R22 crash near Toronto

[rotornut]

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_21878.aspx

[KNIEVEL77]

Blimey, looking at the photo its a miracle they escaped with their lives.

How common are 'practice autorotation' accidents?

[tegwin]

I know of atleast two at one of the local FTO's near me....Thats in the last 12 months....


Both very unforunate...one resulted in a buckled tail boom, and the other resulted in a total loss.... All ocupants on both occasions were un harmed!

Sorry about the spelling, typig one handed whilst eating a cream bun is tricky!

[rotornut]

At the school where I learned for fly, they lost one of 2 Hughes 300Cs in an auto accident - fortunately no injuries but the machine was a writeoff.

[widgeon]

Wow just about in my own backyard , I did hear a helicopter flying around yesterday. Looks like thet were very lucky.

[rotorcraig]

Excellent quote from Flight Training Services Phyl Durdey

"What they were probably doing was practicing what's called auto rotation," ... "What it is is basically a controlled crash.":ugh:

RC

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Suggestion for the two Pax,

Buy a lottery ticket,.:ok:.................and get better at "Controlled Crashes":=

VfrpilotPB/2
Peter R-B

[helimutt]

K77, too frequently!!!http://www.helicoptersafety.org/genericaccident.asp?Keyword=Engine%20Off%20Landing%20Practic e


Hope there wasn't two pax onboard, ;)

Note the mention of a school. The media never fail to report schools in the vicinity of a crash. :ugh:

[Turkey32]

which helicopter company was this???

[Overdrive]

Note the mention of a school. The media never fail to report schools in the vicinity of a crash. :ugh:



...and more subtley, "future site of a new housing subdivision". Could've been a disaster if it had happened in a year from now.... :eek:

[helimutt]

I know. Could have landed on a cement mixer. !!:eek:

[206Fan]

I know. Could have landed on a cement mixer. !!

Or the onsite tea hut :eek:

[georden]

:eek: i learned to fly in that R22 :{

transport canada lists owner as Great Lakes Helicopter Corp.

was owned by Helicopter Training Corp before that (when i flew it last)

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Helimutt,

By the suggestion of 2 Pax, I meant that once you are out of the pilots control Ie Controlled Crash leading to actual Crash, then whatever you may like to call yourself,.... you are but a Pax!;)

VfrpilotPB

Peter R-B

[TrT]

I am guessing this Helicopter is used for training, Pilot Training??

Also the presenter walks up to a civilian and asks a question, was the guy supposed to say no or get more airtime on TV and then watch it later with his friends. Or maybe he is concerned.....

[moosp]

In answer to the second post on this thread, yes knievel, unfortunately they are more common than you might think. Indeed more helicopters are lost and lives with them during training for engine failures in R22s than have ever been lost in actual engine failures.

It's a combination of things. Firstly once a national aviation authority gets a training process for a type written, they are very reluctant to change anything. They are civil servants. So if they put into the training requirements for a PPL or CPL twenty years ago that autorotations must be tested on the licence test, they must be trained, practiced and then demonstrated on that test. Even when the manufacturer of the current training type says that he considers it unnecessarily dangerous to practice them, and the relevant country authority agrees, still the licence requirements will remain.

If you are not familiar with the autorotation case, in just about every common helicopter you can, within a degree of acceptable risk, (and yet I would be open to argument on this) practice autorotations to a flare and either hover or go-around. Unfortunately there are some authorities that still insist that autorotations are demonstrated in the flight test to a landing. This adds a considerable risk to the procedure both under training and test. As the pilot at this stage might have as few as 40 (ppl) or 105 (cpl) hours on type the requirement leads to a totally unacceptable number of accidents during this manoeuver.

I am familiar with a case in a state in Australia where a new Flight Operations Inspector with limited knowledge of the R22 is insisting on touchdown autos on CPL check rides. Many CFIs disagree as it is well known that if you can demonstrate completion to a stationary or slow forward motion hover then the safety of the occupants is almost assured. Frank Robinson agrees.

Which leads on to the next point. Some individuals both examiners and instructors feel that what was good enough for them in the Huey is good enough for this young upstart in an R22. In other words, ego problems. Threat and error management takes a long time to filter down to some people, and even then it is seen as the latest fad.

Sad really.