CALSTAR orders Bell 429 and MD902

[chopper2004]

Any thoughts on CALSTAR California Shock Trauma ordering mixed bag of MD Explorers and Bell 429?

[heli1]

Yep...One will chop your head off with the low tail rotor and the other won't !

[chopper2004]

heli1

Very funny seriously in all seriousness would have thought that CALSTAR would go up to EC135 from BO105 not to MD902 like folks here in UK. Though in saying that half our EMS is with MD900/2 and some with EC135

[inputshaft]

chopper 2004
Without being overcritical of my former employer, I'd have to say that you're maybe being a little naive in assuming that aircraft performance and role suitability is all that drives a choice like this. In the case of the 902 purchase, I suspect it was a series of perceived "good deals", with the first used aircraft, then the second, then the new aircraft from MD, that drove this decision. By the way I haven't anything against the 902, I used to fly one of the airframes recently purchased by CALSTAR, I'm just pointing out that the economics of the moment tends to be the driving force with many small US companies.

[md 600 driver]

chopper 2004

isnt that what happened here in the uk most of our ams bo105 and 355went for 900/902 product ??

steve

[PANews]

Not quite true 600.... without getting my Abacus out for exact numbers it was around 60-40 and depended really on the choice of the contractor. PAS gave you 902 and Bond and the other option brought up Eurocopter [mainly 135].

The 429 may well change the scene [and pretty soon by all accounts].

[chopper2004]

MD 600 driver

I worked with the 105 in a past life and knew that my old company 's forte was in 105 full maintenance and support in the UK until rightly said by PANews that combo of 135 and 900/2 came in. Example one of our previous long term customers who went from 105 to 900 was the Humberside Constabularly i,e (Oscar 99).

Same with the 355, for example my local force Cambs went from 355 to 902 two years ago.

Though there are only 17 BO-105 on the UK CAA register at the moment mainly DBS-4/


Inputshaft,

Many thanks for that and I was running on logic not economics:O. As there was a progression from the Bell 222 to the Bell 429 in terms of Bell support and training so I gathered that with Eurocopter support or whoever provided the BO105 would be Eurocopter based so I figured (again throw my hands up) and say that 135 or 145 would be natural progression but then I should have looked at our UK situation and having being part of the 105 world for a few years saw that 900/902 has been a replacement for the 105 in areas of parapublic.:ok:

[md 600 driver]

any one got the breakdown [types] of cabs operated by the aa charitys

steve

[PANews]

This is out of my head so I bet I missed at least one!

Anglia 1 117
Anglia 2 117

Dorset & Somerset 135
Cornwall 135
Devon 135

Essex 135
Hertfordshire to be confirmed

County 1 135
County 2 135
County 3 135

Scotland 1 135
Scotland 2 135
Scotland 3 135


North West 1 135
North West 2 tba [operational August?]

Thames Valley BO105 to be 135

Wales 1 BO105 up for new generation contract
Wales 2 BO105 up for new generation contract
Wales 3 BO105 up for new generation contract

Great North 1 365
Great North 2 900
Yorkshire 1 900
Yorkshire 2 900

Lincs & Notts 900

London 900

Sussex [Police] 900
Surrey 900
Kent 900
Wiltshire [Police] 900

Warks & Northants 109
Derby, Rutland 109

On top of that I understand there will be a new operation in the Bristol area but I have not had the 135 there confirmed yet.

Awful lot of 135s needed in a very short timescale bearing in mind that the police need 5 or 6 as well .....

[Thud_and_Blunder]

There may be more, but a quick glance at PA's list shows a couple of omissions:

N Devon - Bo 105
Hants/IoW - Bo 105

[molen]

Recently 3 MD900's have been noted operating with CALSTAR:

N222YN http://www.aeroboek.nl/900/00054.HTM

N902AM http://www.aeroboek.nl/900/00092.HTM

N902EX http://www.aeroboek.nl/900/00091.HTM

All pre-owned machines.

[Avnx EO]

With regards to having a mixed bag... I can understand that. I visited an EMS operator in west Texas about 2 years ago and they had 4 MD-902s and a BK-117. All the MDs were grounded awaiting parts. The BK was the only ship that was flightworthy. The MD was a nicer EMS ship. But nice doesn't help if it doesn't fly. They were primarily waiting for rotor system parts, but they said if the IIDS ever goes, they're really down for a long time because it takes forever to get a replacement. (Don't know if that problem resides with MD or my old employer - but not all company's have PSAs that build to inventory and custom avionics systems can easily have a 10 month lead time.)

With the 429, It'll be a damn fine EMS aircraft (I know the EMS nurse who drove the cabin design) and it will have Bell support. But it's a very popular ship and there's a long line up. I can see why Bell is clearing their factory of 430 and 427 to make room. I wonder where CALSTAR are in the line.

In any event, having multiple types keeps you from having all your eggs in one basket.

[Geoffersincornwall]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't all the UK MD ships '902's and not 900s?

[Bertie Thruster]

but they said if the IIDS ever goes, they're really down for a long time because it takes forever to get a replacement.

Not in my experience.......

Our 902 (a UK HEMS machine) went AOG for an IIDS on Thursday 21 Dec 2006. The very worst time!

A New IIDS was immediately shipped from USA, arriving Saturday morning, 23 Dec. (The Saturday of the Christmas holiday weekend!)

We were flying again that afternoon.

[PANews]

Technically they are all certified as 900s.

The old MDHI wanted them all called MD900's [hence my built in preference to refer to them as that over the years] but PAS were always [confusingly] marketing them as a McDonnell-Douglas MD902 [and McDonnell NEVER built or sold a 902!] but the new owners have now plumped for 902 and [when I think about it!] I now call them that.

[cptjim]

Message from MD helicopter:
Over the years, the helicopter community has started referring to the MD Explorer as either the MD 900 or the MD 902, depending on engine type. These designations were never really official, nor were they accurate. But because they were never corrected, they gained acceptance. Now, with the change to the 207E engine, MDHI hopes to avoid yet another informal "renaming" of the aircraft that will be both inaccurate and confusing. Journalists can help by always referring to the aircraft ? regardless of engine type ? as the MD Explorer. :8

[mfriskel]

The following page headers were taken from the MD RFMs. The certification paragraph was taken from the current configuration RFM. Basically the ship is a MD 900 that comes in two configurations. The baseline 900 is the original non CAT-A and 902 configuration which is the CAT-A configuration. To further expand, the original MD900 came with PW206A engines, there is an upgrade to make an original 900 have PW207E engines, this is still called a MD900. The 902 configurations have used 2 engines, the PW206E and the PW207E. If you want to make your MD900 into a 902 confuiguration, you would have to change several other systems as well as the engines- fuel system, fire suppression if your aircraft did not have that option, electrical system changes, take-off timer, ect...
Cheers
Mark


ROTORCRAFT FLIGHT MANUAL CSP−900RFM206A−1
MD900 with PW 206A

ROTORCRAFT FLIGHT MANUAL CSP−900RFM207E−1
MD900 with PW 207E

ROTORCRAFT FLIGHT MANUAL CSP−902RFM206E−1
MD900 (902 Configuration with PW 206E)

ROTORCRAFT FLIGHT MANUAL CSP−902RFM207E−1
MD900 (902 Configuration with PW 207E) General

1−9. ROTORCRAFT CERTIFICATION
Certified under FAR Part 27 through amendment 27−26 dated April 5, 1990, Special Condition for High Intensity Radiated Fields (HIRF) protection per FAR 21.16; FAR Part 36 Appendix J, Noise, effective on the date of Type Certification, and FAR Part 27 Appendix C Criteria for Category A effective August 8, 1996.
The rotorcraft is certified by the Federal Aviation Administration under FAA Type Certificate Number H19NM.
The FAA model designation is MD900
The FAA/ICAO aircraft type designator is HU90 ( this is now EXPL)
The MD Helicopters, Inc. commercial designation is MD Explorer