Military Aircrew Threads

[SRENNAPS]

I know that this is not associated with flying or aviation but with the recent barrage (last couple of years) of insults written by people posting on this forum, I was wondering what “Military Aircrew – PPruNers” really hate and why?

A few thoughts:

Ex - serving members daring to post on the site.
The BBC or Daily Mail getting some facts wrong
Wannaby young lads/lasses asking reasonable questions
The Government
The RAF
Movers
The Army/Navy
Civilians
Glenn
Fat Gits
Racing Snakes
Americans
Speed Cameras
Adminners
JPA
CCS and the fitness test
Gramma
Spelling
Females with double chins
Somebody posting rumours (particularly before the facts)
U tube videos
Repeated threads (Marshalling was a classic)
The originator of PPruNe daring to have a go at its members
Crappy threads like this.

P. S. Moderators; if you wish to delete this thread I will not be insulted.......I am just trying to make a point.

[BEagle]

Well, basically any drivel written by samuraipratt, tourist or AIDU.....

Otherwise it's pretty good.

[snakepit]

BEagle

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Tourist]

Sanctimonious threads by old gits like Bugle......

[samuraimatt]

Posts: 13,351

Says it all really beagle.

[C130 Techie]

Well, basically any drivel written by samuraipratt, tourist or AIDU.....

Otherwise it's pretty good.

As I no longer see posts written by the main contenders, I'm with you on this one BEagle

[rudekid]

SRENNAPS

Excellent list, I agree with all but a few.

It's not about ex-serving members posting, it's the on occasion sanctimonious rubbish that comes with the 'it was much better in my day' types. They're not all like that and I post some sanctimonious crap myself, but it really sticks in the throat when the retired tell you with conviction what the current RAF problems are. Rant over...:\ And just to clarify, if you've been out since pre-TELIC I mean you!

And another one for my list:

The Red Arrows, well at least until we stop war-fighting.

And I was kind of agreeing with snakepit until I saw the smilies!:}

[Whirlygig]

Well ...as a female with a double chin, I am deeply hurt that no-one on here loves me :{

Cheers

Whirls


Just make sure you're a right babe-magnet eh SRENNAPS ??? :ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Sanctimonious threads by old gits like Bugle......


Fourteen minutes! reactions slowing?

[14greens]

nothing wrong with the odd double chin

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Double chin = bigger aiming point :E

From the original list point 1 is exactly where it should be and there two main protagonists, one already mentioned and the other who starts and contributes to so many threads in his quest to reach his 1000 post in a year target it would be laughable if it was not so sad :(

[jayteeto]

It's quite difficult biting your tongue if you are ex-serving. You see the same mistakesfrom your time being made over and over again. :ugh:

[Dan D'air]

AIDU where are you?? There have only been 2 out of 3 cr@p retorts to Beagles post.

[diginagain]

Perhaps, in an ironic gesture, he's put BEagle on his ignore list.

[BEagle]

I'm heartened to note that air engineers' standards remain 'traditional'!

A kill is a kill, after all.....:eek:

[kokpit]

nothing wrong with the odd double chin

Isn't that an oxymoron?.............

Could always add Troggs to the list ;)

[Echo 5]

Nice to see Movers in the top ten. ;)

[bayete]

Don't forget that those that have left may still have significant other reasons for checking in every now and then, eg family, friends involved in the military or they may still give some of their spare time to the military, ATC, AEF or reserves.
I have seen that some who have left have also been able to pass on valuable information to those who are leaving or those considering it. I'm talking about licencing issues, logbooks, cvs etc. Certainly helped me when I was on my way out. There is a lot of good experience that has left the mil, in this day and age can those that are still in afford to exclude the opportunity of perhaps still benefitting from some of it? If you don't like someones attitude or ideas file them on the pending tray;).
I agree that you should be careful about always thinking about WIWO... or WIWI..., things have changed and will continue to change, but many of us still have a very good idea as to what it is currently like in the mil.

[Pontius Navigator]

Fitness Test

Barrier Up barrier down

spotters

[The Old Fat One]

SRENNAPS


P. S. Moderators; if you wish to delete this thread I will not be insulted.......I am just trying to make a point.


I fear your point may have been missed by a few of the respondents...but I guess that is no great surprise.

[samuraimatt]

seldom

and the other who starts and contributes to so many threads in his quest to reach his 1000 post in a year target it would be laughable if it was not so sad :(

Beagle Total Posts: 13,356 (4.15 posts per day)



Al R


Total Posts: 861 (3.58 posts per day)



By my reckoning seldom, by the time Al reaches Beagles post total he will be on a daily post rate of about 45 and will get there in about 5 years.:eek:

Now that is some going. At least Beagle is Aircrew and as such has something worthwhile to contribute.



Ooh has anybody mentioned ships and the blasted Vulcan?

[Flt Lt Mac]

Well, basically

Good "Basically" there Beagle.;)

[Shack37]

From samaraidumatt

"Now that is some going. At least Beagle is Aircrew and as such has something worthwhile to contribute."

Who the fcuk are you to classify posts by non aircrew as not worthwhile contributions? Your own are hardly earthshattering.

Are you aircrew, are you serving.........or even ex serving or just a lurking wannabee who cannabee?

[Whirlygig]

Samuraimatt seems to have a fascination with "who people are" and what they do.

"Who are you?" is a very common question asked by him and depending on the answer, will treat said person with perceived deference or not.

From what I can gather, Samuraimatt is very young and only recently joined the RAF as a mover. As such I think we all need to provide him our names, ranks and serial numbers in order for him to ascertain whether a particularly poster is of a higher rank.

Cheers

Whirls

[boswell bear]

You missed Air Cadets and VGS off the list. :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Shack, thanks for that. It satisifes any stupid urge I have to see whether PamuaPratt has added anything while. Now I can just lie down until the urge passes :)

[Flt Lt Mac]

Repeated threads (Marshalling was a classic) LFA 7 Photo threads.

[Echo 5]

Posted by samuraipratt on 23rd July 2006:

I am thinking of joing the RAF as a Movements operator amongst other things and I am looking at what I could do when I leave. Nothing like planning ahead



Posted by Whirlygig today:

From what I can gather, Samuraimatt is very young and only recently joined the RAF as a mover.

Whirls.....Whatever he is, he is not a Mover, he is no way smart enough. It has been suggested by a good chum of mine that he may be a Loadmaster at the secret Wiltshire air base but even Loadmasters have minimum standards.

I can tell you for sure that samuraipratt is one or all of the following:

A Walt
A Troll
A Wannabe
A total Arrse

Can anyone think of anything that I may have missed.

I suppose I may now be reprimanded by the Mods for a personal attack on a fellow PPruner but I guess I'll just have to live with that. :=

[Riskman]

Repeated threads (Marshalling was a classic)There are a 228 threads on this forum so some duplication is surely inevitable

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

What ever guise he posts in he is way to smart for most us on here, his ability to "hook" all and sundry is a true gift which those that berate are simply envious off................and post 21 of this thread is such an insight :D

[minigundiplomat]

What ever guise he posts in he is way to smart for most us on here, his ability to "hook" all and sundry is a true gift which those that berate are simply envious off................


Surely that should be 'of'?. And without doing ISS. Well done me!

[Agent Smelly]

Ooh has anybody mentioned ships and the blasted Vulcan?

Nope but will the Victor do?

I was wondering what “Military Aircrew – PPruNers” really hate and why?

1. How about ex-Victor pilots who almost killed their crew when they crashed their plane due to complete and utter incompetence and now pretend it never happened.

2. Ex-mil pilots who brown nose their management and backstab their newfound civvy colleagues.

3. Biz Jet pilots who post using their real name under the assumption that it makes them holier than the rest of the plebs.

4. Posters who whinge about posts like these.

[Dan D'air]

Smells,

You can't be a real pilot, you didn't put beer and flying on your PP:O

[Agent Smelly]

You can't be a real pilot, you didn't put beer and flying on your PP

Don't mention "beer" and "Victor crash" in the same sentence. There was a keg of beer that mysteriously disappeared off the crash site.

[Dan D'air]

There was a keg of beer that mysteriously disappeared off the crash site.

Bizarrely enough, there was a thread pertaining to the Victor crash that mysteriously disappeared off this forum.

[parabellum]

What has happened to "Always Broken In Wilts" these days? Used to such a regular poster and usually good for a laugh.

[Al R]

Agent Smelly,

Your post is malicious and wretched and posted with a reckless disregard for the truth. Your defences in publishing against this non public figure are minimal to the point of non existant. That though, would be an issue for the plaintiff in this case, and if it were me that your nasty attack was aimed at, then I would certainly drag you through the courts for it. It is a missinformed and unjustified attack on the reputation of another party. It would unquestionably injure him in respect to his position within his company, his standing, his profession and by allowing it to continue, the company which publishes this messageboard is also exposing itself to civil action (although my brain might now be a little rusty on this aspect of publishing and the law so I am willing to be corrected).

It is my understanding that the person in question no longer posts here, but in the event that your post dissapears, I have grabbed a screenshot if it and if he wishes to use it in any legal action, then he is more than welcome to it. I am also happy to put my name to a statement which affirms its impact on me and which might assist him. You make an allegation with regards to the other party publishing under his real name. At least he has the courage and sense of integrity to do so.

To the board owners;

Unless you stamp down hard on this type of post and poster and the trolling that seems to stifle your bandwidth at the moment (and are seen to being doing it), then your business is going to suffer. No pro likes to see a.n other from within the same ranks abused like this and with such impunity too. It shatters user confidence and it smashes the credibility of your brand. Do you want to be THE place to go for informed iceberg insight, or do you want to be somewhere that will become known simply for mud slinging on a grand scale, which is eventually going to continue to affect traffic anyway?

I am guilty of diluting the ethos of this board simply by not being aircrew and that is just one of the reasons why I don't post as much (yes, even with a post count as prolific as mine, it has dropped!). But the reason I do like hanging around is that the comment can be barbed (but stylish and subtle), erudite and amusing, and many of the characters I did get along with in my career were aircrew and other failed Rocks anyway. I accept that this place needs have less of the likes of me in general in order to prosper.. so perhaps you need to start a non aircrew military section?

Cheers.

[Lima Juliet]

Echo 5

A Walt
A Troll
A Wannabe
A total Arrse

Aren't they prerequisites for Mover selection?;)

LJ

[Stitchbitch]

Al R, have you swallowed a legal dictionary? :E I think a non-aircrew military board would be good (imagine, you might see threads like 'pictures of a/c towing tractors from the old boston road', or 'payd sucks'), however you'd probably find the lords of the air would creep in every now and again to find out how the airfarce realy works...:}

[Lima Juliet]

Ah, the Old Boston Road...I remember when...

Non-aircrew forum is e-goat, is it not?

LJ

[Flying Lawyer]

Al R I am willing to be corrected
Fair enough. :ok:

With all due respect, your post is a mixture of misinformed and uninformed tosh.


Cheers.

[Silly Billy]

Ah, the Old Boston Road...I remember when...

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1e6196b339.jpg

So, come on, what's gotten up AI R's caboose?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

AlR,

"so perhaps you need to start a non aircrew military and civilian section?"...........take a look at this section which may well be more appropriate for you

http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61

[Al R]

Flying Lawyer said
Fair enough. :ok:

With all due respect, your post is a mixture of misinformed and uninformed tosh.

Cheers.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=3997082)

Fair enough :ok:!

Most of the legal briefings I used to have to attend wrt libel were a couple of years ago now, and given the nature of the thread, I had better not comment on the ability of the person or of the firm delivering them. But if you'd like to update/correct me, then your post might be even more useful, and I'd appreciate it. Are you suggesting that posts like that ARE permissable and exempt from libel?

Cheers.

[diginagain]

Nice piccy, Silly Billy. I wonder if you could tell me the make of the camera you used, as I'm thinking of taking up a new hobby of standing around on street corners in the Boston area waiting for anything interesting to happen.

Oh, and could you tell me which one is BEagle, please?

[minigundiplomat]

Non-aircrew forum is e-goat, is it not?



It is indeed. However, as an aircrew mate, I think banishing non aircrew members from the site would allow us to take ourselves too seriously and the Kiwi's video and song would be more and more relevant.

Happy Easter Leon. Stay Safe Mate!

MGD

[Al R]

I think a non-aircrew military board would be good (imagine, you might see threads like 'pictures of a/c towing tractors from the old boston road', or 'payd sucks'), however you'd probably find the lords of the air would creep in every now and again to find out how the airfarce realy works...

Non-aircrew forum is e-goat, is it not?

This forum was probably one of the very first I guess and I take my hat off to the guy (‘Danny’?) who had the energy and drive to get it going and to keep it going. I don't mean any dissrespect to him.

A bloke I know, once had a TVR and he started a messageboard for his other TVR mates in the mid/late 1990s. But it attracted people who had Jags, and MGs and Toyotas too, who wanted to talk about cars.. so he catered for them as well. And one day, they decided that they had more than just cars in common and they started talking about politics, relationships, flying, sailing, hobbies and holidays (sounds a bit gay, thinking about it :ooh:) just as anyone might want to do in any bar or crewroom.

So he catered for them too. Last year, the website (pistonheads) was fought for by the 2 biggest magazine publishers in the UK at the time, and one of them eventually paid (imho) a whopper for it. But there remains the common thread there: cars. And whatever you drive, whatever your budget, whatever your ability.. respect isn’t asked for, but it is always given when cars are discussed, or when people express an interest.

I wasn’t advocating change, just commenting on it. But change happens (who would have thought that a small Finnish company called Nokia would ever diversify from making paper or that a supermarket would ever sell petrol?) and I’m not suggesting that what happens there, happens here - you can’t compare apples with pears. I would not presume to argue the point either way here, but I have made many good friends in PPrune (some I have been lucky enough to meet, some to talk to, and some to PM with) and I would see no benefit to going over to somewhere like E-goat (no disrespect to it) to gauge the opinions of people who I don’t know.

[Whirlygig]

Al R, there are many different forums on Pprune so I reckon that Danny has pretty much catered for everyone (just like Pistonheads did).

Cheers

Whirls

[Silly Billy]

Nice piccy, Silly Billy. I wonder if you could tell me the make of the camera you used, as I'm thinking of taking up a new hobby of standing around on street corners in the Boston area waiting for anything interesting to happen.

I had to have a seance but managed to contact my Grandpa's half brother, Wilfred.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/6d30a080c5.jpg

He told me to tell you that the camera used was the Blair Camera Co., Boston, Hawk-Eye Detective Camera (first version), 1890-1893

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/fdfb77a9c2.jpg

He did ask me so try and find out what bug it is that AI R has got about Special Agent Smelly. He said that there was a hint of scandal that would be worth while pursuing. Mind you, my great uncle Wilfred did have a thing about scandals. He was fascinated with these new fangled Crocs.

[Stitchbitch]

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

Nuff said.:ok:

[Flying Lawyer]

Al R

Since you asked, a very brief summary. (Of a general nature.)

Libel is the publication of false statement(s) damaging to reputation.
No, I am not suggesting that internet forums are exempt from the laws of libel - although the law relating to publication on the internet varies in jurisdictions around the world.

You described Agent Smelly’s post (32) as “posted with a reckless disregard for the truth.”
Do you have a comprehensive knowledge of RAF Victor ops at home and abroad? If not, what is your basis for your allegation?

“Your defences in publishing against this non public figure are minimal to the point of non existant.”
One of the three principal defences to a libel action is ‘justification.’
ie That the statements made were substantially true.

“It is a missinformed and unjustified attack on the reputation of another party.”
Was it misinformed and unjustified? ie Not true.

“It would unquestionably injure him in respect to his position within his company, his standing, his profession ……”
It would be libel only if untrue.

”I am also happy to put my name to a statement which affirms its impact on me and which might assist him.”
It’s impact upon you?
Do you really think it would assist anyone claiming damages for libel to call a witness to say he read the comments and dismissed them as malicious, wretched, misinformed and untrue?


.

[EOSM37]

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

Nuff said.:ok:


But what it doesn't say is

EX - Military Aircrew A forum for the EX-professionals who now don't fly the non-civilian hardware, and the ex-backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would have left the ground. EX- Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

You see the difference?

So maybe the owners of PPRuNe could introduce an Ex-Military forum. Just a thought.

[Whirlygig]

Here's another thought - why don't the owners of Pprune introduce a forum for military non-aircrew, ex-military aircrew, ex-military non-aircrew, wannabe military, a forum for spouses of military personnel, friends and family of military, an RAF forum, a Navy forum and an Army forum. What about separating them out into various nations. While we're about it, I'm sure there are marginalised members so we could have a female military (and ex- and non-aircrew) forum, one for ethnic minorities etc.

That way, we could all stay in our own little worlds and never mix with people whom we would not otherwise have contact. Obviously only those people in each sub-forum have valid opinions and knowledge so therefore we would all know instantly that that person is to be respected and believed because they are a member or our own forum.

The little strapline above written by the forum title is a guideline to the sorts of threads and issues being discussed. It is not set in stone, it is not a requirement. The operative word surely, is "welcome".

Cheers

Whirls

[1.4G]

Which one of those do you fit into Whirls? Do you feel marginalised because you are obviously Ex Military? The Airlines have their own closed threads, who about the Military?

[Whirlygig]

I'm not ex-Military so I've no idea why you say that's obvious. I just think it's a richer world when people from different backgrounds and lives can mix.

I'm not sure that I understand why any one group of people should want a forum that is specifically for their own group to the exclusion of all others. if you don't like what someone has posted, then you can either explain why you disagree or you can put that person on your ignore list.

As I pointed out to someone in response to a PM, there was/is a faction of airline pilots who want a forum purely restricted to professional airline pilots only as they don't want to read the drivel posted by anyone who is not a professional airline pilots. Obviously only professional airline pilots speak sense and everyone else speaks bolleaux! In response to this Danny set up a spoof forum in Rumours & News. A lot of these pilots thought it was genuine and failed to see the joke!

Cheers

Whirls

[1.4G]

Whirls, if you look at the type of thread started in the Military forum, Save the Vulcan, Look at my photos, I hate the Government, sign this petition and that petition, look at this funny you tube clip, have you all read my latest book, I have a wheezy chest and the RAF won't let me join, how do I become a Navigator, I am leaving today, lets all have a go at some civvy voicing his opinion, my squadron is disbanding, lets talk about the latest Royal Navy ship, I still hate Gordon Brown, why do the BBC get the pictures wrong in news reports etc etc the list just goes on.
My point is very few are actually started by currently serving Aircrew (or ground crew, mustn't forget them) so maybe a change of the title at the top is in order.

[L J R]

Those who reminisce about how good the TSR-2 is / was / could have been...

[BEagle]

Here's a suggestion:

LEAVE THINGS AS THEY ARE!

An 'aircrew only' forum would be rather stale and perhaps elitist. Apart from the idiot few who post on PPRuNE (generally well known), I'm sure that everyone values inputs from non-aircrew trades pretty highly.

We are all human (not sure about ORAC - by definition a computer...:p) and I confess to the odd spat with that mud Marine over on the West Coast, but I respect his contribution to hos country and to the forum.

This site is a bit of a virtual crewroom - but one in which everyone (even the odd 'When I was' old fart) is welcome.

FL, mon vieux, were your wearing your black cap last week? By the way, did you get my e-mail re. the LD?

BTW, Al R, I might need to seek counselling. Because I always found that the GDT/ODT/CCS (TLA) sessions at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome were always run in an extremely professional manner. The staff were always interesting chaps to talk to - and were clearly underemployed sending aircrew to the gas chamber, sorry, 'respirator test facility' every week!

What a wicked sense of humour they had too! The combopen with half a knitting needle sticking out of the end was a well-known ploy - but on one occasion, they did a wonderful spoof. During the lecture on 'masking up' one Cpl came in 'from stores' with a khaki-painted aerosol can suitably wrapped in a poly bag with an authentic-looking stores label which he handed to the instructor. Quite nonchantly, the instructor opened the bag and took the top off the aerosol. Then he pressed the tit and shouted "GAS, GAS, GAS!" and sprayed the room. Pandemonium ensued, some people had left their respirators outside and fell over eachother in the race to fetch them......

It was, of course, Pledge!

[Pontius Navigator]

Flying Lawyer,

Your post makes complete sense.

I would suggest however that Agent Smelly's post was not only unhelpful but also not necessarily completely true too.

The only incontrovertible fact is the Victor crashed. Everything else is speculation and opinion.

A*S* is sufficiently remote that he hopes the smelly stuff can't reach him but who knows?

[PPRuNe Towers]

1.4G sums it up perfectly. I explained our signal to noise ratio here ten days ago during the recent shreik fest by the formerly serving because their missives were being hived off to jetblast or the nostalgia forum.

Same goes on Rumours and News where posts inducing slumber amongst those with current airside passes are sent to other forums.

Rob

[muppetofthenorth]

My point is very few are actually started by currently serving Aircrew (or ground crew, mustn't forget them)

Do those threads prevent serving aircrew from posting?

[1.4G]

Do those threads prevent serving aircrew from posting?A lot of them are Nostalgia, Jet Blast and spotters corner threads and as PPRuNe Towers has already said there was and would be again a shriek fest if they were to be moved. Why would current serving aircrew want to discuss "MOD payouts to Civil servants" for instance?
If you look at e-goat, sorry PPRuNe Towers, they have got it right in the way their site is broken down into different sections and I agree this would probably not be possible here but surely if I wanted to look at endless photos of Tornados, Typhoon and Hercules flying through Wales I would go to spotters corner and look there.

Maybe a compromise would be to have more stickys. One for current affairs, one for photos, and one for military Nostalgia.

[Tourist]

Muppet.
No, but they certainlyput current aircrew off. You will hear many people in the crewroom saying" no, I don't tend to go on pprune anymore, it doesn't seem to be for actual mil aircrew anymore"

[Agent Smelly]

The only incontrovertible fact is the Victor crashed. Everything else is speculation and opinion.

Try asking his AEO at the time why he punched this CRM nightmare.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. It is his fantasising that has become all too real for him and that is how he gets others to defend him. He probably told you that the Victor was going to crash anyway and that it was his skill that saved the crews lives.

He prefers to slink away and allow some disillusioned, well meaning sucker take up the cudgels on his behalf, little knowing that all of it is true. The PNG legal system is not insurmountable but I somehow doubt he'd want it to get that far as he'd have to expose all the gory details.

We couldn't have all those skeletons tumbling out of his closet now, could we?

[Whirlygig]

But Pprune isn't for Military Aircrew. It's for a whole variety of people; some of whom may be military aircrew but others are private/GA flyers, instructors, professional airline pilots (for whom Pprune was originally started), all sorts.

As it's progressed, different fora have appeared to cater for different sections of the aviation community.

But it seems that some people rarely like to step outside the comfort zone of their own favoured forum and venture to Nostalgia, Spotters, Jet Blast. What does it matter? There are people who never leave Rumours & News; hence the irrelevant threads there; similarly some never leave Rotorheads or Private Flying.

Cheers

Whirls

[1.4G]

Try asking his AEO at the time why he punched this CRM nightmare.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. It is his fantasising that has become all too real for him and that is how he gets others to defend him. He probably told you that the Victor was going to crash anyway and that it was his skill that saved the crews lives.

He prefers to slink away and allow some disillusioned, well meaning sucker take up the cudgels on his behalf, little knowing that all of it is true. The PNG legal system is not insurmountable but I somehow doubt he'd want it to get that far as he'd have to expose all the gory details.

We couldn't have all those skeletons tumbling out of his closet now, could we?You see what I mean? How random is that?
Has anybody mentioned thread drift yet?

But Pprune isn't for Military Aircrew.

Here is a clue for you whirls.

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware

[Tourist]

So.
An aircraft crashed.
Nobody died.
It was a victor, so it was a long time ago, so it probably happened in black and white.
Woopdy do.
Sounds boring.
If someone has something to say about the crash, perhaps they should have grown a pair at the time of the investigation, rather than hinting in a wussy manner now that everbody involved has retired from the military?

[Whirlygig]

But Pprune isn't for Military Aircrew.
Here is a clue for you whirls.


Quote:
Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware


And here's a clue for you - Pprune is not for Military Aircrew. Pprune stands for Professional Pilots' Rumour Network and has a forum WITHIN it called Military Aircrew. There are other fora within Pprune as well.

Pprune does not equal Military Aircrew.

Cheers

Whirls

[1.4G]

Sorry Whirls but I think you are getting all steamed up over nothing. This section of PPRuNe is for the Military Aviators and Ground crew to start rumours of a military nature. I am not really sure what point you are trying to put over, but why do people get all upset when it is suggested that a thread is moved to a more suitable part of PPRuNe such as Nostalgia or Jet Blast.

[Conan The Barber]

So the good Agent decides to resurface from 1998 and grace us with his eloguence.

Supposedly a seasoned poster with a tally of 19 under his belt. Do a post search and count 1, 2, 3, 19? Registered in 2007, so apparently jumped into his H.G. Wells contraption to post 9 years earlier.

Think manipulation and who has the ability.

[Pontius Navigator]

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

He prefers to slink away and allow some disillusioned, well meaning sucker take up the cudgels on his behalf, little knowing that all of it is true.


Indeed.

However you are using unsupported emotive language without regard to the facts.

How do you know he is slinking? May be he is being prevented appearing. If you do a search for his posts from YESTERDAY you will find none. If you do a search for his posts from a WEEK AGO guess what. You find he was posting yesterday too. In other words there are some untoward features in the software that disappear and reappear people, apparently yourself included.

Then you suggest disillusioned again an emotive descriptor but disillusioned with what?

Back on thread ~ using another thread to troll on a different topic.

[Pontius Navigator]

1.4g

It is, very loosely, Military Aircrew Threads. Once again it is carrying a sub-level thread rather than an overt 'lets bring it in the open, hand bags at dawn' standup fight.

The iss ue is one where a thread started about the Victor crash. It degenerated and was pulled.

Another thread was hijacked and ran on two levels.

Now this thread has been similarly hijacked.

All the while the subject of the thread has had his access to pprune suspended. Make of it what you will but there may even be a third level of debate here that I haven't noticed either.

Lipstick skewed, handbags ready, seconds out. . . round 4 :(

[Jackonicko]

"I can tell you for sure that samuraipratt is one or all of the following:

A Walt
A Troll
A Wannabe
A total Arrse

Can anyone think of anything that I may have missed."

I can. Lots of things. Including the fact that Samuraitwat has sometimes given every appearance of being a stupid, poorly educated, incoherent and inarticulate f*ckwit. I'm sure he isn't, and that you've covered everything polite.

I am becoming puzzled by these regular veiled attacks on a fellow PPRuNer. After some disquiet was expressed about intemperate language on another thread, Danny issued a manful apology, and everyone seemed to have kissed and made up. And now a poster who hasn't been arsed to comment on anything for several years has attacked our Victor-flying chum three times within the space of a single day. I'll bet poor old Danny is smacking his forehead wondering what he has to do to make this go away!

I don't know much about libel (I'm only a print journo, why would that bother me?) but it would seem to me that Agent Smelly is bent on defaming someone who is, at the end of the day, just a fellow aviator.

Can't someone post the details of the Victor BoI/accident report so that we can judge for ourselves whether criticising a fellow pilot in this way is in any way justified (whether this was the mark of an incompetent as Agent S avers, or whether it was one of those unfortunate "it could happen to any of us" incidents).

There's a description from the air show organiser at the time of what he thought had happened at:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1088739

We all make mistakes. The lucky ones get away with them, and learn from them. Certainly we view other people's mistakes with some degree of understanding.

I do wonder whether some folk aren't using this accident to hit out at the bloke for whatever he's done to upset people by whingeing on about some obscure facet of PPRuNe funding or administration.

I would caution anybody about seeing some kind of conspiracy in this ("Think manipulation and who has the ability" YGBSM!). Danny has shown himself to be big enough to apologise and move on, and I fully expect that he, or one of the mods will be having a quiet word with Agent Smelly, and that they'll have the good sense to find out who he is, or at least whether he really is posting from Port Moresby, and that they'll reassure the doubters that he has nothing to do with the Mods and owners.

For my part, I need no such reassurance. Like Samurai, Agent Smelly's clearly just a
trouble-making Troll, and/or a total Arrse.

Pro's and amateurs alike, aren't most of us fellow aviators? Aren't we all comrades in aviation? Do we really need to run each other down and squabble ....

(Hmmm, having read my comments about Samuraitwat, perhaps it's inevitable.)

Hat, coat.... I know the drill!

[Al R]

I don't know what happened, and frankly, thats not the issue for me here. Even if the captain f#cked up beyond all belief, nothing justifies the cowardly and despicable attacks that are coming out of the woodwork. Almost killed? Do me a favour - the crew rolled the beer keg away (booze on military aircraft in detachment scandal!).

I hope that the board not only takes measures to correct matters and to sanction this poster, but more importantly, is being seen to being taking prompt and decisive measures to correct matters.

[SRENNAPS]

How about we drop the Victor story before this thread is deleted; there were quite a few other items on my list that could create good discussion/banter..............please..:(:(:)

[Pontius Navigator]

Srennaps, as I said it is about the 3rd hijack.

Maybe it will be a beer after all :)

[Pontius Navigator]

Jacko, thanks for that link. The story there mentions IFF being incorrectly tuned. It should, of course, have said ILS which in those days was not tunable and needed to be preset before flight. That was why the approach was made without approach aids.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Sorry, but the tangent that this thread has taken is not going to continue. Some seem hell bent on trying to divert it to matters already discussed. It is not worth the aggro it causes to raise them again.

[Flying Lawyer]

Al R

It seems that my explanation was a waste of time.

"I always assumed ‘justification’ to mean; ‘to show an action to be reasonable or necessary’."
In ordinary language, that’s correct.
In libel law, which is what you asked about, it has the meaning I explained.

No. If a statement is true (or substantially true), whether or not the maker acted reasonably is irrelevant.

No. If a statement is true (or substantially true), the motive of the maker is irrelevant.

“to cause injury and defame.”
Truth may cause injury to reputation. That does not make it defamatory.
See the very first line of my summary.

“and ‘almost killed’. How can that be quantified or qualified? 90% ‘almost killed’ or 10% not killed? Or did the ac safety systems perform well within their envelopes and limits? And did the crew debus from the wreck quite comfortably? If someone fired an RPG that missed me by 4 feet, is that ‘almost killed’? Of course it isn't. It would either kill me if it hit me, or not if it didn’t. It didn’t, so the issue is immaterial. You can't be half killed.. you're either killed or you're not.”
You’re being silly now.

“And finally, addressing Smelly’s last points and his promotion of hate amongst ‘PPruNers’, I wonder what his/her motivation really is? We’ll probably never find out.. such is the MO of this type of person.”
I'm not sure if you are referring to Agent Smelly or to the person to whom he referred in his post.
Either way, it doesn't matter. I've tried to explain libel law to you. Accept it or reject it as you wish.