Fg Off Wales' Wings [Archive]

Bob Viking

7th Apr 2008, 11:00

I wondered how long it would take for someone to squinny about how unfair it all is!
THEY'RE THE FUTURE KINGS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
They (I mean Charles and William here!) can do what the hell they like!
Besides, do you honestly think they'll be using their Wings in an Operational Theatre?!
I'm willing to bet Prince Andrew did rather more than a famil' package before flying off to the South Atlantic!
BV:rolleyes:

blue monday

7th Apr 2008, 11:02

His farther has wings but still managed to crash a BAe 146 a few yrs back, up in Scotland somewhere if remember rightly, allegedly when he realised he was cocking up he immediately said 'you have control' to the captain.

Bob Viking

7th Apr 2008, 11:06

Really?!
I'd never heard that story!
BV:E

dakkg651

7th Apr 2008, 11:09

Gridnorth.

It wasn't only the Tutor. He was trained on the Tucano then the Squirrel.

Did rather well by all accounts.

blue monday

7th Apr 2008, 11:43

it was ZE700 1994, heres a link to it:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271099

I was based at Northolt 6 or 7 years ago so got he full 'unofficial' story.

Chicken Leg

7th Apr 2008, 12:27

Blue Monday

Erm, I think that BV might have been................................tch, forget it! :ugh:

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

7th Apr 2008, 12:33

I wondered how long it would take for someone to squinny about how unfair it all is.

You're not from Pompey/Turktown by any chance? Anyway, I agree totally with you. Whenever this topic crops up, out come the usual suspects like Pavlov and his bloody dogs. At least some are sufficiently well balanced as to have chips on both shoulders, though.

blue monday

7th Apr 2008, 13:25

Doh :ugh: I was a little slow on the uptake there, was rushing so didn't note the sarcasm!

Gainesy

7th Apr 2008, 14:23

Did he also solo on the Tucano and Squirrel? Or just a famil type course?

nunquamparatus

7th Apr 2008, 20:05

Frankly, for what Harry and William have had to put up with in the last 10 years I think they should be entitled to as many badges as they can squeeze onto an arm. Perhaps we could send them on the Royal Marines Sniper Course......not that the sniper badge wouldn't look good on the uniform but it would be thoroughly heartening to see a few paparazzi slotted within 500 metres of Clarence House. Must check the Game Licence and see if it lists 'Gits with Cameras'..............

Looking forward to seeing HRH Prince William at sea in a mighty grey war canoe (if we have any left) - preferably on Trafalgar Night or Tarantino night. Then he can learn all about 'responsible drinking'. :E

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

7th Apr 2008, 20:12

Is Tarantino Night a jolly ashore to the Flicks?

I've always preferred Taranto Night.

:)

nunquamparatus

7th Apr 2008, 20:27

Ah, Taranto night. When the brave (read 'suicidal') pilots from the Fleet Air Arm took off in their trusty buckets of pooh (Swordfish) and laid waste to the Italian Fleet (!!??) at Taranto. Presumably the Italians, like every other matelot in their own home port, were in town, on the lash, trying to square away anything in a skirt - thus making the job of the trusty WAFUs that much easier. A frankly feeble excuse for a knees-up but who needs excuses. Made all the more exciting (at Yeovilton) by wondering which part of the wardroom Schwab would try to blow up - back int he days when you were allowed to do that sort of thing in the mess (ie, have character):ok:

A2QFI

7th Apr 2008, 21:17

"Prince Charles was not blamed because, despite holding the RAF rank of group captain, he was regarded as a passenger who was invited to fly the aircraft. The inquiry can pass judgment on the crew.

More » It was not in dispute, however, that the Prince was at the controls of the BAe 146 when it landed awkwardly and too fast in high winds on the Isle of Islay last June, slewed off the Port Ellen runway and came to a halt with its nose buried in mud. Six crew and five passengers were on board but no one was injured.

The RAF report into the accident, released in the House of Commons yesterday, concluded the jet was flying 32 knots (40mph) too fast when it crossed the runway threshold. Only 509m (557yds) of the 1,245m-long (1,362yd) strip remained when all the aircraft's wheels touched down, causing a tyre to burst and another to deflate.

The captain, Squadron Leader Graham Laurie, was negligent "in the final stages of the flight". Although he still flies with No. 2 Royal Squadron, he may no longer act as an instructing or supervising pilot.

ninja-lewis

7th Apr 2008, 21:27

Frankly, for what Harry and William have had to put up with in the last 10 years I think they should be entitled to as many badges as they can squeeze onto an arm. Perhaps we could send them on the Royal Marines Sniper Course......not that the sniper badge wouldn't look good on the uniform but it would be thoroughly heartening to see a few paparazzi slotted within 500 metres of Clarence House. Must check the Game Licence and see if it lists 'Gits with Cameras'..............

After today's verdict that the paparazzi were a contributory factor in their mother's death, surely there's a case for self defence? :hmm:

robin

7th Apr 2008, 21:44

The captain, Squadron Leader Graham Laurie, was negligent "in the final stages of the flight". Although he still flies with No. 2 Royal Squadron, he may no longer act as an instructing or supervising pilot.

And, for what its worth, HRH has given up on the controls since then....

14greens

8th Apr 2008, 16:29

correct me if i am wrong but did the author of this thread accuse the future boss of being a cross dresser!!!!!?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

8th Apr 2008, 17:57

Yes; but not that way.

:eek:

Warmtoast

8th Apr 2008, 20:09

Fg Off Wales' Wings
So, when he gets his wings this week, I assume that they will be RAF type, but when he then cross dresses to the RN will he wear RN wings on sleeve and subsequently AAC type wings if/when he reverts to the Army? Or does he stick with the RAF wings as presented?

Three weeks after his Grandpa got his wings he was promoted as this press item said at the time;

Duke of Edinburgh’s R.A.F. Commission
On January 15th [1953] the Air Ministry announced that Her Majesty the Queen had been graciously pleased to appoint H.R.H. the Duke of Edinburgh to a commission in the Royal Air Force, in the rank of Marshal of the Royal Air Force, with effect from that date. Simultaneous announcements by the Admiralty and War Office gave news, respectively, of the Duke’s promotion to ranks of Admiral of the Fleet (he is already a commander in the Royal Navy) and of Field Marshal.
The Duke, who recently succeeded the late King as Air Commodore-in-Chief of the Air Training Corps, now becomes the third member of the Royal Family to have held the highest rank in the R.A.F. King George V did not hold the rank as such, but assumed the title of Chief of the Royal Air Force. The Duke of Windsor was appointed a Marshal of the Royal Air Force on his accession in 1936 and has retained that rank since his abdication, and the late King George VI also assumed the rank on his accession. Both the Duke of Windsor and King George VI learned to fly, the former being taught by A. Cdre. Sir Edward Fielden and the latter by Air Chief Marshal Sir Alec Coryton.

Are the MOD planning to have a PR coup like Wills' Grandpa had way back in 1953 when he was snapped flying his Harvard over Windsor Castle?

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/DukeofEdinburghSolo1953.jpg

Wills flying his Grob solo over Windsor Castle would probably make the tabloids - ATC restrictions permitting of course.

2close

8th Apr 2008, 20:21

Wills flying his Grob solo over Windsor Castle would probably make the tabloids - ATC restrictions permitting of course.

SVFR in the London CTR. Not a problem. Get the camera out! :)

Maple 01

8th Apr 2008, 21:08

"I can see my house from here......."

Orson

8th Apr 2008, 22:12

Course......not that the sniper badge wouldn't look good on the uniform but it would be thoroughly heartening to see a few paparazzi slotted within 500 metres of Clarence House. Must check the Game Licence and see if it lists 'Gits with Cameras'..............

Think they're known as vermin - no season on them.

wasaspacecadet

9th Apr 2008, 10:11

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article1018381.ece

SpaceCadet

Spanish Waltzer

9th Apr 2008, 12:15

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article1018381.ece

Wills, 25, went on a two-hour mission co-piloting the bright yellow Sea King chopper – widely regarded by the RAF as the most difficult and dangerous to fly. :confused:

Really???? Please elaborate crab :ok:

Spacer

9th Apr 2008, 12:38

No, they are safe as old houses. Well, the ones without asbestos....

ProfessionalStudent

9th Apr 2008, 15:37

... widely regarded by the RAF as the most difficult and dangerous to fly.

Well, that's what you get with a cockpit full of training risks...

Retires and takes cover...:E

diginagain

9th Apr 2008, 15:46

"I can see my house from here......."

Surely Maple, you mean "One can see one's house from here......"

Orson

9th Apr 2008, 16:40

Surely "One can see one of one's houses from here"?

Romeo Oscar Golf

9th Apr 2008, 18:27

Sorry, couldn't resist it!
Getting this piccy of "my house" did give a very fast track to the Staish's Office (hats on).
It is an untouched F95 print taken on a "bad weather" low level circuit and my wife, bless her, was on the patio thinking " What the ......", (bottom left)
Go on then Fg Off Wales- beat that!.:E

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/roghead/Home1969.jpg

muttywhitedog

9th Apr 2008, 19:28

I'm wondering if anyone is ever going to Move & Track him on JPA. After the Harry announcement I had a quick scan at where William was and according to JPA he'd done all his flying training from some barracks in London!

A2QFI

9th Apr 2008, 19:55

ROG. Definitely Germany, by style of houses, but which base? Gutersloh?

richatom

9th Apr 2008, 20:36

Definitely not Germany, judging by the side of the road on which the cars are parked (unless ROG is being devious and has reversed the image!).

Nevertheless, it is amazing how military housing always looks so grim, wherever it may be.

Maybe the military would have less retention problems if they made their housing less parade-ground and more homely by encouraging some vegetation...

Romeo Oscar Golf

9th Apr 2008, 20:53

40 years on, or so, and I'm still consumed with guilt.;) Let's hope the young Prince never shows such lack of discipline.
No not Gut, and no photographic tricks- I'm not that smart.
Agreed, they do look grim, but compared to most OMQ's of the time they were pretty good to live in.

Unscorable

10th Apr 2008, 06:20

Laarbruch, possibly?

A2QFI

10th Apr 2008, 06:51

Good call Riacatom! However, no quarters like that were ever built in UK and it is either a one way street (not likely) or the photo has been inadvertently been reversed. T be fair the houses shoen are slightly staggered and there is a lot of vegetation around! They were very good to live in; very solid construction and a useable cellar and loft

[email protected]

10th Apr 2008, 08:37

Spanish Waltzer - no one told me it was dangerous before I got into it with him!!!!

The pap were shooting from outside the wire and obviously used their journalistic integrity to research the rest of the story before they went to print.;)

Gainesy

10th Apr 2008, 09:04

Maybe the military would have less retention problems if they made their housing less parade-ground and more homely by encouraging some vegetation

That's the problem,when they will only be there for 2-3 years nobody wants to invest in a few rose bushes, flower beds etc to brighten the place up.

Reminds me of the crestfallen-looking double-glazing salesman going door-to-door in the Honington MQs.:)

brakedwell

10th Apr 2008, 10:25

"I can see my house from here......."

Correction: "I can see the house my subjects pay for!"

Romeo Oscar Golf

10th Apr 2008, 15:48

Spot on - Give the man a coco-nut.

Unscorable (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=234240)
Probationary PPRuNer

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In transit
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Laarbruch, possibly?
(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=234240)

Warmtoast

10th Apr 2008, 16:50

no quarters like that were ever built in UK

Yateley in Hampshire just down from Blackbushe had some very similar married quarters. White painted stucco walls, smallish windows, a high roof line etc. They were built for US Navy personnel when the USN had a presence at Blackbushe.
Later in the 70's and 80's they were occupied by USAF personnel based at Greenham Common. They were sold off to the private housing market around the time Greenham Common closed down.

Roland Pulfrew

11th Apr 2008, 12:11

Just listened to the Radio 2 news reporting on F/O Wales getting his wings and the reporter said:

"In these health and safety conscious days the wings were stuck on with a piece of velcro rather than with a pin"

How I laughed, where do these reporters get this stuff from!!! I seem to remember mine being velcroed on when awarded over 20 years ago. No 'Elf 'n' Safety culture back then!

More here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7340000/newsid_7342500/7342545.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&ms3=22&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2

peterperfect

11th Apr 2008, 12:26

Lovely to see how a thread relating to a future King's flying training can drift into married quarters spotting !! I've just had an idea for new thread.....

Perhaps in reality the right sense of perspective ? Love it, keep it up chaps !

brakedwell

11th Apr 2008, 12:58

How I laughed, where do these reporters get this stuff from!!! I seem to remember mine being velcroed on when awarded over 20 years ago. No 'Elf 'n' Safety culture back then!

Mine were pre-velcro - still got a fifty one year old scar!::eek:

November4

11th Apr 2008, 13:29

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_02/CharlWillsNPIXIJO_468x738.jpg

Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=558832&in_page_id=1770) - Could Stores not find a better fitting No 5 for the young Fg Off?

brakedwell

11th Apr 2008, 14:03

Officers at the flying school devised a bespoke syllabus that meant the future king was able to fly solo in two fixed-wing training aircraft and a helicopter within 13 weeks. The prince was even able to find time to go skiing in Klosters with his father.

cats_five

11th Apr 2008, 14:07

nunquamparatus (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=177671): LOL!

Gainesy

11th Apr 2008, 15:06

Dad looks a tad casual.

Bunker Mentality

11th Apr 2008, 15:11

Relaxed rather than casual. And why not? One day, it'll all be his!

mlc

11th Apr 2008, 15:32

Did he solo on the Tucano?

ACW599

11th Apr 2008, 15:34

>Officers at the flying school devised a bespoke syllabus that meant the future king was able to fly solo in two fixed-wing training aircraft and a helicopter within 13 weeks.<

Purely out of interest, did he solo on the Tucano as well as the Tutor and Squirrel? I thought I'd read somewhere that his Tucano flying was all dual.

D O Guerrero

11th Apr 2008, 15:58

See he's managed to earn the Queen's Jubilee Medal... Unlike thousands of other servicemen who were in at the time of the Jubilee. Still, I suppose that's one of the benefits of working for your Grandmother.

PPRuNeUser0211

11th Apr 2008, 16:08

D O G - He would have been awarded that as a member of the royal household - the medal went to all sorts of folk in public & royal service who had been in said service for more than 5(iirc?) years at the jubilee.

Unscorable

11th Apr 2008, 16:12

Hands in pockets!
I got 3 days jankers for that when I was at Cranditz when wearing civvies! (When he was also there).

brakedwell

11th Apr 2008, 16:15

Don't worry about it pba_target, barrow loads of Granny's Medals will be heading his way.

Thelma Viaduct

11th Apr 2008, 16:25

Charles looks like one of the fellas from Das Boot :ok::}

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_02/CharlWillsNPIXIJO_468x738.jpg

dallas

11th Apr 2008, 17:04

William has followed in the footsteps of Charles and his grandfather the Duke of Edinburgh, who both earned the RAF flying badge.
Nobody got any comments on 'earned' or 'badge'? I am surprised.

SPIT

11th Apr 2008, 17:13

Hi
iam not trying to be a miserable sod but HOW LONG does it take and what does it involve nowerdays to get QUALIFIED FOR FIXED WING A/C AND ROTARY A/C normaly (that is for mere ordinary humans):{:{:confused:

higthepig

11th Apr 2008, 17:24

Just heard that the Royal Marines have decided to give his Uncle Eddie the Green Beret after all.

brakedwell

11th Apr 2008, 17:44

airborne_artist

11th Apr 2008, 17:47

Uncle Eddie the Green Beret after all

Is that to go with his brown wings? :}

buoy15

11th Apr 2008, 17:50

The Pratt on the left looks like a bag of ****e and totally dis-interested
He would look well at a 3rd world presidential election but not as an RAF ACM at an official function
As a retired Senior Officer, I am priviliged never to have met him in my career
I wishfully hope his Mother survives him, and England never sees him as King
God Bless England, Harry and St George

dallas

11th Apr 2008, 17:50

So what is your question?
I've always been led to believe it's more than just a badge, it's an aptitude, a qualification, a culture, a tradition, a life - surprised to hear it's just something pinned on a uniform after 4 months.

GPMG

11th Apr 2008, 17:54

Just heard that the Royal Marines have decided to give his Uncle Eddie the Green Beret after all.

Doubt it Hig, any facts to back that up? :suspect:

higthepig

11th Apr 2008, 18:02

Doubt it Hig, any facts to back that up?

The cleaner told me so it must be true.

GPMG

11th Apr 2008, 19:11

Eddie couldn't be awarded the 'coveted green', I don't remember ever seeing him in a 'naked bar'.

D O Guerrero

11th Apr 2008, 20:47

PBA Target - not that I want to make a big deal about it, but.....
" The Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government), after careful thought, decided that eligibility for the award of Jubilee medals next year should be restricted to members of the uniformed Armed Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces), including reserves and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Fleet_Auxiliary), who have completed a minimum of five years reckonable service at the time of the 50th anniversary of the Queen's succession." From Hansard...

Samuel

12th Apr 2008, 00:04

Apropos Charles flying ability...some years ago, while on a visit to New Zealand, he was taken by Andover to a property in the hill country of the South Island [it might have been the Elworthy's, but I can't recall], and the Captain was given instructions that "under no circumstances" was HRH to be handed control other than straight and level.

His visit was not long after he'd broken an arm or a wrist or something falling off a horse, and when he finally departed Whenuapai, he was gifted a rocking horse complete with seat belts.:ok:

As regards Will's Wings, it's all symbolic really isn't it? He's not a real pilot, never will be, so does it matter, given who he is?

There is a well-known TV personality here in NZ who fancied himself a bit, learned to fly, then bought himself a Stearman which he pranged...twice. After the second incident, he was photographed walking away from the tangled wreck wearing a flying suit complete with RNZAF pilots wings. There were a number of letters to the paper, including one from me and I'm not a pilot, telling him that they had to be earned, and that he would never achieve that standard etc..etc.. He removed them! Mind you, he also quit flying, probably a good move.

x213a

12th Apr 2008, 00:52

Red Sea Rig:

He will learn the meaning one day...once he has a few ctps in his pocket.

Mlaaaar:}

NP20

12th Apr 2008, 01:16

Pontious,

Not sure about Das Boot, but given the angle of his hat, he looks as though he has been influenced by this fellow (who is at least wearing a smile):

http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/jack.jpg (http://www.swldxer.co.uk/JHRJack.mp3)

Also, I'm no expert, but it looks as though Charles' hat has been photoshopped on.

komac2

12th Apr 2008, 02:33

he also quit flying, probably a good move

He Gave up Flying because the wife made him give it up due to the compulsive crash deposition he seemed to have.

brakedwell

12th Apr 2008, 06:24

I feel sorry for the fledgling pilots who worked long and hard to earn their wings and then had their awards ceremony hijacked by William's love life.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

12th Apr 2008, 08:26

Good point: they would normally have the international media coverage all to themselves. In n years time, none of them will take pride that they shared the Parade with the King?

The Burning Bush

12th Apr 2008, 09:06

The Pratt on the left looks like a bag of ****e and totally dis-interested
He would look well at a 3rd world presidential election but not as an RAF ACM at an official function
I wishfully hope his Mother survives him, and England never sees him as King
God Bless England, Harry and St George

What he said, well the sentiment anyway.........although it pains me to say it :{

BurglarsDog

12th Apr 2008, 09:27

Thought you had to complete AFT before Wings were issued?
Or is this a recent change?
Well recent as in the last 30 years or so!
Didnt get any after surviving the JP:{

DogGone:O

dum_my

12th Apr 2008, 09:48

Am I the only one who thinks William is doing his stints in each service at bit too hastily?

He appears to have finished with the Army. I read today that he 'leaves' the RAF in 2 weeks time. Followed by 4 months (?) in the RN. I mean, he's not going to be King anytime soon, so why the rush? Why couldn't he spend, say, 2-3 years in each service. Spending 12 weeks in the RAF training regime, while all well and good, does not expose him to life at an MOB. He should spend a few months at a few flying stations, attached to some different sqns, particpate in exercises, learn and experience the reality of today's RAF (sandy places off-limits, of course).

Donkey497

12th Apr 2008, 09:52

Call me cynical, but the country might be slightly better served if they made the defence secretary go through the same course + basic infinatry and spending at least six weeks on any of the plastic rowing boats that the navy have left before they took the job for real.:E:E

Maybe of course that thought should also be extended to the civil servants, bean counters & other whitehall remoras before they took the reins as well.:E:E:E

Maybe then they'd actually be a bunch of folk making critical decisions who all actually had an idea about the sharp end of the job........

pamac51

12th Apr 2008, 17:15

There was an AAC captain on 5 Regt at Aldergrove - ex RAF and wore his RAF wings.

beamer

12th Apr 2008, 20:56

Ditto a couple of previous posts - I read in the newspapers that Wills has been flying for four months and according to the radio coverage has been awarded his brevet because he had gone solo during that period. Its been a long time since I went through flying training but my logbook shows somewhere in the region of 250 hours of basic/advanced training before getting the badge. Either the young man was flying at an extraordinary pace or the rules have changed somewhat !

Wwyvern

12th Apr 2008, 21:03

[email protected]

13th Apr 2008, 06:21

Well he's welcome back to the SAR world anytime - he is desperate to get some operational time but the system doesn't seem to want to let him.

Warmtoast

13th Apr 2008, 13:05

Having Googled ad-infinitum I've not yet been able to find a photo of Wills flying solo in the accepted dictionary definition of solo, in relation to flying i.e.
"an unaccompanied flight by a pilot in an aircraft" and
"perform a solo, esp. a solo flight".

Despite the claims in the press ad elsewhere, did he actually fly solo and if so where are the photos to prove it?

nice castle

13th Apr 2008, 13:07

Am I the only one who thinks William is doing his stints in each service at bit too hastily?
Evidently, yes.

Charming sentiment, but it has been decided that his time as an Heir to the Throne is better spent in public service, rather than spending his time as you suggested.

Also, you assume he actually has a choice in the matter.

The way I see it, he is sharp and has the capacity to ascertain much more than most his age would given a similar timeframe in which to be part of HM Armed Forces. He has done well so far, deserves his RAF wings, and best of luck to him in the RN.

He is a credit to the nation, and those that take a different view have either not met or worked with him.:ok:

richatom

13th Apr 2008, 13:08

He appears to have finished with the Army. I read today that he 'leaves' the RAF in 2 weeks time. Followed by 4 months (?) in the RN. I mean, he's not going to be King anytime soon, so why the rush? Why couldn't he spend, say, 2-3 years in each service.

From what I've read he seems to genuinely enjoy his military time, takes it very seriously, and maybe he would quite like to spend more time with each service. It would be difficult to justify, however, the expense of training him up to (say) fast jet standard when there is no prospect of him actually going front line. I have to say though that if I was in his shoes I would be keen as mustard to spend a good 2-3 years with each service.

And has it been announced that his army stint is over? I assumed that he would go back to the army after finishing his blue stints. I would have thought that he would need to get his para-wings at some point in his career, so presumably he will go back to the army for another stint?

I read also that the SAS are keen to make him their honorary colonel-in-cheif at some point, having impressed them with his keenness on his numerous visits to Hereford.

Whatever route he takes he is a real credit to the nation - good on him.

Gainesy

13th Apr 2008, 15:22

Despite the claims in the press ad elsewhere, did he actually fly solo and if so where are the photos to prove it?

I'm sure there was one pic of him solo in the Grob?:confused:

Anyway, who'd want to fly a close formo pics sortie with someone with just a few hours? It can get hairy enough with experienced pilots.:uhoh:

Jackonicko

13th Apr 2008, 16:12

It's great that he did the flying he did. It's great that he did go and look at the RAF and get an insight into how others are trained.

But if he didn't earn wings, then his being awarded them surely devalues the badge.

And don't you have to complete EFTS and BFTS to get wings, at the moment (there was a time, IIRC, when you had to finish AFTS at Valley, wasn't there?) or get to the equivalent stage at Shawbury (Griffin?)? Wings are hard-earned and that's why they're accorded the respect they are. They imply that the wearer has qualified and is competent, and there is an inference that they have some specific competences in formation and instrument flying, etc.

And isn't there an alternative? Could he not have been awarded the PFB? What are the qualifications for that, now?

So how many hours, dual and solo, did he fly in the respective types? Tutor, Tucano, Squirrel?

And what's next? Perhaps a single stroll across Dartmoor and he can have a green beret and commando dagger? Or a day's classroom teaching and a tower jump and he can put up para wings? And wouldn't a DFC and an AFC look nice under those wings. Why not blur the qualifications for those, as well?

EnigmAviation

14th Apr 2008, 07:54

Agreed that it was good that he got some experience of the RAF, but for the sake of all those who have worked very hard to graduate fully, would not have been better to have the RAF/HMG PR machine spins doctors say that "PW has been gaining some flying experience with the RAF and has been awarded an honorary flying badge/wings". Thus honour maintained all round.

That then separates him from those who have completed the full course and doesn't leave joe public with the idea that you can do it in a few weeks - after all Mr Darling and Mr Part time Browne may get the idea that we're wasting taxpayers money taking as long as w are if PW can do three types and gain wings in weeks !

Tigs2

14th Apr 2008, 08:22

Everyone calm down. It is a symbolic gesture, a bit like an honorary degree from a university. It will look good on his uniform when he is head of state. He will not be LCR or CR or be operating aircraft in op roles. Good on him i say. He wants to do more, but despite it being almost his train set, the unseen powers in the civil service say exactly what he can and cannot do. He has no choice in the matter. He could either accept the limited training offered to him, or not participate at all. We do not have an absolute monarchy and he is not permitted to decide very much at all.

youngskywalker

14th Apr 2008, 08:48

Thread creep here so I apologise but I noticed a picture of our wartime leader, Churchill, in RAF blues and wearing wings. When did he do flying training in the RAF? I'm not being sarcastic, i'm genuinely curious.

debsh

14th Apr 2008, 09:03

Churchill's wings were honorary.

Herings's Customs and Traditions of the Royal Air Force states:
'A unique and singular departure from the strict tradition regulating the award of the Royal Air Force flying badge was made in the case of Sir Winston Churchill, Honorary Air Commodore of No 605 (County of Surrey) Squadron of the Royal auxiliary Air Force. Because of his great services to the nation during the Second World War, his unflagging support of, and interest in, the activities of the flying Service, and perhaps because he was the first Prime Minister to hold Honorary Air rank in an active squadron, the air Council decided to make an honorary award of the flying badge to him'

Hering also notes that George V exercised his royal prerogative as Commander-in-Chief of all the Armed Forces to wear the badge although there is no record of him ever flying even as a passenger.

And who was going to argue with him?

XV277

14th Apr 2008, 09:21

After I left the RAF I joined the TAVR and was told to wear the flying badge which I had been awarded.

Became the only Highland officer with kilt and RAF wings.

Didn't do the parachute course, though.

I remember reading somewhere about an ex-USN Pilot who joined the national Guard as an enlisted man, and became probably the only Army NCO to serve in Iraq with wearing USN wings.

Warmtoast

14th Apr 2008, 11:54

debsh

'A unique and singular departure from the strict tradition regulating the award of the Royal Air Force flying badge was made in the case of Sir Winston Churchill, Honorary Air Commodore of No 605 (County of Surrey) Squadron of the Royal auxiliary Air Force

Unless Surrey has been moved north to Brummieland your source has got his squadrons mixed up. 605 was the County of Warwick squadron, finally disbanded in 1957, whereas 'Winnie's" squadron was 615. It too disbanded in 1957.

Three Kings with wings.
Edward VIII and George VI did a flying course (at Northolt ISTR), George V didn't.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/ThreeKingsandWings.jpg

debsh

14th Apr 2008, 14:16

'Unless Surrey has been moved north to Brummieland your source has got his squadrons mixed up. 605 was the County of Warwick squadron, finally disbanded in 1957, whereas 'Winnie's" squadron was 615. It too disbanded in 1957.'

Or possibly a proofing error in the original. It happens in the best-run organizations. So they tell me.

brakedwell

14th Apr 2008, 14:20

Why not give everybody a set of WINGS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RAF-PADDED-PI-LOT-WINGS-1952-TO-PRESENT-DAY-NEW-3_W0QQitemZ320238365700QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42374QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). They only cost £3 on eBay.

Vatican69

14th Apr 2008, 14:32

So will HRH now go on to fly a front line type with the Navy being as how he has yet to complete any sort of conversion course?

Any one like to hazard a guess as to what he might convert on to?

Surely he will get his Navy wings too, so he has to fly something dark blue.

VAFFPAX

14th Apr 2008, 14:56

Vatican, not AFAIK. Apparently the MoD was quite clearly informed that front-line stuff is not possible for the elder Wales (being second in line), and that the charity/representative stuff will take precedence. Hence an abridged course at the RAF. Or at least that's what the Beeb claims. Someone from the RAF was quoted as saying that if it was too short, it would be clear that it was utterly useless, and if it was the full thing without any possibility of him actually using it, it would be a waste of taxpayers' money. Fair dues in that case... they've tried to find a middle way that's allowed him to learn much (and he's a bright lad) in a condensed course.

The younger Wales has found his niche in the TA, he loves doing what he does (being a tank commander), and judging by the interviews, he would probably happily do this to the end of his days, that he knows what his duty is, and that being treated as one of the lads (without all the HRH title drivel) brings a lot of previously not-experienced normality to his life.

Of course, being one of the world's famous kids makes long term deployment just a little more difficult (thanks to the endless tabloid coverage).

S.

Safety_Helmut

14th Apr 2008, 15:09

Surely he will get his Navy wings too, so he has to fly something dark blue.

Surely it would be 'brown wings' one gains in the Navy! :E

Vatican69

14th Apr 2008, 15:30

I think they are just an (un)welcome bonus. Anyway he won't be in long enough for it to get to his turn in the barrel.

Could be a slightly carreer limiting move too, if one was that way inclined!!

Can just imagine that in someones OJAR:eek:

Gainesy

14th Apr 2008, 15:40

The younger Wales has found his niche in the TA,

He's full time Regular Army, the rest is correct though.

VAFFPAX

14th Apr 2008, 15:44

My bad (I meant the regular Army). R and T next to each other on the keyboard. :sad:

S.

Maxibon

14th Apr 2008, 16:12

But then that would read RA and he's in the HCR or RHG/D to be precise:ok:

VAFFPAX

14th Apr 2008, 16:16

I know, I know... but you know us civvies... ;)

S.

athonite

14th Apr 2008, 19:58

Can anyone actually confirm that he even went solo in the Grob115, let alone the Tucano, you would have thought the press would have issued photos after the event?

fabs

14th Apr 2008, 20:13

Can't speak for the Tutor (I think there were pictures at the time) but he did go solo in the Tucano, honest.

Tigs2

15th Apr 2008, 06:18

Vatican69

So will HRH now go on to fly a front line type with the Navy being as how he has yet to complete any sort of conversion course?

The term 'front line type' is misleading. He may fly an aircraft type that does operate 'front line' but he is unlikely to operate the aircraft as is done on the 'front line'

Any one like to hazard a guess as to what he might convert on to?

He Wont. He will apparently get some time on Sea Kings

Surely he will get his Navy wings too, so he has to fly something dark blue.

Why?? Wings are wings. There are countless pilots who do exchange tours with the other services, they do not do a 'wings' course with each service.

Leave the fella alone, as I said earlier, it is more symbolic than anything else, I am sure he would love to do more but he will never be allowed. He is just being given a 'quick looksee'.

Training Risky

15th Apr 2008, 12:06

Has anyone seen today's cr@p in the Sun about how Wills took a wokka down to the Isle of Wight, got pi$$ed, and the handling pilot took it back to Odiham.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article1041540.ece

Not long before someone jumps on it as (cue harumphing liberal soap-dodging voice) "a complete waste of taxpayers money....drunk heir to the throne...frivolous use of RAF wokka...etc".

It was billed as part of the (ahem) bespoke trg package for HRH. Fine, helilanes and over-water transits are flown all the time. But poor show to let it get out in the open!:}

airborne_artist

15th Apr 2008, 12:45

The party they went to seems to have been fun - link, (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/royals/article1041537.ece) though I'm not sure eight CDs hanging from a lass's tweaky bits is a proud boast ;)

Vatican69

15th Apr 2008, 14:04

Tigs,

I wasn't getting at the guy, I think the more he gets round the bazzars the better and if he wants or is given a set of Navy wings it's no skin off my nose. You're right I should have qualified my comment, I don't expect he will fly on the front line, but was wondering if anyone had heard of plans for him to fly with the Navy in order to facilitate the issue of Naval wings, to go on his Dark Blue uniform when he eventually becomes an admiral of some sort.

Any idea which brand of Sea King?

GPMG

15th Apr 2008, 14:17

Eight? Try a wet bergan.

athonite

15th Apr 2008, 19:29

This all a bit dubious, you would think the press would have had access to first solo flights in both the Grob115 and Tucano, maybe the MOD need to let us see the logbook! And to be honest would you let someone loise on the Tucano inside twelve weeks. I think not.

D O Guerrero

15th Apr 2008, 20:43

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/15/nwilliam215.xml How on earth do the RAF defend this? I mean we all know they've got clever lawyers, but this is ridiculous. Stop wasting my money....

Roland Pulfrew

15th Apr 2008, 20:44

athonite

HRH went solo in the Grob, it was all over the news the day he did it. Why don't you try doing a search on a few news sites!?!? It was definitely on the BBC TV news.

As for the Tucano, you have been told he went solo why do you persist in questioning it?:=

goudie

15th Apr 2008, 20:50

How on earth do the RAF defend this?

Yes it is rather scandalous, must be the first time a RAF Officer has used an aircraft for a w/e jolly.

D O Guerrero

15th Apr 2008, 20:58

Goudie,
That, as I am sure you know, is not the point.
They know this stuff gets out and makes everybody look foolish so why authorise it?
I mean... landing a Chinook in Central London to pick up Dumber to then transport his genitals to the IOW? Don't these people think?
D O G

old-timer

15th Apr 2008, 21:17

Here's my tuppence worth (I guess thats not a valid word these days ?)

For the future head of the armed forces to have real air time experience & gain his wings too seems a very good idea in my humble opinion, it gives him insight into RAF op's too as far as possible, ok, not front line but it's certainly better than nothing at all.

I get the distinct impression that he really is up to the job too.

Harrys doing fine too, let's leave the lads alone, they're both doing fine in my book.

Ref' the alleged Wokka sortie over the water etc, seems reasonable to me & if it co-incided with a party at the end, well, why the hell not !?, this lad is serving his country all of his life so let's give him a break please.

It's a shame the rag press have got hold of it though, they haven't a clue about these things & are just gagging to have a dig at whoever they can get on the front page to sell their rags.

Per Ardua Ad Astra

Let's rise above the gutter press into the deep blue yonder :ok:

VAFFPAX

15th Apr 2008, 21:22

I have to agree with with old-timer here... the sortie was pre-approved, so where's the fuss? I'm a tax payer too and I have absolutely NO problems with that.

S.

goudie

15th Apr 2008, 21:34

They know this stuff gets out and makes everybody look foolish so why authorise it?

So should the Authorising Officer consider the sensitive nature of SUN readers? (which judging by your turn of phrase you appear to be one) I hope not. Anyway who exactly is looking foolish and in whose eyes?

D O Guerrero

15th Apr 2008, 21:41

Old-timer,
He's the head of the CofE too. Somehow I doubt he'll be undertaking a part-time theology degree. Or doing work experience in Tesco, which is where many more of his future subjects slave on minimum wage than serve in the RAF. But hey, when you can learn to fly in your own personal flying club - who could say no?
That wasn't really my original point though. When you're dealing with public money, it should be seen to be spent wisely. Granted that seldom happens, but why make a rod for your own back?
D O G

PS Goudie, any officer in the armed forces is expected to think about the impact of his or her decisions, so yes they should bloody consider it unless they're irretrievably stupid. And if you ask the majority of taxpayers (who don't automatically think that everything the forces do is terrific) they are unlikely to think this kind of thing a good use of their money.
Rant over. DOG out.

Flipper_T_Rox

15th Apr 2008, 21:53

D O G,

I'm a tax payer, and do you know what I think ?

I think that you're an oxygen thief. Why don't you improve things in our country a little bit by emigrating ?

Flip

D O Guerrero

15th Apr 2008, 21:57

Nice to see that informed debate is alive and well on PPRUNE.
Is it possible that someone who is now a civvy, perhaps was once in the forces? I wonder.... See ya.

Tigs2

16th Apr 2008, 02:35

DOG

Or doing work experience in Tesco, which is where many more of his future subjects slave on minimum wage than serve in the RAF.

PW actually spent a year working with poor, underprivileged kids.

If you were in the forces then your remarks are surprising. There is nothing wrong with carrying out bona fide training and if that results in a land away, returning 24/48 hours later, then so what. It is also common as training hours are so tight that a different crew will operate the aircraft on it's return journey.

The Navy do it, and the Army do it.

brakedwell

16th Apr 2008, 06:53

Used to borrow Ansons for weekend "Navigation" exercises to Jersey in good old days. Perks of the job and all that. BTW how to W & H get home after the piss up?

D O Guerrero

16th Apr 2008, 07:01

Grrrr... Why do I feel the overwhelming temptation to take part in this?...
Anyway. My main point isn't that it is normal practice in the services. I am well aware of that. Rather that I would like to think that someone might consider the ramifications of such a daft course of action and how it will look in the public eye.
I find it rather surprising that some people in the armed forces really think that they work directly for the Monarch, her heirs and successors etc etc. Yes we all like to think that... but surely everyone realises by now that they work for the Govt??
That's it. I'm not looking again.

Roland Pulfrew

16th Apr 2008, 09:37

DOG

I accept your point, but what else could the military do? Do you think that the The Scum would have run a story with the headline "PW to carry out routine Chinook training sortie"? We cannot issue a press release every time W or H do some routine training. The Scum and others will want their sensational headline. I happen to believe that most readers will accept the realisitic answer of the MOD on this one. It was a routine training sortie that also happened to be useful.

If it is routine training that would have been done anyway, just that this happened to also involve a slight benefit for some of the occupants, we, the MOD and the three services, should not need to justify that to the tabloid press et al. It's a bit like 'serf's' complaint about The Firebirds doing a 9-ship formation trip. You can please some of the people, some of the time.....

doubledolphins

16th Apr 2008, 09:58

BR 81, Naval Uniform Regs state that Naval wings must be worn on Naval uniform. Regardless of the service in which the holder qualified. (Of course the Navy may not regard him as qualified.;).)
PMOK wears naval wings on his Rear Admiral RNR's uniform and he was a pongo. I do have a question though. The DofE's wings, when worn on a Garter Sash do look rather golden. Are they old RAF from the days of gold lace on best uniforms or RN wings?

x213a

16th Apr 2008, 10:15

Why should uniform regs even come into this? Its down to the qualification afterall. Surely resorting to uniform regulatory requirements is skimming on blatant pedantry?

[email protected]

16th Apr 2008, 10:46

DOG - may I suggest that you might be better pursuing Gordon Brown and the rest of the govt who have allegedly squandered £1 Trillion in their time in office! That is an outrageous waste of public money and hardly comparable to a trip in a Chinook from which William will have got some proper training value - even if it was en route to a pissup.

doubledolphins

16th Apr 2008, 12:30

Er sorry, uniform regs come into it because it is a uniform matter. I was only answering the original post. Next question. :ugh:

VAFFPAX

16th Apr 2008, 14:12

crab - seconded. The horrors of PFI and the raping and pillaging of the public service through consultancies in bed with the incumbent government are endless. There's a great book out by a man called David Craig who chronicled these together with Private Eye. I was utterly gobsmacked.

S.

Evalu8ter

16th Apr 2008, 14:26

"My main point isn't that it is normal practice in the services. I am well aware of that"

DoG, perhaps you'd like to share your vast knowledge of Service life and Chinook ops with the rest of us?

HRH was allocated a number of training hours on the Chinook; it is about the most relevant Operational type at the moment as far as he and his army colleagues are concerned, so of course he wanted to fly one. Now, to fly a wokka through the lanes is perfectly normal for training, as are city centre HLSs (At least they did Woolwich barracks not Armoury House!). To complete a trip with low level and a landing at a different airfield is also routine, as is to carry a spare crew "dead-heading" to reposition the aircraft in these days of high Op tempo.

Bottom line - The aircraft is paid for, the hours are paid for, the crew is paid for. Get over it.

Old Ned

16th Apr 2008, 15:38

bouy15 Post 68:

"The Pratt on the left looks like a bag of ****e and totally dis-interested
He would look well at a 3rd world presidential election but not as an RAF ACM at an official function
As a retired Senior Officer, I am priviliged never to have met him in my career
I wishfully hope his Mother survives him, and England never sees him as King
God Bless England, Harry and St George"

What a most acid and unpleasant post, if indeed from "a retired senior officer". I am also a retired senior officer and recall, in the dim distant past, swearing an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty, her heirs and successors. I can only assume it was meant to be a wind-up, so will now ignore it and bouy 15.

ON

Tigs2

16th Apr 2008, 18:09

Old Ned
Agreed. I had, had the fortune not to read that post.

bouy15 I am sure even if you were attending the Swedish Ladies naked netball competition, if the press were taking in order of 4000 photos of you within a 15 minute period, several of those photos would portray a disinterested look! Besides that HRH has been up since gawd o'clock doing all the bit as a reviewing officer and then a Dining in night to boot. I have had the pleasure of meeting him, he was jolly nice. Quite dreadful words from an ex 'senior officer', I am glad you are no longer around to spread you vitriol to the younger chaps.

old-timer

16th Apr 2008, 20:47

Brakedwell, where were you on Ansons, I know a guy who was on them at Fairoaks, :ok:

Just another tuppence worth, it seems this thread is getting off track in some ways ? - anyway, for my bit I have to say that anyone who dons a uniform for the service of our country deserves utmost respect & honour, both Royal & otherwise, it's great that the HRH chaps are having a go & I for one believe they are good lads doing a difficult job under the intense media pressure.

thats all folks !

Old Ned

17th Apr 2008, 08:38

Tigs2

VMT for support. I too have met HRH PoW and he was interesting and charming.

ON

fuel2noise

21st Apr 2008, 21:07

There seems to be a lot of confusion over honorary rank and flying badges. For my money I think the Prince should have done enough time in the RAF to be awarded a proper flying badge. Don't forget that POW and DOY both did time flying 'front line' types following proper training courses. Is the UK so hard up that we can't afford the same for Wills? Shoddy in my view and de-values the badge IF 'spun' as "Wills gets his wings following RAF course", etc, etc. If they are honorary wings then let's have the honesty to say so.

Rhyspiper

14th May 2008, 19:26

Blimey look at all the bling that old Charlie Boy is sporting!!!

Either he's been a very busy beaver (does calling the future King a "busy beaver" constitute treason? hope not:\) or Elizabeth Duke has been cleaned out!!!

mstjbrown

27th May 2008, 13:35

Just a note about an old controversy:-

Could HRH qualify as a WSO or RN Observer in the time it took to be awarded his pilots wings?

airborne_artist

27th May 2008, 14:53

mstjbrown- http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server?show=nav.6056&tab=2 quotes RW pilot training takes 23 months post-BRNC, and Obs 18 months. FW = 33 months. Not including holds, of course.

Wings are awarded at 12 months for RW (P) and seven for O, and I think 15 for FW (P), I believe.

cliffnemo

2nd Jun 2008, 16:22

HI,

Is any one interested in how long it took me to win my wings during the 39/45 war?
Cliff.

spheroid

2nd Jun 2008, 17:35

Yeah.... I am. Spin the dit then Cliff.

Airborne Aircrew

2nd Jun 2008, 18:37

any officer in the armed forces is expected to think about the impact of his or her decisions, so yes they should bloody consider it unless they're irretrievably stupid

Too easy really, isn't it? :}

exscribbler

2nd Jun 2008, 21:39

Me too. Come on, Cliff; all the gen, please. :ok:

CirrusF

3rd Jun 2008, 08:04

As he gets to go on a submarine during his time in the RN, will he also get a set of dolphins?

ZH875

3rd Jun 2008, 08:14

Which epaulette will he wear the 'Golden Rivet' badge on?

cliffnemo

4th Jun 2008, 10:30

Herewith garbled version of my efforts to obtain my wings during the 39/45 war.

numerous visits to recruiting office with hundreds of other hopeful future spitfire pilots. Finally accepted for consideration.(Didn't finish up on Spits)

Three days at R.A.F Padgate for exams including maths, geometry. etc. Tests for colour blindness . Tunnel vision, night vision ,physical fitness etc.etc.

A few weeks later accepted as pilot U/T to be informed tbat as i was in a reserved occupation the R.A.F would endevour to obtain my release from the ministry of labour. In the meanwhile to join the A.T.C to learn signals. basic navigation.
Six months later received letter I was now in the R.A.F VR on deferred service as an A.C 2 and given a silver V.R lapel badge.
Three months later instructed to report to Lords cricket ground where I remained in a "luxury flat" for a month .classes in maths, basic navigation . aircraft recognition, drill, P.T. swimming and life saving plus ?

Six months at Torquay I.T.W previous subjects plus morse- radio and aldis- ,navigation, dinghy practice in the harbour, five mile cross country runs. clay pidgeon and deflection shooting, armanents (strip our machine guns in the dark and name all parts) engines, aerodynamics. hydraulics. Classes held in any vacant premises, miles apart, uphill and downhill at 140 paces to the minute, and arms up to shoulder level Passed out L.A.C

One month at Marshalls flying school,had to solo on tiger moth in under ten hours to qualify for further pilot training. Passed and posted to R.A.F Heaton Park A.C.RC for one month ,with usual training subjects

PHEW. wonder if any one is interested, it's hard going.
This is my first attempt at this sort of thing and I may be flogging a dead horse so will submit this to see what happens. If there is interest, I will try to describe my career via Nova Scotia, Oklahoma. Gulf of Mexico and finally to 150 Sqdn Hemswell. I might even tell the story of being retained on a court of enquiry pending court martial for low flying over a ladies college near Harrogate.
CLIFF.
NILS BASTARDO CARBORUNDUM

Gainesy

4th Jun 2008, 10:45

Plenty on here will be very interested Cliff.:ok:

Dan D'air

4th Jun 2008, 10:50

Chapter 2 asap please:D

RFCC

4th Jun 2008, 10:50

Keep it coming Cliff.

7x7

4th Jun 2008, 12:21

Yes please Cliff, with ALL the details you can recall.

Blacksheep

4th Jun 2008, 12:23

Read "First Light" by Geoff Wellum. Only 18 and a bit and still at gunnery school when he was taken off the course and sent to join 92 Squadron at Northolt to fly Spitfires. His 'Wings' were real enough - sphincter gripping Battle of Britain combat within 18 months of captaining the school first 11 cricket team.

exscribbler

4th Jun 2008, 14:20

Where are you, Cliff?

Doppler High

4th Jun 2008, 14:53

Cliff - please regail us with more! Marvellous to have a very senior PPRuNer tell us juniors how it was.

sled dog

4th Jun 2008, 15:32

Keep going Cliff. Fascinating stuff :ok:

7x7

4th Jun 2008, 16:23

Cliff, can I suggest you re-post your original post as a new thread with an appropriate title? Maybe 'GAINING AN RAF PILOT'S BREVET IN 194X'?
I think a lot of people here will be interested to read your recollections. I know I will.

ricardian

5th Jun 2008, 10:10

:ok:
Please tell us more, Cliff.

cliffnemo

5th Jun 2008, 10:52

Many thanks for encouraging replies.

To exscibbler I am now living in Liverpool

To 7X7 I will certainly try and start a new post, but it will take a little effort as I saved number 1 somewhere on my computer, and am still a little "flak happy". My grandson will find it. Incidentally I took him inside the Halifax at the Yorkshire air museum, when he was surprised there were no carpets and nice seats. Any one interested in wartime aircraft should visit the Halifax bomber Elvington (google it). The Halifax rebuilding was supervised by my old school friend, ex R.A.F apprentice(1938), ex Rhodesian trained pilot etc. Saw him last week in Yorkshire.
Now going to find out how to start a new thread
Regards Cliff.
There are old pilots, and bold pilots , but no old bold pilots

brakedwell

5th Jun 2008, 12:58

There are old pilots, and bold pilots , but no old bold pilots

I know one, but then there is always an exception to the rule. ;)

Waiting for your next chapter with bated breath.

airborne_artist

5th Jun 2008, 13:51

Cliff - I come up to Liverpool a few times a year - I'd be happy to help you get this down/typed up if that would help you.

Does the name William Hallett mean anything to you? Same vintage as you and also trained outside the UK, though I think he went the fighter route. I asked him (on the Mall on the 60th anniversary of D-Day) where he had been 60 years before.

"In a Spitfire above the beaches of Normandy" It makes the hairs stick up just writing it. Imagine the view, the excitement, the emotions... :ok:

cliffnemo

5th Jun 2008, 14:08