Typhoon "Blue Note"

[jimgriff]

Was sitting in loft chatting to the solar heating fitter (as one does) and listening to the daily joust by the knights of the air here in LFA (7T) with the usual host of GR4's and Hawks going over when a distinct blue note was heard.
Same note heard as the next Typhoon passed. (I was outside by now)

I'm aware that the old (yes I can remember them) hunters used to fly over they too had a distict noise from what I am told were the gun ports, but what causes it on the Typhoon? Nice to be able to distinguish different a/c by engine noise, but am intrigued as to why and how.

I know.....I am very sad, (but interested):8

[Rocket2]

It was probably "Puddy" Cat doing a ghostly blue note in Sir Winston :eek:

[Zoom]

I agree, jimgriff. It's good to be able to identify an aircraft without having to crash through the furniture to get to the window just in time to see a trail of smoke disappearing over the hedge. The Meatbox (Meteor) had an unmistakable blue note too.

[markjayne]

Is it anything to do with them big square intakes. You certainly know its a Typhoon when its coming in from a distance, sounds like a turbo charged hoover.

Mark

[polyglory]

I'll second that, lovely sound the Meteor.

Hopefully will be able to hear the Typhoon later this year.

A blast from the past :)

http://www.btinternet.com/~javelin/p07_sounds/p07_sounds.htm

[BEagle]

Last I heard, Puddy was still propping up the corner of the bar down near Brawdy - and Sir Winston is now flying in the Antipodes.

If only the 2 could be reunited!

Puddy tried to shoo some navy boat out of Hartland range once during a live air-to-air session when flying Winston with the flag on the back. "Got the bugger's number", he told us when he got back.

We looked it up in Janes'. HMS Bronington, captained by Prince Charles!

A pair of EuroBlighters overflew BEagle Towers on the way to RIAT last year - they definitely have a characteristic note. Not blue, perhaps pink?

[Green Flash]

Maybe it should have a Purple note, in this Joint day and age?


Mind you, I'm sure I heard a Typhoon driver sound a Brown note, at Fairford, a year or two ago?!!!!!!!!!

[Rocket2]

"Last I heard, Puddy was still propping up the corner of the bar down near Brawdy"
Probably still in his Plus 4's :) Wonderful chap who had much respect from us mere mortal ground crew wallers on VASF.

[enginesuck]

Er what is a Blue note ?

Nb - no points given for the first person to chuckle at my 'silly question' or to refer to me as a Bluntie OK?

[Green Flash]

Ah, you've never heard one, then? I'm sure someone more eloquent can come up with a good description, suffice to say when you hear your first blue mote you won't forget it!

[BEagle]

I think it comes from the days of jazz.....


Nice.

Groovy.

OK?


...and refers to an underlying low note beneath the other sounds.

But it's the WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHH sound a Hunter makes.

[UpShutter]

You can just make out the Hunter bluenote (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pixalzone3/Video/Bluenote.mpg) on this clip.

[Razor61]

Blue note from a Hunter:-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4mz4ZTTuEt0&feature=related

and another right at the beginning:-
starting at 4sec and ending 6sec
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OtaoZvB7EFs

[henry crun]

A very short clip of the Meteor blue note here.

http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/meteor.cfm

[ShyTorque]

You can definitely hear one here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=WL2vaSNbPbo&feature=related

;)

[tartare]

Yep... beagle's right.
As well as a plane geek, I'm a musician.
A blue note is a flattened or sharpened note in a chord, giving it that jazzy or bluesy sound. Can be a fifth, seventh, ninth or thirteenth above the tonic, if you want to get really technical.
What a great name for an aspect of the sound of those old jets that i was never able to describe. I thought it was due to old turbojets.
You learn something new every day...

[Lou DeCrosse]

You certainly know its a Typhoon when its coming in from a distance, sounds like a turbo charged hoover.


I must admit to not having heard a turbocharged hoover before!

Lou

[Wingswinger]

Ah, the Blue Note. I love it. I used to enjoy winding a Hunter up knowing I would be dropping a "blue" for the public to enjoy.

The blue note is produced by the four cartridge ejector chutes which protrude into the airflow from the rear of the gun-pack. It's the same as blowing over the end of an open bottle with added doppler effect. The T7 did not have cartridge ejectors chutes which is why it doesn't make a blue note. I suppose the 'phoon must have an orifice sticking out into the air somewhere to make a similar noise.

For me, the hunter "blue" and the sound of a merlin engine are the two most evocative noises in aviation.

[GPMG]

The hunter must rate as one of the most beautifull jets ever made.

And it sounds stunning as well.

Does anyone know of any display's that it will feature in this year?

[enginesuck]

Ah now i get you thanks for the clarification. :\

[Roland Pulfrew]

GPMG

According to the RIAT (http://www.airtattoo.com/airtattoo/Aircraft/participation) website you can see one flying there.

The RAF 90th participation is looking a bit thin at the moment - sign of the times I suppose. :(

[FJJP]

ISTR that Terry Cairns used to get a mean blue note out of the Canberra PR9...

[Lower Hangar]

The Javelin had a distinctive sound as well for those that can remember !!

[ricardian]

The hunter must rate as one of the most beautifull jets ever made.


My old boss was a Hunter pilot (QFI etc) and according to him the Hunter was a "gentleman's aeroplane".

[GPMG]

Thank you RP, that is quite a line up of jets. Will be nice to see the Raptor and also the B1b (if they have any left).

[BEagle]

Often concluded by a loud THUD?

.

[aviate1138]

What about the Javelin's note when taxiing? I was at RAF Benson in 60/61 and a few were ferried out to the Far East I think. The hoover sound and the mismatch between the engines produced some really weird resonances. Don't suppose anyone has any sounds of the beast anywhere?

[antipodean alligator]

Here you go:

http://www.btinternet.com/~javelin/javelins.wav
:ok:

[ACW599]

>A blue note is a flattened or sharpened note in a chord, giving it that jazzy or bluesy sound. Can be a fifth, seventh, ninth or thirteenth above the tonic, if you want to get really technical<.

True, but the Hunter doesn't generate a "blue" note in the musicological sense. It's more of a descending tritone (if you're old enough, think of the sound of a passing Vanguard for an aviation equivalent) with a bit of added harmony. Known since the fourteenth century as diabolus in musica and a staple of heavy metal amongst much else.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all,
Wingswinger, I'll trade your rattly Merlin noise(British valves, FFS) for the note emitted by the supercharger of Black 6's Daimler-Benz 605, any day.
apart from that, what musical sound would correspond to the noise emitted by today's CFM56 fans?
regards
TDD

[blue monday]

The Vulcan, was that famous Vulcan howl a blue note.

[effortless]

Oh the howl of the Vampire, was that "blue"? It makes me blue with nostalgia.

[ACW599]

>The Vulcan, was that famous Vulcan howl a blue note.<

Not in the musical sense. By ear, the harmonic structure is mostly built up from minor thirds and fifths, and at higher power settings it becomes a dominant minor ninth with added eleventh. The fifth becomes a sharp fourth at high power settings; that's the bit that raises the hairs on the back of your neck. The intake resonance adds various sub-octaves and their harmonics to the mixture.

The chord at the beginning of the Beatles' "Hard Day's Night" is a rough approximation to the underlying harmony.

[Flatus Veteranus]

The Vampire was known amongst the Meatbox fraternity as the "screaming kiddy-car". I would not have described its emission as a "howl".

The Spitfire and the Hunter have been described, quite rightly, as "ladies' aeroplanes". The Meatbox was a true "gents' aeroplane". It needed a bit more brute force than the average lady could deliver.

[CHINOOKER]

Had the best of "both worlds" the other week!.....Living just to the north of the approach to Northolt,we were treated at lunchtime to the "Reds" plus a 4 ship of Typhoons going east-west.........Then for the evening we had the spectacle of a spitfire holding above us,prior to a flypast at Hendon,then just as that had dissapeared the sky behind our house was filled with a formation of Typhoons going to Hendon as well. Pity every day can't be like that!!.
To all those involved on the day,"nice flying boys",(and girls??),..very much appreciated ,especially the Typhoons in the evening...superb sound,super tight formation!!

[Jetex Jim]

Not in the musical sense. By ear, the harmonic structure is mostly built up from minor thirds and fifths, and at higher power settings it becomes a dominant minor ninth with added eleventh. The fifth becomes a sharp fourth at high power settings; that's the bit that raises the hairs on the back of your neck. The intake resonance adds various sub-octaves and their harmonics to the mixture.


This is by far, the most interesting thread on prune for sometime. I'm astonished some misery hasn't been on by now, claiming its not pertinent, shouldn't be on the forum blah, blah blah.

[Gainesy]

Not in the musical sense. By ear, the harmonic structure is mostly built up from minor thirds and fifths, and at higher power settings it becomes a dominant minor ninth with added eleventh. The fifth becomes a sharp fourth at high power settings; that's the bit that raises the hairs on the back of your neck. The intake resonance adds various sub-octaves and their harmonics to the mixture.

You mean a howl then?:)

[EyesFront]

Showing my age, but I do miss the raw sound of a couple of Avons or Speys doing a low-level air display. I grew up near the Bristol Channel to a soundtrack of Sea Vixens and Scimitars using the ranges off Doniford, and the occasional high level Gannet - there was a distinctive sound!. The noisiest displays I remember were by 'Fred's Five' at Yeovilton Air Days - ten Avons at full chat, flying VERY low directly overhead before a 'bomb-burst'. I enjoyed many lively Phantom and Buccaneer displays in later years, but those Sea Vixens certainly made an impression.

[bvcu]

Wingswinger
Have to contradict you on hunter blue note, we had a MK9 at a large airfield in wiltshire that would do a lovely blue note with no cartridge ejector chutes or sabrinas fitted, but gun ports were open. Both MK 6's we had wouldnt do it as the gun ports were faired over . Seem to rember it was a fairly narrow speed band to produce the optimum note !!

[Fishtailed]

Correct me if I'm wrong, (not worth saying, really), but I believe, from many years of observation, only the twin seater Typhoon produces a 'blue note', and only production ones at that. Heard it first when RAF Warton became operational. A marvelous sound.:ok:

[GeeRam]

Wingswinger, I'll trade your rattly Merlin noise(British valves, FFS) for the note emitted by the supercharger of Black 6's Daimler-Benz 605, any day.

From a geeky engineering perspective:oh:
I'm inclinded to agree with that too..........:ok:

[Doctor Cruces]

FJJP,

I understand that Tery Cairns could squeeze a blue note out of the PR9 almost at will.

Certainly did one at 39's reunion in 96 or 97 (memory, you know)

Doc C

[Art Field]

The most noticeable sound from the Javelin was at idle, not so much a blue note but rather a moan, a sound shared by the Victor 1's which also had the Sapphire engine. Nostalgic perhaps but a pain at three in the morning when you are trying to sleep.

Those of us that live in Oxfordshire still occasionally hear the glorious Meteor blue note as Martin Baker have one they operate out of Chalgrove.

The Vampire was renown for the strange sounds emanating from its engine. Indeed the Australians grounded all theirs and came to Fenton in 65 to check on ours only to discover that the Vampire always made weird noises which we considered quite normal, it was when it stopped making weird noises you should start worrying.

[Wingswinger]

bvcu,

we had a MK9 at a large airfield in wiltshire that would do a lovely blue note with no cartridge ejector chutes or sabrinas fitted, but gun ports were open. Both MK 6's we had wouldnt do it as the gun ports were faired over . Seem to rember it was a fairly narrow speed band to produce the optimum note !!

I'm surprised. Crewroom opinion at Brawdy was pretty firm on the cartridge ejector chutes. Blue notes were just detectable as a low hum at 360kts on the run in and break into the circuit, rising in volume and pitch with increasing speed all the way up to the IAS limit. The higher one was, the better the note as it was longer lasting.

[BEagle]

I'm told that in the Hunter GT6, some form of note could be generated by winding it up to 480 KIAS plus (not difficult), then flipping the airbrake test switch (gave about 10 deg airbrake).....

Certainly the QFI who came through the 4FTS groundschool 'survival exercise' site very low and at the speed of heat generated a superb noise!

And got severely in the poo with 'Tojo' (the Stn Cdr) as a result.