Lean RAF 'Pretty Stretched"

[cliver029]

..Of some interest?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7366098.stm

Cliver029

[aw ditor]

Look East!

[green granite]

I watched that last night and came to the conclusion that he was suggesting, diplomatically, that the RAF was only just able to cope with it's current commitments. Any further escalation and it would fall to pieces.

[Had Enough 77]

Quote:Any further escalation and it would fall to pieces? Let's be honest I think it is already there. :ugh:

[Beatriz Fontana]

It's not just the RAF: the RN, Army and MoD Civil Service at the Centre are completely overstretched. We need a new government with a sympathetic Treasury.

[Jimlad1]

"Oh dear, it must be hell sitting in their offices on those expensive office chairs. I guess there is no comparison to that, not even Afghanistan or Basrah."

Why don't you ask the large number of MOD CS in those places what lifes like there? :E

Strangely enough it is quite difficult in the centre right now - trying to balance multiple commitments, massive demands for cuts from treasury (try year on year demands for 5% efficiency savings for starters) and trying to keep the front line supported is a challenge.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Presently Sitting kind of in the middle of this argument, knowing people well from both sides, I would add that ALL are under pressure.

On the Ops side; there is the constant deployments, threat, workload, family etc issues which are very very real, and affect many people more now than historically. However, in the support areas, particularly the CS who work with the MOD, there are also real and unexpected pressures and tensions.

It's not really fair to compare like for like, as their area, work and assumpions are so different. But, one thing that can be said: Is that all areas are overstreached!

Soldiers leaving is bad, Pilots leaving is bad ANYONE leaving is bad, but a lot of CS Mod emplyees are doing the same, for the same reasons...... "We never signed up to this!" and they are correct, but we are not, this is what we signed up for! (Albeit not for so long without propper support or funding from a IDIOT government).

Bottom line: Blame the MOD CS if you like, but it's like blaming the British Exp Force at Dunkirk........ Go Figure.

Advo

[Old Ned]

Could we not have selected a better CAS? Sir Glenn Torpy looked ill at ease during the interview, lacked any gravitas (more like a Del Boy sans savvy), mangled the English language and demonstrated a very poor "face" of our proud Service. Undoubtedly a top bloke, but we need someone with balls, ie Sir Richard Dannett.

Sadly, any CAS must "fit in" as far as the government is concerned, as they have the right of veto. So I guess we get the man they say, not necessarily the man we want, or need.

[BEagle]

Old Ned, how right you are!

It was an abysmal interview - wherever did he learn his English?

And dressed in that stupid prep school pullover as well......:*

[Jimlad1]

1.4G - actually I was talking about the pressure on the Centre not the CS. The fact is that despite some peoples near pathological belief that the CS are here to try and f*ck you over, we really are on your side.

The fact is that in the centre right now, a lot of forces and CS personnel are trying to keep the wheels from falling off and keep the show on the road. I know its easy to target the CS - after all, we've all met little jobsworths in stations who can be a pain, but these people can be found in any walk of life, in uniform or in the CS.

Having listened to several 3/4* figures (both uniform and CS) make quite clear the other day that every MOD CS should be in no doubt that their role is to support the front line, I don't think there is a shadow of a doubt where our priorities lie. Perhaps its time to let go of your baseless predjudices and accept that people are trying to help - even if we are untermenschen for not wearing a flying suit.

[BEagle]

Nevertheless, Plop finder, it is still a b£oody travesty of a uniform!

When I wore such a prep school uniform at the age of 10, I would have been in trouble had I spoken such poor English!

I kept expecting him to say "Innit" or "Know wot I mean".....

[BEagle]

That's 'pompous', incidentally

If you're going to be insulting, at least be correctly insulting.

Innit.

[SRENNAPS]

Old Ned, just an opinion:

Glenn is a top bloke and anybody who has known him over the years will agree.

Please name the man you want or need because I am quite intrigued who that could be. I know a few at the top and I would much prefer Glenn (Even if I was still in).

Sir Richard Dannett is also a top bloke and he has made some great remarks, but what has he actually done to change things – not a lot. One wonders if the politicians just see him as another Lord Melchard.

I was pleased to hear Glenn mention that the Royal Air Force has been on continuous ops in the gulf for 17 years; something that some of the younger members of the RAF (since 2003 at least) might want to realise and understand.

Beagle, you surprise me at your comments about Glenn. Maybe you have never met him. Rest assured he is a great bloke who is totally committed to the RAF and the people who serve with him. He has an attitude you would have been proud of.

At the end of the day Sir Glenn has to be diplomatic and he has to be careful in what he says. If he wasn’t, the top MOD chaps and politicians would just bin him and you would end up with someone who has spent their careers with their head up somebody else’s behind – just like the majority of the middle to senior Officers in today’s Air Force.

The sad thing is that when Glenn retires, one of them will be in charge – then you really will have something to moan about.

[Jimlad1]

"the top MOD chaps and politicians "

Who are these 'top MOD chaps' you refer to? The only person senior to Sir Glen in the air force chain is CDS. The MOD do not have, and never have had the power to get rid of CAS's just like that. I'd be very interested to know who you think has got this power?

[Dr. Eg]

Stu Peach for CAS. Hard as nails, takes no sihte, and the most proficient air warfighting man I have ever met. Including me.

[Guzlin Adnams]

Off at a bit of a tangent as it were. Liked the toys on display behind Sir Glen. C17, Hawk, Typhoon (x2), Dave, Taranis and er....was that an SM 311? A pointer for the future instead of Tucano?:hmm:

Anyway, for the general public who would have watched the interview I don't think too many would have worried about the technicalities of his presentation. Hopefully they would have picked up on the interesting points ie continual service in the middle east, more capability required here and there together with Emilia Reynolds comments on cutbacks etc.
Well done to Look East for broaching the subject and trying to make Joe Public aware that the RAF is working bl00dy hard. ;)

[SRENNAPS]

Jimlad1

Really!!!!!

So you mean to tell me that if a CAS turns out to be “Not one of us” he would not be got rid of.

What planet do you live on.

[Jimlad1]

"Stu Peach for CAS. Hard as nails, takes no sihte, and the most proficient air warfighting man I have ever met. Including me."

Totally concur - best senior RAF officer that I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with. Totally supportive of his staff and utterly focussed on the job. He's done wonders as CDI and I think he could do a great job as CINC or CAS.

As for this

"So you mean to tell me that if a CAS turns out to be “Not one of us” he would not be got rid of."

I'm still asking who would be doing the 'getting rid of' - people seem to think that "senior MOD figures" would do this. Who are these people- only 1 Officer is senior to CAS and that is CDS. Are you saying that if CAS speaks out CDS will sack him? He didn't sack CGS when he spoke out?
Once again - who are these mysterious MOD figures you speak off?

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Isn't he a Navigator?

[BEagle]

I've no doubt that Sir Glenn is a thoroughly nice chap who holds the interests of the RAF dearly at heart.

I just don't think that he came across very well in that interview. That's all.

Stu Peach sounds like someone the politicos might need to give a good listening to though....:ok:

[Shiney Pencil]

Rumour has it that the two in the running for CAS are Moran and Dalton.

[Jackonicko]

Both seem like good guys, IMHO, or were when they were lowly enough to talk to journo scum. Could they be the 'Mike Graydon' of their generation? Or the B-word?

Does that mean that it won't be Clive Loader? So you won't all be learning your Kamikaze drills, or train egress procedures..... Or David f***ing Walker? :yuk:

But when you look at the 'good ones' who don't make it to CAS (Malcolm Pledger, Tim Jenner, John Allison) surely it's more likely to be one of the bad 'uns?

Surely Stu Peach is too old, and the intelligence job too much of a sideways move away from the coalface?

[engoal]

I just don't think that he came across very well in that interview. That's all.

I think he may have been one jumper out of date (barely a flicker on my personal 'give-a-f**kometer' (http://clickthex.tribe.net/photos/f2d6dead-a71e-493c-993a-5a3d43ce92b7)at this point), but there was nothing fundamentally wrong with what he said. My problem was that I kept expecting to see Bremner, Bird or Fortune turn up as part of the interview!;)

[Dr. Eg]

Stu Peach is a navigator, but I'd vote for him any day. The important thing is that he'd be focussed on Task, Team AND Individual (leadership 1.0.1, as taught by an RAF College called Cranwell), rather than just on Task.

[chinook240]

Beagle, because you have been out of the RAF for a thousand years and well out of touch with all things Air Force you wouldn't know that the jumper he was wearing is the new, latest issue

Then why was I given a roundneck, not a v-neck, jumper from stores 2 weeks ago?

(Nothing like a bit of thread drift)

[Old Ned]

(Ladies? and) gentlemen, The hornet's nest seems well and truly stirred! My last was not a reflection on the charm and personality of Sir Glenn Torpy. As to MOD having a say in CAS, believe me they do! Part-time Jock Browne would have to say yea. Names of likely candidates are screened for acceptability. As you may know, guys are "groomed" for CAS. I am sure David Walker (Harrier bloke not Queen's Mess Manager) has to be in the frame; 3* now and probably next or next but one for CAS.

He who mentioned Malcolm Pledger presumably never worked for him!!!! Good guys who never made it have GOT to include John Cheshire, possibly one of the brightest and most gracious 4* officers for years.

Pip pip ON

[Beatriz Fontana]

NAROBS,

Totally agree. Mate of mine is back from Basra completely frazzled by the experience. Worn out after six months of 18 hour days, and didn't have the ability to shoot back, no tactical training, nothing. Nor did I when I went overseas years ago, and that would've been handy.

Before anyone has a go at the civil servants on operational support - be it in London or on the front line - try being one. Naff salary, long hours, forget about the good pension (that was closed a few years ago) and if it wasn't for the love of the job, I'm sure lots would've left by now. Political bellowing on one side, senior officers doing the same on the other. Sitting alongside staff officers who are on twice their salary and all of the benefits yet have seen less front line work than their grey suited colleagues.

Policy wonks, however, now that's a different matter...

Finally... Peach as CAS? Maybe. Supporting his staff? Nope. Not by the experiences of some of my friends currently working for him further down the chain. Invisible is more the word.

[buoy15]

chinook
Because the Military Dress Standards Regulation Committee for Contractors to 2010 and beyond, had a meeting - and the RN won - Round necks hide the chest wigs when you run ashore, so you don't upset the natives
Next on the agenda - Modify No1's, so when you walk about with your hands in your pockets, only your thumbs stick out:p

[buoy15]

Plot finder, Bonny Lad
I'm not sure if you're still breast feeding or at school - but with 17 posts under your belt, you really need to pick on somebody of your own limited experience size, rather than Beagle
Pick on me if you like - I'm sure I'm familiar with things you could'nt even guess at - including English Grammar:ugh:

[Dr. Eg]

The only people who slag off Stu Peach (and there are precious few of them) are those who can't keep up with him. He is the only Air Officer that I have ever met who I would unquestioningly follow to the end of the earth. Now if we're going to have qualifying criteria for the job of CAS, then that sounds like a good one to me.

Let's vote!

[Beatriz Fontana]

Dr. Eg. Let's agree to disagree, but from what I've been told, Peach is better off commanding, not being behind a desk.

[threeputt]

You heard it here first....Iain McNicoll.

3P:ok:

[Wingswinger]

First Torpy, then Peach, now someone is suggesting McNutt. I should have stayed in! :{:{:{

[chinook240]

Bouy15,

Thanks m8, but my point was that CAS wasn't wearing the latest jumper and the slagging Beagle got was unwarranted - CAS jumper is not the latest!

(More thread drift)

[Biggus]

Pardon my ignorance (it's not going to effect me personally, so I have never bothered to find out), but how long does someone serve as CAS? Until they retire....?

Surely any other job, with the exception of CDS, afterwards would be a backward step, demotion of sorts. So will Sir Glenn be CAS until he retires, or is there a specific time limit on the job????

[Wrathmonk]

Isn't Mr Peach going to be very busy for the next 18mths - 2 years to be able to be CAS (even if his flying badge "debars" him from the appointment:E). I'm sure those in the know will know. Knowledge and all that. After that I reckon he will be VCDS.

As for the next CAS - assuming it happens in the next couple of years - I think it will only ever be a "holding appointment" waiting for the likes of Timo, Baggers or, god forbid, Harps to get enough "time in" to hold the rank! The Dark Lord as CAS, perhaps with Baggers as CINC AIR, current Air Off Scotland as DCINC and Osby as AOC 1. Now that would be interesting (and probably a bit of fun as well). Mr L, ex staish at Brize, may even be AOC 2 by then.....!:p

And for a bit of fun what about the next CDS? Unlikely to be Torpy, Dannett has blown his chances (IMHO). Gen Richards anyone? Or Gen Lamb .... Maybe a sailor will get a look in!

[NickGooseBrady]

We are all stretched at the moment and I am sure the RAF are feeling the pinch very much in some areas with the hi tempo operations on-going.

However, I have always found it odd that the RAF seem to have a surplus of support personnel from basket weavers to blanket stackers to scribblers. The abundance of bods in these "Force Development Squadron" thingies always amazes me. The RN and Army have stripped the "tail" part of their organisations right back just to be able to afford the "teeth" (with the joy of LEAN to contend with). Do the RAF not realise just how much money you can re-direct if you are prepared to make a few sacrifices in the "tail" bit?

Hard hat on.....

[threeputt]

AM Sir Gregory John Bagwell KCB CBE etc etc has a certain ring about it doesn't it. However, given that Steve Hillier has just got 2 Gp and Timo is ACAS, Baggers might be a bit behind the timeline just yet.

Incidentally, nice to see that the majority of the names in the frame are ex Bruggen Wing sqn Flt Lt's from the mid 80's (except Peachy who was a wheel on 31 and IX (B)).

3P:ok:

[Beatriz Fontana]

Wrathmonk - Unless I'm mistaken, Admiral Boyce was RN :O Top bloke, too.

[snowball1]

You can't have a hard hat as under your plans, the stackers have all been sacked, so no one left to issue it!

[Didntdoit]

Great debate this.

I think that, whilst the wings on the chest will always be double-plus good brownie quals for a CAS, things have changed. If Ro can boss Wittering, then many bets are.....off.

I've met all the names mentioned so far (who hasn't?), but, for what it's worth.

McNutt - Gray enough (ask Mad JP) and therefore, in the running.

Lod - Do it; would follow him.

Moran - As if?!

Stu Peach - Brain the size of a planet, and would break many moulds and slaughter many sacred cows.

Lod or Peachy - that's what the Frim needs. :ok:

That is all.

[Squirrel 41]

Certainly having AO Scotland as DCINC would be a good thing.... top bloke! :)

And I didn't think Stu Peach was that old? :confused:

Might be nice to have a CDI who's actually an IntO at some point, though. :rolleyes:

S41

[Megaton]

If CAS were selected by vote, I'd put my cross by his name. Good to see that there are still some leaders left in the RAF

[Old Ned]

Like the idea of Little Bear (AO Scotland) and ex Stn Cdr Akr, for DCinC, then ACAS? (As a nav he may get no further though). We were flt cdrs together at RAFC many moons ago. An excellent man, who has the good points from dad, but fewer of the bad ones!!

Pip pip ON

[Wrathmonk]

Beatriz

Totally agree, but I was trying to look forward not dwell in the past!;)

[Climebear]

Like the idea of Little Bear (AO Scotland) and ex Stn Cdr Akr, for DCinC, then ACAS?

Both DCINCs are Air Mshls while ACAS is an AVM!

[Old Ned]

Climebear,

Thanks. I did of course mean ACAS THEN DCinC!!

Pip pip ON