"Air Clues" and the Stalling Ducks/Geese/Swans

[DGAC]

Anyone remember the article in "Air Clues", about the ducks/swans/geese that stalled, when trying to make a tight turn after take-off from a small pond, surrounded by close-in obstacles. Or, better still, anybody have a copy of the article?

[Rigger1]

I remember the one about the ducks trying to land on a small pond in a stiff headwind with a steap approach over a hedge, and they kept having to go around, until they diverted and then recovered by road from a nearby lawn. Is this what you are after?

[GreenZeroOneZero]

You're good quack :}

[NickB]

Yep, know it well.

If I get the chance I could scan it in and send to you - interested? PM if so...

NickB

[DGAC]

Thanks Nick PM on the way

[DGAC]

Thanks Rigger 1. Not exactly - but sounds interesting nevertheless. Would appreciate sight of same please.

[exscribbler]

Our nesting pair of collared doves are doing some fancy flying these days.

Their new home is in a conifer hedge behind a large tree covered with ivy. The preferred (upwind) approach is from the ash tree about 15 metres away, despite the shed roof being only 2 metres from the target.

The bird will launch from 5 metres up the ash tree, swoop down for a low pass over the lawn, fly under the washing line and then pull up into a stall turn to port to land neatly on top of the hedge.

This is achieved very smartly and in the best traditions of the service at least eight times in ten. The other twice result in a hot and high approach with associated loss of control in the final manoevre, a crash landing - usually in the hedge - and a very surprised and indignant collared dove.

Still, any landing you can walk away from...

[N Joe]

Haven't seen the article, but there was a duck family that nested in one of the ponds in the middle of one of RAF Wyton's pavillions. Although adult ducks could comfortably fly in and out, ducklings on BFT couldn't achieve the required climb-rate to clear the surrounding building. A short road-move by RSPB's Crash and Smash team eventually solved the problem.

N Joe

[airsound]

What a lovely thread. Thanks.

Quack quack. Or, as they say in Brazil, Queng Queng

airsound

[Monty77]

Can you please post a link on here?

Quite interesting as birds have centrally controlled variable geometry wing forms.

Imagine having a wing that extends/retracts flaps in one second on thought control. And also controls wing twist, span and cross-section.

Call me a spotter, but if you want to extend carrier-borne aggro, then this is where you get the Tefal-heads at Farnborough to focus their undoubted talent.

[Green Flash]

Or, as they say in Brazil, Queng Queng

Thanks Sean. See, we've learnt something new today folks, something about Brazil that I for one never new before. I love Pprune.:\









Majestic Wine are doing a mixed case of St Peters for £1.40 a bottle which might explain the above. The Organic in particular is taking some attrition this evening at Flash Towers. I thank you.

[Mr C Hinecap]

A short road-move by RSPB's Crash and Smash team eventually solved the problem.

Have you seen the new crest for JARTS (new Crash & Smash)?

A labrador with a mallard in its mouth. Bringing back the downed bird as it were.

[Gainesy]

There was a letter in Shooting Times a few years back from a chap who was out walking his Labrador on the beach at Lytham St Annes when a Tonka from Warton stoofed into the oggin. Said Lab ran into the waves and swam around for a while, looking to retrieve it.

Back on thread, two ducks flying over Belfast,
Duck Lead says:" Quack, Quack"
Wingduck replys: "I can't go any feckin quacker".

OK, I'm gone.

[Wader2]

I have a pair of pigeons outside my office using a dense bush as a nesting site for the second year running. They have actually created a runway but like Gibraltar the winds on approach are variable.

A landing usually includes a steep 40 degree approach with starboard wing fold just beofre touchdown. Aerodynamic and arerested braking is achieved with the left wing fully spread and engaging on the branches to the left.

They then back up sliightly, complete wing fold, and then taxi into the hangar :)

[exscribbler]

Just like the old days in the FAA. :E

[ACW599]

Chapter 19 of Rawnsley & Wright's wartime classic 'Night Fighter' contains an evocative description of the swans on the lake next to the Manor House used by 85 Squadron at West Malling for its mess, which " . . . quickly became the object of great interest to the aircrew". Rawnsley wrote:

"Every afternoon the great birds went through their night-flying tests. The lake was very narrow, and they could only become airborne along its length, and in a cross-wind or calm air that called for some strenuous flying. The wild beating of their wings became more and more agitated as they proceeded on their take-off down the lake. One could almost see the look of anxiety coming on their faces as they began to run out of lake and had to make up their minds whether to put on full boost or throttle back for another run".

[Glockenklanger]

Ducking and Diving

The Tides Reach Hotel at South Sands, Salcombe, Devon features a fresh water pond some 40 yards from the high tide mark. The pond is constantly refreshed by a small stream and is home to 54 Chinesse carp and 30 or so Mallard drakes and ducks.

In May, the majority of the ducks were upstream, privately hatching their broods. The drakes, their allotted task fulfilled, were lazing around the pond, although the odd one was still wooing and hoping to win. The pond to the sea side is sheltered by a wall and a 10ft high hedge; to the north stands the hotel, abnd the remainder is screened by trees some 30ft high. All attempts to land on the pond into the standard off-shore breeze are tricky, requiring a high approach over the trees, followed by a rapid descent into the turbulence created by the protective hedge, on to a target that is less than 50yds long.

On the day in question, the off-shore breeze had given way to a force 7 gale, which meant that most of the drakes wisely remained grounded. The ducks were otherwise involved. However, in mid-morning, a drake appeared over the trees and was seen to be flying hard into the gale. He dropped like a stone into the shelter of the trees, reduced his now considerable forward momentum wwith some dextrous wing work, and landed winthin a yard of the front edge of the pond, veering hard left as he did so to avoid hitting the bank. The safe landing was most skillfully done, but it was a damn near thing.

Moments later, an attempt by a duck was much less masterly and at the very last second she overshot, to be followed immediately by a second duck that suffered a similar fate. Each made two more approaches, trying different techniques, but never managing to beat the tricky wind conditions and always overshooting in good time to clear the hedge. Throughout, the drake looked on anxiously, getting progressively more agitated. After the sixth overshoot, the drake launched himslef into the air.

Some two minutes later, a Vic-formation of thee appeared, with the drake leading the two ducks. The approach was good considering the condition and the drake wqould surely have made it safely; perhaps he was stronger, perhaps his wing area greater, perhaps his power to decelerate was better, but as the round out approached his ladies started to go high on the critical flight path and were in danger of crash landing. The drake saw their problem immediately and he elected to overshoot the formation, guiding it to a safe landing in the sea immediatley on the wrong side of the hedge.

Five minutes later, the drake waddled into view, followed by the two ducks. Squawking loudly, they padded across the road, round the trees and along the footpath into the pond. The drake was still very much in command of his small harem, with his swagger and general manner indicating that he was giving a very thorough debrief. Here was a sound lesson for all who fly. In extreme conditions, there had been no dying accidents.

There are obviously some days when a safe approach is impossible. On such days, an alternative safe recovery must be found. We could all learn about flying from that.

[DGAC]

This was exactly the article I was looking for and now that you have reminded me, The Tides Reach is where I first saw it some 10 years ago. NickB has since kindly forwarded me a facsimile of the Air Clues entry. Thank you all for your help, interest and other interesting bird flight stories.

[exscribbler]

Airsound:

My Danish granddaughter tells me that there the ducks say "Rappe, rappe." but it still sounds like "Quack, quack" to me.

Aural discrimination has long been a problem, you may realise. :}

[airsound]

What a lovely article, written by someone with great observational skills - Air Clues at its whimsical best.

These days, I suppose a mean-minded PC nit-picker would find it condescending, and even slightly sexist - but I'm sure the author was trying manfully (personfully?) to be neither.

My Danish granddaughter tells me that there the ducks say "Rappe, rappe." but it still sounds like "Quack, quack" to me.

Thanks for that, exscribbler. As a professional speaker, I'm fascinated by the pronunciation of foreign languages. I often find it hard to see any correlation between the written word and the sound, especially in the lesser-known European languages. Mind you, we English can hardly complain - what about rough, bough, cough, though, etc. And then there's that famous word ghoti*.

Btw, aren't grandchildren a pleasure? As someone suggested the other day, "If I'd known what fun grandkids were going to be, I 'd have had them first."

airsound

*gh as in enough, o as in women, ti as in position - ghoti spells fish.

[exscribbler]

She's 6 and she told her farfar (me) this morning that it's the frogs (the amphibians, not that lot over there) which say "quack" in Denmark. She gets herself into hysterics when I try to pronounce some of the odder Danish words - thank God her dad is teaching her some English.

My favourite Danish town is Slagelse, pronounced slaylser and my all-time favourite Danish word is hygge which I understand to mean cosy and warm and at home with your loved ones. So it's not all Carls Ex, horned helmets and mucky books.

Indeed, Airsound, grandchildren are an unalloyed delight - with the added advantage that you can always hand them back... :ok:

[glad rag]

Smashing read!!

[MightyGem]

Thanks, Glockenglanger. A thread over on Rotorheads today, made me think of that very tale. Spooky!! I hope that you will forgive a quick copy and paste.

[Eagle402]

Much obliged Glockenklanger - marvellous read. A great example of 'pictures with words' - every copy writer's dream.

Whilst out walking with my hounds we are regularly overflown by gaggles of geese/ducks etc and there always seems to a heated debate regarding the nav skills on the bird at the head of the formation. The lord alone knows how they would cope if instructed to "maintain strict radio silence"!. I have had it suggested that the leader is the one with the map but I'm not so sure....

Thanks again,

Eagle402

[cats_five]

Take a good look at those formations of geese - the leader keeps changing (like track cyclists) to spread the workload of lead bird around. I've not yet noticed a map changing wings...

[Eagle402]

Cats five,

I have indeed noticed a great deal of hand (feet?) overs at the head of the formation. The "I have control/you have control" is rather harsh on the ears mind !

Regards,

Eagle402

[glad rag]

................for you but the migrating geese flying from Iceland to Scotland do it in under a day in normal conditions and can get quite high too in the cruise :8:8

http://www.wildlife-art-paintings.co.uk/bird-birds-animal-artist/prints-for-sale/new-arrivals_pinkies_650.jpg

[Eagle402]

Glad rag,

Cheers for that but let us pray that your mention of 'high in the cruise' does not draw (like moth's to a flame) the gaggle of core icing argumentalists across from the G-YMMM thread especially as the more determined of them is from that Scandiwegia!

Imagine the scene :

AIIB (Geese Division) will now call Flying Officer Honk to give his evidence to the panel....the CVR shows that you were commanded by the Quacktain to feather the port engine after the FADUCKS appeared to malfunction just after you squawked FL150

I'm sure that the usual suspects on here can develop this in a much wittier style than myself....

Eagle

[airsound]

And don't forget they do those 'big battle' V-formations to save energy. Everyone except the leader is getting a bit of extra lift off the wingtip vortices of the one in echelon ahead. So apart from handing over the navigation, the leader is also taking a rest when he/she? hands over.

There was talk a while ago of transatlantic airliners doing the same thing to save fuel - ooer missus.

airsound

[aviate1138]

Wader 2 said....
"I have a pair of pigeons outside my office using a dense bush as a nesting site for the second year running. They have actually created a runway but like Gibraltar the winds on approach are variable.

A landing usually includes a steep 40 degree approach with starboard wing fold just beofre touchdown. Aerodynamic and arrested braking is achieved with the left wing fully spread and engaging on the branches to the left.

They then back up slightly, complete wing fold, and then taxi into the hangar "


Aviate adds...
My office door plus bird seed device. Squirrels are not welcome.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k35/beejaviate/Pigeonpath.jpg

Pigeon Flight path, red and arrival at a red X. Wind change - blue.
Pigeon tumble spot - green

Well my pigeons like to nick the small birds seed [if they can] by approaching as per the pic but the other day the winds were swirly and just as one pigeon made his approach, the wind swirled and he was suddenly downwind and he swivelled into wind and tried the big two wing airbrake/harrier megaflap but stalled in an untidy tumbling heap. A second later he made a brilliant recovery and sped off as if nothing had happened. But I saw it, just didn't have a camera to hand.

[Exnomad]

The funniest sight I remember was when walking from the mess to the airfield at Bishops Court many years ago, when a gull landed on telephone wires, and promptly fell off. the bird's language did not need any translation.

[Pontius Navigator]

We have a small lake maybe 80 yards long on 36/18. On the 36 overshoot is a strand of trees some 60-70 feet tall and only 20 yards beyond the lake. On the day in question an isolated pair of geese had made a successful landing on 36 but later decided to depart.

The male, clearly the flight commander (2-ship only) led the goose down the waterway. Unfortunately they took an excessively long take-off run and failed to gain sufficient height to clear the obstruction and had insufficient airspeed to execute a 180 turn down wing. There was only one possible course of action.

The honking from back to front had to be heard to be believed as they broke through the trees at barely 30 feet before continuing to climb to avoid the houses.

[Beeayeate]

Similar problem to aviate's here. Fat Albert pigeon would squat inside and gobble all the seed put out for the small birds. Strung some twine around all access points which caused FA to re-evaluate his landing somewhat quickly aborting at the last moment. Luckily I had my camera ready . . .

http://www.canberra.plus.com/pics/bird3.jpg

FA spent about an hour trying different approaches before giving up. Managed to get a whole sequence of shots. Well, I'm retired now and it was fun. :E


:ok:

[henry crun]

On the subject of our feathered friends, this is an impressive achievement for such a small bird. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/09/23/eabird23.xml

[exscribbler]

From the number of posts indicating clumsy flying by pigeons, it strikes me that there may be either a training issue at the OTUs or an equipment specification problem. This morning's display inclines me to the view that the fault lies with the OTUs in that the pilots are over-confident of the performance of their personal equipment and thus take too many risks. (Isn't that always the case?)

Back to the story. This morning, as I was making my first coffee, I noticed our resident wood pigeon (also Fat Albert - I wonder why?) making a rapid but short take-off from the lawn, having generously refuelled on the raisins put out for the blackbirds. He was a little too close to the garage for real comfort and consequently was trying very hard to gain altitude, presumably concentrating on clearing the garage roof. His acceleration was helped by the lawn's downward slope but that feature also meant that he needed more height. As he climbed out, it rapidly became obvious that he was going to be very close to another fixed obstacle in the form of the washing line which he would have to fly over if he was to clear the garage. Flying beneath was not an option as not even his formidable TOGA power would enable him to avoid the brickwork.

Although for safety reasons the washing line is orange in colour, hit it he did, despite deploying airbrake and undercarriage and attempting a 180-degree stall turn to return to the runway. He caught the line somewhere around his starboard wingroot and, completely losing control, crashed heavily behind the garage. On investigating, I found him to be undamaged except in the dignity area and shaking his head, Albert took off downwind, landing carefully in a tree to attend to his flying surfaces and thank Our Lady of Loreto... :ok:

[ACW599]

Not remotely wishing to hijack the thread -- mods please move if required -- but what's the highest anyone's ever encountered a bird? Any advance on buzzards at about 3,500ft?

[cats_five]

I've seen Alpine Choughs at the top of the Aiguille Midi in France (3,800m). They nest up there safe from predators, fly down into the valleys to feed in the morning and then ride the thermals back up to their nests. They are also a very attractive bird with a striking metallic clatter of a voice.

However that's far below the record. If you do a Google for 'bird flight records' you find the following:

http://www.earthlife.net/birds/records.html

"Highest recorded flight = Ruppell's Griffon Vulture Gyps ruepellii recorded flying at 11,277m/37,000ft, at this height human beings would die from lack of air."

Now I've no idea if this is a good source or not, but I've heard that some species migrate over the Himalayas, and also that migrating swans have been seen at very high altitudes to the NW of the UK.

The new trend to follow bird migration by fitting some birds with minature GPS receivers might shed more light over the coming years.

[aviate1138]

DC-10 Bay of Biscay FL 280 one migrating goose in centre engine 1993