UK Armed Forces At Crisis Point

[Roland Pulfrew]

Armed Forces 'at crisis point in resources'

By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:16am GMT 26/03/2008

Britain is at risk of losing the capability to wage major wars as it reaches a crisis point in resources, senior academics have warned MPs.

The stress of constant operations was also leading to a "massive increase" in marital breakdowns with many troops forced into resigning from the services to save their relationships, the Commons defence committee heard.

During a hearing on the recruitment and retention crises facing the Armed Forces, the committee was told by Prof Hew Strachan, Oxford University's leading military historian, that Britain had now reached the point at which it had to make a serious choice about its future.
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Either it had "an adequately resourced" Armed Forces that could fight major wars, or one that could only conduct counter-insurgency and peace-keeping operations.

Given the "nature of current operations" in Iraq and Afghanistan and the "size of resources", it would be impossible to fight a major war, he said.

Until Britain answered the question of what size and type of Armed Forces it wanted, recruiting and retaining troops was "operating in a vacuum".

The MPs also heard that the troop numbers on operations were unlikely to reduce for at least four years as the next American president was unlikely to abandon Iraq.


Oh Dear. From today's Telegraph. What hope for some respite under this govt?

[Lord Loverocket]

These studies are far too common and never taken into consideration. Its going to take a serious breakdown to get this Govt to take notice.

Untill then we will have to do what we do best, make do with what we have and get on with it.

[Jig Peter]

For many years I have had the feeling that BritGovs have in fact quietly decided they can't ever, ever fight another major (or even minor) war ... because such things are too expensive.
Unable to face the noise there would be if this inner conviction became public property, they've reduced capabilities until, except for brilliant improvisation such as in the Falklands campaigns (keeps morale and the "British Empire" idea going ...), there's no real capability left. At least not what Clausewitz and predecessors would recognise as being able to back up diplomatic activity.
Think Duncan Sandys and 1975, TSR2 and onwards ... and weep ...:ugh:

[Wyler]

The decision has already been made.

Brown has no appetitie for war of any kind. He has handed back the vote to Parliament for future conflicts knowing full well that the lefy wing Parliament (including the Tories) will not sanction another unpopular adventure. Just in case they do, however, best to make sure the Forces are in no state to mount such a campaign. If he could get out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow, he would but he cannot afford the fallout, especially in relations with the US.

He sees the global conflict as economic, with some justification. His battle fronts are in the financial markets and that is where he sees the need for victory. Let's face it, what is the point of having an all singing and dancing array of Forces if all the enemy has to do is turn off the gas and food supplies?

He will keep up just enough for counter terror and insurgency type operations. Not because he wants to keep us safe, but because he wants to keep us all just scared enough to swallow his ever increasing controls on our liberty. Also, if he keeps us frightened of terrorists on one hand and the climatic end of the world on the other, he can continue to milk us for taxes and tighter controls. In that respect he is no different from the mad Mullahs who use Islam as an instrument of mass control.

That is the price you pay for a bankrupt left wing state that insists on controlling everything and is actually terrified of true democracy. Personally, I think the pendulum has swung far too much to the left and I doubt if there is any way back.

[Wyler]

The decision has already been made.

Brown has no appetitie for war of any kind. He has handed back the vote to Parliament for future conflicts knowing full well that the left wing Parliament (including the Tories) will not sanction another unpopular adventure. Just in case they do, however, best to make sure the Forces are in no state to mount such a campaign. If he could get out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow he would but he cannot afford the fallout, especially in relations with the US.

He sees the global conflict as economic, with some justification. His battle fronts are in the financial markets and that is where he sees the need for victory. Let's face it, what is the point of having an all singing and dancing array of Forces if all the enemy has to do is turn off the gas and food supplies?

He will keep up just enough for counter terror and insurgency type operations. Not because he wants to keep us safe, but because he wants to keep us all just scared enough to swallow his ever increasing controls on our liberty. Also, if he keeps us frightened of terrorists on one hand and the climatic end of the world on the other, he can continue to milk us for taxes and tighter controls. In that respect he is no different from the mad Mullahs who use Islam as an instrument of mass control.

That is the price you pay for a bankrupt left wing state that insists on controlling everything and is actually terrified of true democracy. Personally, I think the pendulum has swung far too much to the left and I doubt if there is any way back.

[L J R]

........zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Beatriz Fontana]

You're right there, Wyler :D

[Chugalug2]

Wyler, your resume of Nu Labour (or NuCon, I suspect) is spot on. A lifetime of opposing every move to defend this country, once the PC approved menace of the Nazis was disposed of, does not vanish when faced with the responsibility of government. Rather like cutting up the TSR2 jigs the purpose would appear to be to make the Armed Forces unfit for any purpose, other than to be a last ditch defence of the homeland. Thus the peoples taxes can be spent on the people (well some of the people) instead. Now where is that likely to end up? What's that? Bread and Circuses? Splendid, great idea! God help this poor country.

[pr00ne]

Chugalug2 and Wyler,

That argument holds water until you look at the defence spending record of the last Tory Government and this current Labour one, then I am afraid it dissolves into the purile ill informed pile of political propaganda it actually is.

Go back further into history and look at the 60's, 70's and 80's and your argument looks even weaker.

With the current world situation and the financial environment we exist in, the fact that this Labour Government is spending £33.8 Billion on defence plus treasury votes to fund Iraq and Afghanistan (not enough though!) I am afraid your argument looks a little silly.

[Widger]

My wife told me yesterday that our old car is broken and is in need of replacement, the Telly is an old CRT type and we really need a new LCD to take the high definition signal from the cable. The toaster is faulty and needs replacing. I told her that we don't have any money, we have a huge mortgage and big loans and she will have to cut back on clothes, booze and food. She asked how could I be so callous, it was very important for her and the kids to be kept in a nice house and anyway, the rest of the street thinks I am a skinflint and don't care a jot about my family otherwise, why would we live in a house with a leaky roof.

The fact is that we are skint, I have tried to keep most of the problems quiet but I am having to pay for an illegitimate child, born out of wedlock to a lovely middle eastern girl I met. It is costing me a fortune. She is demanding all this stuff but something has to give. I cannot borrow any more money, fuel and food costs are up. What should I do?

[Chugalug2]

Fraternal greetings pr00ne. I am no apologist for any party, particularly Mr Cameron's 'lovely boys' (and girls). There is a great deal in what you say of the continual cutting away at Defence over the years. Where my hackles start to rise, and they are in a continual state of rising these days, is Gordo's continual chanting of the sums of our money being expended on Health, Education, Defence etc. Surely the point is not what is spent but how it is spent. We are about to get a major programme scrapped. MRA4, CVAs, Dave, whatever, to once again cap runaway expenditure. So all the money spent to date on that/those programmes will be wasted. Billions gone and nothing to show for it. The same goes for the NHS and schools. Ever more money, yet we have hospitals that should display a health warning at the main door, schools that turn out ever higher numbers and grades of GCSEs to kids that seem to have less and less basic skills like adding and spelling. The size of the forces should be determined by the government to reflect the tasks to be placed upon them. Likewise the scale and quality of their equipment should meet the same requirements. If you feel that any of those parameters have been met then Mr Browne would appreciate having your vox pop on a video he is making because he won't want my contribution.

[Widger]

1.4G...trouble is..the bank just robbed me...N*rth@rn R@ck I think it was called.

[noregrets]

Traditionally the Forces have always done better under Labour...

...Although of course I'm referring to old-fashioned, socialist Labour, not this grasping half-witted bunch of Nazis. :mad:

[D O Guerrero]

These kind of reports seems to keep appearing - does there come a point where the government actually wake up and realise that they are bankrupting one of the only decent things left in this country?
The Armed Forces are on the verge of becoming "unfit for purpose" to coin a cliche.