Aerodynamics - Malaga

[jv2379]

I'm thinking of enrolling in a ME-IR course at Aerodynamics based at Malaga international airport.
I would appreciate any comments regarding this flight school, good or bad.

Thanks for your comments

Jacques

[EIDW RJ85]

Well im only back a matter of days from an FAA IR conversion that is quoted to take 2 weeks. It took me 1 month!!!

School is very impressive with decent instructors. Sim is good but is based on aerodynamics Jet that they do type rating on and is nothing like the Dutchess or Seneca. All went fine during the sim and then i moved on to the 7 hours flying.

When u do fly it is usually to ferry the aircraft to and from the maintenance field. Or in my case to pick it up from maintenance and then to collect 2 students who were stranded in seville as the dutchess broke. Collected them and guess what?? engine failed in the seneca during run ups. Turned out the Seneca engine was bunched and was out of service indefinatly. No flying for 6 days, then all the seneca pilots were put in the dutchess. Now there were 12 people flying that and it goes down for 50 hr check...

So you can get the jist of it. Had endless meetings with the director of the company telling him I want the extra accomodation and car rental paid for as i had to extend my stay. He says NO. I then asked why he wont lease in an aircraft to clear the backlog, he said its not "Financially Viable" for the company.

I eventually finished after 4 weeks there and had more days of no flying than I did flying. The two aircraft are old and clapped out and forever in maintenance. In short you get what you pay for with them and the school is decent enough but have NO backup plan when things go wrong with the aircraft. I only finished when i did because i ended up screaming at the director of the company and I really had to fight to be put at the top of the list. There are other guys still there sitting in hotel rooms whom i was training with. The seneca is still broken and the dutchess flys so much now its having its 50 & 100 hr checks every few days??

[pipergirl]

Sounds exactly like the experience I had there last year.
You know, I think when it comes to tech aircraft, it is something you have to go along with. It's just one of those things. But in Aerodynamics it was different. I can't quite explain, but it was different from anywhere I had been before. This seems to happen quite a lot and when people complain there is a definite air of "so, f**king what". People before me had problems and I have since heard of others who had problems. It just seems to be ongoing and no resolution.

In retrospect, I would have paid the extra cash to do it somewhere in the UK or Ireland.
I'd stay well clear.

[sparx007]

hey folks,

Just a quick qiestion for those who have been to ADM, can you advise on the costs or ME/IR or IR if holding ME, whichever position you were in. Either way can you comment on the costs (typical) of accomodation and likely expenses.

Cheers,

Sparx007

[LH2]

I only finished when i did because i ended up screaming at the director of the company

Have you considered that might be precisely the reason why it took you so long? Losing your rag does not cut it with the Spaniards, so do not try it. Forget also all that crap about "I'm the customer", etc., as far as they're concerned they want something from you and you want something from them so it's give a little and take a little.

In my experience, the aeroplanes did not seem to suffer significantly more downtime than usual, it's just that they average something like 10 hours a day in the air every day. Just from the 50hr checks you are going to have a day downtime every week. I do agree a third twin would help things enormously, but then again, if the boss says it doesn't make financial sense... he must know better than me.

Sparx &al, there is a long running thread on Aerodynamics, which is referenced at the bottom of this one. You can find all your answers there (I'm surprised they haven't been merged yet).

[pipergirl]

When I was there, there was a considerable backlog of students building up and the school were not making any attempts to tell people in advance of their arrival there were problems-which they knew full well about. So, what was happening was 10 already delayed students getting nowhere fast and every few days another few students on to the pile, so to speak.

The situation was quite bad at one point and a lot of people started losing the plot, which was understandable.

I do think there is a certain amount of give and take-sometimes tech problems, weather problems happen..there's nothing you can do about it and you just have to cope with it-but the school did not seem to be able to communicate efficiently with the students about the situation. This just made things a hell of a lot worse.
If the communication had been better, it would have eased the tensions hugely.

We were dealing with a certain young lady in the office, who was not coping with the situation and was making the situation worse. Contact with the director of the company, who was an Englishman, to try and discuss the problems etc...was made and all problems were discussed and to be fair, they did try their best after that point.

I do agree that there is give and take-but when they have your dosh and you are being treated quite badly, then you are well entitled to lose the rag.
Although, the manner in which you control your anger/frustration can either make or break your argument!

My opinion of the school is-
This was a significant problem last year and yes, I think they could be forgiven for that if they had never experienced this problem prior to what happened when I was there.
HOWEVER, it appears from what EIDW 747 is saying-they are experiencing exactly the same problem again (maybe it has even happened between my exerience and EIDW's experience!?) and in that case, that is not excusable.
They had a bad experience and should have organised themselves better, but it has happened again.

On that basis and on the basis of my own experience and the sheer frustration of attending the school, I would not recommend them.

[LH2]

When I was there, there was a considerable backlog of students building up

You were there about a year ago, is that right? I read about the situation you describe on a Spanish forum (it might well have been a different instance though). OTOH when I was there a couple months ago I was told by someone that they were rejecting students so they may have learned that lesson.

Personally, I just had a couple days downtime early on which was not a problem since I went in the sim instead, after that everything went as planned. I did like their no-nonsense approach, unlike in the UK where IME they seem to cater for the lowest common denominator (so any monkey who's got the money ends up with a licence sooner or latter). Complaints? Well, I thought one of the instructors was a bit of a tit, but nothing that can't be sorted with a quick honest chat with the person involved.

btw, to my knowledge none of the directors are British. I think the person you refer to is one of the investors? I might be wrong again, though.

Lastly, I don't know, but I've had great experiences everywhere I've trained so far. Maybe I've just been incredibly lucky :)

Anyway, whichever way you do it, have fun :ok:

[supramkiv]

I did my full JAA ME/IR with AM last April/May. I can echo some of the comments above, a/c went tech (I flew 3 different twins over the 15 hours) and I didn't manage to complete the course in the timescale quoted.

However this seems fairly common across various flying schools and clubs I have flown with (especially Florida schools i've experienced which are even worse). However to AM credit they are one of the few FTO's who stick to the financial budget quoted. When the a/c was tech for a few days I received extra sim sessions for no extra charge. The IR check was included in the price and covered the entire test no matter how long it lasted. They didn't charge fuel surcharges every time the price of oil fluctuated. They discounted my rent when it passed the quoted timescale.

Overall I was very satisfied with the course considering the price charged. As for the quality of Spanish IR's I find you take out what you put in, you can pass the IR test at a standard below that of some other JAA countries, but with time and effort you can gain the rating and be of an equally high standard of an IR taken with any other JAA state.

A spanish IR has never held me back, I gained it last may, had 2 interviews in july and started RHS in a jet in october 2007.

Hope this helps and good luck :ok:

[kolibri]

Dear EIDW 747,

I read the forum just today. I wish to thank you again to come to pick me up that day in Seville when the duchess was broken!!!

The school needs absolutely a third or a forth twins... No way to do all the job with only two planes if you plan to fly 7 days a week!!! I heard of a third one coming but is still not there.

Apart from that the school is fine and CAA see very well the file of your training done in Aerodynamics.

I have to say that when I was there I was quite disappointed about few things... now I would say that if I had to choose again I will go for aerodynamics again!

Good luck guys.

[WMB]

Look guys, you are all forgetting one thing, we all went to Malaga because of the price, anyone that say different is a liar. It was half the price of a UK IR, which was a 7000 pound saving for me, and for 7000 i will put up with a lot of ****! So stop whining, get down to business and get on with you life. Two years from now when you are in the right seat, on short final to land in Malaga, you will see brightly painted twin at the holding point, and laugh!! Good Luck All:ok:

[bobster1]

people are on pprune to recieve informed and genuine information on schools.

Says mason who slated ADM IR on another thread and yet never had one, not one IR lesson there!:ugh:

[The Lead Sparrow]

Just an update on Aero,
yes they are having problems with tech A/C, name a flight school that isn´t!

The Seminol is out of action for weeks.

The Dutchess is flying, not as bad as some would have you believe, having flown in four schools in America I think the Dutchess is a treat to fly!! Goes were you point it and stays there, I¨m more than happy!

A second Dutchess was ferry flighted over from the States last week, not a rumour, I have seen it parked up at Malaga, new engines, new Avionics etc. The only downside is it is waiting for Spainish reg: This could be a few weeks away as the Spanish CAA is far from Germanic!

A third Dutchess is coming from Italy on Sunday, I will confirm that when I have seen it in the metal on the apron.

It´s an old saying you pay your money and you take your pick. I for one had no choice, could not afford an IR in UK. On the website it does mention it may take longer than shown. It´s aviation, get used to delays or get ulsers!

[The Lead Sparrow]

Spoke to soon, playing The Devils Advocate! Have been sat on the ground in Malaga for a week!

I will try to keep this to facts as emotions are running high. I arrived five weeks ago, met three guys going mad trying to get finished, I thought maybe they where just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Five weeks later, the Seneca is still tech and the Duchess has been down for a week. The other Dutchess is still sat waiting for paperwork two weeks after it arrived.

I am starting to get the feeling those guys weren´t in the wrong place wrong time, its just SOP here!

:ugh:

[bobster1]

Just in case my post a couple of above dont make sense, its because mason has deleted all his posts...for some reason..

Lead Sparrow, boring sitting around doing nothing aint it, just hope the sun is shinning for you, and the san miguel is chilled!

I touched lucky ADM told me 4 weeks approx for the IR, I was on the 1st easyjet back to UK 28 days later IR in hand, even with around 4 tech days sim and aircraft.

[BounceBounceLand]

been at ADM 5 weeks now... was ere for MEP rating and ME/IR. Lost a few days to weather, and total around 2 weeks due to aircraft going tech. Its the same in a lot of flight schools, but paying £7000 for it....... even with delays its worth the saving. Gets a bit depressing doing nothing but saved so much rather than doing it in the UK.

[BounceBounceLand]

Just to try and help anyone else that comes here....

The flight school have appartments, and if they are full the recommend local hotels. I did a google search and found somewhere for 22 Euros a night. Its a shared house with kitchen, shared bathroom. Very homely and in the old town of Malaga. compared to 35-40 euros at the hotels, if you have to stay longer than expected its not as much of a hassle.

Its situated in the old town of malaga, Number 1 bus (1 euro each way) takes you to the flight school offices (where the sim is). The same bus passes the train station from where you can get a train to the airport (1.70 euro return) when you are on the aircraft.

Saved me 500-600 euros compared to the hotel I planned to stay in in the first 4 weeks.

If interested, its www.malagalodge.com (http://www.malagalodge.com)
The rates vary depending on how long you stay

[menikos]

Hello,

there is a nice place close to the school it's a B&B and people there are very nice.

The room are shared mixed room, 5 minutes to walk, the address is 4 calle Jeronimo Bobadilla, Malaga

http://www.vipbackpackers.com/hostels.aspx?HostelID=1108

Hope it helps.

:ok:

[superwing]

hey

anyone going to AD in July? I am thinking of booking my course. Just called them and they have 2 Duchess working now, and the Seneca is ready soon. If anyone is there right now can you please comment on this?

[EIDW RJ85]

@LH2

Now in all fairness, I didnt start jumping up and down like a schoolgirl ... All I ment was that if you didnt make yourself known, they were happy to leave you without any Info. You didnt even get a call as to when you were next flying or an update on the tech issue if you didnt kick up a bit. And I have experiance with flight schools in the U.S and europe and if you dont speak up, you will be told nothing.

To be fair the point was made that we all went there for the weather and cheap training and that is a valid point? As stated in my first post, if the tech problem hadnt been an Issue, the school was 100%. The cost quoted was the cost I paid (a new plesant experiance after being in florida for most of my training), The School itself is a nice setup with very good instructors both in the school and a/c.

My biggest problem fell with the only 2 twins they had going tech and them having no backup plan. Now if its true that they are building the fleet up to 4 twins, I think tech delays will be few and far between and the school will be very good. My problem was down to timing ... Im sure if I had have gone there when there were no tech issues, I would have gone home with my conversion done after 2 weeks!!

Would I go there again if god forbid I have to renew my IR next year?? If they still only had the same 2 twins? No. If they increased the fleet?? Id go back without hesitation.

[Flyingsauc3r]

By previous post I gather they have 3 BE76 (2 currently working) and one senneca. Is this correct? :confused:

[glush]

So here's the latest..... just passed my IR skill test - first time pass too, so very pleased.

I had to do my course in an unusual way because I have a 'proper job' Monday to Friday in the UK. This meant I came down to Malaga for 1 week at the beginning of April to get a solid start in the SIM. Then I came down each weekend and did the SIM on Saturday and Sunday (35 hours), and flew back to UK on Sunday night. (Thanks Easyjet for making it all quite painless!)

I then spent the last 2 weeks of May in Malaga to do all the flying part (15 hours - I already had the ME rating). I wonder how easy it would have been to do that much flying in the UK on IR training!? The admin guys at AD were extremely helpful, and did a great job to accomodate my unusual way of having to complete the course. Their SIM is FNPT2, and instruction is very good. Always plenty of time for pre-brief and post brief. SIM is excellent, and the training is extremely demanding - but that's how it should be. All my lessons were on time - I knew my schedule the evening before, I turned up for the session - no delays, ever.

Flying instruction (I am a UK FI myself) is good - the only issue I had was 2 trips being abandoned due to a/c going tech (one of them was my first go at the skill test unfortunately). Howver, they bend over backwards to try and help - and I was impressed that when things don't go quite as smoothly as they should, they care enough to make it right. They have 2 Duchesses - with a 3rd due to come on line once some regisatration paperwork is sorted. There is also a Seneca, but that has been tech for a few weeks.

Would I reccommend AD based on my personal experience - Yes.

I came here not to save money (anyway I had to do lots of Easyjet flights!), but because the weather is better, the flying is wonderful (I did IFR trips into North Africa, Seville, Jerez, Almeria), and there are real mountains! Which make accuracy and the MSA really really really important! The other important thing is that you have to get used to 'the real world' very quickly! Malaga is an extremely busy airport - so it's a great induction into how ATC can play havoc with your plans. All of the airfields are within 1 hour, all have full instrument facilities, and full ATC... and because of the mountains, most of the flying is done at FL100..... Proper IFR!!

So there you are. Hope it provides a useful insight. If there was one thing I would have changed it would be trying to do the whole thing in a 4 or 5 week stint. But circumstances would not permit that. Even so, considering I started on April 9th, it's really only taken a couple of months - I know guys who take 3, 4, 5 months to do it in the UK with our weather!

Oh, and I paid exactly what it said on the website - not a euro
more. The price they quote on their website includes everything - landing fees, approach fees, examiner fees, course materials, checklists etc etc.....

Cheers
GLUSH

[stefair]

Hi,
I am due to start with AD some time soon and looking for a decent hotel/hostel? The cheaper the better and please within walking distance. Any recommendations (links please!)? Thanks a lot!

[LH2]

Stef,

Their apartment is your best option by far, costwise as well as for comfort. Do they not have availability during your planned stay?

The only other viable option is turning to www.loquo.com (http://www.loquo.com) (the Spanish version of Craigslist) for anyone in Malaga with a flatshare to offer. You will need assistance from a Spanish speaker to get the best deals, but here (http://malaga.loquo.com/pe/housing/rooms-for-rent-shared/room-in-a-shared-flat/445821)'s an example of what's on offer. Here (http://malaga.loquo.com/pe/housing/rooms-for-rent-shared/habitacion-en-piso-nuevo-vialia-renfe/401893)'s another one, conveniently close to AD's offices and to the train station (for your trips to the airport). PM me if interested, I'll be happy to ring them up for you.

If you will be training during the high tourist season (from now until the end of August), avoid hotels, hostels, pensions, and all the rest. Prices are high, places are noisy, quality is low, and of course you will have to eat out which although not expensive, is not as cheap and convenient as having your own kitchen.

Plan 'C', ask in the Spanish section for the name of the main Spanish pilot forums (I think pilotosdeiberia.com is one of them), and post there, perhaps locally-based crew can assist.

HTH. Best of luck with your training.

[rons22]

I have couple of mates who were completely happy with everything there,
wish I did my IR in Spain too.

[Daniel777]

Hey guys,

So basically AM offer ME/IR courses but no CPL and ATPL theory?
I currently have an ICAO PPL, what ratings can I get at AM?

Thanks!

[stefair]

They do offer CPL and ATPL groundschool but only towards a CPL issued by the Spanish CAA.

You will need to have a pass of the skill test for either a JAA PPL or CPL so before you can consider going there you will need to get that done first. No hopes with just the ICAO license.

[Daniel777]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, could someone explain this more precisely please?
So basically if for instance I am aiming for a Spanish frozen ATPL how does that work?I have an ICAO PPL right now.

Do I have to sit the goundschool in Spain and than pass the 14 subjects just as in the UK?And then CPL/IR?

What would the difference be between a Spanish and a UK issued frozen Atpl?

Just curious...

Thanks,

Danny

[stefair]

Interesting debate.

Was training with AD in July and August this year.
School building including sim not at the airport, it's in Malaga City, the district name, beg your pardon, I forgot. Modern, air conditioned, nice and clean school facilities though not too impressive from the outside. Was actually pretty apalling when seeing it first time. Staff overly friendly and very very helpful, and particularly the female staff eeeasy to look at... Sorry, but had to be mentioned. ;)

Sim was ok, with some imagination a copy of the Dutchess, however, the right part of the screen malfunctioning and the computer crashed a few times. Still acceptable though.

AC were top notch, never broke down and got to fly pretty much every day in my IR conversion training. Was done in 10 days, not kidding. The MEP, on the other hand, was a slog and took me 15 days or so. Here's why: did not mention it in my previous postings as was kind of embarassed about it although I think it still is their fault (no, I have no problem in admitting my shortcomings!). Before going to Malaga was told that a MEP may take up to 10 days which I questioned and was told that an examiner was sometimes not available straigt away.

Well, I started my trainig and flew the mandatory hours in two flights with two different FIs. Both said and I quote, "Your ride will be somewhat like that, just show up and do what the examiner will tell you. No additional prep necessary." Ok, cool, I thought. I then had to wait for 5 days to do my ride. On the very day, which was a Sunday so normal ops not in place, was called in the morning by presumably their dispatcher, asking me to bring my maps and telling me that the flight was going to go to Granada. Now, the problem was, I had never been given any maps, except the IR approach charts so I go "which charts? I only have IR approach charts!" And he's like, yeah just bring them. Alright I thought, let's go there and talk to the examiner because this can't be right.

So I wait there and the examiner gets back from another ride and the applicant himself is briefing me on what to expect. So we start flying and the examiner starts asking me in the middle of my departure from a very "calm" international airport why I had not brought a VFR map since it was a VFR flight. Well, I said, trying to fly the friggin plane at the same time - on my checkride! - that since he had lent his map to the student before he would lent it to me to, which he also agreed to. So while arguing with him and actually trying not to since we all know to never argue with an examiner I set - well, sort of - course for Granada. My flying by then, frankly speaking, totally sucked and was behind the AC. So I sort of manage to keep going and eventually we get back. During the debrief then he tells me that he's not going to pass me on the VFR flying part since having a map on board was mandatory. BTW, I agree with that. Also, I do agree I should have done a little bit of flight planning but had never been instructed to do so by my FIs so was not aware of the fact that a cross country VFR exercise was part of the test. And lastly, I do not think it is my job to look up the test standards. Clearly, that is the school's responsibility, especially when quoting a price that is about a EUR1,000 more expensive than Aerofan in Madrid charges.

Anyway, I got a partial and go up with the same examiner a couple days later after doing one sim session practicing VFR flying... and passed the remaining section. Great I thought. Totally avoidable with a little better prep. So I approach AD and am told will have to pay EUR1,000 on top for the reasons stated above. I refuse and am to meet with the director himself who, of course, refuses to take any responsibility. I stay calm and keep trying to make a point and he finally cuts me a deal, questionable, if you can call paying a higher price a deal, and tries to settle for EUR500. Since I had not done my IR yet I thought, well, I cannot piss them off completely and accept. The fact that I had higher accom costs was never looked at although mentioned. Looking back I still think that was totally their fault and a total waste of money, however, I did have my MEP.

On the other hand, as afore mentioned, the IR conversion training went all fine and I had it done in no time. Also, the price quoted was all I had to pay, although I had flown 12 minutes longer, which, technically, they could have charged me for. Now, whether they might have, if I had not to gone through all the troubles in my MEP training, I cannot say. It probably was just complimentary.

Well, their accom, especially the one downtown is pretty pricy (EUR35/night)but the close location made it worth paying for me.

Overall AD was a great school I think since all school's AC break down, be it in the UK, US or Spain. When doing my CPL back in the UK the AC was grounded for a coupe of days too, let alone the bad weather grounding everything for sometimes an entire week. Maybe I just got very lucky.

The fact that one trains at a busy international airport made my training a very valuable experience and at least if things go like in my IR conversion training I can highly recommend them.

From my experience, but who am I to judge others, it is usually those individuals that show some cockiness in their actions and who do not act professionally that schools will not care for. When I was there we had a couple and if it's true what they pulled off in the sim, I would get rid off them right away.

If one is nice and acts professionally, e.g. shows up ahead of time, they willl make every effort to make you happy.

[brittania0580]

Hi
Can anybody help me on this,, CPL Practical training Air test .
From january 2009 i understand that you will be able to take your CPL training and test in spain even though you completed your ATPL exams in the UK due to new legislation. Because i am looking at training with Aerodynamics of Malaga in Spain ,they seem to have very good reviews
Any advice would be welcome thankyou.

[Daniel777]

Hey there,

Can anybody confirm that after taking the ATPL's in the UK you can do your CPL/IR training in Spain?
After that will the licence be issued by the Spanish or the UK CAA?

Thanks,

Daniel

[Peter_CDG]

You can do the ifr training in Spain. This rating will be added to your uk license. It´s not possible to do the cpl part in spain, because the school needs an approval from the UK CAA. So you can do the cpl training and the check ride in the UK or in the states ( there are some JAA schools with an UK CAA approval ).

[waveydavey]

Can anyone advise on a couple of things for me?

-Has anyone trained at AD and split the training? I probably cannot take 4 weeks off work in one go.

-While speaking to a couple of UK FTO's I was advised "don't go to Spain to train, nobody will consider you with a Spanish IR". Is there any truth in this or is it just people trying use scare tactics to get business?

Ta

[Nearly There]

-Has anyone trained at AD and split the training? I probably cannot take 4 weeks off work in one go.Guy I know did this 2 2 week stints as work allowed, AD where very helpful with accomodating this for him.

-While speaking to a couple of UK FTO's I was advised "don't go to Spain to train, nobody will consider you with a Spanish IR". Is there any truth in this or is it just people trying use scare tactics to get business?
3 guys I know of who went to AD, 1 now flying an orange airbus, one flying an Embraer 145, and the other is a civilian military instructor, in fact a photo on Facebook shows him walking back from the flight line with Prince William! Dont trust everything a UK FTO tells you, bottom line they want your hard earned in their bank!

[Kyriakos]

Any additional opinions on that one would be very much appreciated.


Thank you guys. :ok:

[glush]

Waveydavey,

I did my IR at Aerodynamics last April/May and found them to be a really professional outfit.

Due to my weekday job in the UK I had to commute down there for weekends mostly to do the training. I also did 1 full week at the beginning of the course, and a further 2 full weeks at the end (to do the flying). I was able to use my leave entitlement to accomodate that. Aerodynamics could not have been more helpful in working the course around my availability.

Regarding the comments about 'don't do it in Spain'... I can't comment on others experiences, but I have just completed my IR Instructors course at a UK FTO with no problems at all... so Aerodynamics must have got something right. :ok:

Hope that helps.