William borrows a company Vehicle.....

[scudpilot]

Just seen (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1313040,00.html)this on Sky... sorry if it's already posted elsewhere.....

But surely any serving officer could do this?????

[Farmer 1]

So, who's this bloke William Borrow, and why is he a company vehicle?

[StopStart]

Damn....beat me to it. :{

[The Helpful Stacker]

Wouldn't that be "William Borrows, a company vehicle"?

[charliegolf]

Are we sure there weren't two William Borrows, who accompanied a vehicle?:ok:

CG

[OCDave]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/prince-william-to-use-hms-invincible-as-a-bottle-opener-20080416874/

[spheroid]

But the RAF insists it was a legitimate training exercise to teach William how to fly over water.


"Right Wills, now the tricky bit of your training - Flying over water. Here we are flying S&L over the land. The aircraft is trimmed out and all we need to do now is look for the coast. You will recognise the coast as it is normally found between the land and the sea.

There we are, we fly over the coast and then keeping the aircraft S&L we fly over the sea.... tricky isn't it but I'm sure you will soon get the hang of it"

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Oh dear Spheroid, you neglected to perform your Coasting Out checks which ensure that the aircraft is prepared to fly over water in safety. You consequently were unsafe, you've failed your sortie and now you're in the sh1t.

I'm getting sick to death of media muppets and others pontificating on Chinooks ops that they haven't the first f-----g clue about. If you don't know what you're talking about do the decent thing and STFU.

[Clockwork Mouse]

He didn't borrow a chopper and use it as a taxi as the press headlines state. He took part as crew in a legitimate authorised training sortie and disembarked at one of the stops while the aircraft returned to base. Completely normal and not at all newsworthy.

But then SHOCK HORROR he reportedly went to a PARTY and ENJOYED HIMSELF! Immediately newsworthy! Summon the fun police! Every idiot with an axe to grind in the media, House of (very) Commons etc immediately leaps on the band wagon, including quite a few on Prune.

The general public doesn't know any better. Those posting on Prune should, chips on shoulder permitting of course.

Non event turned into holier than thou mudslinging fest by ignorami.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Sky producer Lorna Ward, who is also an officer in the Army Corps, saidit's rare to allow a passenger, even military, on a training flight.

Anyone ever heard of the Army Corps? Meticulous investigative journalism at it's finest. No military passengers on training flights - utter horse sh1t! Do they just sit in a Fleet Street pub and guess? I think we know the answer to that one.:ugh:

[Jackonicko]

"He took part as crew in a legitimate authorised training sortie."

Right.

So why did a recently passed out (that afternoon) pilot, who leaves the RAF in two weeks time, who will not be posted to any frontline type or unit, and who will make no "return of service" need to undertake a training sortie in a Chinook (authorised or otherwise)?

I can see that it might be deemed useful and appropriate to attach him to a Chinook squadron on exercise, getting him to man the ops desk, and flying him as a co-pilot and as an extra loadie on a few sorties actually carrying troops. At least that would enhance his military education as an Army JO.

But to undertake a flying training sortie, per se, on an operational aircraft type (as opposed to flying him on a more representative sortie) seems to be unnecessary and - in the light of the ongoing defence cuts - a disgusting waste of money.

And who are we kidding? Technically this may have been authorised as a flying training sortie, but that's a fig-leaf to cover what was a taxi service for W&H to go to a party. How often do Chinook OCU sorties include a landing in London to pick up a passenger before terminating at Bembridge?

How many other students have gone straight from their wings parade to any form of authorised training sortie that afternoon?

And why wasn't he having a beer with his course mates?

I don't especially mind that the second in line to the throne was flown, at public expense, to a private party (Though isn't that more what 32 are for? Wouldn't it have been cheaper by A109 or Squirrel?).

What grips me is that people think that the public are stupid enough to swallow this nonsense about it being a normal and legitimate training sortie. If we're going to treat the Royals differently, lets have the courage of our convictions and be honest about it, and not sink to New Labour levels of spin, deceit and trickery.

Whoever thought that this was a good idea is either afflicted with an astonishing degree of F-wittery (it was bound to attract attention) or a breathtaking degree of arrogance.

Or both.

And while I'm banging on about it, had he fulfilled the normal requirements for the award of wings?

It would be interesting to compare William's training with what is usually required for the award of wings.

Don't you have to complete EFTS and BFTS to get wings, at the moment (there was a time, IIRC, when you had to finish AFTS at Valley, wasn't there?) or get to the equivalent stage at Shawbury (Griffin?)? Wings are hard-earned and that's why they're accorded the respect they are. They imply that the wearer has qualified and is competent, and there is an inference that they have some specific competences in formation and instrument flying, etc.

And isn't there an alternative? Could he not have been awarded the PFB? What are the qualifications for that, now?

So how many hours did he fly in the respective types? Tutor, Tucano, Squirrel? (Dual/solo hours, how many sorties, did he take and pass the normal Basic Handling Test, Final Handling Test, Advanced Flying Test in any of the aircraft flown, and did he fly with a 'safety pilot' in his helicopter and Tucano 'solo' flights).

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's great that he, as our future head of state, did the flying he did. It's great that he did go and look at the RAF and get an insight into how others are trained.

But if he didn't earn wings, then his being awarded them surely devalues the badge. They should be worn ONLY if won on merit.

And what's next? Perhaps a single stroll across Dartmoor and he can have a green beret and commando dagger? Or a day's classroom teaching and a tower jump and he can put up para wings? And wouldn't a DFC and an AFC look nice under those wings. Why not blur the qualifications for those, as well?

[L J R]

Anyone that can move a hydraulic palm tree over London deserved wings in my opinion.:ok:

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Come on Jacko, you know better than that, surely?

How often do Chinook OCU sorties include a landing in London to pick up a passenger before terminating at Bembridge?

I flew through the London helilanes doing simulated or real pickups and dropoffs at London Helicopter Landing Sites on numerous occasions on AFT and OCU (and regularly thereafter). I also have often had deadheading passengers on trips, be the aircrew, blunties, pongos or matelots.

STOP PRESS - sometimes they even get off at an en-route landing site that is in some way convenient for them! Maybe in their subsequent off duty time they have a few beers with their mates. HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!

The rights and wrongs of Wills' RAF famil and wings issue have been debated ad nauseam already. In precis, you're wrong.;)

[Winco]

I don't have a problem with Wills using the aircraft at all - on the contrary, I'm all for it. However...

it's not that easy to justify the use of a Chinook, especially when the SH boys are suposedly hurting so bad at the moment, is it?

[anotherthing]

Jackonicko - What Wills did is nothing out of the ordinary - some of my best nights out/weekends away have been as a result of training flights of some type or another... I bet there are very few military aviators who can honestly say that they have not taken part in a training flight which has resulted in an over-nighter somewhere.

What grips me is that people think that the public are stupid enough to swallow this nonsense about it being a normal and legitimate training sortie. If we're going to treat the Royals differently, lets have the courage of our convictions and be honest about it, and not sink to New Labour levels of spin, deceit and trickery.
Wrong.
but that's a fig-leaf to cover what was a taxi service for W&H to go to a party.Wrong

It would be interesting to compare William's training with what is usually required for the award of wings. Jealousy?


And what's next? Perhaps a single stroll across Dartmoor and he can have a green beret and commando dagger? Or a day's classroom teaching and a tower jump and he can put up para wings? And wouldn't a DFC and an AFC look nice under those wings. Why not blur the qualifications for those, as well?

Ridiculous statement with a splash of jealousy thrown in?

Winco - you are 100% correct - there is a major shortage of helos in-theatre... However, you still need some back in the UK to train both new crews and crews about to go out on rotation.

[Clockwork Mouse]

Winco
Justify the use of a Chinook for what? Do you suggest that the SH Force stop training because the boys in the sand-pits are short of aircraft?

[foldingwings]

Jacko does have a point, however.

In my 39 years of aircrew life, I had many an enjoyable weekend away as the result of a 'training sortie' - we called them rangers on the FJ fleet.

However, I had completed advanced flying training, was fully qualified on type, had completed an OCU and was operational on my squadron.

Having got his wings that afternoon, on one of the shortest pilot courses ever and without having done AFTS and a Chinook conversion course, HRH was NOT learning how to fly over the 'oggin! We ALL know that of course.

So please don't anyone try to pretend that it was something other than what it was - a training flight for the qualified crew that was arranged to take in a few ports of call that happened to suit the boys' itinerary for a weekend stag party on IoW! Nothing more, nothing less and nothing wrong with it either as the crew undoubtedly benefitted from the (allegedly) £15K that was spent completing it. Wills and his brother would have been no more than pax with the royal prerogative to have a seat up front for some of the time.

What's the hoohaa about? But Jacko does make a very good point - tell the truth and stop the spin!

Foldie

[Airborne Aircrew]

Jackonicko:
They imply that the wearer has qualified and is competent, and there is an inference that they have some specific competences in formation and instrument flying, etc.You shoot down your own argument with the words you use... "Imply" and "inference" indicate clearly to the reader that there is no guarantee of the competence/ies to which you refer which is absolutely accurate. That being the case, Wills is entirely entitled to his wings and the remainder post is therefore reduced to jealous whining.

It's people like you who, because they aren't benefiting from something decide it must be stopped despite how many others it may disaffect. Back when I was in we'd have applauded the lad for getting out and having a good time. Now, because of your, (and others), petty jealousy, someone will change the rules so that no-one can cadge a lift on a "training flight" and get dropped off somewhere convenient. These things are called "perks" and as you erode the perks you erode morale exponentially. In these times when morale is at a premium our servicemen and women need all the "bennies" they can get, because, god knows, they deserve them but you will still bitch, moan and complain about something that really you have no business complaining about and end up depriving them.

It's the way of society today... "Someone has something I don't so I'll complain and deprive them of it". When all is said and done no-one has anything "special" any more. You are a sad reflection of that society. :=

[ArthurR]

After the revelations of MP's expenses, isn't this a bit of the pot calling the kettle black

Liberal Democrats defence spokesman Nick Harvey MP told Sky News that RAF helicopters should not be used as a taxi service.

[Jackonicko]

I have no issue whatsoever with perks for those who have "completed advanced flying training", are "fully qualified on type" and who "had completed an OCU" and were "operational" on a squadron.

None at all.

HRH is none of those things.

And I'd suggest that someone who chooses to bugger off to a civvy party on the day he was awarded his wings, rather than celebrating with his course mates, and who takes advantage of his birth to get advantages that none of those mates could obtain (and who makes little effort to be discrete about enjoying such privileges) might himself be responsible for blunting morale, a tad.

I would never deny being envious of those who wear hard earned aircrew brevets. Those who earn them properly are worthy of great respect. It's a tough process, from which many good people are weeded out, so those left standing at the end are the best of the best.

Or are of Royal birth, in this case.

My own limited UAS flying dozens of years ago does not entitle me to wings, and nor should it. But my father and grandfather did earn them, and so have many of my friends, and I do resent anything that erodes the value of their achievements.

And I do wonder whether HRH even did enough to deserve the award of 'Budgie Wings'. If he did enough to earn a PFB, then that's what he should wear, and hat's off to him. If he didn't, then he shouldn't. Whether he did or did not do enough to warrant the award of a PFB, he plainly did not do enough to earn proper Wings, and in putting them up without having earned them, he devalues the badge.

It all smacks a bit of Field Marshal Amin, awarding himself rows and rows of medals which he hadn't earned, and in that respect, it's just like giving him an AFC or two, a Green beret and a Commando beret.

You can call them 'honourary', but I fail to see much that's honourable about wearing wings which you haven't earned.

[Union Jack]

HRH was NOT learning how to fly over the 'oggin! ....

but he might have doing the navigation because the Wokka more or less followed the track endlessly ploughed across the West Solent by the Lymington-Yarmouth ferry!

I had no idea who was on board at the time when I saw it but, now I do know, I am supremely unbothered!

Jack

PS Jackonicko - To make you feel better, I hereby award you a virtual AFC (All Flaming Codswallop):)

[davejb]

I'm surprised
that so many people here have taken such a strong position in defence of this flight, adopted an almost (at times) rabid stance - almost a 'how dare you criticise?' viewpoint. We are currently engaged in a battle for hearts and minds - like it or not or the great British public have an attention span of 2 minutes, and a capacity for rational thought that even soundbyte politics stretches. This flight was NEVER going to be seen in a good light by the British public, and the argument that it was a genuine training flight that just happened to end up at a mega party for a couple of princes isn't going to get the majority vote on any jury this side of hell freezing over.

It's bad PR - whether it can be considered a reasonable training evolution or not, the average Joe is going to view it as an expensive taxi. The RAF hierarchy look bloody stupid for attempting to explain it as anything other than that.

It's most unfortunate that this came out, I have nothing against the chap at all - although I do sympathise somewhat with the view expressed earlier in the thread about where a Chinook is better employed... you can't, obviously, just spirit the helo into Afghanistan for an hour or two in preference to heading to a p*ss up UK side, but those who are attacking the critics so vitriolically might consider the PR impact of the shortage of Chinooks at the sharp end when stories like this break.

It wouldn't have taken much in the way of IQ to figure out a way to get the princes to their party without creating a headline enroute, would it? How many other graduates that day took part in essential training flights?

I'm not annoyed or bitching about what occurred - other than to express sadness that the powers that be couldn't see what a negative story this was bound to make....there was zero potential for anything good to come out of this master plan, If we want the public onside it helps to avoid sighting on our feet.
Dave

[EnigmAviation]

Well said Jackonico and djb - why doesn't the PR spin machine at MoD get real - normal training sortie my b:mad: ! Oh, I see fast track from Squirrel to Chinook - oops we forgot the Griffin !!

The Chinook course would have been longer than his total training thus far !

Must have been just about the most expensive heli taxi ever - I'd like to have known whether there were any other non-miltary VVIP's carried on the sortie out of Woolwich - authorisation for non MoD personnel ??

They must think we're a gang of muppets to try to convince us this was all legit !

[Always a Sapper]

Jacko

I'd tend to agree with you, not exactly good press and to me really shows the lads thoughts towards his course mate's ... sort of f*** you, I got my badge now, dont need you any more and am going on the lash with me bruvver.... now where's the TAXI...

Oh and while we are on the subject... Harry, top marks to him for going on the two way range and all. My and I think a lot of other people's opinion of the lad went up tremendously and it really seemed to disappoint the lad when he had to be pulled out after the news broke, but it was probably the only sensible thing to do as he would have been a high value target.

However..... Did he really have to go straight out on the town and on holiday with the long time g/f Kate? .... with so much publicity? IMHO he would have been far better off either keeping his head down publicly for the rest of the tour or getting up and being counted on the home front as a Troop Comd supporting the troops from back here instead of seemingly switching into party mode at the first opportunity.

Ok he's a young lad and he'd been on ops and all (same as pretty much the rest of the Army now, with the Navy and Airforce rapidly catching up) but the thing is ..... His mates were still out there, dodging lead on the two way range etc.... and he's off partying... mmm, sorry but, he lost most of his brownie points with me after that....

Just my two pennyworth .... and no I'm not against the Boss and her family, far from it.... I just think some of the younger ones shouldn’t take the piss with the firms toys.....



ok, helmet on and awaiting the incoming......................

[BigX]

Whatever your view of the Royals, qualifications always incur a price in terms of real sweat. There is a strong argument that the heir to the thrown should have a working knowledge of those services for which he will nominally be signing the commission scrolls some time in the future (at least in facsimile). Nevertheless, awarding pilots' wings is a step too far.

Cornet Wales could have enjoyed the necessary experience without the facade of paper wings. We all know how honorary the wings are but the public cannot be expected to see the difference. The whole issue smacks of political spin and I wonder what advantage Glen Torpy saw in it, if he had much choice in the matter versus more important issues. If it was just for short term RAF publicity, I am mightily disappointed.

As a fully paid-up member of the two-winged master race, I agree with Jackonicko's sentiment (at least as I read it) that award of wings has been an inappropriate reward for Cornet Wales' limited experience. Whilst I'm not crying into my pint, I feel my wings have been somewhat devalued as a result. I feel no pride in their being shared for lesser training, not because I had to go through the mill therefore so should everyone else, but simply because Wings are meant to guarantee a minimum standard, one I have been proud to share with deserving individuals. At one time (certainly in the last decade), and maybe still now, Wings were simply 'loaned' until a pilot achieved combat ready or operational status on a sqn. In this case, that has hardly been achieved.

So far as the Chinook ride is concerned, shame on the powers that be for being so naive. A few years back (2002'sish), weekend landaways were being cancelled due to the unhealthy interest of the Sun and similar newspapers. Somehow, the link between having an honest beer in a foreign bar and the training dividend in getting there was being frowned at publicly - an experience I think many an ex-Harrier pilot will remember. So less than six years' later, how did anyone feel that this incident would be ignored, whether or not it could be passed off as some obscure part of Cornet Wales' famil training?

Just because Royals across the globe have been doing this for generations does not mean it is right.

[EdSet100]

"Boss, there's a party 100Nms away tonight and I'm invited. Whats the chance of getting a cab to take me there?"

"Bloggs, if its within the budgeted training needs of the crew, crack on. Don't take the pi$$. Plan it properly, stick to your route and don't screw up. And don't forget to bring back a bottle for the crew room bar."

[tyne]

Please excuse another Journo popping in but I just have to say something.

It if wasn't for "training flights" I'd not have had half as much knowledge of - and fun with - the armed forces.

Thanks to trips in nice white 146s, VC10s, Sea Kings, and Lynxes, I have got to places I needed to get to quicker and I may have had a bit of fun at the end. If someone learns a bit about landing at Schipol, Plockton, Sealion Island or the back of a Dutch LPD then it's all to the good.

I have spent a lot of time working with and for the three UK services and those of other nations.

One day they may be dropping me off on a remote Scottish island for practice. The next day, they could be back there for real with a casualty in foul weather or whatever. Training comes in handy.

What I just wanted to say was this is such a non-story and it makes me sad that ill-informed people in my line of work make so much of it. I just hope Wills and H left some liquid thanks in a mess somewhere for all those involved to enjoy.

Dan.

Back to my beer now.

[parabellum]

I can remember feeling very miffed back in the mid sixties when a previously non Army Aviation Maj.Gen. was appointed Commander Army Aviation and on visiting us at an aviation seminar in Bielefeld was awarded Army wings by the senior officer present, it certainly did belittle the efforts of those who successfully completed the course.

Why not award the wings, brevets, badges whatever but have a ruling that if they are honourary they should be worn on the opposite sleeve, chest side etc.?

As far as this Chinook trip goes, "so what"? - if it hadn't flown to Bembridge it would have gone somewhere else and there was training value for the crew, (it is not as though HRH was the captain), London heli-lanes, off-shore procedure, landing at an unfamiliar site etc. etc. Just a shame it got out and wasn't better handled by the PR machine.

[APPOEU]

I just hope Wills and H left some liquid thanks in a mess somewhere for all those involved to enjoy.


Err, I will bet a zillion Euros that there were no SNCO or Erks involved in the preparation of the aircraft, so only a little something for the 'Os' mess would ever appear.

[StopStart]

I must say the righteous pontification that is going on in this thread is pretty stunning, even for Pprune. Some of you people are clearly terribly insecure...

The award of wings to HRH was a symbolic gesture, tipping a nod to the fact that the bloke is going to be our Commander in Chief one day. That he was awarded wings in no way denigrates the one's I, my colleagues and forebears wear or wore. I know what I went through to get them and that's that. I don't need to march around the streets announcing it to all and sundry. HRH brings no shame on the RAF wings brevet - quite the opposite. Just think about the various morons, perverts and criminals over the years that have been awarded wings - if you want the value of your wings lowered, these are the people to go to, not some 25 yr old lad who, by virtue of birth, is thrust into this situation. As I've said before on this subject - get over yourselves. If you're anti-Royalist, fine, crack on but don't use these recent events to snipe at the lad and sully the RAF's name.

As for the Chinook trip - whoopy do. Seriously, this isn't a waste of tax payers money. The aircarft would've been flying anyway so who gives a rat's arse. I too am also a taxpayer and can safely say that there are actual, genuine wastes of my money that I would like addressed. Dressing this up as a shocking waste of taxpayers money purely to promote an anti-Royalist agenda is just sad. Yes, Chinooks are needed out in theatre but do you cretins seriously think that we'd just stick them all out there and that would be it? Crews do actually need training every now and then. FFS. :ugh:

As for public perception I can GUARANTEE you that this fell off Joe Public's radar the minute they turned the page to the tits on page 3. Seriously folks, people really don't care - there are far bigger things for them to worry about namely the credit crunch, The Apprentice and the next Big Brother.

Stop taking yourselves so seriously :rolleyes:

[goofer]

I can't decide which is more charmingly quaint... the idea that PW should skip a party with his real friends to drink beer with his course...or that he cares very much what The Sun thinks of him.

The reality is that he has people who are paid to keep him out of this sort of embarrassment. They failed.

The rights and wrongs of using service assets for private fun can be debated for ever. But this wasn't right or wrong - just stupid.

Senior officers have no business spinning it as anything else. I suspect it's only out of a misconceived sense of loyalty... it would be comical if it weren't quite so demeaning to them and their service.

...or do they think it'll get them a Garden Party invitation??!

[Training Risky]

Not really sure what to say. I know that this subject is close to mine and Max's hearts as we both got our Wings and sooooo close to a full career on the wokka (although fair dues Max you got to the Sqn - I didn't;))

Anything I could say about waste of money...not entitled to wings...bad PR for the RAF...etc would just be jealousy as I wish I was back in the cockpit. (Which is, let us remind ourselves, probably the last place in which you will ever find Wills again in his life as he embarks upon a career of being Heir and ultimately King and all the foreign diplomacy horse$hit and grip n' grin photo ops that he can handle.)

Sure we had jollies, but they were on the back of authorised convex sorties (Nice...Souda Bay anyone?!). This mountain-out-of-a-molehill is exactly what Stopstart says it is in the post above: the crew got training; the sortie would have been flown in one way or another; it could have been to Blackpool but as it happens it was to Bembridge; Wills is an Officer, a Prince, and the future King to boot. (Or are all the critics living in the 1650s?)

Endex - back to my mahogany wokka.

[GPMG]

Blimey, it really is a slow news week both in the media and on here.
Surely the answer is 'who gives a sh*t'.

Is it me or has PPRUNE Mill got a bit boring in the last couple of weeks?

Is everybody away on ops or something? Also what happened to all of the yank and the banter?

Is it time to start another snowdrop bashing thread?

[Roland Pulfrew]

StopStart

Well said.:D

JN

Shame on you!

I feel my wings have been somewhat devalued as a result
God you must be insecure!!! I bet it hadn't even crossed your mind until you read this topic.

I'm proud that the future King has at least experienced some of the training that we all had to go through. So what that he didn't do the same course as me/us. He will never fly operationally - again so what?

misconceived sense of loyalty MISCONCEIVED!! He will be our C-in-C one day FFS!! :ugh:

Oh and anyone can apply for a Garden Party invite, you don't have to wait to be asked you know!

Can we end this now?

[goudie]

Good post Stopstart and all the others from guys who realize what a load of tosh this 'story' really is.

[Union Jack]

Well, BigX, I'm with StopStart, Roland, and Goudie here - your post certainly suggests that you're very well on the way with your declared Public Profile interest of "Learning how to be a civilian ".....

Jack

PS But I loved your presumably (with you being a self-styled "fully paid-up member of the two-winged master race) Freudian slip, "heir to the thrown"!:)

[nice castle]

The continual, "the powers that be have been naive/stupid etc etc to let this happen" and "who in their right minds thought this was a good idea" makes one pivotal assumption, as follows:

That they knew what Prince William and Harry do planned to do with their time off at the weekend.

Well, have a little think, and consider what information is appropriate to divulge from Royalty. Their private life is none of our business, IMHO. Clearly, lowlife journos have to take a different view because it ultimately pays their wages by giving eye-catching headlines for the masses.

So, prior to thinking that the RAF and SH force is in any way culpable for doing anything other than completing an FHT as they were mandated to do so, how's about considering the true picture instead of the easy to digest, sensationalised view given by the gutter press.

I put it to you, that you (who have made the statements I alluded to above) are the naive ones, for actually believing what you read in these rags!

[Mad_Mark]

What's all this bleating because the guy went to a real mates stag do rather than stay and drink beer with "his course mates"? He didn't do any real courses and so did not graduate with "his course". He jumped around from one aircraft to another and never was a real part of any true course. As such he did not have "course mates" to drink beer with.

As for the use of a Chinny to ferry him and his bro' to the party, so what! It was real training for the real crew, whether or not the Nu-Labour spin coming from the MOD and RAF mouth-pieces is believed. I am with those that see nothing wrong with the flight, but a hell of a lot wrong with the lies about the training value for Wills!! Bo!!ox was it a flight for his training benefit! It was a training flight for the crew on the back of a taxi service for him and Harry, but training flight for the crew non-the-less!

And as for those that think the cab should have been out in the 'stan, if that were the case what would the crews and studes at home use to continue their training? This flight was training for such a crew back home.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[AR1]

And what's next? Perhaps a single stroll across Dartmoor and he can have a green beret and commando dagger?

Even his uncle didn't manage that..

[BigX]

Union Jack,

Yep, Learning all the time and it never gets any easier.

Nope, nothing Freudian. Blame jet lag and too many 'welcome home' beers in the local after a dry trip. Soapboxes always seem a better idea in such circumstances.

Nice Castle, I agree with you entirely. Unfortunately, the 40,000 plus still in the RAF and thus in the know are somewhat outnumbered by the rest. Own goals nibble away at the RAF's reputation and are too rarely counterbalanced by positive press, especially when the same day's press was able to report about some pillock flying low over the Open.

Roland, whatever.

[anotherthing]

AR1 - I for one think that what Edward did was actually took a lot of balls. He tried the course, couldn't hack it (like many before him and many to come).

He knew it would be splashed across the press, yet he still left - no room left for people to thin he was given a bastardised course just to get him through.

His decision to be honest gained my respect

[Evalu8ter]

Sooo, do you think everybody at AIR is now panicking about how they "spin" his (inevitable) Typhoon Jolly & photoshoot?

Surely any Typhoon hours should be better spent in Iraq, err, Afg..errrrr..ummm..doing a display practise......?

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

I'm confused. Have things changed that much since my time in the RAF, that anything which suggests fun, enjoyment or a "perk" (heaven forbid) is met with such fierce condemnation by fellow Servicemen.
I cannot think of any flight by any military aircraft which does not have a valid training or currency issue attached to it. If the flight can be combined/enanced with something else which is useful (or fun) and does not detract from the authorisers brief, can one of you miserable doubters tell me what is wrong with said flight?
Yes, the muppets posing as a PR machine need a kick up the backside and they play right in to the hands of an incompetant Government, and the "SUN" et al will delight in the gossip, but serving or retired personel should know better.
:{ I weep for you!

[Fareastdriver]

Dead Right ROG. I can remember at least a dozen week-end land away navigation exercises in the early 60s just to get my end away.

[goudie]

I can remember at least a dozen week-end land away navigation exercises in the early 60s just to get my end away.

You could sell that story to the Spun

[Mmmmnice]

Of course he hasn't had to do the time, or put up with the same amount of s**t that us mere mortals have to get a PFB - same way his dad hasn't exactly had a traditional career progression to Air Chief Marshal!!
What did you all expect?
In the same vein I suspect that the normal rules don't apply when it comes to whizzing down to the IoW for a party. Hence the usual tide of misreporting, ill informed speculation and indignation (righteous and what ever other sorts there are) Who really gives a monkeys?

[TheInquisitor]

For all you ill-informed journos and bleaters out there, this is how it works:

A Sqn is allocated a certain number of trg hours per month / year / etc. Those hours are already accounted for within budgets.

ALL sorties have to be authorised in writing, stating the legitimate reason for the flight taking place. You cannot just 'take' an aircraft on a jolly, and there is no 'fig leaf' covering possible. You cannot LEGALLY fly without a proper and correct authorisation.

This sortie would have gone ahead in any case, whether HRH was on it or not. It may have used different destinations for its training purposes, it may have gone to the same places, who knows - that is entirely down to what the crew needed to achieve from THEIR trg hours.

Therefore the supposed cost to the taxpayer of this 'jaunt' is ZERO, as it ALWAYS IS with things of this nature. If it incurred costs outside of what had already been paid for (ie the trg hours) we would not be able to do it!

Just what is it about this that you don't get?

BTW, Jacko, I'm truly surprised at you. You're normally much more clued up about how we go about our business!

[parabellum]

Correct me if I am confused but when Edward came out of the RM I understood he was well up to speed with the Commando side of things, actually doing the hard stuff etc. but the reason he came out was that he had no 'killer instinct' - possibly a 'Royal' or two out there who will remember?

[BurglarsDog]

Regarding the Brevet element - Im with you J !

As for the flight, who really cares.

DogGone:D

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Thanks for the clarification, Inquisitor. So the only thing to change since my day (a long time ago) is that you are now struggling to get enough hours and we invariably had to justify our failure to achieve the monthly hour total set by Command.
Funny old world isn't it?

[goudie]

Be interesting to know how the 'Screws' gets hold of these non-stories The two-hour show-off stunt . 'Military source' covers a fairly wide spectrum though it's more likely this . A royal insider said:

[Clockwork Mouse]

Paul Burrell?

[Mad_Mark]

Yet another non-story that is hyped up by retarded journalists!

A student helicopter pilot needs to practice approaches and landings in a field. Using his intelligence he decides to select a field only 16 miles from base that he can easily get permission to use whilst 'showing off' at the same time - nothing wrong with that. How many other student pilots have selected their training routes to fly over their own, their girlfriends or their parents houses to 'show off'? It was a part of his training, not a special flight put on purely for that purpose!

Aviation analyst and RAF-trained pilot Jon Lake slammed the flight as "ridiculous and inappropriate."

He said: "This is an absolute waste of training hours on the Chinook helicopter that the military are hard-pressed to afford. No other pilot at Prince William's stage of training would be allowed anywhere near the left-hand seat of a Chinook.

"It's like a learner driver being given the keys to a Formula One car just because his father owns the racing team."

Some expert opinion there then :rolleyes: I would have thought that this flight would be like any other student pilot training sortie with the stude in one seat and the instructor in the other :eek: Nothing like a learner driver in a single seat F1 car you knob!

MadMark!!! :mad:

[Clockwork Mouse]

It was always going to be thus. Just wait for when he's doing his bit with the Navy.

Naval analyst and Royal Navy trained journalist Jo Soap says "It was ridiculous and inappropriate, an absolute waste of sailing hours, for an Aircraft Carrier to put into port just so that Prince William could have a party with his friends, and at a time when our brave lads are so short of aircraft carriers in Afghanistan".

[BoeingMEL]

This old-stager is still smiling after almost 20 years.... memories of Valley Hawk taxying up to CAAFU office at Leeds-Bradford. RAF jock climbs out and shortly after leaves in piston-twin on civvie initial IR test with CAAFU examiner. Returns an hour later (with all-sections pass of course!) and departs in Hawk for Valley. (Bet he was jealous as hell not to have shared my trip home on the M6!). Good luck to him. Oh happy days! bm:D

[brakedwell]

Where will he go on his C17 Command Course - Bermuda or Honolulu?

[Wycombe]

I live not all that far from the Middletons

We are used to Chinny's & Merlins routing and training over our heads on pretty much a daily (and often nightly) basis here in West Berks!

Many of them pop into fields where the landowners have given permission, part of everyday life around here.

Year before last a Merlin made a pre-planned landing on the playing field at the kids school (yes, in Bucklebury) - they all loved it, good confined HLS training I suspect and great PR - or was that wrong too!

Total non-story := Hang your head in shame Mr Lake

[goudie]

you needed to keep 'em happy.


And its being provided in spades !


Well anything to 'keep
em
happy' whilst the rest of us get on with our lives.

[Evalu8ter]

"B*ll*cks ! If anybody else did that they would be up on Fizzers"

NAROBS, you are talking out of your ar$e!

It is quite common for RW pilots to use fields etc that they have the landowners permission..for a start it stops any noise complaints! 16nm from Base, a field that hasn't been used before? Bit of a rarity these days so well-done! This Jon Lake (Tw@) appears to have no idea of RW Ops (is he bitter that nobody let him take a C130 home for the weekend..?) and should know better. Clearly HRH was with a QHI, the trip was authorised etc etc. The F1 soundbite is utter hoop; "celebs" are often to be found poncing around in the back of FJs in a much more unqualified state than someone who has actually done some formal flying instruction.

Will the roundheads let this go? Would they complain if that Simian Rooney (no, not the ex-CH47 mate...) had a go? Course not, working lad dun good an' all that...

[JessTheDog]

This is starting to annoy me. Wales has been in the RAF 5 minutes and he is already making it a laughing-stock. According to the Sunday Times, Torphy is raging over the incident. The clowns involved in this should realise that this would make the papers, and that the whole story of a helicopter jolly undertaken by someone with no training or operational need that coincides with a stag night just stinks to high heaven. I hope Torphy lays into his subordinate commanders over this - too much to hope for a royal interview without coffee or a 1069 but one can dream.

Wales - P!ss off to the Navy and try and regain some respect. :=

As an afterthought, why didn't the royal twosome drop in on Headley Court or Selly Oak for a morale visit, even a hospital, hospice or charity?

[brakedwell]

I hope Torphy lays into his subordinate commanders over this - too much to hope for a royal interview without coffee or a 1069 but one can dream.

And whoever made the decision to waste valuable Chinook flying hours on F/O Wales.

[Avitor]

How distant was the Prince from his most recent pyss up? :=

[Biggus]

It strikes me that, like most things in life, this is a matter of personal opinion.

If you are pro-royal then the....perfectly normal training flight, good PR, its the 'Royal' Air Force for goodness sake, we've all done it, get a life, etc..... arguements come out.

If you are anti-royal then it's the.....waste of time, taxpayers money misused, rich spoilt brats, etc ....... arguements.

Personally I am very pro-royal when starting from the Queen and working down, but become less and less impressed when we approach the younger generation of 'Royals'. I think Zara gets it right, but I'm afraid I can't say the same for the young Princes. Any sympathy they may have had due to the tragic loss of their mother has long since evapourated in my mind. I feel they have the give:take ratio wrong at the moment. They have many opportunitys to misuse their position, the mark of their character is whether of not they take or decline those opportunities.......

Standing by for any incoming ........

[Brewster Buffalo]

There had been a numbers of failures here in particular from Prince William, and the RAF who authorised this, in not realising how this would look to the public when it got out.. Why wasn't there someone prepared to say no to him?

When the forces rightly complain about lack of helicopters, which may be putting lives at risk, aren't people going to ask if that is so how can Prince William use one apparently as a private taxi?

I accept it was more than that and I'm sure there was training involved but it looks bad.

If only the Princes had a fraction of the common sense of the Queen.

[Training Risky]

Would this training sortie (presumably with a full crew of 4 on board) have still been flown at some point if Wills had not been there....yes.

Was it any extra effort to use a new field in the vicinity of Odiham...no.

Do some posters need a 'meerkat moment'....definitely! (Where you pull your heads out your ar$e and have a good look around you to see what's really going on).

PS: And how exactly is Jon Lake an 'RAF-trained' pilot. I mean, Air Cadets who got a few hours on Chipmunks in the 80's can claim to be 'RAF-trained'! (Like Jacko;)) Can anyone dish the dirt on Jonny-boy?

[BEagle]

A lot of fuss about nothing.

If it gave HRH a good insight into aspects of tactical SH flying with the benefit of hands-on experience, a good thing too!

I would suggest that this is of arguably greater benefit to the RAF as a whole then qualifying an Air Vice Marshal to fly the Typhoon. What possible need could there be for that?

[brakedwell]

PS: And how exactly is Jon Lake an 'RAF-trained' pilot. I mean, Air Cadets who got a few hours on Chipmunks in the 80's can claim to be 'RAF-trained'! (Like Jacko) Can anyone dish the dirt on Jonny-boy?

Does it really matter? It only takes twelve weeks to earn a set of RAF wings, even with time off to go skiing in Klosters. :E

[Brain Potter]

Beat me to it BEAgs,

A few flying hours spent giving the future head-of-state an insight into the capabilities of his air force and at a the same time countering some of the institutional anti-RAF rhetoric he will have been exposed to in the Army is money well spent.

It is certainly better value than allowing some here-today, gone-tomorrow CAS to display his prowess by soloing in the latest wonder-fighter (and I don't really begrudge that either!)

Did the RAF not have any media-savvy people keeping any oversight of this whole project to prevent such own-goals?

[exscribbler]

Institutional anti-RAF rhetoric in the Army, BP?

You wait until he gets to the RN! :E

[Brain Potter]

Yes, but he's now realised that the Navy's whole future is pinned on providing expensive mobile airfields for RAF aircraft :ok:

Anyway he's only going there to widen his circle (of friends). :E

[Bolk]

F/O Wales was always going to have a different experience of life in the light blue than F/O Bloggs. HRH simply has to take the rough with the smooth...

Smooth - Wings after 13 weeks, skiing holiday included. At the stick of a Chinook on week 14.

Rough - Media / Public attention when he tries to earn himself a bl*w j*b token by landing in his girlfriends back-garden.

Bolk.

I've re-worded that last sentence 3 times but 'back-garden' always looks like a euphimism.

[John Purdey]

BEagle. I'm surprised at you. The fact is that this was p*** awful Pr for the Royal Air Force, and if the press reports today are accurate (for a change) then CAS should be sacking someone pronto. Who the h*** authorised these flights, with the obvious risk of comparison with Afghanistan shortage of Helo capacity? Jp

[goudie]

with the obvious risk of comparison with Afghanistan shortage of Helo capacity?

Comparisons are odious, none more so than in this silly story.

[Gainesy]

Nah, Chinook base is Odious.

Whatever, what's done is done, it'll blow over. When does he go to sea? His first run ashore should produce some spectacular drivel.

[OmegaV6]

Isn't it amazing how many folks BELIEVE every word that is printed as "Gospel" .... a whole thread devoted to discussing a press report without a single proven fact...

so lets send out a single sentence and build a complete fabrication around it .. and if we use the "royal connection" then all the mugs will believe it.

What a waste of time .. must be a "slow day" in the press world.

[John Purdey]

Goudie. Silly, but damaging nevertheless.

[JessTheDog]

If it gave HRH a good insight into aspects of tactical SH flying with the benefit of hands-on experience, a good thing too!


Err...what sort of hands-on experience are you talking about? Hands-on strippers? :E

[StopStart]

Should MoD PR et al have any common sense then will give this story the attention it deserves and ignore it. Apart from a few rabid anti-royalists this story will have have slipped off the national psyche but about, ooh, six this evening... I can't believe that so many supposedly educated people on these forums can be so seduced by the utter toilet that is printed by the tabloids.

Oh and can you droids stop twatting on about Afghanistan etc etc? How many times do you need it drilled into your thick skulls - aircraft have to stay in the UK so people can train on them. I suppose Odious could've used that 2 hr slot to strip, pack, ship to Afg, reassemble, operate, strip and then reship home again in time for the next wave. :rolleyes:

If you do feel the need to saddle up your amply-legged equine transport then how's about you actually get onto the Govt on the real issue that's crippling us - lack of spares and engineers to fit them. Somebody tooling about in one of our trg aircraft for 2 hrs affects the price of fish not one iota.

When we start melting down railings and saucepans to make Spitfires then perhaps I too might display some mild angst but until that time can you people stop being such bloody drama queens.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Right, back to the plastering.........

[PICKS135]

Spot the odd one out

Chap from motoring programme gets a jolly in a Typhoon.

Another chap from same motoring programme races a Typhoon in a sports car.

Weather woman gets a trip with Red Arrows.

Chap from another BBC programme gets a trip in a Typhoon.

Chap who's Granny owns the train set gets to go on a training trip in a Chinook


Didnt hear the press moaning about the others did we ???

[StopStart]

Nick, it most certainly was. And the Germans were bombing London. Personally I don't believe we've got ourselves a War of National Survival quite yet...

:zzz:

PICKS135 - the Royals are an easy target for those with an agenda, as your examples show.

[StopStart]

Are you talking to yourself? :confused:

[PPRuNe Pop]

Well it seems the CAS is seething!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=560880&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

[ProfessionalStudent]

Now THIS is much better use of the taxpayers' money...

Sea King Delivers Match Ball (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=9;t=46471)

What a disgusting and blatant waste of taxpayers' money. In these days of sparse resources, this helicopter should have been saving the lives of idiots on li-los, or idiots climbing mountains in PT vests, boxing gloves and roller-skates. And then there are the poor nurses in dangerous operational areas such as the Falklands. This chopper should have been giving them jollies around the islands in return for sexual favours to the crew, rather than wasting time delivering balls to a sports ground.

What a PR disaster for the RAF blah blah blah

[Clockwork Mouse]

"Details of the angry reaction emerged as the young royal came under fire for using a RAF Chinook for a second time to fit in a personal visit".

Some "personal visit". The Mail and other garbage peddlars will milk it for every drop. There is no way of avoiding "bad publicity" for the Forces from any contact with the royals. There will always be some self-styled expert who can distort the most uncontroversial activity and blow it up into a righteous indignation fest. And there is no shortage of morons who will believe anything printed, including some regrettably who post on PPrune.

I think I'll emigrate. I can't stand this bl**dy country any more.

[Clockwork Mouse]

Wouldn't it be refreshing if Torpy, instead of giving in to the attack of the media-led morons and shovelling pooh over his hard-working and dedicated subordinates, actually had the b*lls to stand up and support his people. After all, they did nothing wrong and broke no regulations. Their fault, if it is one, was to allow the self-styled experts and royal bashers to attack. If Torpy caves in, he will have allowed that attack to succeed, despite it's lack of substance. Then there will be no end to the self-destructive tail-biting by the RAF and other Services. In the end no-one will dare to put his head above the parapet in any circumstances and the b*stards will have won.

Don't expect he will though, so I'll still consider emigrating.

[serf]

Is the field that was used still available for use?

[BEagle]

From MoD's own news site ( http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/CasRafRemainsAbsolutelyVital.htm ):



Air Chief Marshal Torpy said that he is planning to learn to fly a C130 Hercules very soon:
"I think in some ways it's easier to be at the sharp end than trying to grapple with all the other problems that you have to do when you get to the top of any big organisation.

"I try and keep as close as I can in contact with the front line, because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about and I go and fly on the Squadrons wherever I can to see what the youngsters are really doing."


Which is surely all that HRH - one day to become head of the UK's Armed Forces (if there are any left by then) - was doing?

This is an utter non-event and if all Torpy has to do is to chew the carpet over the issue, he should look in the mirror first.

[StopStart]

Air Chief Marshal Torpy said that he is planning to learn to fly a C130 Hercules very soon

oh good

:hmm:

[mustpost]

Hmmmm....

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/i'll-do-it-if-you-land-a-helicopter-on-my-parents'-lawn%2c-kate-told-wills-20080421885/

[ZH875]

From MoD's own news site ( http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/CasRafRemainsAbsolutelyVital.htm ):



Which is surely all that HRH - one day to become head of the UK's Armed Forces (if there are any left by then) - was doing?

This is an utter non-event and if all Torpy has to do is to chew the carpet over the issue, he should look in the mirror first.


Subtle difference though:

1. Torpy earned his wings
2. Torpy earned his promotions
3. Torpy is the REAL head of the RAF
4. William will be monarch, but will have no say in the running of the RAF unlike Torpy.

Lets face it, as long as the monarchy have backsides to lick, you will find people to do it.

So lets have this thread closed as it is serving absolutely no useful purpose, much like FO Wales and the rest of his dysfunctional family.

[BEagle]

So lets have this thread closed as it is serving absolutely no useful purpose, much like FO Wales and the rest of his dysfunctional family


Rather an odd comment from you, given that your alleged home page has this to say:


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/untitled2.jpg


To the Tower with you!

[ZH875]

........ your alleged home page........


Yep, it's alleged.

It is not my site, but thanks for looking.:ok:

[Brain Potter]

William will be head-of-state for far longer than Torpy's tenure as CAS. As head-of-state William will have more direct access to those politicians who will determine the future of the RAF than Torpy and his successors could ever dream about.

Prior to this course William's knowledge of the roles and capabilities of the RAF will have been almost entirely based on what he will have picked-up from the Army. The RAF may one day need William to apply some behind-the-scenes influence on his government. I would suggest that not making any effort to offset some of the opinions that he will have been exposed to in the Army would be unwise.

Conversely, if CAS is not already sufficiently knowledgeable to command a force that includes C-130s without actually learning to fly them himself, then the RAF needs to re-examine how they educate their senior officers. Familiarization on genuinely representative sorties may improve his understanding of capabilities, but actually "qualifying" on the aircraft is surely just a stunt?

His Air-ship will perform a few circuits in the LHS and then probably fly as "captain" to AKT for the benefit of RAF news - proving what exactly? He will find it all very smooth and easy, and the GPU in Cyprus will probably even work first time. He won't get anywhere near experiencing the ball-ache of seemingly pushing everyone else to make the task work, followed by the fatigue of operating back-to-back long haul flights, culminating in trying to remain alert over the London TMA.

William had the hours allocated and they were flown-off in a useful manner, with a bit of fun-factor thrown-in. I thought that was the sort of RAF that we all wanted to be part of. The ne'er sayers should be aware that they are adding to the tone that will see useful activities being stopped because someone with very little knowledge perceives that they might be portrayed as "having fun" on the public purse. Ski-champs anyone?

[stercus-accidit]

Show me a serviceman who has never enjoyed a 'perk' of the job and I'll show you an RAF Policeman.

The guy, like his Granny, will probably have to work well into old age, has pretty much no choice in this and, as far as I can see, is entitled to use a Chinook to land in his girlfriends back garden.

What gets me is the bull about 'legitimate training', etc.

If I was him I'd be saying, "right, I'm going to land a Chinook in my girlfriends back garden, OK?

He can buzz my house if he wants as well I don't care.

[Daifly]

Yesterday JessTheDog wrote "As an afterthought, why didn't the royal twosome drop in on Headley Court or Selly Oak for a morale visit, even a hospital, hospice or charity?"

This site clearly has more influence than we'd give it credit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7358282.stm :D

So, therefore, Ma'am, please can you add me to your list. I'd like a "K" if possible or, failing that, a nice CBE or OBE. Cheers m'dear.

[JessTheDog]

Has someone in Clarence House/MoD picked up on all this? Or was it pre-planned?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7358282.stm

Princes William and Harry have met patients at a medical rehabilitation centre for the armed forces.

They went on a private tour of the facilities at the Defence Medical Services Rehabilitation Centre, Headley Court, near Epsom, Surrey.

The princes met patients undergoing treatment and those with limited mobility, and spoke about next month's City Salute Appeal.

The event, and the clinic visit, are aimed at raising support for UK troops.

Next month's City Salute event will be an open-air event held in the City of London on 7 May.

Members of the public will be asked to help raise money for injured servicemen and women, and the funds raised will go to the City Salute Appeal.

During the tour, Harry was reunited with one of the injured servicemen who shared his return flight from his tour of duty in Afghanistan.

Marine Ben McBean, 21, lost an arm and a leg when a mine exploded during a patrol in the country, and he was flown back to the UK for medical treatment at the same time as the prince left the country.

Both princes also met L/Sgt Adam Ball, 23, of 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards who has spent six months at Hedley Court after he lost a leg when he stepped on an explosive device in Afghanistan.

L/Sgt Ball said the visit had boosted morale at the centre.

"With Harry having done it himself he knows the ins and outs and it's more like banter, talking to an officer maybe, than talking to a royal."

The clinic visited by the princes offers a wide range of therapies to aid rehabilitation.

The site provides consultants, physiotherapists, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists, social workers, a psychologist and a cognitive therapist.

As part of their visit, the princes joined a group of patients and staff to discuss the City Salute event.

The Defence Medical Services Rehabilitation Centre is set to benefit from the drive, with projects to be funded including a swimming pool and sports complex for physiotherapy and family accommodation.

In an earlier tour of the centre, the princes visited the hydro-therapy pool, the physiotherapy room, the workshops where prosthesis are made, the gymnasium and the wards.

The clinic was originally developed as a centre for aircrews and officers after a collection of funds and donations during the war.

And, in 1984, it extended its remit to treating personnel of all ranks and Services.

Since 2002, the site has delivered rehabilitation as part of a network of 14 medical Regional Rehabilitation Units.


They should have taken along some of the female hangers-on (of CDs?!?) from the stag do - that would have really boosted morale! :}

[exscribbler]

I too wondered if HRH had been reading this site. If he has then good for him and his brother!:ok:

The City Salute event includes a flypast - not a Wokka, I hope.:E

[goudie]

Show me a serviceman who has never enjoyed a 'perk' of the job and I'll show you an RAF Policeman.



The guardroom at RAF Wahn was opposite the WRAF block and woe betide any one caught lingering in the vicinity.
The Snowdrops always seemed to have the pick of the ladies who dwelled therein.

Apologies for slight off thread

[stercus-accidit]

The guardroom at RAF Wahn was opposite the WRAF block and woe betide any one caught lingering in the vicinity.
The Snowdrops always seemed to have the pick of the ladies who dwelled therein.


I wouldn't call 'interaction' with a stinky a perk, more of a duty.

[stercus-accidit]

...Hang on, stinky, perk(y), (Pinky and Perky) weren't they pigs, RAF Police, aren't these pigs, WRAF's, aren't these pigs.

It all makes sense now.

Apologies for replying to my own post.

[rogerk]

Come one we have all done it to some degree at sometime ??

:=

"Oh bugger, wife has just called I have the car and house keys in my pocket - anyone going out in the LFA next few minutes who could do a drop at my place - 30 second hover in the field next door would be appreciated ??"

[exscribbler]

Are you seriously telling me that an RAF Officer (all of whom according to PPRuNe are renowned for being keen, dashing and resourceful not to say devastatingly good-looking) has not covered that eventuality by getting some spare sets?:E

[Bob Viking]

What made me laugh this morning was a headline in the Currant Bun saying:

"Wills puts his Chopper in Kate's garden"

How much would you like to bet it finds it's way on to 'Have I Got News For You' this Friday as:

"Wills puts his Chopper in Kate's _______"

I laughed anyway!
BV:}

[exscribbler]

Back or front garden? The Nation has a right to know.:E

[BEagle]

The Snowdrops always seemed to have the pick of the ladies who dwelled therein.



But they always gave them a biscuit afterwards!

What was that famous Court Martial line?

"I observed A/Cpl Knacker having sex with a German shepherd"

"And what did you say to him?"

"To whom, Sir?"

"The corporal, idiot, not the shepherd!"

"That's a nice dog, corporal! To which he replied "Actually it's a bitch, sir!" "

[jockspice]

A story written by the ill informed and ignorant, which has been lapped up and blown out of proportion by those equally so. Let's move on. :ugh:

[airborne_artist]

BV - one PPruner said he'd seen a headline reading "Wills puts chopper in Kate's back garden" :ok:

[stercus-accidit]

A story written by the ill informed and ignorant, which has been lapped up and blown out of proportion by those equally so. Let's move on. :ugh:


..."lapped up and blown"...

[brakedwell]

BV - one PPruner said he'd seen a headline reading "Wills puts chopper in Kate's back garden"

I hope he didn't damage the bushes. :uhoh:

[Tightflester]

Off topic I know but I strive to share my favourite Newspaper headline at any given opportunity, and this thread has stumbled into the ballpark.

The headline concerns a 4'8" tall clairvoyant who’d escaped from Broadmoor Prison and was on the run…

“Small Medium at Large”

Well, it always cheers me up!

Hat, coat, gloves…… I’m off.

[buoy15]

Quite impressed with Cranditz since my day
Bit of marching to get your dad to award wings by lunchtime
Complete hasty Chinook OCU by teatime
Touch down in girfriends paddock prior to supper and then off to the IOW for brothers piss up - Even Flashman would be jealous of this:cool:

[JessTheDog]

I said:

As an afterthought, why didn't the royal twosome drop in on Headley Court or Selly Oak for a morale visit, even a hospital, hospice or charity?

I'm splitting the invoice between Clarence House and MoD, cheaper than Max Clifford. Next client, that Formula 1 chap with the interesting tastes.....;)

[Brewster Buffalo]

Today 19:55I'm splitting the invoice between Clarence House and MoD, cheaper than Max Clifford. Next client, that Formula 1 chap with the interesting tastes.....;) Today 19:55

Surely that next client should be Gordon Brown...if you can win him an election it will be a peerage at least for you.. arise Lord JesstheDog... or perhaps a billion pound tip after all the Bank of England is gving away money by the cargo load.

[JessTheDog]

Surely that next client should be Gordon Brown...if you can win him an election it will be a peerage at least for you.. arise Lord JesstheDog... or perhaps a billion pound tip after all the Bank of England is gving away money by the cargo load.

No, he's beyond saving!!:}

[Fareastdriver]

We do not know how lucky we are to have a Monarchy. You should try a country where they have, quote, a democratically elected president. In this case not he president but a bigwig.
He was going out to an oil platform for an inauguration ceremony. The helicopter was chartered at US$3,500 an hour, rotors running time. The wind offshore at 40 knots was too strong to shut down so it was suggested that the aircraft returned and flew out again when needed Not good enough, it had to available when he had finished.
The aircraft was rotors running on the helideck, being occasionally refuelled, for FIVE AND A HALF HOURS. at $3,500/hr. The taxpayers paid for that.

[Wader2]

The trips were authorised. The problem was the sqn didn't tell anyone. When the Scum ran the story the men in the ministry were blindsided. THAT is what p1ssed CAS off most.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

How could they not have thought about the negative PR angle, isnt the Stn Cdr the very same chap who was at MOD PR and involved in Abingdon and Scotland air show fiasco's.

Much adoo about nothing but ot nipping it in the bud has certainly left us abit embarrassed.:ugh:

[Wader2]

negative PR angle, . . . Stn Cdr . . . MOD PR . . . air show fiasco's.

But in defence, remember how the MOD tried to keep Harry's movements under wraps when he was doing Optag? How they controlled the photo opportunities at Sandhurts (sic :))? How they limited Wills exposure at Cranditz etc etc?

But whether they hoped to keep the whole thing hidden or not they should have warned the centre.

[philrigger]

;)

I seem to remember on 230 Sqn in the seventies there was a pilot who used to drop in to see his mum for a cup of coffee. What was his name ? ....

- A..x Br...n.








'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[davejb]

At the risk of losing an arm....
and with all due deference to those arguing that the trips were authorised therefore all non-pilots ought to be shot after a damn good flogging...

This still seems very much an own goal. Everything, these days, isn't seen in black and white for what it is, it's subject to spin and Joe Public isn't that difficult to influence. This just looks like the chap got to do what he felt like because he's royalty...now you may argue that that IS in fact all the justification needed, but to the casual observer the 'Daily Mash' take on it isn't far off the mark, and it could have been avoided had any other field in the UK been selected - please don't bother to point out the field shortage issue, there is no way that every other Chinook sortie is doing practise landings at the Middleton's little hacienda, and has been doing for the past decade.

Good luck to the lad, if that hasn't earned him a little extra 'consideration' then goodness knows what he'll have to try next - I don't blame him for getting away with it. It's still a very silly thing to allow somebody as high vis as HRH to do ANYTHING that looks like an abuse of position and privilege, because a great many people will jump on such and make a great deal of noise about them. The Sun, Mail etc couldn't run 'Prince uses chopper to fetch chip supper' stories if he didn't actually make the flight. This last couple of events have had zero potential for good PR, a 6 year old could work that out - somebody really ought to be trying to ensure that his time with the RAF avoids this sort of negative fallout.

Dave

(Puts helmet on...)

[goudie]

Oh god 136 posts and this still drags on weeks, months, years after the event

Totally agree. Fact is, the rest of the world has moved on.

[Double Zero]

Well in terms of P.R. It was a home goal, though of course the message is, " Sod you lot, so what, I'm Royal you know"...

Exactly how many Chinooks are going spare for real training or use in Afghanistan ?

I expect a few Harrier pilots would have liked to drop in on their girlfriends, or as a last ditch alternative wives, for all I know it may have happened.

At the Southern England civilian airfield where I worked, there was a period when a 2-seat Jaguar happened to have to do a Navex arriving every Friday, departing Monday mornings...

[Double Zero]

Is that Deja Vu, finger trouble or an actual comment ?

The mention of months & years makes me think you're referring to something other than the recent 'helo jollies...


P.S, Nothing can be as sickenining as 'the whole Diana thing'...

[clunckdriver]

Just dug out my old log book, one entry goes like this: CYBG[RCAF Stn Bagotville} cross country to CYQY{Sydney Nova Scotia} Nav trip{who the F-- are we kidding? we went further than that on a normall intercept} Translation, pick up 800lbs of lobsters for squadron piss up! My how times have changed!The only thing to watch was dont let them drip on the eight 50cals, makes for stickey breach blocks!

[Jumbo Driver]

"Small Medium at Large”

Well, it always cheers me up!


Apologies for prolonging the thread creep but I still chuckle at

"Nut screws washers and bolts"

I'm sure you know the story ...


JD
:)

[Fg Off Max Stout]

At the Southern England civilian airfield where I worked, there was a period when a 2-seat Jaguar happened to have to do a Navex arriving every Friday, departing Monday mornings...

And I have a friend who when on AFT at Valley had their house and spouse near Wittering, as did the QFI. They were often programmed last wave on Fri and first wave on Mon. By carrying out mandatory, authorized, syllabus sorties, on these trips, they were able to derive a perq at no cost to the RAF. What exactly is the problem with that?

By kneejerking to ill-informed reaction amongst members of the media and public, who understand little about the RAF modus operandi, the RAF runs the risk of becoming an environment where any personal perqs must be eradicated, and the attractive side of military life gets chipped away a little more. This happened a few years ago with the thankfully shortlived 'no landaways that can be perceived as enjoyable' ruling - all thanks to another media scoop. Those who know nothing about RAF ops and training should not be the ones determining policy.

[Double Zero]

Max Stout,

I'm all for 'useful jollies' in every sense, keeps everyone happy while also hopefully useful training ( and it seems to me any time in the air is useful ) ; but exactly how many people get that priviledge ?

Not the groundcrew or even junior aircrew for sure...

I was on a supposedly civilian airfield but dealing with exclusively military aircraft and helped in my tiny way in their development - if you are lucky and skilled enough you're flying them now.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Dunsfold? Don't worry, I doubt that I'm lucky or skilled enough to be flying their products! HArrier mates may get all the good chat up lines, but wokka mates get the girls!

Not the groundcrew or even junior aircrew for sure...

I have on occasions dropped off sqn groundcrew half way round a navex thus saving them a long journey on public transport!

[Evalu8ter]

Double 0,
Harrier mates don't drop in to see girlfriends;

1. They have a perfectly good mirror in the mess, in the cockpit and in the car for emergencies...

2. The jet might get dirty; Field Ops was VERY GR3/RAFG....

3. Somebody MIGHT see GR7/9 in a field and suggest they go back to doing it.....

Banter aside, please do not tar RW operators with the same brush that you treat FJ aviators. I've often taken groundrew on training trips where the destination has included a "good time", I've also delivered cars/luggage when it was en-route and some training benefit could be proved (before you start, loading a car is good internal load practise for rearcrew...). Astonishingly, in the RW force we actually trust our Junior Pilots so they come too...!!!

Sorry to rain on your egalitarian soapbox...but, if you were in a position after all the hard work to be on a front line Sqn I'd bet you'd take what few perks were left.....

[Double Zero]

I suspect you & I are both at a misunderstanding; as I said I'm all for any 'useful' flying one can get, and god knows anything to help ground / junior crew is desparately needed, never more than now.

As you have the space, it would be daft not to take up other closely involved people I agree, & laud your efforts...

[Navy_Adversary]

"One has been a very sortie boy" headline in the soaraway today, also "Wills gets out his chopper at Sandringham" again in the Sun Red Top.

More 'navigation' exercises revealed.:cool:

[rogerk]

... now they are telling us that -

it was a COLLECTIVE error of judgment and William is holding his hands up for it as much as the RAF.

If he doesn't know the collective from the cyclic should he be driving "Wokas" at all !!

:bored:

[goudie]

Right, that's 150 extremely interesting posts!

[ramp_up]

Why is everybody so "up in arms". Find me an aircrew mate who has never flown over somebody they know. I'm more bothered about some Iraqi that gets £2 mil when our injured hero's get next to nothing. Error of judgement on both accounts.

[ZH875]

HE must have done very well on his Flying and Skiing tour of the RAF, as according to the tabloid rags he is to become a Royal Knight of the Garter, joining the most senior British order of chivalry.

Is that because his Queens Golden Jubilee Medal looked lonely when he was photographed next to his father with his Tin Sheriffs and Blue Peter Badges


So that's a big :ok: and a very well done sir, now do you need your bottom wiping again.

[Dan D'air]

PRINCE WILLIAM sparked fury last night after landing his £15,000-an-hour RAF helicopter in girlfriend Kate Middleton's back garden.

153 posts now and I can't believe that no-one has made any jokes about HRH, choppers and confined areas.

(Have amended this as it was obviously taken out of context. The dailies have been having a field day (pun intended) with Chopper jokes and I honestly thought that those of us who frequent this forum would have seen the post in the (very) light way in which it was intended.)

Apologies to one and all.

[Clockwork Mouse]

I presume you believe that making crude and offensive sexual comments on a public forum about a serving officer and his girlfriend is acceptable because he is a Royal and so not entitled to the privacy, respect and consideration due to the rest of the population.

[[email protected]]

Clockwork - no, I think Dan d'air did it because it's funny;)

[goudie]

because it's funny


Why is it funny?

[Clockwork Mouse]

Funny? Then he has my sympathy. At least his family and friends do.

[Al R]

Dan,

I hope he wasn't violating her restricted (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/i'll-do-it-if-you-land-a-helicopter-on-my-parents'-lawn%2c-kate-told-wills-20080421885/) airspace. And for his sake, I hope it wasn't regarded by her as a clandestine op either. :oh:

[Union Jack]

Well said, Clockwork, fully living up to your stated interest of "Seeking truth and promoting common sense and decency".

I'm as ready to laugh as anyone else at off-colour humour, at the right time, in the right place, and in the right company, but I am perfectly certain that Dan D'air, Goudie, Crab etc would not find it half so funny to have their sex life or, more importantly, that of the lady in their life, held up to such readily identifiable public ridicule.

Jock

PS Oh yes, and then there's that wording about "heirs and successors" on that precious scroll that some people have .....

[Dan D'air]

OK, ok, Post amended. Once again, my apologies to anyone who may have been offended.

DD.

[goudie]

that Dan D'air, Goudie, Crab etc would not find it half so funny

Hang on Union Jack I never did find it funny for the reasons you state, also I have 3 daughters (adult) and would be extremely angry with anonymous people making lewd remarks about them on a public forum.

[Union Jack]

Goudie

My humble apologies - nice to know that we're on the same side and, intriguingly as a result of my slip, you have very neatly amplified precisely the point I was trying to make.

Dan

Amendment acknowledged with thanks - I wasn't offended as such, but am grateful to Goudie for reinforcing my point so succinctly, especially after I accidentally put him in the frame.

Jack

PS One also has to consider the possibility that, now that he is at least an honorary two-winged skygod, the person concerned is perfectly likely to have been introduced to the joys of PPrune as part of his training ....

[Jackonicko]

If so, then let's hope he's also grown a thick enough skin to appreciate and withstand a bit of banter.

and perhaps I'm a bad person, but I did find it funny.

[Al R]

OK, ok, Post amended. Once again, my apologies to anyone who may have been offended.

DD.

Daniel,

I wasn't offended - what you posted was harmless craic of the kind that we're all used to, and it was funny. I can't imagine William or Kate being insulted either. I imagine young Harry wearing Nazi regalia was equally as insilting to many.. isn't it lucky that we live in a free society and are allowed the right to say so?

Before anyone asks - yes, I am a monarchist and a father.

[brakedwell]

A serious waste of Chinook flying hours- according to the Independent.


MoD 'naive' over Prince's joyrides


By Andy McSmith
Thursday, 24 April 2008

The RAF confessed yesterday that it was a public relations disaster to allow Prince William to make five flights in military helicopters for personal reasons. Instructors gave the Prince the chance to take a Chinook to a party, and to a wedding, and to show off to his prospective parents-in-law, and get aerial views of royal residences.

Prince William started his RAF training on 7 January, undergoing an intensive course that saw him awarded his wings on 11 April. On the day he graduated, the RAF heaped praise on the speed with which he picked up flying skills. "He worked every hour he had spare and also mixed in with the boys well," Wing Commander John Cunningham said.

It has become clear, however, that the Prince was actually devoting some of those hours having fun in Chinooks. On 2 April, he flew a Chinook over his father's country home, Highgrove, in Gloucestershire, in what was logged as a training flight. The next day, there was another training flight to Bucklebury, where the parents of his girlfriend, Kate Middleton, live.

On 4 April, he was a guest at a wedding in Hexham, in Northumberland. He flew there by Chinook – no doubt impressing wedding guests.

Five days later, his instructor told him to navigate by using recognisable marker points, including Sandringham, the Queen's residence in Norfolk. Finally on 11 April, the day he received his wings, he flew a Chinook to London, picked up his younger brother Harry, and flew to the Isle of Wight, where the Princess Royal's's son, Peter Phillips, was having a stag party.

The Ministry of Defence apologised, in the hope of defusing the anger of other service families at a time when the MoD budget is being squeezed, and admitted "there was a degree of naivety in the planning of these sorties".

[Fg Off Max Stout]

devoting some of those hours having fun in Chinooks

Perhaps all Flying Order Books should be amended to say that under no circumstances may anyone enjoy flying military aircraft in order to appease the tabloids and 'anti-everything' members of the public. The MoD/RAF would do well to stick up for itself and explain that routine training is, er... routine, and to practice navigation you have to go somewhere. Saying sorry when you haven't done anything wrong ain't the answer.

Anyway, I'm sure civpop have forgotten all about it by now: apparently Billie Piper might or might not be up the spout.

[Jackonicko]

It's not really right to paint anyone who objects to this as being a dedicated Killjoy, determined to stamp on everybody's fun. I can't speak for everyone who has raised an eyebrow at HRH's Chinook jollies, but I suspect that many will share the view that there is absolutely no problem at all with those who have completed EFT, BFT and AFT, and who are training to fly Chinooks on the frontline having as much fun flying Chinooks as is humanly possible. I hope that many of them are able to fly over their parental homes, their old schools, etc. and that their landaways are to interesting and fun places.

I'm entirely convinced that 'fun' training is good training.

But Cornet Wales is not going to be a Chinook pilot, nor has he completed the training necessary to take full advantage of time in the left hand seat of a Chinook.

We keep being told that HRH was receiving much the same training as everyone else, and won his wings in the same way - and was effectively being treated just like any other student pilot. Had he flown these 'jollies' in a Squirrel or a Griffin, that would be one thing (unusual, but justifiable), but as it is, this wasn't 'relevant and appropriate training' for him - it was effectively allocating a Chinook as a Royal taxi.

Had the RAF had the gumption to admit as much, while pointing out the training value to the crew, few people would have batted an eyelid, but the insistence that this was entirely normal, and a routine and justifiable part of HRH's training lacks credibility.

Presumably the Chinook OCF has plenty of capacity for those coming out of AFT? No-one has to hold, or anything like that? And there's plenty of slack in the budgeted flying hours?

[Jackonicko]

......... and nor does criticising the witless way in which the Palace and the RAF have handled the Prince's attachment to the RAF make one a dyed-in-the-wool republican or anti-Royalist. Whoever expressed the opinion that these seem like two nice young men, one of whom has earned our respect on the frontline in Afghanistan, but who could perhaps adjust the give:take ratio slightly sums up my feelings perfectly.

[davejb]

Personally I think Jacko's nailed it pretty well, it's not so much the abuse of the system that has raised the visibilty as the silly attempt to describe it as perfectly normal.

I also think that if you believe a thread that keeps going is annoying, then you should avoid reading it and leave those who wish to keep it going to do so... nobody is forcing anyone to read anything on Pprune for heaven's sake, if the discussion offends you in some way then why are you taking part in it? At one point I thought we were going to get a whole page of people asking when the thread would end, an oblivion that might have occurred had those complaining about the thread forbore from posting on it and bringing it back to the top each time. It isn't rocket science chaps....

Dave

[Lafyar Cokov]

Billy Piper is up the duff???? How did that happen???

[Biggus]

Union Jack

My scroll doesn't say anything about "heirs and successors"......

Have I got a forgery?

Have I been acting under false pretenses all these years?

Does my service to the Crown cease on the demise of the current Queen (who, on a serious note, I very much hope outlives my RAF career by many years).....??

[Training Risky]

Or maybe some posters should realise that Pprune is not the Mess or the crewroom and all the harumphing and rustling of the Telegraph cannot stop people posting jokes/comments/opinions that some may find distasteful. Yes, illegal and obscene stuff gets ejected by the mods....but a joke about a throbbing chopper in Kate's overgrown allotment....come on, it's banter.:rolleyes:

If you think that's bad, take a look at what's on Arrse! Some of the pongo banter there would make your nose bleed.

And another thing.....somebody go into Main Building with it's multi-million pound chairs and modern artwork and tell CAS to chill the fu(k out before he throws vitriol all over an overworked, underpaid, soon-to-PVR SH Force for doing what it was ordered to by the Palace/MOD/sponsors of Op Golden Balls...(Kestrel).

[St Johns Wort]

He cant have flown over Highgrove:= its a PMP......................init?:rolleyes:

[TEEEJ]

A nice little earner for one of the snappers on the hill. Looks like it was taken up by the M6 at Tebay. 41 Sqn GR.4.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=561832&in_page_id=1770

Cheers

TJ

[Father Jack Hackett]

I have, on occasion, managed to quite legitimately use Her Majesty's ac to transport my loins and liver to various soirees but I didn't do it as often and in a condensed period of time as the big lad. Once or twice would have been forgivable but to do it as much with as big a spotlight focussed certainly puts this episode into the aforesaid "naive" bracket. I have no personal problem with anything Wills did with 7 because I do believe that there is not enough legitimate fun to be had anymore and we should engender a positive attitude to the forces in our future regent. But seriously folks, does this guy not have some sort of a press agent?

[goofer]

Wow. 175 posts and counting. Seems like a few nerves have been tweaked by this “non-story.”

There’s a real chance that something similar might happen when PW does his RN time.

“Collective errors of judgment” such as the Chinook non-story are less likely if the dreaded Red Carpet Fever can be kept at bay.

It helps to remember that our allegiance is to the Sovereign – a position PW is unlikely to reach until around the time of the centenaries of the Battles of Britain/ Bismarck/Alamein (incidentally, what better time for the new king to receive flying badges, submariners’ dolphins, green berets, garters etc etc).

Until then, even instinctive royalists can be reassured that dissent is not to be confused with disloyalty. Assisting her offspring’s offspring to embarrass themselves is a service the Crown doesn’t ask - let alone oblige - us to perform.

Plus, the harrumphers might recognise that the tabloids we love to hate are the very same ones so assiduously courted by palace spin doctors – often hawking (or suppressing) stories about “The Boys.” The services should stay aloof from this palace/press backscratching.

Meanwhile we can... be grateful the younger Windsors are keen to wear uniform, enjoy their company, encourage their understanding of military matters - and help them avoid mistakes they’re as likely to make as the rest of us.



Now - bring on the Dark Blue. Op Golden Rivet anyone?

[Navy_Adversary]

Daily Mail
"taken on the 80-minute sortie from RAF Coningsby, Lincolnshire"

I didn't know that Coningsby had Muds:8

[ZH875]

Daily Mail
"taken on the 80-minute sortie from RAF Coningsby, Lincolnshire"

I didn't know that Coningsby had Muds:8

Not much of a :8 are you!!!!


Never heard of 41(R) Sqn (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafconingsby/aboutus/41reservesquadron.cfm), the Fast Jet & Weapons OEU, it has Harriers and Tornado GR4 aircraft, it is based at RAF Coningsby!

[TEEEJ]

Video of the 41(R) Sqn GR.4 going through Tebay/M6 Looks like a 41 (R) Sqn Harrier leading.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/video/article300101.ece

Cheers

TJ

[Al R]

What does make me wonder - just how much of a taste of the RAF has William had in his attachment to the RAF? All he seems to have done is break up his time between partying with jollies. Has he chatted to apprentices in training, gunners doing pre deployment training, MCSU chefs, SWOs, people undergoing resettlement etc etc? I wonder. To look back fondly on a few months of flying about, without having an understanding of what makes the RAF tick under the surface seems like educating someone in the price of something, but the value of nothing.

And if someone of influence is reading, can someone please tell Harry to get A F:mad:KING HAIRCUT? The pretentious little hobbyist looks like a bag of ****. Compare him with the subaltern from 3 Para being interviewed yesterday. In fact, don't. There is no comparison to be had.

[GPMG]

I think that your selling Harry a bit short there AIR.

Anyway I thought it was a perk of the job as a normal pongo officer to have a wavy floppy haircut?

[Al R]

Fair one - he's only Cav after all. This precis of 3 Para at the moment is worth a few minutes. Not much floppy hair there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7364357.stm

[Roland Pulfrew]

From the Daily Mail article:

Prince William was no doubt glad to get a taste of some real RAF flying yesterday

Oh are they going to hell for that one!! :E

[goudie]

Roland, that quote nicely sums up just how much crap is published about PW's flying activities.

[Dan D'air]

This precis of 3 Para at the moment is worth a few minutes. Not much floppy hair there.

L/Cpl Philip Briggs - Fantastic sideys mate!!

[Al R]

Indeed, nice lamb chops. :ok:

I was fixed once, by Mike Jackson's beady gaze and he boomed: 'Aha! The only person in theatre with longer hair than me!'. The RSM's eyes widened and afterwards, as he hunted me down, we skipped town pronto.

For those who know him, I was with Ernie Kay at the time.

[scribbler614]

Roland and Goudie, mea culpa.

Quote:
Prince William was no doubt glad to get a taste of some real RAF flying yesterday

I happen to know that the Daily Mail's conscientious journos filed an accurate, well-sourced and factually sound account of this sortie, and that some smart-arse sub editor added his own snide comments about 'real RAF flying.' He will indeed be an underslung load to the deepest pit of Hades.

I bow to none in my admiration for the Wokka community, and am grateful for every lift they've ever given me in all sorts of places.
:ugh:

[exscribbler]

Any comments on the likelihood of RN PR being very different?:ok:

[GPMG]

I'm sure he will be sent out into disputed waters in a rubber dingy and a spud gun at least a far enough away from any support as to make it meaningless.

Then he can meet new friends and pick up an Ipod and a new suit, then blub about being bitten by a mosquito on national TV.

[scribbler614]

At least it'll be a bit harder for us grubby hacks to follow him around if he's floating somehwere on the oggin - provided the Sea Lords can keep him away from Iranian speedboats.
Tip to future king - leave the iPod and tabs at home. They're SO last year.