West Africa Ops

[westafricaops]

I am working with a group that is studying the feasibility of starting an operation in West Africa.
I am trying to formulate a budget. Any answers to the following questions would be of great help.

1. What would a Licensed Dispatcher require (money) to relocate to West Africa to operate a Dispatch Office for a start up operator?

2. Fuel (Jet A-1) prices in any of the major cities in West Africa (Dakar to Yaounde)?

3. Landing Fees and over flight charges for the same?

4. For flight planning purposes, what is the hourly fuel consumption and airspeed in knots of the following;

B737-300 # of seats for single class (all economy) seating?
B767-200ER # of seats for 2 class (business & economy) configuration?
ATR-42 # of seats for single class configuration?
Dash 8 # of seats for single class configuration?

4. Average AMI lease rates for the above?

Many Thanks in advance!

[no sig]

westafricaops

Can I offer a bit of advice; firstly, if you are doing a budget/proposal for a commerical operation then you are well advised to discover this type of information for yourself. I doubt if the investors in this venture would wish you to source such cost cruical data off a forum such as this.

Consider the following:

Q1. Contact an agency such as Parc Air, Dublin and get a contract rate for an expereinced ops/flight dispatch manager to get some feel for your costs for personnel to set up your operations/dispatch- you need someone with considerable experience to do this.

Q2. Establish your destinations and alternates airports, contact the local fuel suppliers and ask them the question with respect to fuel supplies and costs, however, this might be OK for a budget but contracts with a supplier should be arranged by your finance people.

Q3. You obviously need to know what routes you will be operating on, the State's AIP's will probably give you an idea of charges, if it doesn't, then you'll need to contact airport authorities or DGCA agencies for the costs.

Q4. You might contact the manufacturer or the lease company for these data; alternatively, you might consider having a flight plannning company run you a series of route analysis over the routes you plan to fly to establish time/fuel/payload with seasonal winds/temps considered. Also, you will want to consider what block time averages you want to use for your study.

You will have to supply them with your configs, weights, fuel and alternate policies etc., they will guide you as to what information they need to run your studies. Consider airfield performance/seasonal temps as a potential limiting factor with respect to payloads.

Q5. You need to contact leasing companies direct for these costs, of if you are planning to lease aircraft in ACMI, then airlines who you might consider leasing from.

Hope the above helps.

[Lauderdale]

That was one hell of a detailed reply for what I thought was a rather cheeky post!

To the original poster: if you would make half the effort in finding out this kind of data as what nosig made in writing his post you would already have all the answers.

damn - I am becoming really grumpy in my old age!

:\

[westafricaops]

no sig,

westafricaops

Can I offer a bit of advice; firstly, if you are doing a budget/proposal for a commerical operation then you are well advised to discover this type of information for yourself. I doubt if the investors in this venture would wish you to source such cost cruical data off a forum such as this.

RESPONSE-I sincerely appreciate your advice. Yes, I am doing a budget/proposal to present to a possible investor. In the first month of the budget I have earmarked funds for a professional business plan. I hope and believe that any investor that would be willing to invest the large sum of money that it would take to kick this operation off would check all the facts and figures that I would present to them.

I can go on the net and look up a certain day, flight number and airport in the United States and I am able to find out how many passengers departed on that flight and if the flight was late. Those facts and figures that I need for West Africa are just not available on the net when I have tried to research that information. I tried to contact the Civil Aviation Authorities in most of the countries here in West Africa with poor response

Consider the following

Q1. Contact an agency such as Parc Air, Dublin and get a contract rate for an expereinced ops/flight dispatch manager to get some feel for your costs for personnel to set up your operations/dispatch- you need someone with considerable experience to do this.

RESPONSE-This is good advice. I will do as such.


Q2. Establish your destinations and alternates airports, contact the local fuel suppliers and ask them the question with respect to fuel supplies and costs, however, this might be OK for a budget but contracts with a supplier should be arranged by your finance people.

I do have destinations and routes established-the major cities in West Africa. I am not local so I do not know how to contact the fuel suppliers directly. What I was hoping is that someone that was just into say ACC or CKY could respond with something like,’ we were just through there the other day and we paid xx per liter’. I most definitely need this info to factor into a business plan with fuel being the biggest expense. I can always update the budget/business plan as more accurate data becomes available. I just need enough basic information to get an investor interested.

Q3. You obviously need to know what routes you will be operating on, the State's AIP's will probably give you an idea of charges, if it doesn't, then you'll need to contact airport authorities or DGCA agencies for the costs.

Like I said earlier, the local authorities just don’t respond like they would do in Europe or the US.

Q4. You might contact the manufacturer or the lease company for these data; alternatively, you might consider having a flight plannning company run you a series of route analysis over the routes you plan to fly to establish time/fuel/payload with seasonal winds/temps considered. Also, you will want to consider what block time averages you want to use for your study.

I most definitely have plans to have a flight planning company run base line flight plans. Currently, there is zero budget for this. I do have basic block times and fuel consumption established for a B737-200 already.

You will have to supply them with your configs, weights, fuel and alternate policies etc., they will guide you as to what information they need to run your studies. Consider airfield performance/seasonal temps as a potential limiting factor with respect to payloads.

As earlier-no money. With all the adjacent cities in West Africa less than two hours apart and in most cases less than one hour (B737) and with the airports at sea level I do not see performance being a big problem at this stage.

Q5. You need to contact leasing companies direct for these costs, of if you are planning to lease aircraft in ACMI, then airlines who you might consider leasing from.

I will. At this stage, I just need a basic figure to start with. The Internet here in West Africa is in a sorry state of affairs. I do not have the time or money to spend unlimited time on the net. As a result I am only able to access it about once a week. I can fill in some of the squares. I was hoping some of you other aviation professionals that have some of the answers in your heads or have easy access to the answers could help me out by filling in the other squares

Hope the above helps.

Yes, some of it does. Thanks.


That was one hell of a detailed reply for what I thought was a rather cheeky post!
To the original poster: if you would make half the effort in finding out this kind of data as what nosig made in writing his post you would already have all the answers.
damn - I am becoming really grumpy in my old age!

Mr Laderdale
You had no useful information in your post. This response does not help at all. I don’t know why you wasted your time in writing it and my time when I read it. Thanks.
This is the type of response that I would expect from my X-wife. In fact, that kind of reminds me why I divorced her in the first place!

[Lauderdale]

"Laderdale"??

Damn - did you make that mistake because your were thinking of your ex -wife?!

Rgds Lauderdale

PS - the reason for my comments is that a lot of what you enquiring about is quite easily established with a little research. For me the best people in aviation are those that are self determined and focused.

It just strikes me how many people on these forums just 'ask' and expect answers. Ask yourself this: "Where did the people who answer the questions get the knowledge from in the first place?"

Don't get me wrong - if you get stuck with anything in particular then all of us here would be more than willing to help!

[merlinxx]

Here, here. I doubt that anyone would rely on prune for this sort of investment, bloody cheeky request. Acft perf data & expertise is easily purchased, it's called investing in the future! If you ain't got the sosh now, you'll never have it! Knowledge is hard gained, and yes we as a community are happy to share, but not to such a detailed degree, we gained out knowledge to further our purchasing power, it ain't free!

Rant over, now where's the the NATs?

[westafricaops]

Sorry Mr. LAUDERDALE, my mistake.

“Damn - did you make that mistake because your were thinking of your ex -wife?!” Could of-she really winds me up at times.

“a little research?” Mate, I have spent hours in the triple digits in front of the computer doing research for this project and some of the data just isn’t available. If you can recommend some web sites that I have overlooked, I am all ears! I would prefer to do the research, firsthand, anyway. By the way, leasing companies just will not respond from hotmail or yahoo inquires. (Incidentally, I have budgeted an internet connection in my month one budget and a web site in my month two budget.)

YES, I AM STUCK! That is why I am asking the questions here. I have been in and out of Pprune for many years (under different screen names). I have responded to many inquires. I was hoping that there would be someone out there that would be willing to reciprocate! Did you read the part where I said, I currently do not have the funds available, but after I get an investors’ interest one of the first things I have budgeted for is a PROFESSIONAL Business Plan that will include RESEARCH & FACTUAL DATA. All I want now is some basic data to work out some basic information to present to a potential investor to deem this project is viable. Any potential investor will run the numbers himself to check the accuracy of my figures. Anyone that has traveled in West Africa knows that the system is broken and needs to be fixed. I just need the information to prove the point.


Mirlinxx,

Did you read my response carefully? I believe I said it was just BASIC information to get the interest of an investor. I can update it as I get more factual information. Also, I believe twice I said, CURRENTLY, I “ain’t got the sosh” to purchase this info and a lot the data on West Africa is not available on the Internet or anywhere else, for that matter, at any price. The information that I am requesting is just to get the interest of an investor. THEN, if I get the interest of an investor, I will have the “sosh” available to purchase the factual information by the way of a business plan.
Have you ever traveled in West Africa? I have. If you had you would know that ALL transportation systems here are in a sorry state of affairs. What flights there are are overpriced, overbooked, late, unsafe with numerous cancelations. The system needs help. It is very easy for one to sit in front of his computer and peck out a few righteous lines to entertain himself. I have been in aviation for over 25 years (military and commercial) moving heavies around the world, from the driver’s seat. I have between 14-15,000 hours in heavies (the largest part of that time in 18 wheelers). I have responded to dozens of post on this forum, under different handles (for personal reasons, at this time, I wish to remain ‘a bit anonymous’), and all for FREE. I am not wanting this information to make myself rich. If getting rich is what motivates me I would have gone with a major carrier years ago! In fact, the basic budget that I have started, I have budgeted for myself £1,000/mo for the first 6 months (doesn’t even cover my cost of living). All I am asking for is a small amount of information from different sources (I am assuming that no one person would have all the answers) that wouldn’t take any money out of your pocket or food out of your mouth. I would like to fix something that is broken. With an estimated 80% unemployment rate in parts of West Africa and the people that do have jobs making an average of £25/mo, I would like to put a few indigenous people to work, put some money in their pockets and food in their mouths. That’s all. If you don’t want to respond to the questions I am asking (as if you may know any of the answers), then don’t. I am not going to twist your arm.

Now, Mr. Mirlinxx, may I quote you? “Rant over, now where's the THE NATs?”

Oh ya, what exactly does, “bloody cheeky” mean, anyway?

Did you know that, “To support Economic Growth in Developing Countries there has to be, Education, Energy (Electricity), Communications and TRANSPORTATION”? Sounds good don’t it? I just made this up.

Regards,
Wes Afra
p.s. If there is anyone that does not wish to be belittled in this forum for responding to my questions and would like to correspond off-line, my e-mail address is; [email protected] ([email protected])

[Abdel]

westafricaops,

you say:
>>I have spent hours in the triple digits in front of the computer doing research for this project and some of the data just isn’t available.

You should review your research methods as they seem to be extremely innefective. Furthermore I get the impression you may be a student as I've seen many an assignment contain much the same questions, though I may be wrong.

Questions 1 -4 can be be easily answered with effective research online and the use of a phone and/or an email system.

Question 5 (which you labelled #4) will take some effort.

But God help you if you think I'm gonna tell you the answers (not that I know them - I haven't done any research) or even help you find the answers with your attitude....



>detailed aggressive response expected from you....don't let me down!

[Abdel]

Forgive me,

Questions 1-3 are easily researched online etc

Questions 4-5 require more effort

[westafricaops]

Another Heckler from the cheap seats!

OK, your impressions are correct. You caught me with my pants down and my winkie hanging out-I’m a student pilot.

You are correct my research methods are, “extremely innefective.”

“I've seen many an assignment contain much the same questions”. Sooooo, where are you doing your student time?

“But God help you if you think I'm gonna tell you the answers (not that I know them - I haven't done any research)” So, if you don’t know any answers why did you waste your time in making your post and waste my time when I had to read it?

You are also correct, I do have an aggressive attitude-it comes with the TYPE A personality!

Did I let you down?

Wes Afra

[salimedj]

hello i ve sent you an email on your personnal adress
have a look and then contact me

i speak french english spanish and arabic

it is my speciality to setup operations for start up airlines

if interested contact me

[Lauderdale]

Remind me not to get into an A/C anywhere around westafricaops AoO!!

With his professional skills and kind personality topped of with salimedj starting of the Flight Dispatch centre I think I might end up being in an approach at a faster rate then I would like (Nose down, 90 degrees!)

Hey ho Hum!

[westafricaops]

No problem!

Just send me your name by pm and I'll have you blacklisted.

Wes Afra

[Lauderdale]

Ooooooooooo!

I will save you the trouble and blacklist myself!

:E

[desertopsguy]

I thought this was about starting an airline??? Or have I missed something..

[westafricaops]

D.O.G.

You are 100% correct!

I think I made a mistake by asking too many questions all at once.

Got a handle on the fuel burn for the -8 now and I believe I may have some info on-the-way concerning a -8 lease.
Spoke to my finance guys again today-they are giving nothing but positive indicators.

Wes Afra
p.s. did you get my e-mail a couple of days ago?