Ever hit a model aircraft?

[You Sir, Name!]

I'm not trolling for a debate about the nerdiness of the hobby, but wondered if anyone had any good stories about near misses or collisions with model aircraft.

Surely more and more of a danger as they're getting very big and fast!

http://gizmodo.com/382748/top-gun-2008-biggest-rc-airplane-competition-in-the-world

[splitbrain]

At the Large Model Aircraft rally at Cosford a few years back there was a Tiger Moth, er, model that the announcer claimed was big enough to carry a smll child :eek:
Is it right that these things actually need to have CAA build and airworthiness approval as they are, effectively, aeroplanes rather than mere models?

[The Flying Pram]

The Large Model Association (http://www.largemodelassociation.com/) website gives details. Look under "Information" >> "Over 20kg Scheme"

[davejb]

Above a certain weight limit (mass, for physicists) - between 7kg and 20kg models cannot be flown above 400 ft unless cleared by ATC (I think this only applies to controlled airspace - I doubt they expect you to provide your own ATC facility in the back of beyond), and you have to keep 150m from congested areas.

Above 20kg you need a CAA 'Permission to Test' exemption certificate, which lasts 12 months, before you can fly the critter. In addition, the model must be inspected during the build (there's a countrywide list of examiners apparently) to ensure it's constructed correctly, an examiner then supervises a test flight to check the 'pilot' is competent. The certificate okays named 'pilots' to fly the aircraft, all named pilots have to have flown a saitsfactory test flight with the examiner.

There's probably other bits and bobs involved - there's a Large scale aircraft club (LMA?) of some sort within the auspices of the national club (BMFA), and they all take the construction and proof of competent handling very seriously indeed.

Saw a Gloster Gladiator in an article, I think it was 1/3 scale, and looked quite capable of providing a 5 year old with that authentic 1930's 'wind in the hair, bugs in the teeth' experience.

Looking for a kinetic energy kill, an alternative is to buy one of the modern jet models instead - you can buy them ready made too, I've seen a few advertised...F15's and the like going for up to 15 grand a pop....I suspect one of them going full chat up an intake would do every bit as much damage as a 20 kilo DC-3....

Dave

[Airborne Aircrew]

Not a Model... But nearly... :ok:

Flying practice instruments in winter NE of Odiham and NW of Farnborough I thought I saw something skip into a cloud a mile or two ahead. I alerted the LHS to my "feeling" and we watched out. Turned out I was neither hallucinating nor drunk... :D

Some eejut had decided that it would be a brilliant idea to :-
Go skipping in and out of clouds at 3500', (pretty much the perfect mid-level for practice IFR between two busy(ish) airfields)
Do it pretty much on the two main runway headings, (departure heading of Farnborough and approach heading for Odiham)
Do it in -10C temps, (so no-one would expect him to be there 'cos he'd have to be mentally deficient to do so)
With no radio
Being almost invisible to all radaron/in his frigging Microlight...

Bearing in mind there were both Chinooks and Pumas in the air at the time the resultant collision would have been the much the same as hitting a model with the welcome addition of some nice "squishy, coloured stuff".:uhoh:

[Fg Off Max Stout]

On two occasions I've had very near misses with large model aircraft. On the closer occasion, whereas my steed was audible and visible for probably about 8 miles, the model, which probably had a 6-8ft winspan was invisible until it was within a couple of hundred yards or about 3 secs away. The resultant hard, aggressive manoeuvring at 50 agl just avoided a collision. Having seen the damage a small bird can do, I'd hate be in the cockpit when the engine block of one of these things comes through the windscreen at about 200kts.

[JagRigger]

I remember a few years ago at the RAF Model Aircraft Championship at West Raynham, having a Tornado fly through up the runway pretty low.

Would / should the the champs have been NOTAM'd?

[Hot Charlie]

There's certainly a model flying club on an airfield in Lincolnshire which is often directly overflown by aircraft in the LFS (seeing as it's bang in the middle of the Cranwell/ Coningsby gap). I can't ever remember seeing it in Notams or marked in the local warnings.

[OmegaV6]

Wroughton is used quite often by aeromodellers, They APPEAR to tell Lyneham ATC as we get plenty of warning about them .. :)

Seems a sensible thing to do IMHO.

Came close to hitting a smallish model - 4 ft wingspan ?? - some years back .. whilst lowlevel, always wondered how much damage one would do if the mighty Allison partook of a snack ...... :(

[NigelOnDraft]

Missed one by 3'-4' over disused AF (Metheringham?) just N of Cranwell / Coningsby gap some years back.... 250'. I ducked, and the HUD video caught it ;)

Within 2 mins the formation #2 (GR7) had ejected and crashed in the gap. He had not been within 1NM of Metheringham, and the "problem" that led to ejection had probably occurred a little earlier, so modellers @ said AF were likely inncocent :D

However, given the modeller(s) seeing their model get v close to (and probably not surviving) a GR7, and then seeing on the news a GR7 (£30M?) crashing <10NM away at the same time, they put 2 & 2 together, and unsurprisingly, the BoI never got any modeller to admit flying that day :eek:

NoD

[Buitenzorg]

Holland, mid-eighties.

National Gliding Centre, Terlet, near Arnhem. ASK-13 in the circuit on downwind at about 500' AGL collected an RC model in the front cockpit. The front-seat student lost an eye.

[pullup hard]

a squad mate of mine hit an RC Model plane while doing simulated gun runs on a Hawker Hunter. I do not know the speed at time of impact,since I did not fly Hunters, my guess would be around 400kts.
The Modell hit the nose slightly on the side then got (luckily) diverted to the leading edge, just out of the engine air intake!! and destroyed the external wingtank completely.
He made it back with a Mayday call to homebase, some 50nm away.
The a/c looked pretty bad.
Had it been a F-5 or a Hornet we all agreed it probably would have been a total loss.
Good old brit steel plane...
Guess what Air Force??:)
Tally Hoe!
puh

[rej]

OmegaV6

You are quite right; Wroughton and a number of other sites local to Lyneham advise them when they are operating. This is due in main to the ATC Sqn having worked hard to build a good relationship with the clubs and the UK's governing body in writing Letters of Agreement over conduct of model flying ops.

It always works if a good relationship is built between the various parties

[Bob Viking]

Did it turn the wing tank into Swiss cheese by any chance?!
BV;)
Do you think he'll crack my code?!

[henry crun]

I wouldn't think so Bob, it sounds more like he has been gardening.

[Occasional Aviator]

I have come over a ridge and found myself in a melee of model aircraft at Membury, which was not NOTAMed. It seems that it's all down to how professional the club is - there always used to be a near-permanent NOTAM for model flying at Henstridge (and of course the unmanned captive baloon at Pershore, which was NOTAMed for about 20 years continuously but I never once saw it).

[Dan D'air]

Reminds me of an incident involving a Harrier mate who had a low-level birdstrike through the plexi and still managed to land!! IIRC the phots were something else. Well done fella, whoever you are!!

[GPMG]

When I used to do RC model flying up to the age of 17, it used to be quite a specialist hobby. Most models had to be built yourself, the radio equipment and engines were pretty expensive and the best route in was to join a club.

My local club at Tempsford was always pretty strict on flying rules, no overflying the parked cars or pits etc. But the cardinal rule was that if a real aircraft seemed to be looking to do a fly by or circuit then all models were to be landed immediatley, no matter what. This obviously wouldn't have been much help to a fast mover coming in at low level as we would probably only had 3-5 second warning but for the stunt pilots that made regular visits and also the wonderful John Jordan (our chairman at the time) in his wonderfull Stearman, it was easy to get all models down.

The trouble now is that with the advance in electronics and the introduction of ready made models, it is now quite easy for anyone to just go out and buy a fast model of about 40-50" span for about £100 and then fly it in the local park /common /sport field.

Model flying is no longer as centralised to specific flying clubs and models and it doesn't have the same safety standards either.

The electric models on sale now have a motor and battery that will probably weigh about 1 - 1.5 lb and that popping through your windshield could focus the mind. Also the batteris will be Lithium so if they get damaged they will catch fire or explode.....which is nice.

By the way, someone mentioned a 6-8 ft model as being large, that is a pretty standard size model now, large models now consist of 1/2 scale SE5a's and Fokker Triplanes, 30ft span Hercs and B-29's, 1/10th scale C-17 and also a 40% scale Pitts Special.

http://image2-0.rcuniverse.com/e1/forum/upfiles/254777/Mh19230.jpg

[mr ripley]

Nearly hit one near Wellington, Somerset

Looked initially like a real aircraft and therefore seemed a lot further away.

[youngskywalker]

I've been involved with building and flying model aircraft since I was a small lad. All the clubs that I have been involved with took safety very seriously indeed. To fly at a club designated flying site we all have to be a member of a prefessional body such as the BMFA, LMA, SAA etc, they provide safety training schemes and 'Pilot' proficiency tests, also all members are fully insured against accidents. Unfortunatly like most things in life you get rogue elements who just buy a ready made model, try and fly it without proper training or supervision and are probably uninsured. These people dont care where they operate and will happily try and fly next to an airport or built up area and give the hobby a bad name. At the site I currently use (near Banchory in Scotland, well outside Aberdeen's controlled airspace) we do occasionaly see low flying fast jet traffic flying near by, sadly at the speeds they travel at they have passed before you even hear or see them so it would be impossible to try and avoid. Having said that we dont fly large aircraft which means that we dont fly very high (less than about 150 feet on average) as you simply would lose sight and be unable to control them at greater heights.

Some probably do think its a nerdy hobby, each to their own I say, pretty harmless and far worse things we could do! Quite a few professional Pilots that I know also take part in this activity and one or two ex RAF chaps at our club (one is even ex CFS) so they tend to bring a good safety culture to the hobby. It's not as easy as some may think, it does require teaching from somebody competent or you can gaurantee a black bin bag full of broken model by the end of the day!

In summary: most model flyers are pretty sensible and operate well away from full size aircraft. Responsible, designated clubs should notify any nearby airfields of the activity, I'm pretty sure that our lot have told the RAF so they can mark it on the charts. Sadly the minority make it worse for those of us enthusiasts who just like to play with aeroplanes whether big or small.

[wz662]

I remember seeing an accident report where an Air Cadet Sedburgh glider (so its exactly a recent incident) was hit whilst airborn by a model aircraft. The photo accompanying the report showed the model embeded in the rear fuselage of the glider. The report described the damage to the Barge as 'one longeron severed and another split.'Those of you who might remember the Barge, will realise that apart from four wood longerons the rest of the fusealge structure was dopped cotton.

[Double Zero]

The approach into Shoreham Airport from inland crosses a reasonably large hill which seems regularly used by R/C model aircraft; they were certainly close enough to be worth a special look-out, and a collision was distinctly on the cards.

We also flew through a large formation of microlights just East of there one day, completely unknown to ATC. Fortunately we were in a clapped-out Cessna 172 so the closing speed was relatively low.

A fair few years ago I remember a mention in 'Feedback' that a Tornado suffered what was thought to be a major birdstrike, may have lost an engine - can't remember all the details.

On inspection pieces of Futaba radio control kit & servo's were found imbedded in the relevant intake...

For anyone flying low over North Somerset, Crook's Peak in the Mendips ( a bit west of Axbridge & Cheddar ) is a very active R/C site well worth avoiding.

[EyesFront]

Those of you who might remember the Barge, will realise that apart from four wood longerons the rest of the fusealge structure was dopped cotton.


With fond memories of evening flights, waffling along at < 30kts in the barge, I presume the model aircraft struck the T21 rather than vice versa...

[tegwin]

Silly question, but if the aircraft you are in happens to be armed, would the aircrafts self defence system not pick up the heat of a large jet powered model aircraft heading towards you (assuming its a missile) at a fast pace and either warn you, or simply blast the offending article out of the sky before it gets near you?

[sisemen]

So, let's sum up this thread

....in the blue corner we have the folks that have either smashed into or know about someone who has smashed into a R/C model aircraft......

.......and in the red corner we have the folks who admit to flying R/C model aircraft but who never, never, ever transgress the rules and conflict with the real ones.

I spy some inconsistencies somewhere :}

[Dan D'air]

With fond memories of evening flights, waffling along at < 30kts in the barge

Ah sigh the T-21. Did my first solo in one. Felt like a sky God!!

[GPMG]

and in the red corner we have the folks who admit to flying R/C model aircraft but who never, never, ever transgress the rules and conflict with the real ones.


I think the RC guys were talking about their own clubs who fly on known flying fields. Surely there would have been some kind of communication between the RAF and the governing body (BMFA, LMA etc) or vice versa?

It is in your interest as some of these models take a long time to build and are works of art, it would be tragic if you stomped all over it with your yucky tonka bully bird :) :)

Also the way you use "folks who admit to flying R/C".......it's not some kind of bondage or minor drug use.:\

[Piper_Driver]

So, let's sum up this thread

....in the blue corner we have the folks that have either smashed into or know about someone who has smashed into a R/C model aircraft......

.......and in the red corner we have the folks who admit to flying R/C model aircraft but who never, never, ever transgress the rules and conflict with the real ones.

I spy some inconsistencies somewhere :}



It is a good bet that anyone posting on this forum is more than a casual observer of aviation. As such they are likely not the type who would be idiotic enough to fly an R/C model in a place likely to be frequented by any kind of air traffic. It's the casual hobbiest that goes down to his local hobby store, buys a $200 model, and flies it without regard to any kind of safety that you need to worry about.

Most serious modelers (those who have been in the hobby for a while) are very safety aware. They go to great pains to protect spectators, other hobbiests, aircraft, and their own models. The "toys" shown in the video at the top of this thread cost upwards of $10,000. I don't know many people who take undue risks with stuff that cost that much money.

[Piper_Driver]

I used to fly R/C models, and I know many professional pilots who do so.

One thing to remember is that anyone posting on this forum is likely to have a respect for professional aviation, and not be stupid enough to fly a model anywhere it could potentially endanger aircraft. It's the casual hobbiest - the one who runs down to his local hobby store and buys a $200 toy - that you have to worry about. The guys with the big expensive heavy aircraft (like were shown in the video at the top of the thread) are VERY safety aware.

[brakedwell]

I must admit to building and flying scale R/C model up until the mid eighties, but I only flew them on Shoreham airport after it closed at 1800. The Anson required a CAA exemption certificate as it was over the weight limit at the time. Apart from the Storch, the models had retractable undercarriages and needed the runway's smooth surface to operate from. The gliders flew from Truleigh Hill on the east side of the approach to RW 20

RWiaircrafthttp://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/Harvard.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/Spitflying.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/9e6a1889.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/FieslerStorchlandingatShoreham.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/Scale%20Model%20Aircraft/Harvardairborne.jpg

[Double Zero]

Tegwin,

What sort of 'self defence system' have you in mind fitted to aircraft ?

As far as I know, if you're really lucky you might get something that goes ' bleep ' and chucks out chaff or flares as it thinks appropriate, but I don't think there's anything like an auto cannon / missile / laser to blast incoming bad news like a warship's goalkeeper...

A jamming system on R/C frequencies might be worth a laugh, or may just exacerbate the problem and shift the blame.

[youngskywalker]

I think that the amount of times that a model aircraft has actually collided with a full size is probably very small, I would have thought that bird strikes posed a far greater risk. As a Pilot of full size aircraft myself I do see things from both sides but at the end of the day the vast majority operate these models with care and attention to others. Live and let live. If you fly an aircraft at very low level and high speed outside controlled airspace then surely that must come with some risk, whether that be birds, paragliders, hangliders, power lines or model aircraft.

[davejb]

There is, essentially, a requirement for model aircraft flyers to avoid flying in controlled airspace in such a manner as to endanger aircraft. The official clubs try very hard indeed to ensure this is treated very seriously - unfortunately if you are flogging round at 3 ft 6" outside controlled airspace then the best a model flyer can do is avoid what (s)he has time to avoid... and if you are flogging around at several hundred knots then that scale model Tiger Moth just isn't going to get out of the way in time.

I can't help wondering where some of these airmiss events occurred - I can understand how the odd valley up here in Scotland might lead to very low level flight, but what the **** was a glider doing low enough for a model a/c to hit it - or was the model being flown over the airfield the gliding was occurring at? (For one example)... nobody with an actual brain - second hand, transplanted from a marrow or not - would fly a model on the approach/departure path of a runway, for example. Even BIG models are quite small when actually flying, the mk1 eyeball tends to limit the range and altitude soemwhat.

A regular flyer will be more than happy to avoid colliding with you.

The 'rogue' modeler - the guy who buys the ready to fly job without bothering to join a club or get any help is unlikely to be flying anything very large, and they won't be flying it very high in all probability (it's hard to spot a 40" span Cessna when it's 800 yds downwind, climbing through 250 ft).

Perhaps it might be an idea if there was a website with zoomable OS style maps on, which clubs and individuals could check to see if somebody was planning to fly at zero feet from A to B during some specific time period... that way the model lot could ensure they were gorunded when a real aircraft needed the airspace. Modelers being keen spotter types would doubtless be more than happy to keep the pride and joy grounded for 20 minutes while some interesting fast jets went past.

Dave

[inbalance]

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_010/nn_41544/DE/Publikationen/Untersuchungsberichte/1997/Bericht__97__3X306-1-2,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Bericht_97_3X306-1-2.pdf

this is a link (german only) to an accident report of a Grob 109 powered glider colliding with a 10 kg model aircraft. 4.3 meter of the right wing broke off and the G109 crashed killing both occupants.

[youngskywalker]

A truly terrible tragedy but who has the sole right to use the uncontrolled airspace? Whats the answer? Do we ban all model flying? How do you stop idiots flying near airfields with full size activity? I've been involved in model flying for over 25 years and thankfully never witnessed or even heard of any model/full size accidents.

Interestingly if you look at most of the technology used in the manufacture and flying of military UAV's they are from the model flying world. The engines, airframe, control systems have all been developed from 50 years or so of RC model flight.

Maybe better communication from both sides would help, go along one day to the local model flying site and see for yourselves what goes on, you might be surprised at the level of technology and understanding of aerodynamics from us 'nerds!'

Your average model flyer is probably a middle aged or retired gent, probably from a professional background, quite often an engineer or retired airline Pilot, these people are not spotty 17 year olds who terrorise the pensioners on street corners wearing a hoody!:E

[ShyTorque]

I wasn't too impressed only a few weeks ago at the sight of a red R/C model at 1500 ft.

It was inside the Heathrow control zone, just north west of Brent reservoir, probably being flown by someone out of Fryent Country Park. Not only is that a very commonly used route and altitude for rotary wing in and out of Battersea, but also 5 nms on the Northolt instrument approach.

[Papa Whisky Alpha]

I have just dug out my old log book, found an entry for July 1975.
RAF Odiham, instructing with the Army Gliding Club. At 450' downwind in a T21 when an aircraft appeared climbing straight ahead of our a/c immediately followed by a loud "twang". The pupil somehow had headed towards the footwell, still strapped in!! On landing it transpired that the "aircraft" was in fact a model of about 10' span still on it's launching cable(fishing Line). The T21 had what looked like a hacksaw cut extending through the "D" box to a depth of about 4 inches about three feet away from the vicinty of the pupil's head.

[youngskywalker]

Fair do's, I give in. It should be banned, I'm taking up golf instead!

[The Flying Stool]

On one occasion last year I was gliding out of Portmoak airfield on the shores of Loch Leven. For those of you unfamiliar with the airfield, its primarily a gliding airfield with two ridges along the shore of the Loch which gliders generally fly back and forth along in order to gain some height before heading off elsewhere to look for some thermals/wave.

On the said occasion, there were about 5 gliders 'ridge bashing', all of which were following the standard procedure (going the same way) when some guys with model gliders turned up and unknown to most of us, began flying them randomly amongst all of manned gliders.

I glanced around keeping a good lookout as one does when I saw a model glider heading straight for my cockpit that looked like it was certainly within 10-15meters. I took evading action but this could have put both me and the other manned gliders on the ridge in serious danger of a collision!

Was definately a brown trouser moment.

I dont mind model aircraft sharing the same airspace as manned gliders but it would be helpful if they followed the same procedures as the rest of us! :ok:

[BEagle]

Taxying to the tower at Benson to get out and watch my student's circuits, a golf ball hit the ground in front of the right wing, then bounced over it and hit the fuselage.....

So I pocketed it, sent my student on his merry way, then watched the saddos hunting around for the ball.

Only station I know where golf was permitted on the aerodrome whilst flying was in progress. Lots of retired old duffers :bored: wandering around with their bats, never mind the hazard to aircraft.

I left the ball in a fire bucket.

[Fareastdriver]

In the mid 70s there was a lot of model aircraft flying at Nutts Corner, near Aldergrove. It was on one our our entry routes and on several occasions there were near misses on the way in. They had just fitted the Pumas with some gawd awful multi frequency radio that couldn't communicate with anybody. What it could do if you selected 27megs and transmitted with about 100 watts was to jam up the model aircraft. It would go into either a full power spin or spiral dive. At about 30 ft. you released the button and gave it back to them.
Good unusual attitude training.

[BEagle]

Good job you didn't use it on the correct frequency then!

Presumably this was back in the days when the IRA were using R/C to detonate IEDs? So, fly around and press the Tx key every so often and with luck Mr Murphy's lads would go up with the device.

Thread drift. Before cellphones, I had a CB in my car. No, not to play that 'rubber duck' nonsense, but to get traffic info (once saved me from getting stuck on the M-way, thanks to a trucker's tip-off)....

Anyway, one of the things you had to do was to tune the antenna with a SWR meter. Transmit, set 'forward', adjust to show 1.0, then set 'reflected' and tune for minimum value. Excessive VSWR could damage your transmitter, as well as weakening the signal, so it was important to 'SWR' the antenna properly.

When the 'lower 40' CB channels became legal in the UK, I needed to retune the antenna to cover the whole range. But the 'lower 40' also covered R/C channels.....and a couple of lads nearby were testing their new car. I noticed that, whenever I transmitted on a particular channel, the thing would go to max chat and full steering deflexion.

This was too much fun! So, fo the next 5 minutes, every time they tried to pick it up I would key the Tx and it would scoot away from them. They never did find out what was causing the problem!

10-4

[green granite]

Whilst I suppose they will mainly use them over built up areas what about police UAV's? They, if used to cover say a car chase, won't be notamed.

[A and C]

If you fly low level in the south of England please note that Membury Airfield (just south of the services on the M4) has model aircraft activity Seven days a week dawn untill dusk and some light aircraft activity.

I have also flagged this up via the normal channels.

[spamcanner]

I was up at Waddington last week and was amazed to see golfers taking their swings next to a live taxyway
and runway! This was followed by someone walking their dog in the same area later on!:eek: I'm not sure about the incident at Benson but this was a station sanctioned golfing area with no fences or barriers. Seemed strange to us onlookers as we sat waiting for our jet to return.

[R SCANDAL]

A mate of mine managed to pick up a kite with his Herc on the way into Kabul. Unfortunately no video of a little Afghan boy water skiing 200 ft behind Albert. Would have been good for the "alternative ending" on the Kite Runner DVD.

[BEagle]

There have been a few near misses between airliners and these infernal drones, usually operated by people who haven't been taught about airspace co-ordination.

For example, this A300 nearly collided with a drone when on the approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NOar22TX2k

Which is why the UAV operator community needs to learn to walk before they try to run!

[Synthetic]

The approach into Shoreham Airport from inland crosses a reasonably large hill which seems regularly used by R/C model aircraft; they were certainly close enough to be worth a special look-out, and a collision was distinctly on the cards.

That would probably be us. We fly here (http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=50.864321&lon=-0.345295&z=19.1&r=0&src=ggl). We liase closely with Shoreham airport, hold our club nights there and fly at the airfield itself with their permission. As I understand it there is a NOTAM to the effect. I will confirm with the comittee.

We do occasionally get buzzed by full size:=

[wz662]

Oh not Kites as well. A well known large military grass airfield used to rent out the airfield for kite festivals. Whilst sat in the restraunt of the adjacent military museum I watched one of the resident historic flight aircraft land on an area of the airfield well away from the kites (Middle Wallop is a large airfield and Austers don't need that much to land in.... Oops I've given it away).However during the taxy back to the apron the propellor collected the string from an errant kite, my colleague saw the girl at one end of the string fly off the ground whilst I just saw the Auster's prop stop, the pilot climb out and using his knife cut the offending string free, climb back in and restart the engine and complete his taxy.Once we stopped laughing we had a good discussion about how many miles the rules say you have to away from an airfield when flying a kite.

[Fareastdriver]

Tradition has it that the Chinese invented kites and it is one of their national pastimes. Flying across Shenzhen at the regulation 300 metres you have to keep your eyes peeled for them if it is a good day with about 15 knots of wind. Some of them are big, 4 or 5 metres across, and a lot of them are at your height. Some of them are a damned sight higher.
Ther is no problem at night. The only thing you have to do is switch all your external lights off so that rooftop tripod mounted lasers cannot find you.

[goneeast]

Wasnt there an accident report in mid 80's where a jag hit a model sustaining cat 3 damage?

Also the first picture on this thread...I didnt know Phill Jupitus was into aircraft models !

[GPMG]

Synthetic, I can't see for definate, but I bet there is a Wot 4 in there somewhere.

[Synthetic]

More likely 4 or 5. There Might even be a Mr C. Foss himself.

[Greenleader]

Can't believe there are still people flying wot4's! Surely Mr Foss could have designed something better by now! ;) Still, if people keep buying them... IMHO, there is only one type of model to fly - something that flies low, goes fast and turns left! :E Pylon racers rarely get above 50ft, so chances of collision with full size are small! And the drivers are less geeky - no bull$**t because the clock doesn't lie! ;)

Yes - I admit! :}

[Synthetic]

The reason they have lasted this long is simply that they are the most versatile model ever. I learnt to fly on one, yet when you see what Mr F can do with his, you tend to pack up and go home.

Imagine a Cessna 152 and an Edge 540 roled into one aircraft.

(Sorry for the thread creep:O)

[The Burning Bush]

Yes, several. Castlemartin, early 90's. Scorpion AAA firing :E

[JagRigger]

I remember the Jag incident and the posting in Feedback - it was reported as Jag Cat 1, Model Cat 5 ;)

[glad rag]

These guys have some interesting footage, and it ain't anything to do with the Mach loop either!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Jetex Jim]

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/rapgal/rapgrp1.jpg

Here are some stick and tissue flying models, unlikely to be more than 2 ounces, not much of a hazard - free flying rocket powered.

As Herr Dorfmann explains in 'Flight of the Phoenix' - free flight model flying is much harder than fullsize, and he found both navigators AND pilots to be unneccessary.

[BEagle]

So be a complete anorak and tell us which model manufacturer's catalogue he showed to James Stewart et al....

Aeromodelling ought to be compulsory for schoolkids - not only does it teach the basics of aeroplane control and stability, but also the virtues of patience and precision. At my prep school, we all had to make 'chuck gliders' from a few sheets of balsa wood - no-one else to blame if yours speared in whilst others flew well!

Although the elf 'n safety tosseurs have probably banned x-acto and Swann-Morton modelling knives, Britfix 66 balsa cement, Humbrol cellulose dope, model engine fuels and all the other hazchems we used to play with at the age of 11.

As for starting a PAW 19 BR with one's bare fingers....:eek: That would cause the huggy-fluffies to have apoplexy!

[Buster11]

Taking up Beags's point on the H&S industry, it does seem to be doing untold damage to the general public's perception of risk and probability. While the red-tops headline with stories of children being dragged off into the bushes, - and one accepts that this is a personal tragedy for the immediate family, - several million other kids weren't dragged off that day.

Could it be due to some extent to the abysmal state of teaching of science and maths over the past several decades in the UK? There seems to be an almost total disconnection with reality on the part of many, including those in what passes for government. Just think of Dunblane and of dangerous dogs.

I couldn't agree more regarding the inclusion of aeromodelling on the curriculum. It gets one in touch with cause and effect, that maths is useful, with the fact that one can actually make something that works as intended, and that real tools require real care. Having started my own career in model flying when a Swann Morton scalpel was an unheard of luxury and we used double-sided razor blades, you quickly got the idea that handling things carelessly could hurt.

The standard method of getting to the contents of the lead tube of balsa cement was to bite off the hardened blob on the nozzle, no doubt ingesting a good dose of lead acetate in the process, and my formative years were spent sleeping in my bedroom where I did my model building, in an atmosphere of dope fumes from the evening's activities. Mixing one's own diesel fuel involved going to Boots and buying four ounces of amyl nitrate and a pint of ether, sold without undue signs of seizure from the pharmacist. What's more, we all survived and quite a few progressed to careers in research, the Royal Air Force or as technical professionals.

[Jetex Jim]

Anorak mode active

Herr Dorfman would have to work for Graupner I reckon.

But in the book the same character is British, he works for a company called Klee Kraft and his name is Stringer!

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/nats2005/phoenix1.jpg

Anorak mode stby

[BEagle]

Es war nicht Graupner!

[nipva]

Wasnt there an accident report in mid 80's where a jag hit a model sustaining cat 3 damage?

Indeed, and the story at the time was that the strike was to the Jaguars jet pipe which caused much mirth amongst the rest of RAFG.

[Jetex Jim]

Minor anorak malfunction, that's Schuco!!

Having got the DVD out.

[BEagle]

Correct - Schuco-Hegi it was indeed!

[Jetex Jim]

http://www.icarusbooks.com/images/4504.jpg

I reckon if Dormann hadn't gone off to fly his Komet, having robbed the Coffman cartridges of some of their charge in order to power it, they'd have been home a sight sooner anyways.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t281/mcdoggy/Komet003.jpg

[c130 alm]

I was in the cupola in a C130K flying low level through Wales when I saw what looked like a bird coming towards us. I was just about to call "bird left wing" when I saw it was a model aircraft and it went over the top of us. Too close for comfort!