note that there is a distinct degradation in the last 5 years, especially in flights going/coming from Eastern Europe.
a) too much booze ( St. Pete C-lounge, starting heavy drinking at 5:30 am !)
b) no respect for CC announcements
c) getting up as soon as the main gear touches down
d) continuous use of the cell phones
e) disrespectful ( using a political correct word ) behaviour

On a recent flight we had to PAX connecting in FRA from St. Pete to
IAD. They refused to strap in and used the proximity of the cabin attendant who tried to close their belts to have their hands all over her. Then they tried to order to booze which was declined. They got up early and opened the bins while still on the runway. At parking position we were advised by the cockpit to stay in our seats for a short moment.
The door opened and some grim looking German border guard came in and escorted the unpleasant fellows handcuffed off the plane. They receveived a roaring applause ! CC told us that they would go nowwhere today.

Frank

So there is CC in posting in this thread who don't actually know why the boarding card is shown?

Al446

As an expat Scot who has flown into Glasgow a few times this winter I was amazed at how the city had changed and can think of many other places that could have that title.

I am a fairly infrequent flyer, but I am always amazed at how many people unbuckle their belts and try to get up just after we touch down.

You wouldn't unbuckle your seatbelt in a car going at that speed.

Ahhh...the LCY SLF. They can be a special case unfortunately. Not all mind you, not all...

Gadgetman.

Can confirm this scenario. I was aboard a flight from Dublin to Manchester when an irate female accused me of taking her seat; and proved it by showing her boarding card. Further inspection showed she was booked on a Glasgow flight.

We're checking boarding cards to make sure they are for a particular destination, on a particular flight nr, on a particular date. It is another security check, (so we are told). And also as shown it will show up any pax who are on the wrong aircraft. So good points all round I'd say.

I remember working as crew flying out to Faro in the summer of 2004 during the Euro 2004 football tournament. During boarding I noticed a well-to-do looking young lady sat in the front row wrapped in her pashmina. We encountered a discrepancy with the numbers so after several headcounts and conflabs with the ground staff I grabbed the PA and asked, "Is anyone NOT flying to Faro?". The lady raised her hand and showed me a boarding card for Nice (not sure how she got passed the crew, whoops:\). When I told her we were going to Faro she looked at me in disbelief and said, "Are you sure?". At that moment I glanced up and could see 150 blokes, all wearing football shirts, running up and down the aisle, shouting, singing, swearing, farting, belching, waving flags about and other shenanigans. I couldn't believe she'd actually queued up and boarded the aircraft with that lot thinking they were all going to the Cote d'Azur for their annual jollies!

Tudor that did make me laugh. . Thank-you, Still laughing !! :D

All Cabin Crew who have never driven whilst using a mobile phone...............
There is no difference, it is just the general lack of respect for rules, regulations and authority that is modern living.

There is, however, no excuse for the lack of please and thank-you culture becoming evident by users of all services now days. I myself find a quick hi to the crew on boarding and a cheers on getting off, a natural, almost reflex action, be it an aircraft or bus. How do some people supress this?

Slf here, so you'll have to excuse me as being rude and thick ;), i find one thing strange in amongst all the comments. If as has been said, you all hate the slf, or find them annoying, dont you think that possibly YOUR the one in the wrong job, and that a job dealing the with public, and yes they are annoying, (i know the job i do means i deal with the public on a daily basis), isnt one for you, unfortunately in this day and age, politeness and courtesy has long gone out of the window. In dealing with the general public, whether in the sky or on the ground, ends up with you(or me), being at the sharp end of their tongue or their total utter contempt for the jobs that we do. Personally I do try to be as pleasent and polite as poss, as thats the way i expect to be treated in return, but what with current situations with actualy gettin through an airport in one piece and stress free, is these days virtually non existant, for somepeople, you guys are the first ones that pax get to let off steam at rightly or wrongly... One does have to wonder why people go on holiday, by time you get back ,your more stressed than before you've gone:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


Keep up the good work guys, keep puttling the slap on and smiling;):p:ok::ok:

It's probably not even 1 person on every flight who I find a little irritating, it could be 1 every 3 flights, and I'm on 747s, so that's a lot of people, so like in all walks of life, most people are charming, you'll always get fools or rude, ill-mannered folk, unfortunately. And they probably won't be like that only in the air. I think the rude are getting ruder, but the lovely ones are getting lovlier !!
I just think, well at least I don't have to wake up next to them..!

Then you get the pax who make you think, I wish I could wake up next to HIM!!

we might smile nicely and tell you you're heading to 24G

Had a laugh with the CC the other day when I showed my boarding card. He said "Thank you, madam, 2A? That's just at the front of the aircraft on your right." So I, stuck beside him while waiting for the aisle to clear, said "Oh good, you've not moved it then!" He, showing admirable sense of humour for someone who still had thirty or so pax to board said "No, we've left it there. Did you have it last time as well?" I said "Yes, if you look under the seat where the lifejacket's supposed to be, there's a plaque with my name on instead." :}

I must reply to Take-off's post...

Take off, you said that we (I presume you mean cabin crew) all hate all slf. This is obviously not correct. What we are trying to discuss here is that SOME slf are getting more rude, simple as that. We all have had experiences where a slf has behaved in a obnoxious manner, and in the last few years there seem to be more of this type of slf.

I don't know whether this is because there are more flights available or if it's humanity going down the pan so to speak. All I know is that it happens more regularly than it used to. However, this does not imply that ALL slf are hated/disliked.

You said that this is just the way it is these days (not in those words exactly), but I don't see why we should have to accept that? Should we not teach rude people good manners? Should we not show them the way to politeness? I think we should, as the world would feel so much nicer.

For slfs in general:

On the issues of having to show the boarding card again at the gate, told to turn your phone/computer/ipod/blackberry etc off, told when to put seat belt on/off, and basically being told what to do and when to do it onboard an airplane, there are reasons why we ask you to do this. We don't ask you to do these things because we are nasty or mean or control freaks, but because we HAVE to. Our lives are run by the rule book and procedures. We don't make/invent the procedures, but we have to implement them, otherwise our jobs would be on the line.

Therefore, I'm asking you in the nicest possible way, please do as you're asked by the cabin crew. Please be polite. Trust me, it's easier to conform than to rebel against rules.

Gg

Ps. I've just had another day with wonderful slf. Thanks 1A and 1C for the giggles, I had a great laugh with you guys.

I travelled from ZRH to LCY yesterday and was polite to the CC, especially when they apologised for the delayed departure, which saved my bacon.

I got totally stitched up by the exec lounge, who told me the flight was delayed, when it was not and the FIDS which did not display boarding until a minute before the flight closed - and I couldn't see the gate from the lounge, so was not even aware that the a/c was on stand.

Then after I got told quite brusquely at the gate that it was my responsibility to be on time (despite the lounge being run by the same agent) and offloaded, I had to buy another ticket and rush across to the other terminal to get the delayed flight.

Of course my suitcase did not make the flight and I was also polite to the agent at LCY when he did the PIR.

Yes, I know it all comes down to me being reponsible for being at the gate,
but one does rely on the lounge to give the right info and the FIDS to give rather more than 60 seconds warning.

What was particularly infuriating was that three ground staff lied to me to cover themselves, one denied telling me that the inbound was delayed and the other at the gate said they had called the lounge to make an announcement, which wasn't true as I was sitting next to the desk and they did not receive a call at all.

The last one informed me that my bag hadn't made the flight but would be sent on the next flight that evening (there was not one, but obviously he thought I was too stupid to realise this.)

The net result is that I am about GBP190 out of pocket, with absolutely no recourse, even to my travel insurance policy.

So please crew, if we are sometimes a little grumpy (and I was not yesterday), have a little empathy for us as we don't always get great treatment in the airport and sometimes this carries across to you, which isn't fair, but then again what happened to me yesterday was not either

It's probably not just SLF getting worse, society is getting worse. Rudeness, and a lack of basic manners seems par for the course.

As SLF myself, I try to be polite to the CC, I tend to find if you treat others with a bit of respect usually you get it back. Treat people like rubbish, and that's what you get back. Not rocket science.

I admit I am usually one of the first out of my seat but I do at least wait until "Doors to manual" has been announced, but otherwise I am pretty well-behaved. I always switch the phone and BB off on the way to the gate, the last thing I want is someone calling me as I am trying to get on the plane (and I like the peace and quiet of not being called!). I have never had a problem with showing the boarding card at the door, what is the issue with holding the bit of paper out? It's not that heavy, surely?

The main problem is that flying is now too affordable and people who in the good old days would never have allowed within a million miles of a plane are now able to do it. Hanging's too good for them.

I like your post and tone Rush2112, but pleeeeease wait for the seatbelt sign to be off. That's the best signal we've all got to be sure we've finally stopped. It's not the moving of the aircraft that's a problem but sometimes the stopping of the aircraft. Obviously most of the time we come to a gradual stop, but not always.

happy flying to all....

Do you mean it? Does the SLF mean it?

I was on a US Cruise Ship and we noticed that the ice Cream Lady always had a blank expression even when we said P&TY or if we asked her how long her shift was.

One day a tourist of the same nationality came, said "one of those, one of those with nuts, one with choc chips" got served and left.

Our turn, P&TY, still a blank look. "When we say P&TY do you think we mean it?" - No.

I assured her that we did and when we asked how long she was working for we actually meant it. Thereafter we got a beaming smile.

Politeness is not just in the words but in the mannerisms as well. Do the eyes sparkle or make contact?

I still remember the glass of champagne on Air France before the doors were even closed :)

I still remember the glass of champagne on Air France before the doors were even closed


AF is AF. It's probably the only airline to have Champagne on the MEL.

I find most SLF to be pretty annoying, however, LCY passengers are the WORST of the lot. They all think they are hot shot City traders ...... Can't stand the bastard lot of them!
I'll just point out that we LCY regulars most probably are the ones who found the money to finance your airline's initial capital, financed the purchase of all your aircraft, lent the company the money needed because fuel prices have shot up - etc. No £10 fares out of there for us, either. I also always hoped you found most of us quite pleasant, as well.

I just get annoyed with time wasters, I had a chap yesterday who got on and immediately asked to speak with the Purser. He was annoyed by the fact we no longer pre board families with children. I asked him where his children where.... His answer... "I don't have any"

I want those 5 minutes of my life back please.

__________________


Hahahaha thats gold...

There are fruity people everywhere...

This thread seems to reflect the fact that passengers, in these times we live in, are frankly P**** off with the flying experience generally. I'm "SLF" and the only time I enjoy flying is when I'm in the left hand seat of a paper mache Warrior.
The "glamour" of flying is a thing of the past, and the depressing and humiliating experiences at airports world wide means that, for 90% of punters, that they are totally sick of the whole business by the time they reach the departure gate. It is no surprise to me that Cabin staff get the brunt of their angst.It doesn't excuse the fact however.
You have to add to this that people generally are far less polite than they were when I was a lad. (my old man made me give up my bus seat for a lady on every occasion we travelled together) and working for the Airlines becomes just one more of lifes disappointments!!
My daughter was kicked in the stomach, scratched, and nipped, by a guy the other day. He seemingly was upset that she thought it unwise to give him his methadone two hours after she had painstakingly weaned him off his ventilator following a particularly tricky triple bypass. No one is immune from the ignorance of our fellow citizens.
Sadly respect for fellow human beings (in this case the cabin crew who refer to their paying customers as " SLF") is no longer a priority on most peoples agendas.

A bit politically correct Parsnip.
SLF (I'm One) is simply an easy term to describe all passengers, good, bad and indifferent.
I take my hat off to CC's. How would you like to serve 300 meals, tea, coffee drinks etc - I wouldn't - put up with the demands of the SLFs.- I wouldn't - spend nights away from family and friends - I wouldn't - miss weddings funerals because of shift demands - I wouldn't - constantly fight with an operator for decent pay and conditions - I wouldn't. Telephones, IPODS, Computers - I wouldn't - SLF'S WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE - I WOULDN'T NO WAY.
Polite and considerate behaviour seems to be a thing of the past especially on Airlines.
(Cheap tickets = Cheap People ?? )
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK CC'S - I'M WITH YOU !!!!!!!!:ok:

Some interesting discussions here.

My own view is that Society as a whole are changing. More and more people have no respect for others, more and more people are becoming lazier and lazier, more and more people are selfish, more and more people think they are above the law.... and so it goes on.

I am mere SLF and am always polite with a smile and a "hello" and goodbye and thank you at the end of the flight. I honestly cannot see what the problem is in showing your boarding card when you step into the plane. I cannot see what the problem is in 5 minutes of your time to listen to the safety announcements. I cannot seewhat the problem is in waiting until the Captain has switched off the seatbelts sign when you land etc etc.

I think if you work in any customer facing organisation you certainly meet some rude, arrogant and ignorant people. I used to work for a bank and believe you me all the types that are described on here, I have seen and been verbally abused myself.

The airline I have flown the most with is BA and it is amazing from SLF view what a difference a good team can make. For example on our flight out from LHR to DXB the crew were absolutely fantastic, helpful, cheery, full of smiles. However the return journey one week later was a completely different story. It started as soon as we got onto the plane and we were seated right at the back. The overheads were full and my husband said to the CC who was stood at the back and she gave us a dirty look and told us "you will just have to find somewhere else" The rest of this team were the same including the young male CC who had a face like thunder for the whole journey, couldn't muster up a comment or a smile. This is the one and only time I have experienced a poor team.

Do the obnoxious passengers not realise that the lovely passengers are getting far more out of their flight as we will generally move heaven and earth to help them? I recently operated a domestic flight and on takeoff, one of the ceiling panels fell out hitting a lady on the head. Luckily, these panels are light but I was mortified and full of apologies. Whereas some people would have been on the phone to Injuries Are Us or whatever they call themselves, this particular lady laughed it off. As a result, a quick message to base resulted in her and her mother being upgraded to club and treated like royalty on their connecting flight to Turin! Sometimes, it pays to be nice!

c2lass

I don't know what to say regarding your recent experience. There's no excuse for that sort of treatment and I can only apologise for this crew. There really are some people that shouldn't be doing the job but we're not all like that, honest!

JSL

I can think I can say I have only flown with one indifferent FA. It was on a 'local bus' trip. Aberdeen to Lerwick. I guess most passengers just treated the Viscount as a bus, get on, shop, go back.

Anyway he said that if we wanted coffee to press the bell and then settled back to read the Press and Journal or whatever:

PING!

He was lucky. We had seats at the back and the rest of the SLF probably didn't realise that he was doing a regular coffee run just for the two of us.

On SLF again tho, how do you draw the attention of the FA to the pax next to you that has not strapped in? (the FA had not spotted it). I was far too intimidated by the two ladies in comfortable shoes to tell them myself. Besides they had all ready sworn about me :}

Pontius,
They hadn't spotted it..? Honestly, what I love about my job, irregular hours,(weird I know), the lack of repetitiveness, fun on board, interacting with the public. I have to say checking seatbelts isn't my favourite part of the day, however it's not that difficult, and it is what we are paid to do...

Tricky situation, I agree, as a pax... I think I would very politely, mention it to the pax. I realise what you mean though about being intimidated.. If they were closer to the window than me, i'd be tempted to ignore it, they wouldn't be blocking me. If you press the call bell, (and the crew have time to respond to you), you'll still be drawing attention to yourself possibly. Or you could pretend the call bell was an accident, very sorry etc., and the CC may spot the undone seatbelt. But without drawing attention to you, tricky.

Pontius,

I am without sides at your marvellous 'comfortable shoes' comment !

As regards the debate re CC/Talking Baggage - hardly anybody has mentioned the recent (since the likes of Ryanair et al started charging for hold baggage) trend for pax to board with totally non-conforming 'hand baggage'. I have regularly seen stand and CC totally ignore same. The overheads are full almost straight away and anybody boarding after the first influx struggles.

It isn't actually fair to blame the CC as surely there are several opportunities further up the line to prevent oversize (and weight) baggage making it to the a/c?

As for the LCY comments - I've never yet met a City type who didn't have delusions of ability and who was capable of talking at less than 130 dB whilst disappearing up his own vortices. Funny how most of the news is about how many of these august institutions have horribly backed the wrong horse or, even worse, didn't even have the right racecourse.

Eagle402

As has been said by other posters before me, there are good and bad on both sides of the divide but thankfully in the minority. There is too much generalising, especially the constant harping about cheap fares that make it possible for people to travel by air who otherwise could not. Not everyone who buys a cheap ticket is a moron and not everyone in first/business is a saint.
Personally, which part of the aircraft I sit in depends on what kind of ticket the company travel department paid for. Sometimes it's business, mostly it's economy but either way I always try to take my halo as carry on.

s37

Hi Shack37,you're absolutely right,
and I try to treat all people I meet the same, whether I'm at work or not, always the same, but I have to be honest, I wish everyone did. That includes crew and pax alike, it's always the minority though, (thankfully), in all camps...

It works both ways...*some* SLF are getting worse and CC similarly...mind you given factors such as:

a) being treated like s*** by airport security
b) ripped off in airports to buy water, food etc - all those WMDs that you can't get through security

then you start to understand. Though generally I have to agree that things are getting worse regarding people's behaviour.

Anyway to all CC, from me you'll ALWAYS get a "please", "thank you", "hello" and a "goodbye" at the minimum. If things start getting "problematical" (abusive SLF, stupid SLF etc) or you just need a hand* then I'll be more than happy to help as much as I can.

E145 Driver

* leaving Franfurt once as SLF, weather had deterioated, one rwy closed for the night and maintenance and a big backlog of arrivals meant that we were late departing. A couple of SLF started getting s****ty with the CC who really had no more information than what the captain had just announced. When one of the SLF started to show off his "flight knowledge" I stepped in and precisely explained what was going on in terms of how traffic control works, flight plans etc etc. CC appreciated that as it shut the SLF up (I guess his girlfriend wasn't so impressed by his "knowledge" after all).

ps: SAS Dublin->Arlanda crew last week ... great flight thanks to helpful, friendly, smiling, talkative crew - thanks! Made the flight enjoyable.

It's probably not even 1 person on every flight who I find a little irritating, it could be 1 every 3 flights, and I'm on 747s, so that's a lot of people, so like in all walks of life, most people are charming, you'll always get fools or rude, ill-mannered folk, unfortunately. And they probably won't be like that only in the air. I think the rude are getting ruder, but the lovely ones are getting lovlier !!

This happens in my job as well, the rude ones are getting worse, at least I have sanctions like detention after school to allow them to contemplate the error of their ways :E


I just think, well at least I don't have to wake up next to them..!

Then you get the pax who make you think, I wish I could wake up next to HIM!!

its an age thing dear, happens to me as well

I can understand SLF maybe not saying please and thank-you, complaining about silly things we can't control etc. But what I cannot understand is when they make personal, rude comments to the cabin crew.

On a recent flight we had sold out of cigarettes on the duty free cart (well, not strictly true we had one packet of 400 left, but was not the brand this particular gentleman wanted) and this passenger became very abusive in a personal way towards me. The other passengers sitting around him were shocked at what he said, as was I. I simply turned around to him and said "There is no need for that is there, sir."

This is happening more and more at my airline (I can't speak for others) and is totally unacceptable. What gives people the right to think they can speak to other people in that way?! It has happened so many times that I actually brought it up at my annual SEPs with the safety trainer and asked if we should treat these passengers as 'disruptive passengers'? The trainer told me that unless they become threatening or violent, then we should simply just not let it get to us. Their comments don't hurt me, as I know they are not true, but what really agravates me is the fact that they feel they can get away with speaking to cabin crew like that. After all, the only reason we are on that aircraft is for their safety!!! And to get abusive just because we don't have the cigarettes he wants...its ludicris!

To my mind he was being verbally abusive which is unacceptable behaviour therefore a disruptive passenger

The saving grace there, is he smokes so the ill mannered idiot will be dead a lot sooner than you! Harsh i know!

The best quick remark i ever heard was on the very first season of Airline when they followed Britannia and their overly camp CCM called BJ (was there any need?). When a pax was getting all upset that they couldn't drink the alcholic purchases from the Duty Free Cart, without a blink of an eye he replied " well sir they sell condoms in boots dont they?"

girtbar - i agree, the funniest comeback!! didn't only shut the woman up but also made her laugh, which is perfect!

I too would have thought he was a disruptive passenger (along with the other 2 or 3 we seem to get on every single flight) but I'm not sure my company would appreciate all the added paperwork etc, just because I got a bit angry at the comment he made. I guess it is a thin line, and should he have been on the outbound flight I would have at least got him warned at check in. But seeing as it was inbound, I saw little that the company could do anyway. Especially as he assured me he wouldn't be flying with our airline again - (thank god!)

Vodkaholic: I was travelling back from NY on CO with the rest of my family when a 'sold out cigarette' incident similar to the one you mention happened. This time it was the woman sat next to me in one of the inner seats - worse is that she was talking across me. She clearly thought she was able to launch a volley of appalling abuse at the poor girl. Just because she'd run out of fags...

I couldn't stand it and asked her not to talk across me in that manner, who did she think she was to talk to another person like that etc etc. Well, the look on her face....and then the mouthful I got...threats of violence from her, threats that I should watch my back when we got to LGW...

Anyway, to cut a long story short, she was met by the police at LGW and escorted away. CO took the view that she was a disruptive passenger as she had been abusive and threatening to both their member of staff and me. I'm led to believe she got away with a police caution and a life ban from CO. I'd have been happy to give evidence but the police insisted she'd accepted the caution and was totally contrite and that therefore there would be nothing to gain from pursuing her.

I'm not so sure - surely some folk need to be made examples of if we are to have any chance of stopping the antisocial behaviour spiralling out of control?

Perhaps it's time to implement Aircraft ASBOs?

They work so well on the ground.

The two cigarette incidents mentioned above both demonstrate a new aviation difficulty in recent years in that those accustomed to smoking are now prevented from doing so for many hours on long-haul, which they sometimes cannot handle. It's the same as drug addicts beng deprived. I believe this is a significant part of why there was a rise in "air rage" and other incidents this thread describes after the ban, what, 10 years ago or so ? It would be interesting to analyse what proportion of those who have to be met by police on arrival fall into this category compared to their numbers in the overall population.

Had what I considered one of our saner cabinet-ministers on board back from the USA. He had grabbed 3 fat saturday newspapers from the cart. As he finished reading each section, he tossed it over the back of his seat. Hell of a mess on the floor.

When he had settled in for the night, blankie tucked in, sleepmask over his eyes, seatback in horizontal so his head was about 30 cms above the pile of paper on the floor, I proceeded to "tidy up".
It's shocking how much noise you can make while smoothing out & folding newspapers.

Sleep mask came off a very irritated minister, we came face to face at close range and I smiled at him very sweetly.
He had the grace to turn a deep crimson.
The sleepmask went back on without a word.
I love my job. :ok:

KentishRoman - had the gentleman on my flight made threats towards me or any other person on board the aircraft, I would not have hesitated in having the police meet them. CO in my mind did the correct thing. If I could have my way then I would have the police meet every pax who gives me verbal abuse, but I fear the police would eventually see me as wasting their time he he!! But you are right, somebody does need to made an example out of so people understand they cannot get away with it!

When you think about it, the flying experience takes away a lot of the freedom and choice that many people take for granted on a daily basis. People who are used to dishing out orders and not being questioned are suddenly put into the position where they are on the receiving end by people who they deem to be in a much lower social position (ie we crew). "fasten your seatbelts, no smoking, turn off your phone, turn off you blackberry, shut down your computer, return to your seat etc etc" Also we dictate at what time they will eat, how much they will drink, when they will sleep (dimming lights etc). This removal of control and power threatens some people and they can't handle it.

Now don't get me wrong, my biggest bug bare is people with no manners. All I ask for is a please and thank you and even eye contact when I offer you something rather than being dismissed with a wave of your hand. However I think that rather than saying that people are generally ruder these days we have to look at possible psychological reasons behind it.

Oh and one more thing whilst I am on the subject...jackets. Why oh why when we are in the middle of boarding on a single-aisle aircraft do people up the front insist on waving their jackets in your face or even worse going into the wardrobe themselves. It slows down proceedings, we get in the way of boarding customers and then have to fight our way back to the front. I know you are all very important people who have to have your phones on until the very last minute and have to switch them back on the minute the plane touches the ground (thats if you haven't ignored our instruction to turn them OFF in the first place) but please have an iota of patience.

And the final thing...why oh why would i want to touch your boarding card when it has been in your mouth?????

I love my job and I would not stop saying please and thank you to someone who did not reciprocate..I was brought up with manners and taught how to be civil and refuse to lower myself down to some peoples standards.

Rant over..safe flying everyone ;)

I hear your pain,we as engineers have to go through security on average 3-4 times a night,gets to be a bit of a pain .But when you pay peanuts you get monkeys.