Just a question, I am intending to do my degree in aeronautical engineering while doing my CPL on the side. so lets say I graduate at the end of the 4 years with a ATPL and 250 hours and i apply to a minor carrier....Would they give preference to US residents over foreign nationals with the same qualifications?

The problem is the "green card". I you have authorization to work in the US you will find a job. Suggest you get your instructor ratings while you are at it. Which engineering school do you plan on attending?

What school are you going to?

Where are you going to do that? You need 1500 hours.

Mesa just lowered their minimums to 500TT and 100ME.

What Rock On said was true! You need to have a 'green-card' inorder for you to work in U.S..

Let's face the reality. The US carriers are very-very-very unlikely to employ foreigners!

US companies will not sponsor or apply work VISA for any foreigners! Even if there is a lack of pilot, they will not get in any foreign pilots unless they are US PR!

There are many qualified pilots (e.g. flying instructors) in Asia who certainly like to work in US for low pay but the problem do not lies on them. The employers are not opening doors for these cheap labours (foreign flying instructors)!

name deleted from Delta Connection Academy and name deleted from Sierra Academy of Aeronautics, both replied that they are unable to sponsor work VISA for foreigners (note: these foreigners hold FAA ATP, CFI/CFII/MEI)! These flying academies already telling us that even if there's flying instructor shortage, they will have the ability to resolve their own issue. They do not rely on foreign instructor!

So, never ever bring up the issue of foreign pilots working for US carriers. It can never happen from now.:=

To Effee,

I suppose you are extremely rich to do a 4 years Engineering Degree as well as a CPL! Let me estimate, it should cost you more than SGD250K!

1) Are you sure you can get an FAA ATP in 4 years while you are studying?

2) Do you have the time while studying?

3) Do you think you can work as a FI while studying? You will be sacked from the University and exptraited from US immediately once you are caught! Worst come to worst, your FAA licence might be revoked. Even if you are able to work as a FI, who dares to employ you holding a student VISA!

thornycactus: Take it easy pal. you won´t get anywhere with that attitude.

Regarding the work visa, yes i agree with you, NOONE will "SPONSOR" you for such visa, much less for a green card. We all know that.

However you are looking at the wrong horizon. Almost all the big academies, are authorized to issue a J-1 VISA, which as you may know, is a student visa valid for up to 2 years AND it gives you the RIGHT to WORK in the FIELD of STUDY.

In other words. you get a J-1 Visa and yes you can legally work as a flight instructor, in the school you trained or in any other(after doing a little paperwork). And no academy will tell you they won´t give you a J-1 VISA.

So what´s the catch? well pretty easy. YES you need to study during that time, maybe more ratings, maybe the university. but you can work in the same field...(the downside of that visa is you can´t renew, and you need to stay 2 years in your homecountry before reapplying, unless you want a F-1 visa for 4 years)

Now, this is the only legal way to work in USA today, because unless you marry a citizen (and sometimes that doesn´t even work) it will be hard at best, impossible at worst to get a green card.

that´s the way it is, and we all have to accept it.

here to help you..

I'm holding a Swedish and Iranian passport with no greencard and I work in US as a flight instructor LEGALLY!!! How, I'm on a F1 visa status. F1 visa will allow you to work on campus and my universtiy has a flight programm and thats where I work, which is on campus. I will be graduating end of May so I'm legall to work untill then, only on campus. I'm hoping to have 900tt by then. After my graduation I'm allowed to apply for my OPT (Optional Practical Training), which means I have the right to work anywhere in US legally for one year. But it has to be related to my field (pilot). I'm hoping to see if I can get to regionals with my OPT. The regionals are hurting bad so how knows. If not, I can go to a part 135. But I really hoping to go to Middle East and fly, the pay is much better.

The US airlines will never ever sponsor anyone for H1B, NEVER EVER. Even in late 60's when they were facing a BIG BIG pilot shortage, they never issued one.

Also somone said (don't want to mention any name) that they never hire muslims in US!!! Please do some research before you say something. So, how come they hired me as a Flight Instructor!!!!!:hmm: and what about Mesa, Pinnacle, American Eagle airlines that have flight crew that are muslim arabs and iranians.

Good luck to all :ok:

"and what about Mesa, Pinnacle, American Eagle airlines that have flight crew that are muslim arabs and iranians."


You might add that in the US they are also free to practice their religion openly, unlike Christians, Jews, Buddists, etc, in many Muslim countries.

Roadtrip,

I'm sure that you can practice christianity in sevaral countries in Middle East. I speak for Iran, because that is the only country I have been in Middle east. 2-3% of iranian population are Christians and we have churches in Iran and they practice their religion. I'm sure in United Arab Emirated, Bahrain, and Qatar they have churches and a lot of good Christians live and work there and practice their religion peacfully.

Hope this educate you about middle east.

Effee:
Your biggest hurdle is getting the right to work (green card). Once that is done, you have just as much right as the next person to get a job you apply for, if qualified. Employers in the US cannot deny you a job because of citizenship, they know that.
Sponsorship for aviation jobs doesn't happen here. There are lots of pilots and company's don't want to bother with that.
I work for a very small airline and about 10% of the pilots here have green cards, and close to a third are naturalized like me. There are foreign pilots flying for jetblue, usair, united, american. I would guess all are applying for naturalization when eligible, but they had green cards and worked as airline pilots.
The US isn't like many other countries in which you have to be a national or just work under contract. That is illegal here.

I am a greencard holder and in the past was offered a job with a regional airline. However took a corporate job(better money)

I dont know about the Majors, but the regionals dont seem to care..

Christians free to exercise their religion in Iran? YGBSM. Christians and other have been severely persecuted and most have fled the country. The Christian population is more like 4 tenths of a percent now compared to 1.5% before the "Islamic Revolution." I guess that's why I know so many Iranians that have fled to the US.
Christian services cannot be conducted in Farsi.
Christians must have special ID cards to attend church.
Meetings only on Sunday and no other day.
All new members of a Christian church must be reported to the Ministry of Information and Islamic Guidance.
Cannot sell a Bible in Iran.
Apostasy illegal with severe penalties . . . like death.
Severe penalties for Muslim converts to Christianity . . like death.
Churches are being systematically shut down.
Oh, yea. The theocracy in Iran is a real bastian of freedom and truth. Of course, you probably think that those Brit sailors that were taken hostage, were in Iranian waters too, at least in the second set of coordinates that the Iranians gave when they figured out their first lie was a mistake.

Roadtrip,

This forum is not for religous and political discussiones.
Try this website

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/

Amin:
A Captain flying jets with a US regional airline rode on 'my' jumpseat about one year ago. He is from Egypt and he told me that his name is Mohammed. He was a nice guy. An airline can not reject you because of religion etc, and should not.

If a gentleman or lady has the personal characteristics desired by an airline, and also has a competitive background, they should be considered as much as anybody else. My company has about twelve foreign pilots who I have chatted with. A South African, two Swedes, two from the Caribbean islands, German, Dutch, English, French, etc.

On another note, be aware that some comprehensive aviation programs, even those which the ultimate goal 'allowing' you to fly a few months in a Beech-1900 might not operate where you will accumulate valuable instrument time, i.e. Florida.
That means that a new pilot might not yet have enough of an instrument approach 'foundation' to keep up with the required training/checking syllabi on a glass-c0ckpit jet which operates into DTW, MKE, LGA, IAH etc. This training heartbreak happened to a guy who went fom a B-1900 in Florida to a class for the CRJ. One of the Instructors told me the story, and the guy had spent a large sum of money for the ratings and his first FO job (Gulfstream Airlines B-1900 FO). The regional training, glass c0ckpit or not, is quite intense and this might be the most difficult challenge.

Good luck over there/over here.

PS: My FO on the last trip is from Helsinki, Finland. He began his ratings in Texas and then flew floatplanes in the nasty humid swamps of southern Louisiana.

I used to be an instructor on the CRJ and some of my best students were guys from Gulfstream. I'm not promoting the program, just presenting my own personal observations. We had a class come through training that was mostly made up of gulfstream guys and they all did exceptionally well in training. I found their instrument skills to be very good.

(And now back on topic)

There are many greencard holders working for US Airlines, there is no reason why an airline would give preference to a US Citizen over a permanent resident, I have worked at 3 airlines, all of whom hire foreign nationals. I'm not saying you won't run into prejudices and obstacles at some places but if you do just keep looking

Amin:

I am a Canadian PR very soon I will get my Canadian Citizen. I have FAA ATP. I have 3000 hrs plus flying experience. I was a Captain in Dash-8 aircraft. I have 1000 P1 plus hrs in Dash-8 a/c. I also have P1 hours in Cessna Caravan. I did my simulator in Wichita, USA.
I would like to get aviation jobs in USA. What should be the best way for me to approach under these circumstances.

Thanks in advance.

please, don't believe some arrogant students telling there are plenty of jobs in the USA, and some airlines will sponsor you for a work permit.

if it was the case, most EU pilots would go to the USA and there would be a big shortage of EU pilots in Europe.

usually this kind of stories come from unexperimented students(0-200h) who have no commercial license, and who have been brainwashed by their flight school.

Believe the "looks too good to be true".

QUOTE WEASILThere are many greencard holders working for US Airlines, there is no reason why an airline would give preference to a US Citizen over a permanent resident, I have worked at 3 airlines, all of whom hire foreign nationals. I'm not saying you won't run into prejudices and obstacles at some places but if you do just keep looking


Weasil...well said mate!!! been here for years,never had any problems....have always been given the same treatment a the locals.....in fact better treatment than downunder.....the "ol boy" network here is not as "alive and well" as it is there and I can only say good things about the way in which Ive been treated......have had a greenie for over 25 yrs.......it has for sure been a lot harder since 9/11......but hey ,if youve got nothing to hide.... PB

thanks for all your responses!

Effee

I noticed your location is Singapore. Why don't you apply for SIA instead? Why would you want to fly a turboprop or RJ in a foreign land where you can get a direct entry job on a heavy in your home country?

Amin:
Why are you holding 2 passports? Tell us, which one has the F1 visa? Swedish or Iranian? Obviously this is not only political, it involves aviation security and for others, religion.
Are just another one taking advantage of the great benefits of the infidel west?

Amin:
Last question on previous post....Are you just another one.....? Hope you don't do the usual, I mean, hide.

What is TN work status? Is that some kind of work visa like a H1?

Say you have experience and want to fly corporate, would a company in the U.S. sponsor a Canadian with FAA licences?

Hi Newty82,

On which occupation field you got TN Visa? Is TN visa transferrable? Can TN visa issued on Information Technology (Computer Analyst) field be transferred to Aviation occupation field?

Hi there,

I understand that airlines will hire foreign nationals with greencards, however, I am about to find myself in the position where I shall be applying for the greencard, however, I understand that it is a long drawn out process. Whilst it is in process, the INS grant you the right to stay, work and travel, does anyone know if that status is enough to satisfy the regionals?

Thanks very much

Chris

You have to apply for an employment authorization card.

Thank you for your reply.

With the employment authorization card, would a regional airline offer you employment, or would I require a full greencard?

Thanks

An employment authorization card is all you need.

What I want to know is why foreigners go to fly for american airlines? Wouldn't all be to much hassle if yout hink about it. Not only do you need a four year degree, you need a bucket full of hours to get any notice and you have to go through the hassle of getting a green card and such.

Whereas here in Europe you dont need a degree and you could have 250 hours and end up flying around a 737/a230. Im not driving people away from the US, I would love to fly for an airline there but I am of an Irish nationality so there's no point going through all the effort because getting your hours hard enough :ugh:

The thing is, don't you need UK residency as well to work there with JAA license ?

I have 2,000 hrs TT ( 1700 ME ) and about to pay for my A320 TR but I think they'll just ignore me as I have an ICAO lic. and no residency.

Tough luck I guess. :ugh: Would've loved to work in UK.



8BAll

Do foreigners need a four year degree aswell? Im doing a four year apprentice....would this count?

How long does it take for a greencard to come through? Can I do my training and instructing on a work visa while waiting for a greencard?

I presume you have to stay in the US for a number of years before you get the card right?

Of course you need a 4 year degree in most airlines, apprenticeship does not exist in the US. So you need first a High School Equivalency (GED) or TOEFL test, then you can join a college or university. You can do a 4 year degree in Professional Aeronautic for example at Embry Riddle University were you will graduate as a Commercial pilot. You can get a visa to study and work as an instructor afterwards.
A green card will be however very difficult to get as a pilot. Since there is still an overcapacity INS will not accept your application. The only way is marriage :}

What am I gonna do......sh$t money ot my a$$ for embry? lol

Yes, you can train and then flight instruct on a visa. Most of the bigger schools will assist with that. If you want to find out what it takes to apply for a greencard check out the web at www.uscis.gov they have all that info on there.

Hi, In response to why I do not choose to fly for my own national airline, Singapore Airlines needs all cadets for direct entry to be 26 and above. They do not consider anyone under 26. the basis for this is so that we have enough pilots for our airforce.

I am currently 21, no way i'm waiting 5 years to get into commercial, and i will not be accepted into the airforce due to wearing glasses.

Anyway, I have decided to pursue flight training in Canada.

Thanks for your replies all.

Hi, In response to why I do not choose to fly for my own national airline, Singapore Airlines needs all cadets for direct entry to be 26 and above. They do not consider anyone under 26. the basis for this is so that we have enough pilots for our airforce. I am currently 21, no way i'm waiting 5 years to get into commercial, and i will not be accepted into the airforce due to wearing glasses. Anyway, I have decided to pursue flight training in Canada.

I met some RSAF high ranking pilot officers (LTC and COL rank) in an occasion (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3348093&postcount=3). These guys were telling me that SIA does not really take in RSAF pilots (even with beautiful thousands of flying hours in heavyjet & etc).

For those pilots of age over 40, SIA used to carry-out “old-man” scheme which SIA absorbed them. Unfortunately, they do not do it now. The scheme had been phased-off years ago. Those younger RSAF pilots (less than 40 years of age) (with thousands of flying hours in heavyjet & etc) who do not wish to continue their RSAF contract had to seek employment elsewhere and SIA rejected them.

Do you know where do these RSAF pilot ended?:ugh:

SIA is so famous absorbing the Malaysians (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3348093&postcount=3)! SIA should be only air-operator in the world that offers and trains foreign cadets (from ab-intio stage). They trained foreigners rather than own Singaporeans to be pilots! Right now, SIA is recruiting Indian nationals from India! Seats are already reserved to the India-national Indians. Next, by examining closely at the SIA cock-pit crew employment statistic, more than 60% of the pilots are Malaysians!

Do you know where do these rejected (purely breed and raised in Singapore) Singaporean applicants for cadet/first officer position ended?:ugh:

Other countries’ national air carrier has been protecting their own citizens. These non-Singapore air-operators (Cathay Pacific, MAS, Thai Airways, United Airlines, Korean Air, Air India, Air Asia and etc) have been training their own citizens. What about SIA? Do you know that SIA has been training non-Singaporean pilots all the while? And do you think Singaporeans will be “protected” in their own national carrier cock-pit employment?

Nobody (Singaporeans) has ever raised this issue and has been keeping quiet all the while.:ugh:

Anyway, I wish you can finish your CPL training in Canada. It is a beautiful place! Canadians are nice people! :ok:

Was too engrossed in replying.

Could you kindly move my reply to the SE Asia forum. Thanks

(post moved, Weasil)

Cougar77, let you win. I can say my source is reliable.:)

Here's one of the reasons foreigners want to fly in the states.
I don't know about other countries but this is what goes around here in South America.
I was born in Brazil but raised in the states. I am a greencard holder. After 9/11 we all know aviation was bad in the states and in the world. I moved back here to fly a320s. Wow. Flying an airbus at the age of 26 and making good money was really good. While my friends were "starving" in the states flying for the regionals, I was finally flying a decent airplane. Most of them envied me but deep inside I knew they were better off than I was. I just didn't want to admit it. After 6 months it all started to sink in. The airline is run worse than an FBO in the states. No CRM at all. Most captain have an attitude problem and they can't even say hello in English, but they think they rule the skies, crappy schedules( I still don't know what I am doing on the first of July), people getting bypassed everyday and the list goes on and on. Even the pay doesn't keep me happy anymore. With all of this in mind, I am contemplating on taking a big pay cut and going back to the US to fly for the regionals. Yes, people may think that I am crazy, specially knowing that in less than 6 months I will be flying the A330 or the A340(provided I don't get bypassed by someone who knows somebody upstairs) but I just can't take it anymore. Flying in the states is good. The schedules and the days off, choice of base, equipment etc.... You have to experience it somewhere else in order to value what you had before.
I think that is why so many foreigners want to fly in the states. Just my .02 cents..........

RL

where you guys been???? there are thosands of foreigners working for airlines in america.....you kidding.....right to work in america???? everyone has the right to work, i know you need some visa, well that is not hard to get.....try to go work in another country as an american.......wont happen....be nice if we started protecting our own like the rest of the world.......yes, done the expat thing worked in europe, asia and other locations.....why you ask, probably cause so many foreigners in my country taking our jobs....no problem with the foreigners my problem is with the government that lets it happen.....if i could work in their country the same way i would be fine......rg

NewDawn

You do write some utter tosh...

"right to work in america???? everyone has the right to work in america???? i know you need some visa, well that is not hard to get....."

I'm married to a US national and am looking at 1 year plus with no guarantees that I'll get a Green Card ( UK national )...

" try to go work in another country as an american.......wont happen"

Followed shortly by...

"yes, done the expat thing worked in europe, asia and other locations "....

Don't know what you're on but it must have a pretty high street value.

Could anyone tell me whether there are any Scandinavian pilots at CO's EWR base?

Thank you,
QRC22B

Don't know about that, but there are at least a couple at Jet Blue's JFK base.

Hi

I know a couple of norwegians on the 757 with EWR base....

RGDS

And any Swedes?

^^^
Good question. I know one Norwegian and one Finn. I'd think there is a Swede or two lurking around there somewhere.

Hej,

A few at UAL

varigflyer,
Interesting post - just wondering, with your A320 time could you not get employed by the likes of JetBlue, Frontier, Northwest or any other 320 operators in the US, rather than the 'regionals'?

skywaytoheaven,

I am trying to do that and that is my first option but it seems like it's easier to get on with a regional since I don't have the turbine PIC that most majors require and I don't know how much longer I can put up with all of this crap. I guess only time will tell.......

I agree "poorwanderingwun" NewDawn has no clue, no idea on how difficult it can be to get even a "students visa".

Don't tell me NewDawn, is that what yer mate told ya? Or maybe you heard somewhere? Yeah yeah like most times........rumours not facts.

Go do some research......

Bye!

G'day
Just toying with the idea of making a change.
I have an Australian CPL(A) Multi IR, and 800hrs TT ( Cessna 200 series time) a low level approval and, Australian ATPL theroy

What are the chances of picking up work over there?

Im 26 so what will that mean in terms of VISA's etc?

Any info would be welcome.

Cheers
Maiden.

(thruth be told, you guys just get all the good bands on tour.. they never come here! hence the need to relocate.)

PS if anyone is interested in some Low Level work here in our summer PM me, my old boss is looking for some pilots.

What if I want a job in Oz???

Looking for a job swap Iron???

Check your PMs mate. :ok:

Iron Maiden,

Yeah, you need a green card to work here. Don't take it out of context but it really doesn't matter what country you come from, as long as ur not Muslim you wont have any trouble getting a job here. We pretend to treat everyone as equals but you'll figure out shortly after you get here that's a big load of bum scoop.

But otherwise most US airlines gonna be pretty desperate for pilots in the next year or so. With a green card ur pretty much in the club and u can apply anywhere you want to (best of luck to you). I think your Aussie accent will get you far though, working here just depends on how much initiative you want to take in doing the research & filling out the visa apps.

Here's an idea for ya, I've been wrong before so do your research but I think guys at Cathay Pacific can take bases anywhere in the world. As long as you've got the right to live/work there, you can take the base...Cough,,cough *Green Card* Cathay has bases both in Aussie as well as the USA obviously so u might consider that route too.

I don't know what the situation is over in your part of the world now but I think I'd prolly stay in Aussie if I were you. That whole side of the world is going to take center stage in the coming years which arguably implies job security for you. But I thought it was real funny that you posted that question on Independence Day (4th of July) hahaha!

Whatever you decide to do, Good luck...hope this insight helps out

Its pretty simple as i tried it before.
No Green Card = No job in US of A (less those holding J1 visas)

Just to clarify errors; if you have any kind of temporary work visa (j-1, F-1, etcc..) no job at any airline. You need to have a GREEN CARD, legal right to work in the US with no restrictions.
Why people stay in the US? Unions, contracts, work rules, quality of life, commute+jumpseat= live where you want, etc...
Don't need to say much more.

Don't waste your money. I just wasted well over 200,000 grand going to school here. Airline here won't give you a chance of the day without greencard. If you think you can go back home and fly than you are good cause than at least you wouldn't waste your money.

As for me I took a big gamble and now I'm realizing my parents were right after all. My parents always said I'm too stupid to be a pilot. I don't meet the medical standards for back home, so I came here cause with FAA I can get Class 1 easy. Since I love flying I thouht I' take the chance. I finished college and got my CFI. Now I'm flight instructing, but given some of the sponsoship requirements for greencard most flight schools aren't eligable. It have to be a full time salary based job with full benifits. I was hoping I'd get lucky with regionals, but no. Now I'm broke and ofcourse when I go home in few months I'll have no career as I won't pass my medical back home.

So be careful how you invest cause you might just loose if you don't know what you are getting into. Now if you know the right people you are all set. I know at least people that fly for airline here who doesn't have greencard. One is currently in Republic training for EMB-170 and she only have F-1 OPT temporary work visa and her boyfriend is with MESA with the same visa. Three others are in the process of getting greencard. So it can be done. It's not impossible if you know the right people in the HR department, but other wise it is very unlikely.

So if some one says you almost have no chance they are right, but if they say absolutley no than they don't know what they are talking about caue I can prove that airline do sponsor pilots. I personally know a handfull number of people who got their greencard through part 141 school and airlines. One guy I know just got his greencard about two weeks ago through Embryriddle in Florida and his borther got his greencard though IFTA in bakersfield california not too long ago.

I'm having some luck with a regional, but time is my enemy righ now. Two of the cheif pilot for a regional knows me well and they are both working with HR to help me. The reason I'm in bad shape is because my current visa expires before they can apply. They can only apply for work visa on a certain time of the year which is April 1st. So know the right people on the right time and you might just make it. Otherwise if I were you 'd think twice before I invest money here cause if things doesn't work out you will waste a lot of money like me.

Plus I'd suggest when you get here start talking to an immigration consultant from the beginning to find out your options. You really won't find out much here cause here you have a lot of people who just love to talk when they don't know what they are talking about.

Don't take any one's word for it, here it is in black and white:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD


J

Guys,

sorry to bother you with such a question, I did all my training in the USA and I really enjoy it specially the high level of professionalism involved in all levels :D

My question is about the beard and the US policy I mean the companies policy because it was told to me that it's absolutely forbidden in the cockpit even if the FAA recommendation is that a trimmed beard is ok until it doesn't interfere with the seal of the oxygem mask.

Thanks :ok:

long forgotten is our singaporean friend eh?

the aviation scene in singapore is pathetic. SQ ownes the biggest 9V- fleet - including sia cargo, tiger, silkair - and Singapore Youth Flying Club ownes the second largest at 10 pa28 + 2 ct4e.

SQ hires from hongkong, india, malaysia for their cadet program as previously pointed out. locals can forget it with the 26y/o limit.

HOWEVER, unlike previously claimed, the transistion from RSAF to SQ is possible if not guranteed. im in grade 12 now and only a signiture away from 10yrs of service(if you didnt get it, the airforce pilot bond in SG is 10yrs). i specifically asked the recruitment officer this and he reassured me(though im not sure if he's just playing me to sell my soul). it is stated in the recruitment brochure under [retirement benefits] though.

come 32 and im gone making it not so bad.

instead of flying in north america, why not come back to singapore? syfc is low on instructors now. they've just gotten a rsaf guy to finish his remaining 2yrs(of his bond) there. their ground school instructor only just passed all 22 atp papers and he'll be gone soon. instructors get 2-3hrs a day and they fly 6 days a week so its not that long before qualifying for regionals like tiger or air asia though you'll probably have to get your own 320/NG rating.

my instructor half-jokingly asked me to instruct there when i passed my checkride this june. and its not true all the instructors are ex-rsaf.

but in the end, we should face it that singaporeans become engineers, doctors, lawyers and accountants, angmohs can fly us around the world.

Green Card for PT121 operations
Requirements have gone down to 250hrs at some regionals.
Yes, you :cool:can fly a JET with 250 hours under your belt if you have a green card.:cool:

SQ hires from hongkong, india, malaysia for their cadet program as previously pointed out. locals can forget it with the 26y/o limit.
Yes! Very true. In this world, SIA could be the only airline that trains foreign cadets other than their own Singapore citizens! :eek:
the transistion from RSAF to SQ is possible if not guranteed
Sounds very difficult.

SQ aside, how about the regionals?

Airplane Crazy!

I work for the biggest 135 operatore (Cargo Airline) in US on my OPT F-1 visa, (AND I LOVE IT) do some research on google and find how it is. I still have 11 months left on my OPT and during the interview they chief pilot still hired me, although I have temporery work permit. He told me he wants me to work for him for 3 years, so..... I'm hoping they are going to sponser H1-b visa wich start in April, 2008.

There is a big big shortage in US so they hire people, only qualified poeple!! WITH WORK ATHORIZATION I have around 1200 tt so I met their minimus. I was instructing in the college I got my F-1 visa from, so it let me to work as an instructor before I got my work permit.

I have been invieted to several regionals for interview and I have been telling them about my status in us and the only thing they told me was if I have clearence to fly in US from TSA.

I didn't go to several interviews becuse I want to fly freight or cargo and be based in Los Angeles which my current job is providing me.

I think we are going to see US airlines or Part 91/135 operatoers filing h1b visas soon.

:ok:

Graduate, get your CFI, and work at a University (UND, Perdue, ERAU, KS...). After you graduate, you'll have a year to get your H1-B visa. The University you work for should be able to help you out with the sponsorship, most of them do. Once on the H1-B, you can apply for an adjustment of status and get your green card. The process takes a long time though. To give you an example, from the time I set foot on American soil with my student visa, to my very first hour in a jet, it took 9 years. Is it worth it? absolutely. Expensive? You bet. I'm dirt poor, always have been. It takes school loans, lots of them, and mucho patience. I was lucky to find a good lawyer to help me out with the green card process; though the university did all the work as far as the sponsorship was concerned. I can name at least 10 of my friends from college who did it. All of us are working for a regional airline here except one (he is an Emb175 instructor at CAE).
To conclude, don't ever listen to anyone out there who tell you it is not possible. Those are your silly negative nearsighted dogmatic views of non ambitious people. I am a broke Iranian citizen, and fly for a US regional airline (RP Awys). If I can do it, anone can...:ok:

Send me a pm if you were at a school at Oklahoma before and if you are Iranian and EU citizen. If you are than I think I know you. rsajib@<hidden>

I am about to graduate from University this coming May (2008), and plan to work in the US for a while prior to returning back to the Caribbean. I plan to apply for the OPT initially, and once I get settled in, to start working on the H-1B visa. Good or bad idea?

Good or bad? No need to ask cause that's the only option you have. Hate to tell you this though your luck is almost non existant. It will take you years to get a greencard. The question do you wanna invest so much in an industry where there is no gurantee for jobs and no money. I don't care for money, but now that I gotta support myself I realize it's easy to say I love flying more than money, but when time comes to pay bills all the fun is gone. I can't go home cause back home I can't fly. If you are from somewhere where you can get a good flying job than run home. Aviation now in US is completely screwed up. People here in aviation now expect you to work for free and put with crap while there is no gurantee that tomorrow you will have a job. Now not trying to discourage you, but unless you get a good deal make sure you don't invest too much in getting a green card cause I know people who spend many years and many dollars and at the end just had to pack up and go home as broke as it gets.

Thanks for the input Airplane Crazy. The thing is, there is so much more opportunity when it comes to the number of airlines here in the US, as compared to the Caribbean. The industry is in a state of confusion right now down there. Either way I will have to spend quite a bit of money. If I return to the region, I will have to convert my FAA license to the local license (costs quite a bit). If I stay up here, I will have to invest in acquiring that green card (also costs quite a bit). I am a strong believer in the fact that what's there for you can't ever be taken away. Afterall, hope is all we have in this profession right? Hope that we made the right decision in choosing this career in the first place. Hope that we will find that stable job doing what we love the most. Hope that we will wake up tomorrow, and still have a seat in the cockpit. I'm still depending on my passion for flying to feed my confidence in making a successful career in this field. Any other opinions/advice would greatly be appreciated. Once again, thanks...

Just do what seems best to you. I gotta tell you I love the US and I'm gonna do whatever it takes to stay here, but that's because my home sucks. It's too corrupt and people think like ancient style. Plus to get a job with airline there you gotta kiss peoples feet. US isn't free of troubles, but over all I find things in US way more fair than the rest of the world. Good luck with everything and don't be a stranger.

Man you couldn't have put it any better. Things are a lot brighter on this side of the ocean as compared to my home as well. I just don't feel like heading back just to sit on my butt, chewing away at my nails, and worrying about whether I'll ever get a start on paying off my student loan. The best of luck to you too, especially in this new year. We have to be optimistic man, even in the darkest of moments. Otherwise, we just won't make it!

Happy New Year to all and your families!

YP

I can tell all of you that from my personal experience, it could be done.

I set foot in the US with a F-1 visa for a 4-year degree, got all my licenses in 2.5 years and worked as a pilot and an instructor for the 1.5 years, all while I was getting my degree.

I was gonna apply for OPT, and I was even offered a H-1 visa sponsorship by my employer before my F-1 expired. And I am not the only one without a green card from my university who got job offers, from different employers.

I didn't apply for OPT, nor did I get the sponsorship, because I took a gamble for, IMHO, a better job flying back home. Luckily, I got the job, so it worked out, but even if I didn't, there are other opportunities around the world.

Those 4 or 5 years of experiences will allow you to get a job, possibly jet, somewhere else in the world. It might not be the best flying job, but at least you'll be flying.

A few examples:
- Qatar Airways cadets/second officer (wide-bodies... and no, you don't need Qatar residency)
- Virgin Nigeria (737s)
- Winair in Sint Maarten (do a DH-6 course in Flight Safety International in Toronto and you pretty much have a job guaranteed)
- etc...

Aviation is all about who you know, and 4 years is a long time to build connections for future use, you might as well end up with a job in the US, as a few other posters have pointed out and/or personally done.

Of course, flight training in the US is cheaper than anywhere else in the world.

Started reading as I have studied in the US years ago. I have been "applying" for the Green card lottery several times without any luck so found the thread interesting...

It looks to me like it is "just" a matter of a company "sponsoring" the applicant. For now maybe they are not desperate enough, maybe they will never be, depends very much on the US economy in the next 12-18 months I guess.....

This is from the US Immigration Services web site


"EB-3 Skilled or professional workers
Foreign national professionals with bachelor's degrees (not qualifying for a higher preference category)
Foreign national skilled workers (minimum two years training and experience)
Foreign national unskilled workersHow to Apply If you are an employer wishing to sponsor (or petition) for a foreign national to work in the United States on a permanent basis, you must file Form I-140, Petition for Alien Worker. Detailed information is provided in the instructions for Form I-140. Filing requirements differ for each of the five categories.
The Department of State is responsible for providing visa numbers to foreign nationals interested in immigrating to the United States. To find out more about the Department of State's visa process visit the Department of State website for specific information on how to get an immigrant visa number.
To check the status of a visa number you can review the Department of State's visa bulletin.

Where do I apply
If you are an employer wishing to sponsor (or petition) a foreign national to work in the United States, a Form I-140, Petition for Alien Worker must be filed at the USCIS Service Center. Detailed filing information is provided in the instructions for Form I-140.
For EB-4 special workers, the foreign national or employer must file Form I-360, Petition for Amerasian, Widow(er), or Special Immigrant, with the CIS Service Center. Detailed filing information is provided in the instructions for Form I-360. "



Impossible? I think not...

Have been here (US) for some months now and have seen no evidence of a genuine pilot shortage... experienced pilots are becoming a rarer animal but low-timers are easily come by... Have not heard of any instance of employer sponsored visas other than for flight instructors... (Florida)

ORANGEDRIVER... Interesting to hear that you tried the lottery...I was under the impression that Brits were not allowed to take part in that.. do you have Irish ancestory ?

poorwanderingwun - Im not British thats why....:ok: Last year I missed the last date to apply so guess I will not get a Green card this year either..:ugh:

Just take a look at their web site!!!!!!
The pilot requirements only mention to have a valid passport and documentation that allows you to enter and exit the US. It does not say anything about being an US citizen or US resident.
Just check it out!!!!!!!!!!

AA

Hi,

Just wondering if anybody knew what it would take to convert an Australian CASA CPL to an FAA CPL. I looked on the FAA website and its not that clear.

Cheers

Thanks Malc..... im just deciding if i want to try and get a job in the US or just stick to Australia here.

I know i would need to find a company to help me get a green card/Visa, so im just looking around at sites.... havnt seen much to accomodate me... any suggestions. I want corporate, but willing to work my way up! I have around 1000 hours at the moment.

If I were you I would try Regional Express in Australia rather than spending so much money to convert your license and then find out no one is hiring for a while. :ugh:

what was amin said true. if with F1 you can work in local likes university.
its was om happen to me before 911. I got the job part 121 finished all my training except IOE. the checked on the sim was part 142.
the problem was on the department of labour. its to complicated.
because to issue H1B visa from INS is depend approvall from dpt of labour.
now with after 911 even worst they not even think to give a foreigner works as pilot.
but now with major non us carrier I fly to IAD/EWR /JFK/IAH evry month.
even you married with american takes 2 years.:confused:

try in middle east or india they plenty jobs in aviation.:ok:

If you have the legal right to work here in the US (Green Card). US Airlines will hire you if they like you. Contrary to popular belief, the US does not discriminate against foreigners like the rest of the world does. None of that, only hiring your own kind, stuff.

Although, after what happened on 9-11, and since the whole world comes HERE to learn how to fly, we should "discriminate".

Weasil:

I hope I did not malign other pilots at airline x or anywhere else in my original post way back in '07.
The former IP there told me that one story and did not have time to explain the context or circumstances in detail etc.

There are so many changes in the US right now, the only thing that can help you is to have a good bit of seniority. Despite that, several small airlines just closed down and numerous other small companies could follow them.

Must say, I find it amusing that so many are trying to break into US aviation. There is someone over on the Canada forum seeking to BUY M-E time!!:ugh:

If you even pay the slightest attention to the news, US airline flying is just about in a depression. Chapter 11 was bypassed by several lines recently, Aloha, for example. UAL (and all the others) are going to furlough big time! Even some corporate operators are shutting down or reducing. Time to dust off that college sheepsking and see what is says-that might be a better future!! :sad:

The US economy is in a recession, but the airline industry seems to be headed into a depression. The worst part of this down cycle are the contributing factors. OIL will probably stabilize at $200. The Supply:Demand equation is irreversible. The trickle down effect of the deficit will stunt tourism and business travel. The reduction of essential service air travel will further squeeze economic travel growth for the airline industry.

Its pretty simple as i tried it before.
No Green Card = No job in US of A (less those holding J1 visas)


Unless you come from Mexico... ;)

Several Swedes at UPS (unfortunately we have some Weedges too ;))

why would you want to come here the future growth is in Asia and the middle east there is no hiring right now the HR will hire citizens before aliens, so don;t waste your time.

Not totally true. I have seen many aliens get hired instead of citizens. If you meet the requirements, they'll hire you(whenever the economy gets better).

"Not totally true. I have seen many aliens get hired instead of citizens."

Well, to clarify this... You're talking about permanent residents ('green card' holders) not just aliens being hired... Same rules apply in Europe where if you are a permanent resident (citizen 'in waiting') you may seek employment just like the citizens can...

You are right USav8or, I was talking about green card holders. Otherwise no chances.

Some airlines, like Continental and Frontier, will require a US passport as they don't want to mess with the background checks required for non citizens, including Green Card holders. It's expensive and time consuming, needed for all future training events too.

"Some airlines, like Continental and Frontier, will require a US passport as they don't want to mess with the background checks required for non citizens, including Green Card holders. It's expensive and time consuming, needed for all future training events too."

It's also illegal but most of all totally incorrect...

I know 2 pilot at Frontier and 5 at CAL who are yet to obtain a US passport... Know several more that got a US passport many years after being employed there...

I've worked with recruitment issues at several smaller airlines but the process is the same at all airlines. Your statement is simply incorrect. Not sure why you're spreading this false information?

Some airlines might have specific requirements if they have lots of DOT or postal contract flying but even then a US passport is not required. FDX for example wants you to have physically lived in the US 5 years prior to being employed there due to their huge postal contract...

Personal experience. I had an app with one of those carriers some years back when I was a green card holder.

This was not an airline I had an app with, but check out the link which states "Must possess a US Passport". They've changed it on their current official website ad but it was very specific previously.

Pilot Job :: Part 121 First Officer (Pilot) (http://www.avianation.com/aviation_jobs/jobDetail.cfm?jobID=3289791475)

Well, look at the phrase just a few sentences above - “Authorized to work in the US” – that’s the one which pertained to you at the time.

Most airlines will combine the two ‘requirements' and list them as “US Citizen or Authorized to Work in the US” or something similar.

IF your personal experience was that you were not hired simply because you were a green card holder – well, you could sue the crap out of them because according to the law you were authorized to work in the US…

Did they actually tell you that's why you weren't hired? :confused:

There is no doubt from the ad I posted that you had to have a US passport, it didn't say "or". Read it carefully.

I'm not sure when your friends were hired but in the post 9-11 hiring, US passports became very important with some companies, whether noted upfront or an unofficial policy. It wasn't a problem prior to that. I can't give you details of my experience with certain applications (to protect the inside sources) but I can assure you it's a factor. Suing would be fruitless, hard to prove and would ruin your name with other pursuits. I heard about somebody who already tried that.

There is no doubt from the ad I posted that you had to have a US passport, it didn't say "or". Read it carefully.

I know there is no doubt in the ad… Read carefully what I said which is “most airlines” and obviously not that airline… Basically, the ad incorporates a linguistic error or rather they list the requirements in two separate paragraphs instead of one like many airlines will do but they too have to follow the law…


I'm not sure when your friends were hired but in the post 9-11 hiring, US passports became very important with some companies, whether noted upfront or an unofficial policy. It wasn't a problem prior to that.

Having gone to numerous HR events in the past (Airinc, OBAP, WAI, etc) I developed friendships with many recruiters at different airlines… Is it possible that some people out there are sexist, racist, biased, etc? You bet you, that exists all over the world and I’m sure those people will use whatever excuse to turn someone down if they don’t like the person’s race, gender, nation of origin, etc, etc…

However to arbitrarily claim that airlines ‘require’ US passports is simply not true… Statistics do not lie and there are numerous non-US passport holders at many different airlines, including many major airlines (and the ones you've mentioned) that have been hired both before and after 9/11.


I can't give you details of my experience with certain applications (to protect the inside sources) but I can assure you it's a factor. Suing would be fruitless, hard to prove and would ruin your name with other pursuits. I heard about somebody who already tried that.

I’m sorry someone turned you down and that you think it was because of you being born outside the US. Maybe that’s exactly what happened, who knows?
However, if that’s the case then it’s about that one person or persons being biased and NOT about some kind of “unofficial airline policy” because that policy does not exist.

As far as a lawsuit being fruitless – I guarantee you that the ACLU fanatics would’ve found a way to make it very “fruitful” if there were grounds for a lawsuit. Additionally you could’ve done it anonymously…

Again, my point is please blame the guilty individuals rather than some kind of orchestrated secret airline policy…

I've provided some links to back up my point, here's another with the following judgement

(a). Cease and desist from the unfair immigration-related employment
practice found in this case, i.e., preference for U.S. citizen hires in
violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1324b;

http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/OcahoMain/publisheddecisions/Hardbound/Volume1/74.pdf

I would be interested to see the stats you talk about, especially since 2005/06 among some majors. And I'm only talking about new hires since then, not pilots already employed who were foreigners.
I'm happy at the major where I work, but I know that I've seen this kind of thing with others in the past. Not a matter of sour grapes as things turned out for the better anyway. Just relaying some experiences from myself and others.

I've provided some links to back up my point, here's another with the following judgement

(a). Cease and desist from the unfair immigration-related employment
practice found in this case, i.e., preference for U.S. citizen hires in
violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1324b;

http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/OcahoMain/...Volume1/74.pdf

I’ve tried to read the entire document and it wasn’t easy… I failed my English Legalese class… ;)

I’m a little confused why you'd bring up this particular case? It's a 20+ year old case and it deals with a small (at the time) regional airline; most of all there is this statement in there clarifying that ‘intending to become a US citizen" is no longer required:

“Contrary to its prior position, the Department no longer requires that a declaration be completed and filed before the occurrence of the alleged discrimination. That change in policy and interpretation which became effective on November 30, 1988…”

Way before my time but from what I understand in the past people used to sign a statement saying that one day they’d apply for US citizenship. However, that "promise" was never followed up on so many people never applied despite signing the form…

In a way it’s similar to today when many people become dual citizens despite the "promise" they make to the US - “…I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;…”

I’m sure you know some pilots who’re dual citizens, don’t you? So it’s another one of those "we would like for you to do this but we won’t actually enforce it" deals…

In your example, after 1988 they even stopped asking people to obligate themselves to apply for the US citizenship (at least according to your article)… That's my, admittedly limited, understanding of this whole procedure...

Either way, you believe the US airlines have a hidden anti-alien agenda while I don’t, even though I acknowledge there are some biased individuals out there – so let’s agree to disagree… I only wish the European airlines were as accommodating to American pilots in Europe as the US airlines are to the European pilots (in both cases I’m talking about permanent residents.) Disclaimer – born and raised in Europe myself…

I would be interested to see the stats you talk about, especially since 2005/06 among some majors. And I'm only talking about new hires since then, not pilots already employed who were foreigners.

Since you mentioned CAL before - in the last 3 years or so I know of 2 Norwegians and 1 German hired at CAL… One of them was in one of the last classes they had… The German is about to become a US citizens; not because he has to but because he wants to be able to vote – he wasn’t too happy about the last prez election… ;) Either way, I’m sure you’ll run into discrimination every now and then but I think you’ll see that everywhere… ACLU would’ve loved to represent you or your friend… :E

I'm happy at the major where I work, but I know that I've seen this kind of thing with others in the past. Not a matter of sour grapes as things turned out for the better anyway. Just relaying some experiences from myself and others.

I agree with you that things always happen for a reason so I’m glad you’re happy where you are.

Take care…

Well I know two Norwegians that were hired at Delta, one in 2007 one in 2008. US companies cannot discriminate against background if the applicant has all the legal work requirements. Smaller companies are far more likely to discriminate than a major airline, but even my small company hired "green card" holders.