Salaries

[R22_EGNH]

Ok, don't blame me for asking this (no I'm not only motivated by the money before anyone asks!) but how much can one expect to earn in a first job after training, North Sea for example ?

How about after that? How long does it take to become captain and how much can an average pilot expect to earn?

Obviously, this will vary from pilot to pilot and so all I'm asking for is a rough guide.

Thanks,

R22_EGNH

[4ftHover]

There are quite a few posts on here re salaries if you run a search.

I would expect you'll be looking at FI after training to build hours with North Sea work some 3000 hours down the road.

Sure some guys on here will provide better details than myself.

Best of luck :ok:

[SFHawk]

Hi there,

Entering the North Sea with CPL IR you can expect around £40k as First Officer. The companies differ in progress but where I am you can expect around £5k-£10k hike in salary when achieving Senior First Officer after approx two years. After that, if you've not gone stir crazy from looking at the sea all day, it's the waiting game for a command.

SFHawk.

[Bladecrack]

I would expect you'll be looking at FI after training to build hours with North Sea work some 3000 hours down the road

Not anymore, skip the FI, do an IR, and go N. Sea with 200 hrs +/-, why waste all that time and effort instructing for crap pay (like I did) when you can get a decent job with a salary, holidays etc etc :}

[Bravo73]

Not anymore, skip the FI, do an IR, and go N. Sea with 200 hrs +/-, why waste all that time and effort instructing for crap pay (like I did) when you can get a decent job with a salary, holidays etc etc :}

Ever heard of 'putting all of your eggs in one basket'? :hmm:

[Bladecrack]

Yeah, but if your gonna spend that sort of money I would go for the option with the best chance of success, the odds are better...

[Bravo73]

Yeah, but if your gonna spend that sort of money I would go for the option with the best chance of success, the odds are better...

Exactly. And the odds of getting your first job with a CPL/FI are much better than with a CPL/IR! ;)


Have you forgotten Camp Freddie's 'High risk/high reward, lower risk/lower reward' formula?

[helimutt]

waiting for a downturn anyone? it'll happen.

salary offshore? what? you want paid aswell?
sheesh.

[Bladecrack]

Bravo73,

CF's formula is a good guide, and yes there is work out there for FI's (Ive just turned down some FI work cos I can't fit it in) however I know at least half a dozen guys that have done IR's in the last 6 months, with different experience levels, and every one of them has secured a good job shortly after completing their course! I don't know any CPL/IR holders that can't get work at the minute...

BC

[Bravo73]

I don't know any CPL/IR holders that can't get work at the minute...

I do. There was a thread recently about this very topic ie 'CPL/IR with 200hrs but can't get a job in the NS. Help.' There were 2 people that I sent PMs to with suggestions for alternative areas of work. (And bear in mind that those 2 were the 'vocal minority'. I'm sure that there were others in the same position who were reading the thread.)

But the outcome was basically this: with a CPL/IR and 200hrs, your ONLY option is the NS.

There are other (onshore) operators who are now employing CPL/IR co-joes. But none of them are interested in 200hr newbies; they want a few hundred (if not a 1000hrs) experience first.

So if somebody really wants to give themselves the best chance of employment, I would do the following: CPL then FI. Work for 12 months as FI. (TT now 700-1000hrs.) Do IR. The world's your oyster! ;)

[offshore_taxidriver]

Are there any more opinions on CPL/IR +/- 200Hours? :ugh:my crippling indecisiveness does not help things either.

[Helipilot1982]

I have a cpl/ir with 240hrs rotary TT and have just started a type rating for one of the North Sea operators - It took me 6 months to secure a job and start my type rating after my IR so my opinion may be a little biased!!!

but...

It worked for me - maybe i was lucky (i dont know). If you want it - go for it and dont let anybody tell you otherwise. If your a little apprehensive about working on the North Sea then excercise caution as the money may be better spent on an FI course.

:ok:HP1982

[Camp Freddie]

Those of us with long memories will read comments like this:-

Not anymore, skip the FI, do an IR, and go N. Sea with 200 hrs +/-, why waste all that time and effort instructing for crap pay (like I did) when you can get a decent job with a salary, holidays etc etc

and realise how dangerous this advice is, sure it has worked recently for a while, but like the property market the NS job market is cyclical.

I was one of the last of around 40 people to be hired by one of the NS operators earlier this decade, shortly after I joined they stopped hiring and did not hire again for 3 (yes THREE) years, whether they had an IR or not.

Bravo 73 has it about right when he says

Ever heard of 'putting all of your eggs in one basket'?

and helimutt knows the score when he says

waiting for a downturn anyone? it'll happen.

its all a matter of how dangerous you are feeling today, right now I would do the low risk route and when I had more experience get the IR, but then I am not much of a gambler, I have met too many gamblers who have lost there shirt.

regards

CF

[ROTORVATION]

Certainly seems there has been a big influx in the North Sea operators taking on 200hr CPL's with IR's; most of my friends have secured positions in the last 12 months.

Agree also with Camp Freddie that going along the FI route is without question the least risk to yourself. Just a pointer though, I've been instructing now for 2 and a half years, have 2000 hours r22/r44 time, and in my first year was fortunate enough to earn 35k, and 36k in my second financial year. And this year..... I've earned absolutly scratch! The general public are tightening their belts, and it's having a big knock on with instructional work.

Also if your married as I am, being an instructor means you have to work EVERY weekend, cause that's when the bulk of your income is earned. Do it for long enough and you'll get annoyed that you will never see your mates of a weekend, or spend any decent amount of time with your partner.

Get your Ir, and get yourself offshore - you will go to sleep each night feeling secure that you know exactly how much your going to earn that month. Agreed, you will do shifts, but atleast you can plan ahead knowing what days you have off, and you won't work EVERY weekend!

If I had half an opportunity, I would be getting my IR behind me - anybody got 50 grand they don't want? - I'll have it! :D:ugh:

[Flingingwings]

HP1982,

To get you're situation into context.............
How much work did you get within that six months???? Any from an operator you had no prior history with??? Any IMC or relatively complicated SP flights????

Not a dig. We know each other, but the low hours +IR route is very high risk

With very low hours and a new IR just about the only option is offshore and if that's not your 'cup of tea' and/or you're unsuccessful, to be blunt you're almost guaranteed to be stuffed :eek:

I'm no fan of an FI's pay and conditions, but concur that the safest current route is FI but with lower rewards. I'm not even going to speculate on the credit crunch and how that will affect flight training :eek:

Like B73 I know several lucky (and/or very lucky) pilots employment wise. I too know some with IR's that are struggling for work.

There are no guarantees, you simply have to 'go' with the risk you consider acceptable. :ok:

CF - you any ancient 'pirate' connections perchance????

[ManOnTheSticks]

I got my CPL & IR late last year. with the minimum number of hours. within 5 weeks of getting the IR I had 3 job offers, 2 from N sea operators and one from an on shore company. I took the latter, multi crew & multi engine scheduled flights as it was closer to home. I count myself very lucky, I never imagined myself in this position the whole way through my training.

I guess the FI/IR & N sea debate is also down to personal choice. I never felt comfortable with the fact that 'fresh out of the box' I would be teaching someone else to fly and operate a helicopter when I had no real experience myself. I know there are those who do, but it just wasn't for me.

If you know where you would like your career to go, thats great, investigate all the options and do what you feel comfortable with. Above all, network and get yourself known, there is a lot of competition for jobs and you stand a much better chance if you have a good reputation.

All the best

MOTS :ok:

[windowseatplease]

There is a LOT of IR holders around looking for work, and the North Sea aren't recruiting like they used too.

[Flingingwings]

Seems my memory is as good as CF's, HM's and B73's.................

MOTS,

Again, only to get things into context for those trying to make this decision. You're earlier posts about job hunting from December seem to paint a slightly more stressful story....................

CHC advert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The advert originally had no minimum hours requirement, this has only been put on in the last couple of weeks.

Having got the CPL/IR and applied for work over the last few months, I was wondering how many others there are in the same situation ie, low hours (300hrs TT) but all ready to go when someone gives us the green light?

and
I have applied to all the Major companies in ABZ but so far nothing has come of it. There is a finite amount of times you can ring them before they get annoyed & there is a fine line between persistence and harassment! I agree about the grounding etc

or this from early January 2008
Interview Prep

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just preparing for a forthcoming interview with CHC and after some questions I had in another interview, I wondered if anyone can supply me with (or guide me in the right direction of finding!) the following info;

Who is their main customer? (lots listed on the website)
Where are and how many platforms do they serve?
What is the average flight time to the furthest platform?
According to the CAA website they have 16 as332/mkII, how many operate from abz?
Last but not least! What are the differences between the puma and mkII? Not had chance to get close to any yet!

Thanks in advance for any help given! I have tried hours of searching but the info above has eluded me!

Cheers

MOTS

I'm not trying to flame you, or dampen a success of which you should be rightly proud BUT for those having to make this decision IMHO a totally fair and balanced view is essential and simply getting an IR is no guarantee. There will still be anxious and stressful times before the first job offer arrives

It is a major decision which way to choose and sadly whichever way any of us chooses some of us simply won't be lucky enough to get the job :{

FW

[wardy20]

Folks, this may be a stupid question, so apologies in advance. But how much are we talking about to do an IR?

Cheers,
Wardy

[Flingingwings]

Wardy,

If you're talking about the UK for an initial ME IR and initial twin rating (AS355) a realistic figure including test and other accomodation and CAA fees is about £45-50K :eek:

[wardy20]

Excuse me while I go change my pants....................................

[ManOnTheSticks]

FW, I agree, the time spent hunting for your first job is very stressful. Having just spent around £95,000 you are in a very odd position. I, like many others was very worried about spending all that money and none of the operators giving me a break.

Whether or not a good move, I applied for positions at the start of my IR hoping someone would recognise me early and I wouldn't have to wait so long without work. Looking back I was only waiting 5-6 weeks after I finished everything to starting my type rating for work, that time passed extremly slowly and I got very stressed. As it turns out it was for no reason as I had 3 offers of work within the same week. I was very lucky.

I never intended my post to give people false hope or to give people the impression that if you get an IR you are guaranteed a position. I believe that it isn't weighted in any direction, I was just saying that you need to assess all the options, work hard and network to give you the best chance of finding work. I never said there were no stressful times, or that it was plain sailing. Show me someone who isn't concered after spending that much money.

I'm not sure why you added the 3rd quote, just looking for some interview prep, working hard to give the best impression.

I wish all the people who are in the position I was in 7 months ago the best of luck finding work.

Wardy20 - I paid £43,000 for the IR and type rating last year (in the UK). I expect prices have risen since then though.

Cheers

[offshore_taxidriver]

Potentially the costs could escalate out of control. For example you go away to the states do your JAA CPL, your not getting much change out of £45k. Back to the UK to do your initial twin IR call it £42k (and this is assuming no re-tests or additional training). Now hope and prey that CHC/Bristow/Bond are recruiting. Worst case - no luck there, at this point I may feel like :yuk:. Now back up plan, back to the US to build up at least 50 additional hours call it £8000, next the instructors rating £9000 say £2000 to cover flights,food,accom

Total Cost = £106,000 !! :oh:, you better hope you don't fail your next medical!

[Flingingwings]

MOTS,

Like I said my post wasn't a 'dig' at you. I wore rose tinted glasses for quite some time. No doubt after a sales pitch from SOME schools those who aspire to join you will also be wearing those same rose tinted glasses. You didn't say it was easy or stressfree but to the aforementioned tinted glasses wearer it could sound nice and simple and your short wait could easily imply an almost guaranteed job offer from the NS big 3. All I've added is a little reality check, because of the huge risks involved, and you've now also already shown that you started the slow process of applying before the IR had ended :ok:

Financial costs for me of zero to CPL/FI ME IR were in the region of £117K, so I can still easily recall the stresses of job hunting.

Bottom line: IMHO
To get a ME IFR job as a P2 offshore, regardless of hours, requires all the determination and ingenuity you've now described, and also as you've added a measure of LUCK.

To get a ME IFR job as a P2 offshore with minimal (200-300 TT) hours requires even more LUCK.

Chances of getting an onshore (VIP,corporate,charter) ME IFR P2 job with low hours (sub 1000) almost nil. With minimal hours (200 ish) significantly less than nil.

Chances of getting any onshore SPIFR role with minimal hours and a new IR????? Better chance with the National Lottery.

Sadly thats just the way it is :{

In the current climate if a high risk is acceptable do the IR and keep your fingers crossed. If lower risk is preferable then go FI.

End of the day you pays your money you makes your choice.

Oh, and the third quote was there simply as there were about 5 weeks between the first two and the third

[choppertop]

... and for anyone interested, the latest price of a CPL(H) is £44,600 (ex-VAT) because that's what it's cost me up to today, the day I passed my skills test. [No need to congratulate me because I'm doing a fine job of that myself.] Fred doesn't come cheap, does he?!

[ManOnTheSticks]

FW - No offence taken :ok:

Choppertop - Welcome to the Clan!:D

[helimutt]

TTT, 500 yrs?? really?
You wish. At least it's a full time pay for doing very little?

What more do you want? You can tell the girls you are an 'offshore helicopter pilot' and you get home every night and get a good salary, flying modern, reliable a/c
What more do you want? Some people are never happy!! :ok:

As for IR cost, for those of you not lucky enough to get the sponsorship, budget for 40k+ in the UK. Maybe the fuel cost thing will increase that.:{

[Canuck Guy]

So just out of curiosity, what are my odds of a North Sea job? Got about 800 hours total, 600 of that in the S76.

Would it be worth a it for a Canadian to try the Europe route, or just pray CHC Global starts hiring co-pilots sooner rather than later?

[chcoffshore]

Well do you have a JAA ticket? if so apply, you never know. But there are more jobs than suitable applicants.

[Droopystop]

Anyone contemplating a NS job should be talking to the companies direct. They are the best and only people to ask about future recruitment.

[helimutt]

TTT, you have too much time on your hands. Fixed roster? You sure? See what I can do then.:ok:

As for salaries, anyone know if there is any truth in the rumour that Bristows want a 20% raise?