Two new South Atlantic airfields?

[cokecan]

while bored out of my mind i did some 'tinterweb browsing and discovered that HMG was certainly building one - and possibly two - airports in the South Atlantic - the certain one on St Helena (a runway of 2250m 800 miles south east of Ascension) and possibly another on Tristan Da Cunha, 2400 miles southwest of St Helena (the TDC airport seems to be only hinted at, and may actually refer to the St Helena airport)

anyone know what the score is - and whether, in the event of the fragrant Mrs Kirchner getting a hammering on the polls, such airfields would be of any use for E-3D, Nimrod etc...?

[XV277]

According to Google earth's ruler (The only Navaid I have at the moment!) St helena is only about 100 miles nearer the Falklands than Ascencion.

Whilst 1500 miles closer, TdC is basically 6 miles across with a big volcano in the middle. NOt much room for a useful runway

http://www.visitandlearn.co.uk/locationfactfiles/Tristan1.asp

http://www.visitandlearn.co.uk/locationfactfiles/images/Tristan-3.jpg

[Claire Volkwyn]

We live on Tristan and while the idea of an airport is wonderful, it's unlikely - certainly not enough traffic to and from the island to make it financially viable.
More information on the island can be found at www.tristandc.com (http://www.tristandc.com)

[trap one]

IIRC there is a new budget on Tristan Da Cunha that has been announced with a a lot of "Austerity measures" being introduced. If there was an airfield on TDC then a Fisheries patrol aircraft could be based there, thus extending the ability of the Islanders to check who is fishing in their waters and thus to impose the relevant taxes on those fishing in their waters.

Whilst a Military length/style runway is a niceity that could be used for a FI conflict shouold it re-occur. An AN72P is available from the Ukraine with the following performance figures.

Weights: An-72 - Empty 19,050kg (41,997lb), max takeoff (from a 18OOm/5900ft runway) 34,500kg (76,060lb), max TO from a 1000m (3280ft) runway 27,500kg (60,625lb). An-72P - Max takeoff 37,500kg (82,670lb).

It could also be used for SAR or looking for runaway Oil Platforms.

http://www.tristandc.com/newsofPXXI.php

Or provide a medevac facility for the Islanders to SA. Mind you the divs are a bit rare.

Not having a good enough map of the Island I can't say if the requred lengths would be available.

[A and C]

I would think that this all has more to do with influencing the ownership of rights for the extraction of oil and coal from the antartic in the next decade.

I cant see the UK putting up money for a runway that was only going to be looking after the fishing industry.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Not much flat level surface on the island of TdC unless you want to urine off the islanders and build the runway on the potato patches.

Claire, please check PMs.

[Something witty]

They'd be of naff all use without the two new a/c carriers ;)

Although the RAF could never reclaim the FI alone (despite protestations to the contrary!!) I would certainly be glad of Sentry and Nimrod cover... Nimrod and AAR? :uhoh::sad:

[The Helpful Stacker]

They'd be of naff all use without the two new a/c carriers

Perhaps the Falklands could just be moved a little closer to a suitable supporting airfield on maps.

I'm surprised no-ones thought of something similar before......;)

[spheroid]

Perhaps the Falklands could just be moved a little closer to a suitable supporting airfield on maps.

I'm surprised no-ones thought of something similar before......;) Yesterday 20:34

Tee Hee.... a good dig at the cheating, dishonest crabs...well done.

[trap one]

Like I said I don't have any good enough maps, and the logistics of getting enough Fuel onto the Island for the operations would be a nightmare.

Nor am I an Engineer but if you replaced the Road (track) from Edinburgh to the potato patches with a runway for an AN72 that might use it twice a day for Fisheries, and twice a week to SA, and the the Islanders have a road and a facility that could get them to hospital in less than 4 hours, I would say go ahead and put the runway in.

Well if you throw enough money at anything you can get a job done. IIRC the prevailing winds are from the SW and the track is NE-SW anyway.

[SRENNAPS]

Claire

Sorry, but I have to ask this question:

How does somebody who lives on an island, 6 miles across with a big volcano in the middle, placed in the South Atlantic Ocean, spot this thread and post their “FIRST” reply??????

I am amazed – in a very nice way that is.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Trap one

Might be worth taking a look at Nightingale or Inaccessible to see if they have any flat bits for a runway but it'll make the greenies blow a foofie valve if HM ever gets around to building one there. Not sure if the road to the potato patches is flat enough having seen AN74s stopping performance in the Sudan. Nothing to write home about. Might be better to put in a longer strip for a C130. Your problem remains re fuel (AN74 being a thirsty beastie) and it'll be a day VFR operation to all intents and purposes. However, one would be happy to volunteer to spend a few years there doing the patrol/medevac/resupply thing should HM feel generous.

When were you on the island?

[trap one]

Was never on TdC, which is a shame as It looks a nice place. Looked at the An72P for a certain company that I'd applied for a job when I was exiting. Job was rear crew for part Oil spill spotting/development. Never got the job for a couple of reasons. But looked at Fisheries with both ST Helena, TdC and other remote locations in mind. Bonus with Ukraine/Russia development is that you don't have to go through a very long CAA/FAA approval for modifications.

Part of Mod was Less thirsty engines, others included Tech such as LLTV/IR. Add in GPS-ILS for possible marginal weather.

Licencing for fishing is VERY big business especially as the 200 mile limit is becoming the standard. With an airborne surveilance the cost is of course greater but so are the benefits.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Need some pretty good endurance to cover Gough as well, as it's part of the Tristan group. Huge rock lobster fishery down that way and the met team on Gough do keep an eye on things and report any strange ships in the area. The island is pretty rough territory and anyone around the back can easily pass undetected unless a field research team spots them. Not certain if the amount of money generated warrants all that effort for fisheries, but it may be a viable staging post for mil operations farther South. Probably not worth it just to keep an AN72/74 out there but future plans for HM Forces to run a couple of transports in and out occasionally make sense in light of possible oil fields around the Falklands. Would be really happy to get a position down that way as I know a couple of people on Tristan, good folks all and the island is a really pretty place if you like the wild windswept thing....:ok:

[trap one]

Hmm
Yes I still like the old remoter places and have fond memories of the remote postings.
Not sure if the program would ever go ahead but it was a possibility of either having an AN72P or a couple and do the Islands as a rotating basis thereby keeping the illegal fishing to a minimum.
It was a Fisheries driven idea/project and came from the civil side rather than the Mil so who knows the status of the project, was back in Jul 05 when I had a brief look.

[Something witty]

...and the logistics of getting enough Fuel onto the Island for the operations would be a nightmare.

Thats what tankers are for (the seagoing variety). It certainly wasn't flown to Ascension for the last visit... so without shipping the Vulcan missions (that won the Falklands back single-handed) couldn't have been flown :E

That said, I don't know if theres an oil terminal or any other suitable solution, so yes, a good point.

THS & Spheroid, good to see you're both 'on message.' :ok:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Calshot Harbour is pretty small and basic so offloading would be tricky. Weather usually doesn't play along much either.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Something Witty - Even though I took a dig at the RAF with my last I must own up to being an ex-sideways scuttling stacker myself. If you can't take a joke and all that.
;o)

[Double Zero]

I haven't studied the figures, but I've read in the past of TDC residents in big trouble with Medevac; if that could be combined with Fisheries / general UK interests I would think it well worthwhile.

On the other hand that profile shot doesn't look immediately like a place for a strip !

Maybe need a helo' or two as well as the AN27 though ?

[parabellum]

For those who know TDC: Would a runway similar to Funchal be a possibility? Scraped out of the side of a hill with over and undershoot built on raised structures at each end, capable of C130, B757 etc.

As for fuel there is a surplus of tankers awaiting charter most of the time so a 'permanent ' tanker moored close by with appropriate piplines to the airfield that could be fed by visiting tankers may be an answer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flughafen_Madeira_1.jpg

[Xercules]

I was involved 7 or 8 years ago in some questions about an airfield on TdC. Apparently the FCO had asked consultants to look into the possible development of all the South Atlantic Dependencies - TdC and St Helena amongst them. One thought being pursued was to develop tourism with TdC being a potential twitchers' paradise. However, tourism demands air travel which in turn demands airfields.

At the time, all supplies were delivered to TdC by sea and the maximum weight for any single item was 10 tonnes because everything had to be lightered from ship to shore. For tourists there is also the addiyional question of frequency - one ship roughly every 3 months.

TdC, apparently, has space for about a 2000m R/W but with a cliff/hill going up at one end and a cliff going down at the other. It is 1700 miles from anywhere else including StH which means, even in this day and age probably, a 4 engined aircraft with round trip fuel in case of adverse weather on arrival plus a pax and freight (including wheeled) capability.

After some correspondence over about 12 months it all went quiet and I assumed that the consultant's report was complete and had joined that great FCO filing cabinet in the sky. It would seem not entirely so, but an airfield on TdC still does seem a remote (in both senses) likelihood.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

2000m? Should be OK for something like an A340-200 as they'll be going out fairly light for the trip back to SA I should think. Need some good forecasting to get in though. Only working upper air met station in the area is on Gough apart from a few surface observations taken on Tristan. Return fuel for diversion and MLW is what may screw the load going into Tristan a bit. Don't know the larger jets so just guessing here. Four engines to make you feel better over that much open sea as well I reckon.:eek:

[pzu]

see

Shabby treatment by colonial masters - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5367905.ece)

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)

[Lurking123]

It's a pity there isn't something like a Sunderland flying boat still available. I'm pretty sure the later versions had significant range. :cool:

[Polikarpov]

Well, having just tried it out of curiosity, the in-built Google Earth flight simulator does a pretty good job of rendering the terrain on TdC for anyone interested in trying a speculative approach!

[CirrusF]

Plenty of room for one of these on TdC:

http://the-info.org/wp-content/imagescaler/6c1618e5a3e1d4e3d59dd043cd366305.jpg

[CirrusF]

It's a pity there isn't something like a Sunderland flying boat still available. I'm pretty sure the later versions had significant range. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/cool.gif


There is - check out the Beriev 2500:
Beriev Be-2500 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-2500)

Bigger than an Antonov 225!!!

[Gen. Jack D Ripper]

I would've thought having a couple of suitable 6,500ft+ runways fairly close to the direct track from ASI-MPN might be beneficial with a 'biggish twin' taking over the AirBridge from the L1011 & VC-10's.

I don't agree with the large aircraft not being 'financially viable' argument. You wouldn't need a 'large aircraft', especially a 4 engined one.

I think an operator could quite easily provide a profitable operation, assuming 2 6500ft runways were available on 'Saint' & TdC. And my chioce of aircraft for the route?- A B757-200 Combi Freighter.

Effectively you could link all the Atlantic Islands from ASI- St.Helena-TdC-MPN. The flexibility of the B757-200 means you could 'hub' operations out of ASI, while 'spoking' the British Atlantic dependancies & other Atlantic 'Rim' destinations such as Cape Town, Recife, Montevideo,Dakar & other Island groups such as Cape Verde, Canaries & Azores, while allowing a smooth transition to a B767-300 Combi Freighter if required capacity dictates so.

If Oil & Tourism develop in the Falkland Islands, I think an operation such as above & airfields for St.Helena & TdC are a case of 'When' not 'If'.
:ok:

[Squirrel 41]

Or bin the idea of a runway, and buy some Beriev Be-200s....

S41