Best method of hour building to get min hrs on PPL before ground school?

[Merritt]

I currently have a PPL +night with approx 68 hours. If I decide to take up a modular course I obviously need the min 150hrs before starting the CPL.

I could go to the US and do the hour building more cheaply than in the Uk but it concerns me that flying around uncontrolled US airspace will be pointless.

I realise that structured hour building is important, so is the US option going to be looked upon as a negative in the long run? If not - there seems to be many varied threads on the best US location to hour build... the OBAs and OFTs of this world don't score too highly. Are there any US providers that get good recommendations & offer structured hour building courses?


Thanks

Steve

[maxdrypower]

Join a no equity group and fly spanking aircraft for very little or by an evans vp1 or similar and fly it till it cant fly no more . Unfortunately whichever way you do it its gonna cost . I personally did it over here . The flight to the US was worth about 15 hours to me

[coodem]

You don't need to have the hours before you start the groundschool, just an ICAO PPL.

As to america being uncontrolled, Say that after you have flown into Daytona, Orlando Int, Orlando Exec. The airspace is a lot more intense. Although a lot of RT is a bit relaxed

I think it is good idea to experience both. Don't use big named JAA US schools, you are just hour building, go to a friendly local school. It will be cheaper, more flexible, better planes

[preduk]

I agree with Max...

If you were to get a share in an aircraft (Some go for as low as £600, which can be sold at a later date when your finished) it may cut your costs down to about £70-80 an hour. If you done that at your local airfield then you could gain a good amount of hours while you do your ATPL Theory.

The US is good because of the weather, but you also need to consider the Accommodation, Flights, VISA, Medicals (if required) costs. You need to remember that in areas such as Florida, the flying conditions are almost perfect therefore you wont experience what flying in bad weather, flying over high terrain and other factors which are hugely important in the UK.

[coodem]

You don't even need to pay for a share of an aircraft in the UK. I am a member of a non equity group. All I pay is £50 a month, £65 per flying hour on a PA28-160 and £60 for a Diamond DV-20 Katana

I don't have to pay for anything else, there are only 20 people in the group, thats between the 2 planes. It might sound like a lot, but I never have any problems with availability. We often have group outings, which is great, as you gain a lot of experience from others and get to go places you would not normally get to go

Flying in the UK is important, if you plan to work here, but I think getting to fly in other countries is also a good idea. For me it's not cheaper to fly in America, ends up costing the same after the flights and accommodation has been paid. But you get a holiday out of it, and get to fly in a different environment.

Fly in as many places as you can, try all sorts of aircraft. Try and enjoy your hour building. Don't waste the experience, it's a once in a lifetime experience.

[flightlevel1985]

I bought a share in a C172 to complete my hours. It brought the cost down to less than 60 pounds an hour wet, whilst giving me lots of experience with the variable conditions expected in the UK. Well worth a thought I would suggest.

The thing that really put me off going stateside, was the fact that if I would be going over there for only a few months of the year or so it would take me to complete my ATPL ground studies. This made me think, how would I stay current enough to feel competent. Would I spend more money in the UK aswell to achieve this?

At least with a share, you can fly daily, weekly or monthly, whilst picking the weather you desire and staying nice and current. As an after thought, I found that it was very rewarding and often nice to take the odd day off to go flying whilst facing the tedious task of ground school ...

[Merritt]

Guys - thank you for the replies... all valuable info.

You don't even need to pay for a share of an aircraft in the UK. I am a member of a non equity group. All I pay is £50 a month, £65 per flying hour on a PA28-160 and £60 for a Diamond DV-20 Katana


That sounds pretty reasonable to me! Are those wet hourly rates?

Cheers

Steve

[A and C]

As usual a mixed bunch of replys all with claims of cheap flying and all in the £50-60 bracket however these mostly downplay the additional costs of monthly subscriptions, ownnership costs, airline tickets & hotels etc and I doubt if anyone has made an allowance for landing and parking fees.

The time recording of some of these aircraft is likely to be on the "Hobbs" so the clock starts ticking from the moment that you turn on the master switch and some of them will charge you home base landing fees so a little research is needed to get to the "real" cost of these aircraft.

I can show you how to hours build for around £73 per hour in the logbook the cost can be reduced by around £9/hour for flights to europe and all this from an airfield on your doorstep!

Check your PM's for more.

[Merritt]

Hi Keith - Thank you, you have email....

Nichibei Aviation - thank you also for your PM. I will have a good look at the website.


Steve

[maxdrypower]

I pay 110 per month and the aircraft is 65 per hour wet. Landing fees are dependant on where you land , not many groups will give you free landing fees no matter where you are based . No sensationalist claims no extras no hiddens thats it thats what I pay.
If you think about it Ive done 100 hrs hour building 110 per month and 65 per hour in a brand new 172 and two exceptional PA28's. Correlate that too the price of a beaten up Pa38 from the local club at 120 per hour and work out the difference .
Im crap at maths but its obvious its one hell of a difference

[Merritt]

Is this part of a 'no equity' share scheme or a company operating a lease system?

I originally thought that cost wise the US would be considerably cheaper but im beginning to think it would be a close call if you land the right deal in the uk....

[maxdrypower]

I am part of a no equity share group. But this is based at Barton and Blackpool . I think you may be a bit far . Someone on here did mention being amember of one down south but i dont know any details .
The advantage of the one here is you can also do your CPL/IR as part of the group in a Twinstar or Aztec which considerably reduces the cost.
Have a good look at all your options and decide what works best for you

[coodem]

The group I am with is in Elstree, and we have unlimited free home landings.

[mattia_70]

Can anyone please explain the meaning of "no equity group" as I am not familiar with this term?

Thanks

[coodem]

You don't pay for the share, but at the same time you don't own a share, Neither do you have to worry about any expenses, If things don't work out you leave, and have nothing to worry about. Some groups do require a notice period, maybe 3 months.

Its a win win situation.

[maxdrypower]

Ordinarily if you own a share in an aircraft , you do exactly that , own a share . Say you buy an aircraft for 20 grand and have four members , each puts in 5 grand . You then pay a monthly fee normally , like s lush fund , for parking maintenance cleaning etc etc then you fly at a vastly reduced rate .
If you wish to getout of the group you then have to sell your share for 5 grand .
No equity means you do not own a share in the aircraft . You pay an inflated monthly fee and a reduced hourly rate . This will not ordinarliy be in line with that of an equity share .
My rate is 110 per month and 65 per hour and for that I get the use of two cessna 172 and two PA28's two based at Barton and two at Blackpool .
Each group will differ slightly on type of aircraft number of members and fees , but all will be considerably cheaper than hour building by hiring your club hack .edited as I posted at same time as coodem.
We require six months notice within our group .

[mattia_70]

Thank you for the explanations.
Just to better understand the mechanism of no equity group.
The win-win situation means that on one side one does not have to pay for the share of the aircraft and on the other side, the group gets some money from the higher monthly fee and hourly rate of the members who do not own shares.

Is that correct?

[maxdrypower]

yeh , but depends if it is profit making or not

[mattia_70]

If it is not profit making, then it is not a win-win situation for the equity group but it is only for the no equity member.

Let's say I pay 100 £/month + 70 £/hour as a no equity member but the actual hourly rate to cover the live cost of the Aircraft is 60 £, then 100 £/month + 10£/hour should be used by the equity group to lower their monthly fee and hourly cost, or whatever they want (fund to replace engine, profit, etc.)

What's the difference between profit and non profit then? is it just the legal form of the group?

[maxdrypower]

Does it matter ?????
If four people want to get together and get shares in an aircraft and fly cheaply why do they need to make a profit , they have an aircraft and cheap flying , win/win

[mattia_70]

Don't get me wrong. I was just trying to understand better but the info you provided are clear enough and I agree that it is a good way of getting together for flying cheaply.

Cheers

[maxdrypower]

Give aircraftgrouping.com a shout and speak to the head man he will tell you everything , or failing that contact the chappie in this thread who is also in a group that is probably closer to you .
If you want cheap hour building in this country that the way forward

[coodem]

non equity = 1 person takses the risk, if everything runs well, he might make a little money, or get free flying. But if it goes wrong he/she will loose money.

As a member you might pay a little premium, but for me it's still less than half the price of a club aircraft.

As a non equity you don't have anything to lose, If the price is right, go for it

[nick14]

would suggest you do some instrument flying as it can make the IR/Instrument phase soo much easier.

joining a group sounds interesting.

Anyone have any ideas wether there are any RV6's for shares in the oxford area?

Nick