EFT European Flight Training OWES ME MY REFUND

[737hustler]

Fellow aviators,

With no sight of a refund due from EFT (European Flight Training, Ft Pierce, Florida) since September last year :ugh:, I intend on putting together a class action lawsuit to recoup the money owed by them.

From previous posts, I know there are a few others who may still be owed money, so I would like to get in contact with you to gauge how many individuals, advise costs, and detail the next steps.

Please get in touch with me by email or PM so I can move this forward.

Happy flying

73-H

[quackers]

Are EFT (European Flight Training) still operating? I have tried in vain to get a response, both by phone and email for some weeks now. Is there anybody training there at the moment?? Thanks

[737hustler]

Just as an updated for those interested:

Contacted:
Florida States Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Tallahassee
Civil Aviation Authority, UK

Both areas have acknowledged and have said they will be contacting EFT shortly, I will post any details.

73H

[Hufty]

I hope EFT haven't gone under...they are a good bunch. Trevor and Ben are reasonable guys....I would expect that if there was a genuine problem with a customer they would deal with it unless of course there is a problem with their business...

[737hustler]

For anyone chasing their money, send me a pm and I can advise you of the caa contact who is looking after this. The more evidence that is received, the quicker this can be resolved - only an email summary is needed with the details of the amount owed to you.

73 H

[7574ever]

Hufty,

It is not a matter of a problem with A customer, it is pretty much a problem with ALL the customers. Most people who where over there during the last quarter in 2007 never got a refund, which due to their accounting policy everybody requires, minum 500$. Needless to say, a lot of them never even got their ratings.

Ben is almost never at the school, only saw him 2 or 3 times over 3 months, Trevor is following the same path, only came to the office 2 or 3 times a week. They both have more important (airline) jobs now.

I just hope they don't get anybody else to rip off!

[portsharbourflyer]

It should in theory almost be impossible for EFT to go bankrupt or under because it a very clever business plan. Lease planes from the FAA school next door on an hourly basis and then charge a premium on top for the JAA approved training. Instructors paid flight pay only, the only fixed overhead is the full time secretary and a little bit of Office space. Capital investment from the "owners" I would assume must be very minimal. As a result if it did go under it wouldn't have much consequence to the "owners".

EFT is not a flying school in its own right; it is in reality an address with a JAA approval, so very easy for the owners to close it down if required.

[BigGrecian]

Running a JAA school is actually pretty expensive.

Those fees you paid to the CAA? Imagine those only a lot lot lot larger! :eek:

[portsharbourflyer]

Fair point Big Grecian, that is something I have overlooked but it is still the case there is no capital asset associated with EFT. A very useful situation to have when running a business.

[Keygrip]

Monster - I had to pull that message off for various reasons. Awaiting words from higher up than I.

I accept that *you* were not making the accusations, you were relaying them.

Work with me! Give me time.

[Mordacai]

To all posters, please use the word alledgedly.

I am absolutely sure you will all get your refunds, please be patient, as you have all been to date.

[Keygrip]

What's the interest %age rate on patience, M?

If these are loans - they are expensive to be patient with.

[7574ever]

May I also remind you that, as per contract clause, our refunds were to be issued within 30 days of disenrolment?? It's been more like 200 in my case...

Patience has a limit.
Regards.

[737hustler]

Alledgedly, EFT were going to get me through my course in a couple weeks. Yeah, Right. Alledgedy, my instructor was going to provide me with a date to take my cpl skills test, maybe even get in touch and let me know if the only cpl aircraft was fixed. Yeah right. Alledgedly, I was going to get my money back in October 2007. Yeah right. My patience is all gone, I'm sick of dealing with companies that only "alledgedly" do what they advertise. Nothing personal at you I.P. (mordacai) but you've summarized exactly what is true - that EFT is alledgedly a flying school. My personal allegation that is, but there are plenty of unhappy customers who will give you their own "allegations"

[Privatairdreaming]

These cowboys still owe me $5000, I had Trevors word that he would make sure I got my refund over 4 months ago. Now my emails dont get replies and the phone does not get answered. To say trevor is a reverend he lies all the time. I hope that I will get the money back but they part that is really starting to annoy me if that he still has not sent me my course notes and therefore I can not continue my training in the UK without having to do the full course again.
Trevor told me that it was in my best interest to leave my money with him at EFT as it can get "lost" in the post.
I dont understand why people are still going to these cowboys.
There was many occasions when I would be stood in the office looking at my course notes and the telephone girl would answer the phone and tell the prospective students that they would get a PPL done in 3 weeks and a CPL done in 2 weeks. As you can imagine this got some strange looks from the current students as we had been in florida for 3 and a half weeks and only done 12hrs flying on our CPL course.

BEWARE!!!!!!

[dapilot6]

I say beware also!

They owe me money, and this money I need to continue training elsewhere after they did not get my ratings done as promised.

I only saw Trevor twice during my 3 week stay. Never did I see him fly. No instructors except 2, and they 5-7 studentsa each. They tried to hand me off to an FAA instructor. Is this allowed? And when it came time for me to leave, nobody was there to sign my paperwork or log book. The gal in the office did it, and signed Trevor's name. Anybody else have this issue?

And again, no refund. Just excuses.

[Irish_Stu]

I too am awaiting a refund of my flying account from EFT. I'm in two minds though whether the legal / CAA route will have the desired effect.

The way I see it, the only way that anyone is going to get a refund is if EFT continues to operate as a business. Pursuing legal action is more likely to push EFT towards closing it's doors. CAA action may do the same. End result in both scenarios = Kiss goodbye to any refunds.

I think EFT is a good school, but has been through a rough patch recently, mainly due to issues outside their control. I was reasonably happy with what I received at EFT. The instruction was of a high standard, and although I didn't fly as much as I thought I would, it was still a lot of fun.

I am still hopeful that I'll get my refund, I hope I'm not proved wrong.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I post these comments mostly because I want to refer back to this thread over the next 30 years.


Skimping on basic flying training fees by choosing an obscure flying school in another country is one of the WORST but most COMMON mistakes wannabes make.


In those first 45hrs the foundations of flying are laid. Like a house. If the foundations are iffy it doesn't matter how grand the kitchen is - the house is rubbish. A cheap Instrument Rating is far preferable to a cheap PPL course. On the 2hr IR test you might have a nice day a relaxed examiner and an easy route - your cheap training will have got you a first time pass.

Do a good PPL course. At a localish school. Tell them you are planning on going commercial. They will invest time and effort into you as a result and as many have a reputation to defend they will make sure you don't find yourselves so disgruntled as to be organising law suits on PPRuNe.

WWW

[nich-av]

WWW, I don't think it' s correct to state, though indirectly, that foreign schools give less good training quality just because one single school has problems paying refunds to their students.

Accountants/managers and instructors are totally different divisions.

If someone ows you money, and you don't get it, you sue...asap.

[BigGrecian]

To be fair no one has criticised the standard of instruction at EFT.

Nearly all have said that it's of a high standard. Especially given the majority of their instruction is towards Commercial and IRs.

I wish the same could be said of the majority of the PPLs arriving over there from the UK though....

The issue seems to be with the refunds from a bad patch the school went through...

[dapilot6]

It's the LACK of instruction being done. When you are told to come over for a CPL, 3 weeks long if you have enough hours, but there is no instructor or airplanes for you, that is lack of instruction. Flying only 12 hours in 3 weeks is absurd. And then, when you need your monies returned so you can continue your training elsewhere, you don't get it as promised.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Where's the thread suggesting people feel the need to sue a UK flying school?

Of the bitching I hear about flying schools a wholly disproportionate of it relates to foreign flying schools. Most often in the US.

Cheap and cheerful has its place. I just don't think the foundations of your training (the PPL) is the place to trim costs. Just as I think the high fees from the fanciest schools buy you no better training just slicker marketing.

The middle of the road is the sweet spot. Keep Florida for hours building and you can't go far wrong. Is my advice.

Or do these cheap PPL courses now feature flying instructors with >1000hrs instructional experience who have a sound knowledge of the JAA skilltests? They didn't used to.

WWW

[Matthew Adams]

Hmm actually the instructors at the school all have well over 1500 hours and were all JAA qualified before FAA qualified and over 95% of their instruction is towards JAA licences mainly at Commercial level.

[EK4457]

I think WWW is being generic in his comments. If EFT have got top draw JAR instructors, then I would guess that they are in the minority when it comes to US JAR FTO's. Some even guarantee a skills test pass for goodness sake!

As far as EFT themselves go, their behaviour is outrageous if the allegations are true. No matter how good the instructing is. An eperienced instructor is no use at all if he isn't there / has no aircraft / is overbooked etc...

To coin a phrase, at the end of the day, you pays your money and takes your choice. If you take the risk (and it is a risk) of paying up front and going abroad to a school you have only seen on the internet in order to save one or two grand, then there MAY be a downside. In this case it was the money. It could have been anything.

My advise to anyone reading this yet to start their training: Never pay up front and always visit the FTO before you start training. Very simple stuff which could have helped the poor sods on this thread.

I hope you get you cash back ASAP and use it more wisely in the future.

Ready for the onslaught :p

EK

[nich-av]

Where's the thread suggesting people feel the need to sue a UK flying school?

Of the bitching I hear about flying schools a wholly disproportionate of it relates to foreign flying schools. Most often in the US.


Let's keep it correct. The schools we usually hear about are UK flight schools located in the U.S. These schools are often managed by English managers, by the way.

Now, if it is cheaper in the U.S., it's not because they cut back on quality but because operational costs are lower. Just look at the Avgas prices which are more than twice as high in the UK. Landing taxes are inexistent, maintenance costs lower in the US.

Though management seems to be shaky at some of these US-based UK FTO's, the quality of instruction overall looks pretty good.

[nh2301]

Actually the school is desperately trying to recruit anyone with an FAA instructor ticket, no experience required. They're advertising on US forums, although pay is still below average for the area.

[civil aviation]

The allegation from (not at all) silent witness that the letter from an 'Ian Tinmurth' and published by Pilot refers to OBA has been refuted by them.
Is this the clue?:
'They said they would refund me the difference, which was around $2,500. This was in October I’m still being told the money’s in the post some 20 phone calls later.'
I mention the above simply because it does resemble the allegation(s) in the current thread about EFT (not OBA).
One does not want to undermine the theraputic benefits which a few madmen seem to believe they derive from their obsessive criticism of OBA and obviously paranoid observations about its owner. However, in fairness to all, we need to know who is lying.
Can anyone verify that an 'Ian Tinmurth' exists and, if so, where he trained?

[dapilot6]

Yes, Ian Tinmurth is real. I met him at EFT. He is owed, as am I.

[ian1002]

Charlotte at Eft told me that my refund should be $2489.70 after not completing my training in September 2007 due to lack of instructors, poor weather and broken down aeroplanes. My I20 came in the the name of Ari Ben Aviator, and not in the name of European Flight Training but I did my training with EFT. I have spoken to EFT many times but to no avail, my cheque as been in the post twice! It was alledged last week by someone at EFT that there was an embezzlement case on going and that EFT had no money.
I have informed the consumer association of Florida at www.800helpfla.com (http://www.800helpfla.com) along with the CAA. I suggest that everyone who is owed money should inform the relevant authorities, hopefully this will make them take action against EFT.

[HighKings Drifter]

EFT owe me solo hours that i prepaid for and are remaining as part of a package including the PPL night-rating and hour-building. I haven't got back there yet to fly off the remaining hours. From all i've heard over the past several months, i'd rather get a refund of the money's worth instead of going back there.
Is anyone else in this situation, and if so did they get their money back? Contact me by pm or email if it suits.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Do you see why I advise basic training is best conducted at a school within 100 miles of home who have been in business for >5yrs and who have a good reputation?


Year after year people come here bitching about how cheap and usually foreign basic flying training has not met expectation.


WWW

[Julian]

Indeed, just because a flight school is foreign does not mean it is going to be rubbish, I have dealt with some pretty ropey UK based schools - but you learn and move on!

If you are going to drop a large amount of cash into a school then do your homework and visit if you can. if the school is abroad and a visit is out of the question then ask ex-students, use a board such as Pprune to ask around, quiz the school itself. And never pay up front!!!!!!

Using the word 'cheap' in the sense its being portrayed along with 'rubbish' is misleading - the reason foreign flight schools, such as the US, are good value at the moment is that the £ is pretty strong at the moment, exceptionally strong against the $.

J.