USA CPL IR FI validity in the UK

[Wigan Warrior]

Apologies in advance if this has been done to death on this forum, but when I searched I couldn’t find the answer I was looking for. Anyway….

Presently I have a JAR PPL with night & IMC ratings (and an AOPA aeros rating) with 400+ hours pic.
I started to do my CPL in the UK with the goal of becoming a flying instructor.
I have do not wish to do an ATPL as I don’t want to do passenger flying per se, I just want to instruct.

I have recently been transferred to work in the USA.
I am looking at doing a CPL / IR / FI course over here (at half the cost of the UK).
The advice I seek is, if I successfully gain the FAA qualifications over here, on my return to the UK, what will I need to do in order to become a UK flying instructor (SEP)?

Are the FAA quals valid back in Blighty?

[BigGrecian]

Firstly your posting in the wrong forum - Flying Instructors and Examiners forum is where you want to be - where the question was recently answered.

Have you looked in LASORS?!?

You will still have to sit the CPL exams - which can only be done in the UK.
The ATPL exams which would cover the IR can be sat in the US.

FAA licences would be valid on N-Reg aircraft but not G-Reg aircraft - may as well just train the JAA stuff in the first place - it'll be cheaper in the end.

Conversion wise to JAA :
CPL (Can be completed in the US)
Can be converted training as required. (Can be completed in the US) Word of warning, no necessarily cheaper or easy - I have seen many students struggle FAA > JAA CPL.
FI (Can be completed in the US)
Pretty much a 15 hour course to convert plus relevant groundschool.

The JAA FI is more in depth - rather than the training as required (3 minimum) for the FAA CFI.

Good luck.

[chrisbl]

To give flight instruction you will need to have a JAR FI rating, to be paid, you will need a JAR CPL.

[Mordacai]

sqwkvfr,

I think it's always hard converting from one system to another, no matter which way around you do it..no doubt due to primacy.

I am appalled that you decided to openly divulge the contents of a private conversation in this forum. This was not in the least bit helpful to the topic starter, or anyone else for that matter.

For the record, my opinion in the matter is that the JAA CPL flight test is a far more valid assesment of an applicants ability to perform a safe, expeditious public transport flight. If you want specifics, I refer you to CAA standards document 03, and the relevant FAA practical test standards booklet.

I'm afraid the difficulty of an FAA commercial checkride, and also instructor checkride for that matter, is always going to depend on which examiner conducts the test. I have noticed a horrendous lack of standardisation between these individuals over the years.

Wigan Warrior - best of luck in the furure, but as was pointed out, there is a wonderful document called LASORS -please go use it!

[BigGrecian]

Squakvfr - I invite you or your students to come and do a JAA Commercial/FI with us before you comment, since you only have FAA Licences. :ugh:

Also suggest you plan on more than training as required. ;)

After this exchange I fully understood that bigoted attitudes like his -as opposed to logic- are the REAL reason that and FAA certificate isn't accepted in certain parts of the world.


Unfortunately, and I hate to say it, basically due to horrendous lack of standardisation amongst DPEs, and a resulting very low standard of airmanship,
which I consistently see demonstrated by FAA commercial pilots .... :sad:

[Mordacai]

Sounds like a big winge to me! What is your axe to grind Mr swawkvfr? Has flying the 'cube' around Phoenix, back into Goodyear got a little easy?

Once again your post contains no facts. DPE's undergo yearly renewals, and some of them are very good examiners, but where are the commercial considerations? Where is the airmanship? Sad fact is that most of my student pilots could fly a profile to FAA commercial PTS standards - and that's all it is, a bunch of flying standards! No wonder this certificate is not accepted in most parts of the world.

Common weak points I have noted during FAA - JAA conversions include:

Unable to naviagate by any other techninqe but feature crawling. Unable to plan an airbourne diversion.
Unable to fly by visual reference to the natural horizon, poor lookout, poor airmanship (aeronautical decision making).
Unable to execute a simulated forced landing, using a safe and valid fundamental techinque.
Unable to fully stall an aeroplane, or even describe or explain the symptoms of a fully developed stall. Poor recovery technique.
Very poor full panel instrument scan, very poor limited panel instrument scan, and inability to monitor aircraft systems, and/or position during IMC flight.
Poor cockpit organisation.
Zero commercial passenger considerations.

I could go on...:=

[youngskywalker]

Fcuk!! I'm cancelling my trip to the States that i have just booked with Northwest Airlines. Are those guys really that bad? :eek:

[BigGrecian]

To me the argument is very simple.

I instruct both FAA and JAA Commercial. I'm guessing you did your CPL in the US and have little UK flying / IR experience.

If you instruct at Oxford Aviation then I totally understand where your coming from regarding the JAA CPL. Unfortunately I group FAA CPL and Oxford graduates in the same skill set - from plenty of previous experience. :E

When someone sends me a FAA > JAA CPL Conversion who is of more than below average ability, I'll let you know ;) As stated I've seen more often than not 15 hour conversion, and a couple of times more than 25 hours!!! (That's more than the full course!)
The skills of these pilots at both CPL and IR level speak for themselves. The is zero point in discussing the course content and PTS, doc 3 etc.
There is no further discussion beyond the skill level output, and if it were of a high enough standard there would be no conversions required to the JAA. You even stated the FAA courses are not universally accepted!

DPEs do undergo yearly standardisation, this is true, I just think all they standardise is their pay checks. :D

PS - Let me know when your passengers ask you to do 8s on Pylons. :ok:

[youngskywalker]

sqwkvfr

I was being sarcastic! I fly a King Air professionaly in the UK using my (sub-standard FAA CPL/IR), or rather I did!

I just cant be bothered arguing anymore with some of the small minded tossers on here who critisize the FAA system constantly, it gets somewhat tiresome.

I fear you are wasting your time, It's best just to let them get on with it...the rest of us are too busy actually flying aircraft and not telling people on here how good we are!

[BigGrecian]

Squakvfr you obviously work at Oxford - enough said.
Go visit a non integrated school which has to do things properly.
Most CPL/IR students I've had from Oxford can't land either. Before you comment on Oxfords pass rate - we all know it's high. We also all know that when they get to us, that they often need remedial training before starting other courses.

You've summed it up perfectly, by the way, manoeuvre, manoeuvre, being a commercial pilot IS NOT JUST about manoeuvres!! That's exactly why the FAA CPLs often lack in airman ship and captaincy!

It all boils down to the following anyhow:
would hold almost any properly trained FAA PPL holder

Anybody properly trained - unfortunately not many schools provide proper training anymore :*
I am pretty sure your FAA CPLs would convert but I'm just saying they are let down by a large majority of sub standard ones. Unfortuantely, both systems have a large number of sub standard ones - the FAA system compounded by the DPE un standardisation.

PS I look forward to receiving your paycheck in the mail :D

[Mordacai]

Sqwkvfr

I never directly insulted your flying ability, as you did mine. I am sure you are a very fine instructor and pilot with the ratings you hold....I would have got to find out personally had I accepted the position Oxford offered me recently.

Seriously though, what is going on up there for you to think that any flight test is easy? I know Mr Davidson personally, and don't think he's the sort of guy who gives licences away. The FAA commercial checkride is certainly not easy either, but I'm a bit tired of the pissing contest, so will conclude that both have their good points and bad points.

My main job at the moment is training FAA MEI candidates, and I'm fully qualified under both systems, so I'm pretty sure I could indeed execute a reasonable 8's on pylon, or lazy 8 (although why I would want to commercially is still unknown to me).

All you have really achieved through your posts is concern me deeply about the quality of JAA training and testing in Phoenix.

FAA DPE standardisation is an ongoing issue, there does seem to a vast disparity in the quality of output, I can only say it as I see it.

By the way, I totally agree with you about flying with a 250 hour superpilot in the right hand seat......that is a good point - in my opinion any carrier from any system that operates in this fashion is basically operating a single pilot operation.

Anyway, y'all be safe!