View Full Version : TOLD Card (take off and landing data)


ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 17:49
Hi Gentlemen,
Can I please get some info on what you do with a used TOLD card.
Do you cross it out with a pen or do you tear it?
Thank you Arend III.



fernytickles
14th Apr 2008, 17:55
We use "post-it" notes - a lot easier and cheaper to restock

kwachon
14th Apr 2008, 17:55
Have it laminated then use a chinograph pencil. It will last forever....

KW :}

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 18:00
Sure but how do you get it past the IOSA guys?

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 18:09
Everyone gone offline then????????????????

IOSA-Come on, what's your take on this?

kwachon
14th Apr 2008, 18:16
As long as the card being laminated is approved for use in your aircraft, I doubt if IOSA would care less just because you use a chinograph. A told card is not a legal requirement to the same degree as a weight and balance sheet.

Kennytheking
14th Apr 2008, 18:18
Hi,

Transcribe the data onto your nav log.

Rgds

Kenny

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 18:21
Apparently not acceptable-Company says IOSA requirement-hence the original post.

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 18:26
You sure about that Sir?
To Kwachon.

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 18:33
Hi Kenny the King,
Yes we have most of the data reflected on the comm-log but V1, VR, V2 only appear on the Told card. I ask again, what do you do with your used Told cards, not what everyone uses.

south coast
14th Apr 2008, 18:57
Not a legal requirement.

Most modern planes dont used told cards, all the info is bugged and on your pfd and/or on the mfd.

It is someone being anal at your company.

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 19:12
Yeah - You may be right, I hope not.
Told Cards are ,in my life sacrosanct.
I would still like to hear from someone what they do with them,when they are finished with them.
That was the start of the thread.
Can anyone help?
ArendIII.

Capt.Tentacles
14th Apr 2008, 19:14
At the end of the trip we put it back in the Trip Paperwork envelope......

Solid Rust Twotter
14th Apr 2008, 19:17
Hide them in the captain's nav bag along with one of these.....


http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/primary/sun-scorpion.jpg

ARENDIII
14th Apr 2008, 19:19
Thanks, will try and and sort it out myself-FLY SAFELY!!!
ArendIII.

south coast
14th Apr 2008, 19:29
Dont you get it, no one uses them so there is nothing to do with them at the end of the flight.

Q4NVS
14th Apr 2008, 19:59
As soon as the park brake is applied (for the applicable sector), they go into the Cockpit Rubbish Bag (Seriously).

Btw, we are IOSA Accredited...
:zzz:

Solid Rust Twotter
14th Apr 2008, 20:23
Seriously - Part of our comm logs so just gets filed as normal.

Kennytheking
15th Apr 2008, 04:10
Hi Arend,

At EK we extract the data from a computer and then put it all on the front page of the navigation log

We show the runway, the TOW, flex thrust temp, v1, vr, v2, flap setting, EO acc alt and EO escape path.

Alternatively, at my previous company, we had a disposible one which went into an envelope with all of the other paperwork after the flight.

ThreeHolerHauler
15th Apr 2008, 05:09
Hi Arend.

At my previous company we used to tear them halfway and place them in the flight folder. At my present company they are crumpled up and thrown in the bin.

cavortingcheetah
15th Apr 2008, 05:53
:hmm:

You can have a play around with this, but the precise information required seems to be lacking in the specifics of the document.

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/6E494988-9670-4B51-8EDF-0CCFDBDCB960/60779/ISMEd2Rev1April2007withEd2Rev1TR1.pdf

Anyway, once you've waded through all 520 pages and discovered that there seems to be no workable index the answer to your question is probably contained within what follows.

Most pilots rip up the TOLD cards and discard them lest the wrong card be used in the future. Pilots probably should place the used TOLD card, which should at least have a date or flight number written somewhere on it, with the rest of the flight paperwork to be retained for the appropriate period of time.

Some operators do keep them, some do not, some do not even use them at all, as has been pointed out. The presumption then must be that if your operator requires TOLD cards, as perhaps per Ops Manual, then they form part of the flight documentation and must be kept as such.:ouch:

AirwayBlocker
15th Apr 2008, 15:47
Arend,

Have you considered asking your ops manager what he/she would like you to do with them? Seems that if your company wants to satisfy some IOSA requirement then they would be the best source of an answer to your question.

And if you do I, for one, would be curious to know his/her answer.

I know of companies that use them and those that don't. I even know one company that was using them on one fleet but not on the other. I'm not sure what their current situation is though.

Malagant
16th Apr 2008, 02:14
Supposed to attached them to the Nav logs, Daily flight reports W&B and flight plan copy and retained at your company, and it can be used a a legal document somewhere down the line if you need to..also depends if you flying part 121/135 etc. These days you have to monitor fuel use and make an entry at each fix of fuel remaining on the Nav log etc as the CAA are starting to check the nav logs and they will pull the nav log if they suspect you didn`t have the correct fuel or something about that particular flight that caught their attention and a TOLD card with the correct T/ Off weight etc will just maybe save yo butt.

mutt
16th Apr 2008, 03:42
We keep them in the flight envelope and return them to dispatch, they are then filed for a period of 6 months. They are audited on occasions to check how accurate they are and if crew training methods need to be revised. We are IOSA certified.

I dont think that it comes down to having them or not, but actually showing a process that exists if you do have them.

Mutt

Zenj
16th Apr 2008, 07:54
We have passed thru lot of scenarios.
1, we put them together in the paper folder

2, when SAA came in , we tear them after take-off checklist is completed, no landing data needed on the card

3, now again on our own , we fill the landing, not necessary though, then tear them into the dustbins after landing

No clear or precise guidelines from the airline itself.

ARENDIII
20th Apr 2008, 23:24
Thank you guys!
It seems as though we need a concerted effort to have some sort of standardisation as far as this is concerned.
To those of you who saw where I was coming from - thank you once again.
To all - A safe year ahead.
Arend III.:D